5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's not the point, they are often looking for money the only difference is time scale, i see little difference in someone wanting money by the hour and someone wanting money for a few years marriage. A friend of mine was paying his wife 100k a month and a big payoff at the divorce, but you keep on dreaming it's always a genuine relationship

I guess you don't realize there are millions of marriages on earth, many of which are comfortable together. Providing for a family is nothing like paying cash for sex. A marriage, whether it's a year or 50 years, is still a marriage, and it's only about money when there's a greedy woman attached. Millions of women are independent enough to want a man for him, and not his cash. You start out paying for a woman, that's how it will end. You treat a decent woman well, and the payback will be in your favor.

1 hour ago, novacova said:

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

In your situation - the way to find out is to invite her away for the weekend.

Why bother putting her in that situation? Just tell her “let’s go rest for a while “ then head on over to your place. Then you’ll both know.

In my opinion, inviting her straight back to your place can be a little too forward. Suggesting a night or weekend away is often a much softer approach, particularly if she's not a party girl or occupational farang hunter. It puts the ball firmly in her court and allows her to decide how comfortable she is with taking things further.

I've done this a few times in the past. After a few dinners etc, then Meet for Saturday lunch and, if things were going well, I'd casually say something along the lines of, "You know what? I'm tired of Bangkok and fancy a night away somewhere nearby"....

If the signals were positive, I'd tell her we'd swing by her place so she could pack a bag. Then, while we were on the way, I'd ask her to book a hotel. At that point, her choices told me everything I needed to know. Would she book two rooms or one? Twin beds or a double? Rather than making assumptions or applying pressure, I left the decision entirely in her hands.

Quite amusingly, back in the day I did this a handful of times, and on every occasion the room booked was a twin room. Message received loud and clear - a perfectly reasonable dose of caution, coupled with a desire to preserve at least the appearance of respectability, which tended to become less important once familiarity and comfort had been established.

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

In your situation - the way to find out is to invite her away for the weekend.

If she shows clear reluctance with excuse or ‘mai dai’ kind of responses - then you are friends.

If she shows interest & a positive reaction - she likes you.

If we are talking romance asking a girl away for the weekend is a big step - when there hasn't even been a kiss. Ask her to a movie .. a day trip .. asking someone away for the weekend is like saying to her face will you <deleted> me and be with me intimately for a few days .. it might speed things up but it is presumptuous and potentially rude .. especially given the age difference and risks that go with that ...

11 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's not the point, they are often looking for money the only difference is time scale, i see little difference in someone wanting money by the hour and someone wanting money for a few years marriage. A friend of mine was paying his wife 100k a month and a big payoff at the divorce, but you keep on dreaming it's always a genuine relationship

The tired old "you pay for it in the end" argument says far more about your outlook on women in Thailand than it does about the reality of relationships here.

I know plenty of men who are "paying quite a lot" - international school fees, family expenses, mortgages, holidays and everything else that comes with married life. That's not being taken advantage of; it's called having a family and sharing responsibilities.

Of course, there is another option. You can simply pay per-jump and keep everything entirely transactional. The question is not whether money changes hands - it does in one form or another in almost every relationship. The real question is how mercenary you want the arrangement to be.

Is she with you solely because of money or security? Or would she still be with you if she earned more than you?

I've had the answer to that question in every serious relationship I've been in. The attraction was mutual, the connection genuine, and financial status was largely irrelevant.

Perhaps the more revealing question is this: if every relationship you have encountered can be reduced to a financial transaction, what does that say about the women you are choosing - and the circles you are moving in?

15 pager coming up here

36 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

That's not the point, they are often looking for money the only difference is time scale, i see little difference in someone wanting money by the hour and someone wanting money for a few years marriage. A friend of mine was paying his wife 100k a month and a big payoff at the divorce, but you keep on dreaming it's always a genuine relationship

There is a big difference between paying an allowance and putting 100k into an account to cover monthly living expenses.

I suppose asking her parents for there permission

first is out of the question ! !

