No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

[samran]

capatong, you are right, it is more complex than i stated, but who is going to read it? I was trying to summarise the key issues succintly. But you are right: Education, income, age, UK sourced income and one or two other things in the consideration of the extension.

So you could have just as succintly summarized the issues saying that they have changed the conditions without grandfathering those already in the system (but allowing them "grace periods" and other options anyway).

Instead, you have written many things which simply are not true and which make things appear harsher and harder than they are.

Anyhoo, you are right that the joint house of lords/commons commission said what they said. The only thing has been that the home office has refused to budge on the issue. There is a test case going to the high court, as to whether the changes were in fact legal with no grandfathering, and I and many are waiting to see if it gets recinded.

And that's why you can't compare the situation in Thailand to the UK.

Where are the laws that the Thai govt broke by issuing and applying this new immi change "overnight" and with no grandfathering?

Where are the laws that the Thai govt broke by issuing and applying the new immi changes RE people married to Thai citizens and parents of Thai citizens last year?

Where are the govt high bodies making themselves involved in the matter and publicly and so strongly condemning those new rules and calling for their immediate revisitation?

Where was the attention of the mainstream Thai media last year? Where is today?

As for my views on the Thai immigration rules and these "latest" changes, the fairness of spouses not being able to stay here easily, I'll leave it to your excellent research skills to trawl back through old posts to garner my views.

Done: as for this latest changes it suffices to read this thread, as for the part highlighted in red, you fully support the current rules (yes, I have just "trawled back through old posts to garner your views"). Say it ain't so and I will provide quotes.

As for other countries, do they practice discrimantory immigration proceedures? Depends on your views.

Yes they all do to some extent.

The key points here being to some extent and the fact that many countries (mainly Western ones but also countries as "poor" or "poorer" than Thailand) do let many people immigrate even when it's totally against their interests (economic and others) when humanitarian and other basic human rights issues are involved.

Thailand does not and nobody in Thailand seem to care or fight it.

It aint so. My last foray on the topic of all things marriages and PR related....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1490754

As for the rest of it, we'll just have to agree to disagree. While the UK and most other western nations are a easier on spousal visas, their approach to migration for others is just as hard/easy as Thailands is. Having jumped through the hoops for a non-EU'er to move to the UK, it is just as burecratic and time consuming as the Thai system is....

The Thai media don't care about it as no one is publising it properly in any way. If they did so in a concerted way, like the Australian govenrment/business groups did when the negotiation of the FTA was underway, they'd be seeing changes. Thailand and Australia agreed back then that spouses of work permit holders would be able to work in Thailand with greater ease for those entering Thailand under the provisions of the FTA. It was a big deal for the relatively small Australian community here, but they got it through.

I view the road to PR and citizenship here a bit differntly to others. I don't agree it as hard (at least for those who qualify) to get it here as it is anywhere else. There is always the perception of it being 'too hard', but I know too many people who have gotten PR and at least one who has gone through the citizenship hoop. This false perception of the relative difficulty as well as the lack of attractiveness of holding a Thai PP or Thai PR decreases the number people applying for it.

Anyway, just one question, you aren't related to BAF are you?

[JimmyTheMook]

Retire in Maleysia .....

I was there a couple of weeks ago and took a picture of the swimming pool at the hotel where a Malay and his wife were swimming.................

Were you offered some sort of rectal exam after you snapped that pic ? or was the long black rubber glove some sort of Malay fashion statement

Edited September 8, 2007 by JimmyTheMook

[capaotung]

It aint so. My last foray on the topic of all things marriages and PR related....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1490754

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...p;#entry1461316 "IMHO I think the 40K rule is a great one in the sense as it sets a bar for people to think about...and makes them ask the question "can I survive in Thailand"."

And the rest of your posts in that thread...

As for the rest of it, we'll just have to agree to disagree. While the UK and most other western nations are a easier on spousal visas, their approach to migration for others is just as hard/easy as Thailands is. Having jumped through the hoops for a non-EU'er to move to the UK, it is just as burecratic and time consuming as the Thai system is....