48 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

if every relationship you have encountered can be reduced to a financial transaction

None except those hour long relationships if you want to include those

29 minutes ago, Hummin said:

There is a big difference between paying an allowance and putting 100k into an account to cover monthly living expenses.

You don't have to justify your monthly spending on the mrs for us here

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You don't have to justify your monthly spending on the mrs for us here

Dunno 100k a month living expenses sounds a little high to me ...............

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You don't have to justify your monthly spending on the mrs for us here

I did not justify anything. I just pointed out the obvious.

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I sympathise with any woman that ever had sex with you.

I expect you don't have much experience of sex with women.

Probably arrived in Thailand as a 60yo virgin.

First, I am not 60yo yet! I fixed for my life so I could arrive here and live in the country since the age of 27. You, on the other hand probably had to wait until retirement from a long working life as an employee. Therefore, you came here a bit too old and alone, with a mindset that Thailand is a heaven for sexpats.

After that, why do you focus on sex so much as soon there is talk about relationship and Thai girls? It must be you that have a very limited knowledge and experience. Sounds on you like it surrounds the bar scene and girls connected to that kind of life. Most probable, you just can´t find any relation or contact with women outside that area.

And, as I came here at the age of 27, I have experienced that kind of lifestyle too. It was fun for a couple of years, but after that it just turns out to be same every time you go out.

In reality, I think it´s you we should sympathize with and maybe also feel a little bit sad for, as you are the one with very narrow and limited knowledge and experience. But you actually sound like a professional when it comes to bar girls. However, that´s most of the times the completely wrong place to look for a healthy relationship. I don´t say it´s impossible, but it usually comes with a too big bag to handle in a comfortable way.

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Treat ho's like ladies, treat ladies like Ho's.

The comment above, clearly shows your limitations regarding the subject. It also shows what kind of man you are. Very sad!

Edited June 3Jun 3 by Gottfrid

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

In your dreams i don't have experience, i have a good lawyer friend of 10 years, she's always buying me stuff, I don't need to pay her to be a friend unlike what's normal with you

What? What is normal with me? What are you assuming and accusing me for? Why would I need to pay for having friends? The sad thing is that you have such a morbid picture of women, at the same time you now post you have a friend/relation or whatever it might be with a female, assuming Thai, lawyer. Have you told her your views of the female sex?

26 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You don't have to justify your monthly spending on the mrs for us here

Nobody here justifies anything for you or anybody else. We just know that when you live as a family, there are things to pay.

Don´t be envious now, just because you never seen 100k baht in one month before. It can happen to you too. 🤣

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Dunno 100k a month living expenses sounds a little high to me ...............

It depends on what lifestyle you have and what you can afford. I´ve heard your limit was around 60k baht, right? Think you posted that long time ago, and British pensions stands still if you do it legal here. 🤣

15 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

I fixed for my life so I could arrive here and live in the country since the age of 27.

Usually a mistake coming to Thailand too young when you could earn far more money back home, Bangkok vs London no comparison, of course you're the exception you'll say

5 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

It depends on what lifestyle you have and what you can afford. I´ve heard your limit was around 60k baht, right? Think you posted that long time ago, and British pensions stands still if you do it legal here. 🤣

If you're giving a Thai woman 100kbht a month, you're probably not paying enough taxes.

Usually a good idea to do a TL;DR down the bottom on vast posts.

the girls have one thing in common, they have age 50 as the divider, if you are below 50, go for it

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

If you're giving a Thai woman 100kbht a month, you're probably not paying enough taxes.

You have to read a bit better and practice on your capabilities of understanding. Nobody was talking about giving a Thai woman 100k baht per month. Where did you understand or read that. 100k baht was transferred in for monthly expenses. That was what was talked about.

Besides that, people that have planned their lives should have no problem whatsoever with 100k baht per month wherever it goes. People that bring in enough money per month, can actually pay taxes and have far more over than your mind can ever imagine.

But I know, that´s just completely out of your league. Maybe that´s way you´re so bitter and chose women to focus on as your main point for your slur!