This is not a matter of personal opinions: whenever one starts to lay out the actual rules and conditions and compare them it quickly becomes clear where they are fairer, clearer, more evenly enforced, more stable and where they eventually provide more benefits and lead to a more safe and stable future.

The Thai media don't care about it as no one is publising it properly in any way.

Obviously in that case they may! But the BBC and the rest of the mainstream UK media haven't talked about it because OTHER foreign media were, they talked about it because it was an interesting piece of news for the general UK public opinion, always very sensitive to basic human rights issues!

And where are in Thailand the institutional bodies meant to deal with these kind of issues?? Where are the political personalities singly raising these issues and bringing them to attention??

If they did so in a concerted way, like the Australian govenrment/business groups did when the negotiation of the FTA was underway, they'd be seeing changes. Thailand and Australia agreed back then that spouses of work permit holders would be able to work in Thailand with greater ease for those entering Thailand under the provisions of the FTA. It was a big deal for the relatively small Australian community here, but they got it through.

A great example! If we reciprocated Thai immigration and property laws we would see a quick change of attitude!

I view the road to PR and citizenship here a bit differntly to others. I don't agree it as hard (at least for those who qualify) to get it here as it is anywhere else.

You are clearly not getting it...

There is always the perception of it being 'too hard', but I know too many people who have gotten PR and at least one who has gone through the citizenship hoop. This false perception of the relative difficulty as well as the lack of attractiveness of holding a Thai PP or Thai PR decreases the number people applying for it.

"lack of attractiveness"?!? I think practically all of the Thaivisa members (me included) would definitely want to have PR!

As for the citizenship, other very different issues come into play. For example, for moral reasons I wouldn't want to be a Thai. I can't be proud to be Thai hence I don't want to become one.

Anyway, just one question, you aren't related to BAF are you?

I am already the second poster on this thread you have asked this to. Do you do it to all of those who presses you with arguments you don't have an answer to?

He has been banned, come to terms with it...

[Bagwan]

The Thais have much bigger problems than worrying about the effect of their immigration policies on the farang "retirement" population (no one should be retired at 50!!) eg. poverty in the NE, AIDS, insurgency in the south, lack of a democracy etc. etc.

The Thai ruling classes do not see these as problems. They are not personally affected and subsequently couldn't give a pig's butt about 'the peasants.' Their snouts are in the trough and that is all that matters to them.

I retired at the age of 55 merely because I had enough salted away to see me to the end of my days. I went to work to earn money for me and mine, not for the greater good of the country or for the benefit of the shareholders. When I had got what I wanted I got off the treadmill. Call it freedom of choice, a concept very foreign to Thailand.

[Martin]

Way back in the thread, it was said:

"I understand the UK has roughly the same size as Thailand and, contrary to Thailand, is a welfare state. A bit of perspective is always useful."

Thailand has roughly the same population as the UK, but is far bigger in land size. About a big as France.

The UK is a barely-functional (or, at best, very patchy) welfare state.

Thailand has a much better Social Security system (provided it is operated fairly).

It is called: The Family.

Thaksin is still very popular up here because he promised to make it much fairer---get your sick family member to the hospital and the hospital won't refuse to consider you because you are skint. And he delivered on the promise. Even to the extent of building a big new outpatients' section for my Amphur's hospital in order to cope with the extra numbers now getting hospital examination when they need it (i.e. in the early days of their illness, not in the morgue).

I wai and say "Kop boon mah karp" in all sincerity each time I get my extension to stay here in retirement.

I am, probably, only alive because on the two times that I have had blockages of my coronary arteries, I was in the Far East and not in the UK.

In 1993, Singapore's welfare system swung into action and I was operated on within a week of my going to my GP.

In 2003, I recognised the symptoms and a family member took me (and my wife, as translator, if necessary) to the cardiologists at the Regional teaching hospital (Srinakarind, at Khon Kaen University). Again, I was operated on within the week.

In the UK, I might well have died whilst waiting for a slot in the queue for the operating theatre. (Many with the same problem do).

I say: "Thank you, Thailand, for letting me live here in retirement, provided that I fit with in the regulations that you have to impose to keep your social systems well functional.

If you do have to raise the barriers higher to keep out an unmanageable flood, I hope that you will "greatgrandfather" me so I can go on living with the woman that I married, who is one of the greatgrandmothers of a goodly group of young Thais."

That is my perspective.

[ozzydom]

quote.

Thaksin is still very popular up here because he promised to make it much fairer---get your sick family member to the hospital and the hospital won't refuse to consider you because you are skint. And he delivered on the promise. Even to the extent of building a big new outpatients' section for my Amphur's hospital in order to cope with the extra numbers now getting hospital examination when they need it (i.e. in the early days of their illness, not in the morgue).

Wonder you didnt go to Paolo seeing Thaksin owns it

[Martin]

"Wonder you didnt go to Paolo seeing Thaksin owns it "

I don't know of a hospital in Udon or Khon Kaen with that name.

But, in any case, I always follow my Mother's advice.

She had trained as a midwife at the biggest hospital in Leeds in the UK, and told me: "Wherever you are in the world, if you need medical attention, go to the nearest Teaching Hospital."

Her advice has stood me in good stead.

I feel for any farang couple that have settled here in retirement, on annual extensions of permission to stay, and can't meet these new requirements.

But we do come here, or go anywhere, knowing that things may change and we may have to adapt, or move on.

[gdhm]

Way back in the thread, it was said:

..."I understand the UK has roughly the same size as Thailand and, contrary to Thailand, is a welfare state. A bit of perspective is always useful."

Thailand has roughly the same population as the UK, but is far bigger in land size. About a big as France.

The UK is a barely-functional (or, at best, very patchy) welfare state.

Thailand has a much better Social Security system (provided it is operated fairly).

It is called: The Family...

Silly me, I thought the Sin Sod levels expected of Westerners and foreigners marrying Thai ladies AND the hoped for (expected) significant contributions from foreign husband's are what makes a lot of Thai family welfare systems work.

I am ONLY joking .

Seriously though, I appreciate that all your comments (and not just the above) were as you said from your perspective.

From my perspective.

I agree with your view about the Thai Family -at an emotional, and caring day to day level BUT I doubt many families could pay for a major of even medium operation for the most loved of families members and the subsequent medical care and attention needed. The Health Gold Card medical system although a massive step in the right direction is still very inadequate and NOTHING compared to the UK's.

The Thai families you correctly praise, try to cater for their elderly parents but often have to struggle on tiny wages when the parents have no pensions to help at all. This can never be good for families and must cause a sizable number of breakup and associated illnesses.

Also even though many in Thailand do support their families. It is still a risk when old and maybe unhealthy, relying nearly 100% on your family's ability and love to be able to take you in and care for you.

1) The family may not (for whatever reason) and then where is your Thailand's better welfare system(a 70+ year old homeless person on the street begging)

2) Not everybody wishes to burden their families when old. After all your Thai children may be struggling mightily already to survive and cater for themselves and their offspring.

A Welfare state, like the UK's may not provide enough, but at least it has provisions to help to some degree most of the people. Thailand (outside the families charity and love) has very little. This is not Thailand's fault. Those born in the UK were fortunate to be born in one of the richer countries of the World unlike those born in Thailand.

Because of the financial strains on Thai families areas like Isaan and the surrounding areas especially, see many young ladies go South to places like Pattaya, Bangkok and Phuket to earn money as Bargirls.

Many send a fair proportion of their earnings back home to help support their families. Lets be totally honest some Thai ladies look for Farang husbands with half an eye on their kindness and willingness to help support their new Thai extended families

I know both these facts are true from many reports on the Internet and forums AND personal knowledge gained from many acquaintances of my first and second wives.

These are but two examples of "Thailand's Social Security system -THE FAMILY". They impress me that the girls (whilst seeking better lives for themselves) also care so much about their families BUT it deeply saddens me that Thai ladies find themselves under so much pressure to look after their families due to the state inability at present to do much it itself.

I am sure Thailand would give "it right arm" to have a welfare system like the UK's AND that does nothing to stop Thailand's enviablee attitude to looking after and caring for the family.