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

Usually a mistake coming to Thailand too young when you could earn far more money back home, Bangkok vs London no comparison, of course you're the exception you'll say

As you don´t know what I do, you can´t judge such thing. I work against Europe and US and charge after prices in Europe and US and live in Thailand. But, that went over your head. As I said, take a beer, find your women for the night and be happy.

6 hours ago, 123Stodg said:

Been thinking more lately about a newish female friendship that has developed. It’s been confusing me, and I might benefit from a reality check from others who’ve actually been around Thailand long enough to know what they’re talking about.

I’ve been in Chiang Mai for close to seven months now. Left Bangkok in mid November last year to work on a side income project I had been toying with for a while. I’ve begun manufacturing something up here in the north in small amounts and, if all goes well over the next two months, then I’ll begin exporting it to the US and parts of Europe. It’s something I’ve done before, have some experience with, and had good success with in the past. Other than the work up here, though, I’ve been keeping to myself mostly.

About three months ago I started going to the same little local cafe near Nimman, usually about four mornings a week. Average place, but they do decent coffee and some good Western style breakfasts. There’s a girl who works there behind the counter, mid 20s, not one of those obviously done up girls, just naturally pretty in a subtle way. Small, nice smile, looks athletic, also a bit northern Thai Chinese looking, good skin, the kind of girl you find yourself looking forward to seeing at the start of the day. We started exchanging the usual pleasantries, then longer conversations. After about two weeks she started remembering which things I like to order, which I know sounds like no big deal, but somehow it felt like something.

About six weeks in, she mentioned she was taking an online course in the evenings to improve her English and asked if I’d be willing to review some of her written assignments occasionally. Her English is pretty good already, so I said sure, thinking it would be a one off. It wasn’t. We’ve been meeting at a coffee shop around the corner from the cafe on most Thursday evenings for about a month and a half now. Just talking, going over her work, sometimes for two hours.

A few weeks ago things shifted a little. Nothing major, just grabbed a quick dinner after reviewing her work when, while sharing a beer, it started feeling like possibly a bit more than just a friendship to me. Then another dinner like that the next week. She’s easy to be around. No performance, no agenda that I can detect, just genuinely friendly company. She also grabbed my hand the last time while walking back to where she parks her motorbike and then gave me a gentle hug. That’s as far as it’s gone physically, but I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t started wondering about the possibility of something more. And up until recently I’d assumed I would leave Chiang Mai in a few months once the business project is sorted, but now I’m not quite as certain about leaving so soon because I’m enjoying this new situation.

The age gap is significant, though. I’m very aware of that. She’s never brought it up and neither have I, but it’s obviously sitting there. And frankly, I’m not entirely sure what she sees in this. Maybe I’m the one projecting something onto it. Wouldn’t be the first time a man my age in Thailand convinced himself something was there with a much younger woman when really he was just being useful to someone.

But then she does things that don’t fit that explanation either. A couple of weeks ago, while we were going over something she’d written, she leaned across the table to point at something on my laptop. Her face got really close to mine, close enough that I was very aware of her, and I could smell some light perfume on her for the first time. She didn’t seem to notice what I was sensing, or if she was, she gave nothing away.

Last week she said something that’s also been stuck in my head. We were talking about nothing in particular and she said, “I like that you talk to me like my opinion matters.” Just said it casually. But it gave me a positive impression of her.

But the longer I’ve lived in Thailand, the less confident I’ve become about reading situations with Thai girls like this.

Back home, people tend to be more direct. Here, patience, politeness, and consideration seem woven into everyday life in ways that can be difficult to interpret if you’re not careful. Sometimes what looks like interest is just kindness. Sometimes what looks like kindness is something more.

Maybe that’s why I’ve found myself thinking about it more than I probably should. Just when I think I’ve got it figured out, I find myself questioning it all again.

how do you expect proper advise without providing a photo for evidence

If she's a traditional 'good girl', it's not the age difference but wanting to jump into the sack (if that's the next level). At 20, she may still be a virgin.

Our age difference is 16 years and it did take a while to sort out culture and opinions (ongoing!). Took four months of romancing before she got the hint. Married 35 years. Parents could see I was a good guy; they love me and I them. First visit, they covered the windows with newpaper so neighbours wouldn't think she was a hooker. We lived with them a few months before we bought our own house.

Ask if she likes dancing. Is there a Thai dance palace in C-M? That's a good way to get, ya know, closer. Mine had never even held hands with a boy at 23.

Go slow. It's worth it. You can get nookie anywhere.

4 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

If we are talking romance asking a girl away for the weekend is a big step - when there hasn't even been a kiss. Ask her to a movie .. a day trip .. asking someone away for the weekend is like saying to her face will you <deleted> me and be with me intimately for a few days .. it might speed things up but it is presumptuous and potentially rude .. especially given the age difference and risks that go with that ...

That's a valid point - it is a significant step. Equally, after spending a considerable amount of time together, taking that step may be necessary if the relationship is ever going to progress beyond the "just friends" stage.

Your point about going to the cinema is a good one. A trip to the cinema carries a much stronger dating signal than repeatedly meeting for coffee. It is not something platonic friends typically do on a regular basis, and it naturally creates a more date-like atmosphere. Whether intentional or not, it sends a clearer message about interest and intent and the response again, can be observed.

Ultimately, context matters. If you've already progressed beyond casual coffee meet-ups and are regularly having dinner together, spending evenings together, and investing time in each other's company, then suggesting the cinema feels like a perfectly natural next step rather than a dramatic escalation.

At some point, relationships need a moment that moves them out of the comfortable ambiguity of friendship. Otherwise, months can pass with both people enjoying each other's company while neither is entirely sure where they stand.

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

4 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

I fixed for my life so I could arrive here and live in the country since the age of 27.

Usually a mistake coming to Thailand too young when you could earn far more money back home, Bangkok vs London no comparison, of course you're the exception you'll say

Not necessarily. Many people choose to live in Thailand because it can be financially advantageous while still allowing them to earn a strong income.

Beyond remote workers and those in rotational industries such as oil and gas or shipping, this includes expatriate executives, international school staff, regional managers, consultants, tech contractors, entrepreneurs, traders, and professionals working for multinational companies across Asia.

In many cases, they earn salaries comparable to, or higher than, those available in London while benefiting from significantly lower living costs and, sometimes, lower tax exposure. As a result, they can often achieve a higher disposable income and standard of living than they would in the UK.

As such, your "usual generalisation" is flawed because it appears to be based on a relatively narrow set of experiences that you're then extrapolating to a much broader and more diverse population. The foreign population in Thailand includes everyone from retirees and backpackers to senior executives, entrepreneurs, highly skilled professionals, and business owners.

Assuming a single motivation or financial profile for such a diverse group only serves to offer a dumbed down, over simplified and fundamentally flawed conclusion.

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

That's a valid point - it is a significant step. Equally, after spending a considerable amount of time together, taking that step may be necessary if the relationship is ever going to progress beyond the "just friends" stage.

Your point about going to the cinema is a good one. A trip to the cinema carries a much stronger dating signal than repeatedly meeting for coffee. It is not something platonic friends typically do on a regular basis, and it naturally creates a more date-like atmosphere. Whether intentional or not, it sends a clearer message about interest and intent and the response again, can be observed.

Ultimately, context matters. If you've already progressed beyond casual coffee meet-ups and are regularly having dinner together, spending evenings together, and investing time in each other's company, then suggesting the cinema feels like a perfectly natural next step rather than a dramatic escalation.

At some point, relationships need a moment that moves them out of the comfortable ambiguity of friendship. Otherwise, months can pass with both people enjoying each other's company while neither is entirely sure where they stand.

I get where you are coming from - had they met on a dating website and had a couple of meals it could be a reasonable step. There are signs of potential interest but it is like the old joke where the shop girl smiles at the 65 year old and he thinks 'I've still got it' and she thinks 'He's so nice. Reminds me of grandpa'. Thailand can be different but I think some here overestimate that.

It is a good step for them to have gone out but, in one way, it is a bad sign that after knowing her for a while, and a couple of meals, the best that has happened is some very mild flirtation on her part. She is no doubt appreciative of the english help which may be important to her but that's all.