I feel have your have gone overboard by suggesting th UK's Welfare system is barely-functional. It may be worse than we Brits would like, but it still better than most in the World. It is still the envy of many countries in the World even if it can't keep up with demand. I feel we should compare the UK welfare system to that of its level in the whole World and NOT purely on what we Brits wish it was.

Regards, Dave

Edited September 9, 2007 by gdhm

[Martin]

Thanks, Dave, for taking my point that there are different perspectives, and giving yours.

Now, to this morning's news.

I have just read this:

"All skilled workers entering Britain from outside the EU will from next year be required to be proficient in English equivalent to GCSE level with the same requirement likely to be imposed on intermediate skilled workers soon after."

GCSE is written exams, set at the level that about 80% of 17-year-olds can pass it, after 5 years of secondary-school lessons.

Suppose there were those in Thailand who wanted farangs kept out and 'had the ear' of the legislators and decided the equivalent of the above should apply to applicants for extensions to stay.

Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear!!!

My "Phum mae pood Thai. Phum pood Lao nid noi, nid noi, nid noi. Sip kahm. Bo peng yang?" may be enough to get an Isaan speed cop laughing and on his way to letting me go (as happened twice last week), but it is way, way, way short of being able to read the exam paper that a 17-year-old Thai can read, never mind writing answers in Thai script.

Don't think I am taking the risk of putting something into Thai heads that we should keep out.

It'll already be there.

There are bright, middle-class Thais at lecturer and professorial levels down at Khon Kaen University who often read the UK newspaper website from which I extracted that. And not all of them are pro-farang.

Scale that up by the number of universities here.

It behoves us all to act in manners that are acceptable to all varieties of Thais who have clout.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Martin

[wolfmanjack]

It behoves us all to act in manners that are acceptable to all varieties of Thais who have clout.

Impossible. No one can be all things to all people.

You can't please every one.

I am what I am and that is that. i won't pretend that i am something i am not.

If it means me taking my family elsewhere then I will deal with it. There is no way we can please all of the people that have power in this country or any other.

[gdhm]

It behoves us all to act in manners that are acceptable to all varieties of Thais who have clout.

Impossible. No one can be all things to all people.

You can't please every one.

I am what I am and that is that. i won't pretend that i am something i am not.

If it means me taking my family elsewhere then I will deal with it. There is no way we can please all of the people that have power in this country or any other.

I think both views are correct. We cannot be all things to all people BUT we can be respectful and attempt to fit in where reasonable and possible without selling our culture and beliefs short.

I think we all would agree that some of the migrants from the UK to Australia that earned themselves the nickname "Wingeing Poms" (in the 60s mainly I believe) did nothing to enhance their acceptance, welcome or feeling part of the country and its people.

When in another's "home" you should at least try to be pleasant, understanding of their coutures and ways, "fit in" and be respectful and most of all be aware it IS their home (not ours) and it is not reasonable to expect Thais to change to our ways unless THEY as a Nation or individual so chose to adopt some of them.

Thailand IS adopting some Western cultures be they alien to its culture. Christmas as a festival is starting to be more popular and the bigger change I can think of is the statistical evidence that the Thai extended family is changing in popularity to the Western style family of the smaller parents and children unit. The last figures I saw suggested the Western style will soon be the majority

Whether this is a good thing or not is probably Yes and no. Certainly it is probably not a good thing if Families are needed to compensate for no welfare system, as Western family units tend to be more insular and feel responsible mostly for their own direct small unit.

Regards, Dave

[Naam]

I think both views are correct. We cannot be all things to all people BUT we can be respectful and attempt to fit in where reasonable and possible without selling our culture and beliefs short.

When in another's "home" you should at least try to be pleasant, understanding of their coutures and ways, "fit in" and be respectful and most of all be aware it IS their home (not ours) and it is not reasonable to expect Thais to change to our ways unless THEY as a Nation or individual so chose to adopt some of them.

= words of wisdom Dave! unfortunately some whiners keep on with their utterly boring complaints "why is Thailand different from Wales, Southern Italy, North Dakota or Bavaria?".

[phuketrichard]

I dont get this at all. If they have Thai children then surely he/she can have a marriage visa, assuming they are married that is. I know a 38 year old lady married to a Thai man with no children and she has a 1 year marriage visa although I do not know the rules she abides by.