But if he feels it is a thing, as you say it is good to push it along somehow - you don't want to be that guy who six months later is Mr Nice guy, who has spent up on meals and maybe gifts and still be nowhere.

Edited June 3Jun 3 by Fat is a type of crazy

9 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I get where you are coming from - had they met on a dating website and had a couple of meals it could be a reasonable step. There are signs of potential interest but it is like the old joke where the shop girl smiles at the 65 year old and he thinks 'I've still got it' and she thinks 'He's so nice. Reminds me of grandpa'. Thailand can be different but I think some here overestimate that.

It is a good step for them to have gone out but, in one way, it is a bad sign that after knowing her for a while, and a couple of meals, the best that has happened is some very mild flirtation on her part. She is no doubt appreciative of the english help which may be important to her but that's all.

But if he feels it is a thing, as you say it is good to push it along somehow - you don't want to be that guy who six months later is Mr Nice guy, who has spent up on meals and maybe gifts and still be nowhere.

A very valid point.

If they had met on an English-language dating site specifically targeted towards Western men, then I would agree with your assessment. The narrative shifts somewhat from "a nice, ordinary Thai woman gradually becoming friends with, and perhaps developing feelings for, a foreign man" to an environment where both parties have entered the interaction with at least some awareness of the dating market and the opportunities it may present.

That doesn't automatically mean mercenary motives are involved, but it does make discussions around financial security, lifestyle expectations and long-term prospects more relevant. After all, people don't generally join those platforms by accident.

What makes this situation different, however, is that they appear to have met organically. In those circumstances, I think many people are too quick to interpret every interaction through the lens of dating apps, nightlife, financial motives and transactional relationships - certainly some on this website already are.

Most people in Thailand still meet through work, study, mutual friends, shared interests or simple chance encounters, just as they do everywhere else.

I also agree that he shouldn't spend six months drifting along as "Mr Nice Guy", paying for meals, offering favours and hoping that friendship somehow turns into romance. At some point, ambiguity has to be resolved. Either there is genuine mutual interest, or there isn't.

Where I perhaps differ is in the assumption that only mild flirtation after a few meals is somehow a bad sign. Outside of the dating-app world, many perfectly normal women are cautious. They are often acutely aware of appearances, conscious of how they may be perceived by friends and family, and reluctant to move too quickly. A lack of overt signals does not necessarily indicate a lack of interest.

The irony is that many of the same people who complain about women moving too fast, being financially motivated, or aggressively pursuing foreigners will also interpret a more reserved and traditional approach as evidence that there is no interest at all. Those two positions are difficult to reconcile.

Perhaps the biggest factor here is that some people spend so much time observing relationships that begin in bars, on dating apps, or in tourist hotspots that they start to believe those environments represent Thailand as a whole. In reality, they are looking at a very specific subset of women and then drawing conclusions about millions of others.

10 hours ago, 123Stodg said:

Been thinking more lately about a newish female friendship that has developed. It’s been confusing me, and I might benefit from a reality check from others who’ve actually been around Thailand long enough to know what they’re talking about.

I’ve been in Chiang Mai for close to seven months now. Left Bangkok in mid November last year to work on a side income project I had been toying with for a while. I’ve begun manufacturing something up here in the north in small amounts and, if all goes well over the next two months, then I’ll begin exporting it to the US and parts of Europe. It’s something I’ve done before, have some experience with, and had good success with in the past. Other than the work up here, though, I’ve been keeping to myself mostly.

About three months ago I started going to the same little local cafe near Nimman, usually about four mornings a week. Average place, but they do decent coffee and some good Western style breakfasts. There’s a girl who works there behind the counter, mid 20s, not one of those obviously done up girls, just naturally pretty in a subtle way. Small, nice smile, looks athletic, also a bit northern Thai Chinese looking, good skin, the kind of girl you find yourself looking forward to seeing at the start of the day. We started exchanging the usual pleasantries, then longer conversations. After about two weeks she started remembering which things I like to order, which I know sounds like no big deal, but somehow it felt like something.