A farang Lady married to a thai man NEEDS no visa at all and can stay AND WORK in thailad with no visa. no work permit. She is entitled to the same as a thai except cannot vote.

This has been like this as long as I have been here ( over 25 years) and I know a few american ladies with Thai husbands

to bad it does not work the other way but a western man needs to jump thru the hoops which they change yearky at theri wim.

[stickyb]

The expats club seem to have this take - is it a hoax?

ALLEGED NEW VISA REGULATIONS – The ThaiVisa web site reported that there were new regulations effective September 1st, which would require dependents of holders of a retirement visa to qualify for an extension on their own. Thus a spouse, if 50 or older would need to also meet the income requirement separate from those his or her spouse. A spouse under 50 or dependents would not be able to have their visas extended based on their spouse/parent having a retirement visa. It now appears that this report is a hoax and completely false.

We talked with Barry Kenyon Thursday afternoon (September. 6th) - he stated that he has asked, through his contacts with Immigration in Pattaya to query Immigration Management in Bangkok about it. They stated that they have not issued such regulations, and knew nothing about them. According to Barry, Pattaya Immigration is renewing dependents of holders of Retirement Visa's as normal - married couples are being renewed as they always have been - the spouse's qualification is automatically approved if the husband is approved.

The requirement for a map, if there is such a requirement, has not been reported as being required at Pattaya Immigration by those recently renewing their Retirement Visas. It should be noted that there are differences, at times, between what happens at our excellent Pattaya Immigration office, and other Immigration offices in Thailand.

http://www.pattayacityexpatsclub.com/modul...le&sid=1008

[Martin]

'phuketrichard' said, in post # 795:

"A farang Lady married to a thai man NEEDS no visa at all and can stay AND WORK in thailad with no visa. no work permit. She is entitled to the same as a thai except cannot vote.

This has been like this as long as I have been here ( over 25 years) and I know a few american ladies with Thai husbands"

True.

But I would bet that, if 100,000 Thai men suddenly showed signs that they were going to take (relatively) rich Indian wives (or English, or....), that rule would be changed pdq.

Maybe in such a hurry that the 'grandmothering' of those American ladies would get overlooked!

[samran]

'phuketrichard' said, in post # 795:

"A farang Lady married to a thai man NEEDS no visa at all and can stay AND WORK in thailad with no visa. no work permit. She is entitled to the same as a thai except cannot vote.

This has been like this as long as I have been here ( over 25 years) and I know a few american ladies with Thai husbands"

True.

But I would bet that, if 100,000 Thai men suddenly showed signs that they were going to take (relatively) rich Indian wives (or English, or....), that rule would be changed pdq.

Maybe in such a hurry that the 'grandmothering' of those American ladies would get overlooked!

NOT true.

Apart from no need for the 40K per month requirement, visas are annual, 90 day reporting mandatory, re-entry permits needed, and a yearly visit to immigration is necessary. A work permit is still needed, and the compnay who issues it is subject to all the same requirmenets when hiring a non-thai.

How do I know, I am thai and my wife a foreigner.

Stop printing such tosh if you know nothing about it.

[p_brownstone]

A farang Lady married to a thai man NEEDS no visa at all and can stay AND WORK in thailad with no visa. no work permit. She is entitled to the same as a thai except cannot vote.

This has been like this as long as I have been here ( over 25 years) and I know a few american ladies with Thai husbands

to bad it does not work the other way but a western man needs to jump thru the hoops which they change yearky at theri wim.

Only if the wife has been granted Thai Citizenship - which is easier for a foreign woman, married to a Thai, to get than it is for a foreign man, married to a Thai or not.

But it's certainly not an automatic right of a woman married to a Thai man.

Patrick

[PeaceBlondie]

This makes 800 posts on a most important subject, in less than 11 days, with over 55,000 views on ThaiVisa.

It was not a hoax, and was reported as a distinct possibility/likelihood by a most reputable source. If it turns out that the actual regulation is less harsh than reported, it may in fact be due to its publicity here.