About six weeks in, she mentioned she was taking an online course in the evenings to improve her English and asked if I’d be willing to review some of her written assignments occasionally. Her English is pretty good already, so I said sure, thinking it would be a one off. It wasn’t. We’ve been meeting at a coffee shop around the corner from the cafe on most Thursday evenings for about a month and a half now. Just talking, going over her work, sometimes for two hours.

A few weeks ago things shifted a little. Nothing major, just grabbed a quick dinner after reviewing her work when, while sharing a beer, it started feeling like possibly a bit more than just a friendship to me. Then another dinner like that the next week. She’s easy to be around. No performance, no agenda that I can detect, just genuinely friendly company. She also grabbed my hand the last time while walking back to where she parks her motorbike and then gave me a gentle hug. That’s as far as it’s gone physically, but I’d be lying if I said I hadn’t started wondering about the possibility of something more. And up until recently I’d assumed I would leave Chiang Mai in a few months once the business project is sorted, but now I’m not quite as certain about leaving so soon because I’m enjoying this new situation.

The age gap is significant, though. I’m very aware of that. She’s never brought it up and neither have I, but it’s obviously sitting there. And frankly, I’m not entirely sure what she sees in this. Maybe I’m the one projecting something onto it. Wouldn’t be the first time a man my age in Thailand convinced himself something was there with a much younger woman when really he was just being useful to someone.

But then she does things that don’t fit that explanation either. A couple of weeks ago, while we were going over something she’d written, she leaned across the table to point at something on my laptop. Her face got really close to mine, close enough that I was very aware of her, and I could smell some light perfume on her for the first time. She didn’t seem to notice what I was sensing, or if she was, she gave nothing away.

Last week she said something that’s also been stuck in my head. We were talking about nothing in particular and she said, “I like that you talk to me like my opinion matters.” Just said it casually. But it gave me a positive impression of her.

But the longer I’ve lived in Thailand, the less confident I’ve become about reading situations with Thai girls like this.

Back home, people tend to be more direct. Here, patience, politeness, and consideration seem woven into everyday life in ways that can be difficult to interpret if you’re not careful. Sometimes what looks like interest is just kindness. Sometimes what looks like kindness is something more.

Maybe that’s why I’ve found myself thinking about it more than I probably should. Just when I think I’ve got it figured out, I find myself questioning it all again.

Light the touchpaper, stand well back and whoosh! Watch the usual suspects appear and start tearing lumps out of each other.

Well played Sir! 👏👏

Appreciate the detailed replies, all of them, even the ones telling me to just make a move towards the sheets. Though I’d gently push back on that. If physical gratification was the primary objective here I wouldn’t have spent over ten paragraphs trying to articulate a situation I’m finding genuinely difficult to read.

In Asia, trying to decipher how someone really feels about you is often more difficult than gaining carnal knowledge from them.

The situation I wrote about is genuinely mysterious to me. Some things are worth trying to first understand properly rather than just acting on. Make of that what you will.

6 minutes ago, 123Stodg said:

Appreciate the detailed replies, all of them, even the ones telling me to just make a move towards the sheets. Though I’d gently push back on that. If physical gratification was the primary objective here I wouldn’t have spent over ten paragraphs trying to articulate a situation I’m finding genuinely difficult to read.

In Asia, trying to decipher how someone really feels about you is often more difficult than gaining carnal knowledge from them.

The situation I wrote about is genuinely mysterious to me. Some things are worth trying to first understand properly rather than just acting on. Make of that what you will.

At some point, you need to decide what outcome you're actually hoping for.

Are you content to continue helping her, meeting for coffee and enjoying the friendship, knowing that one day she may meet a boyfriend and your role evaporates ?

Or are you going to take steps to establish whether there is any romantic potential here? Not necessarily anything physical, but something that clearly moves the relationship beyond friendship and removes the ambiguity.

Because if you don't, six months from now you may find yourself exactly where you are today - except with less uncertainty about her feelings and more certainty about your position.

Whether that's the friend zone, the uncle zone, or simply the "helpful English teacher" zone is ultimately what you need to find out.