It has awakened some of us who are only peripherally affected, such as single farang on year-to-year extensions. Hopefully it was also awakened some powerful Thais who don't want to lose thousands of retired 'settlers' who will also influence prospective tourists to avoid the lovely Kingdom of quirky immigration rules.

[wcr]

The below was reported by Pattaya City Expats Club. Barry Kenyon is the British Consular in Pattaya, very well known, and is in immigration every day to assist UK Citizens as I understand. If he is saying immigration have told him they are unaware of these rules, that is what he has been told.

To say that this post has led to a change in National Thai Immigration regulations is rather far fetched.

"We talked with Barry Kenyon Thursday afternoon (September. 6th) - he stated that he has asked, through his contacts with Immigration in Pattaya to query Immigration Management in Bangkok about it. They stated that they have not issued such regulations, and knew nothing about them. According to Barry, Pattaya Immigration is renewing dependents of holders of Retirement Visa's as normal - married couples are being renewed as they always have been - the spouse's qualification is automatically approved if the husband is approved.

The requirement for a map, if there is such a requirement, has not been reported as being required at Pattaya Immigration by those recently renewing their Retirement Visas. It should be noted that there are differences, at times, between what happens at our excellent Pattaya Immigration office, and other Immigration offices in Thailand".

[Naam]

It was not a hoax, and was reported as a distinct possibility/likelihood by a most reputable source.

PB, notwithstanding the fact that the source is reputable i [not so] humbly beg to differ that it was reported as a "distinct possibility/likelihood".

[wolfmanjack]

I think both views are correct. We cannot be all things to all people BUT we can be respectful and attempt to fit in where reasonable and possible without selling our culture and beliefs short.

When in another's "home" you should at least try to be pleasant, understanding of their coutures and ways, "fit in" and be respectful and most of all be aware it IS their home (not ours) and it is not reasonable to expect Thais to change to our ways unless THEY as a Nation or individual so chose to adopt some of them.

= words of wisdom Dave! unfortunately some whiners keep on with their utterly boring complaints "why is Thailand different from Wales, Southern Italy, North Dakota or Bavaria?".

Personally i don't know any one that expects thailand to be the same as their home country. After all we left our home country to be here. The only thing that i do hear people complaining about is the lack of logic and fairness in what the government does.

There are issues that people complain about like double pricing, the way most thais drive, etc but I think most of that is complaining for something to do. There are many people like my mother and weho that would not be happy if they did not have something to complain about.

[phuketrichard]

'phuketrichard' said, in post # 795:

"A farang Lady married to a thai man NEEDS no visa at all and can stay AND WORK in thailad with no visa. no work permit. She is entitled to the same as a thai except cannot vote.

This has been like this as long as I have been here ( over 25 years) and I know a few american ladies with Thai husbands"

True.

But I would bet that, if 100,000 Thai men suddenly showed signs that they were going to take (relatively) rich Indian wives (or English, or....), that rule would be changed pdq.

Maybe in such a hurry that the 'grandmothering' of those American ladies would get overlooked!

NOT true.

Apart from no need for the 40K per month requirement, visas are annual, 90 day reporting mandatory, re-entry permits needed, and a yearly visit to immigration is necessary. A work permit is still needed, and the compnay who issues it is subject to all the same requirmenets when hiring a non-thai.

How do I know, I am thai and my wife a foreigner.

Stop printing such tosh if you know nothing about it.

I stand corrected if that is so BUT I know 2 american ladies, one teaches school and one used to run a bookstore here in Phuket/

both married to thai men, both had 1 year extensions (did not need to report to immigration every 90 days) did not need to leave the country, that were renewable by just showing up at immigration, (and of course paying 1,900 baht) both did NOT have work permits, and yes both needed re-entry permits.

Like i have said many times I think each and every thai immigration interperts the law as they see fit.

I just got my 1 year extension based on i have a thai daughter, divorced and sole custody and Immigration required 500,000 in the bank for 3 months while the law states no money required.

What ya going to do arque with them :-)

[lopburi3]

It was not a hoax, and was reported as a distinct possibility/likelihood by a most reputable source.

PB, notwithstanding the fact that the source is reputable i [not so] humbly beg to differ that it was reported as a "distinct possibility/likelihood".

As we have posted this is not a hoax and is more than a possibility. Have contracted Sunbelt and they are most happy to have persons accompany them to Immigration and ask themselves. Gregs quote is below:

Anyone that wants to go to Immigration and speak with one of the higher ups about the new regs. We'll be happy to introduce and help translate if needed. We have checked with three different people so its real. Then again, I wonder as you the final version may be different. So far we are told it won't be.

[Lite Beer]

It was not a hoax, and was reported as a distinct possibility/likelihood by a most reputable source.

PB, notwithstanding the fact that the source is reputable i [not so] humbly beg to differ that it was reported as a "distinct possibility/likelihood".

As we have posted this is not a hoax and is more than a possibility. Have contracted Sunbelt and they are most happy to have persons accompany them to Immigration and ask themselves. Gregs quote is below:

Anyone that wants to go to Immigration and speak with one of the higher ups about the new regs. We'll be happy to introduce and help translate if needed. We have checked with three different people so its real. Then again, I wonder as you the final version may be different. So far we are told it won't be.

Any one know when the final version is comming?

[dutch]

We will know very soon.

It is about 10 days now,thus publication time

[IAMSOBAD]

Did anyone go to BKK immigration office today? Did you ask about this new order? Anyone have any official word?

That is what this topic should be about. All the other garbage is all talk. Has anyone talked to their embassies? The newspapers? CNN...BBC...? Speak up to the world...I DID. So should you.

[JimmyCA]

No big deal, most marriages are between falrang punters (male) and thai women not farang punters (female) and thai men.

Note the gender nutral post

[brahmburgers]

A farang Lady married to a Thai man NEEDS no visa at all and can stay AND WORK in thailad with no visa. no work permit. She is entitled to the same as a thai except cannot vote.

This has been like this as long as I have been here ( over 25 years) and I know a few american ladies with Thai husbands

to bad it does not work the other way but a western man needs to jump thru the hoops which they change yearky at theri wim.

looks like your typing slurped on your last three words. Seriously though, it's downright sad and shows how stuck in 'old thinking' the Thai bureaucrats are: if what you said is true - about the gross inequality of how the rules apply when the genders are different.

slightly different spin, but it brings to mind a Thai male friend I had in California - several years ago, before I came to reside here in Thailand: He had an American wife and several kids with her. He would travel all around the state wheeling and dealing with his flea market type business. He didn't have any hassles from Uncle Sam regarding his marriage nor his biz dealings. He got acclimated in to the mixing pot known as America - and went about doing businesses and taking care of his family. Such a big contrast to what a farang man now has to deal with in a similar scenario in Thailand. the farang husband would have to continually look over his shoulder and jump through hoops in order to try and please the ever-changing visa rules. He would also be forbidden from doing any number of biz gigs (in Thailand) - that a Thai could do in the States without a second thought.

[samran]

A farang Lady married to a Thai man NEEDS no visa at all and can stay AND WORK in thailad with no visa. no work permit. She is entitled to the same as a thai except cannot vote.

This has been like this as long as I have been here ( over 25 years) and I know a few american ladies with Thai husbands

to bad it does not work the other way but a western man needs to jump thru the hoops which they change yearky at theri wim.

looks like your typing slurped on your last three words. Seriously though, it's downright sad and shows how stuck in 'old thinking' the Thai bureaucrats are: if what you said is true -

it aint....

[PattayaParent]

I am someone who will be affected by these new requirements in a couple of years when I will be 50 and my foreign wife nowhere near that age, we also have a 3 year old kid that will need full time schooling by then.

My plan was to get the Retirement Visa so my wife and daughter can get visas also and enable us to stay here. Now that plan might need to be amended a little but we have a fallback position with a property in my wife's country where my daughter could go to International School.

In that case I'd just rent out our flat here and come back to it for holidays, as I had planned to do with the otehr property.

Alternatively if I can still get her a Class O Visa then my wife can do border runs every 90 days, or just go home to visit family and get a new visa. (I'm assuming that my daughter would get an education visa.)

In any case I don't think there's any need to panic and plan to sell up and quit the country for other places which quite frankly are nowhere near as good to live as Thailand.