On 9/4/2026 at 1:41 PM, Cameroni said:

Very true. I could not say if these Chinese cars are good or bad, though I have low confidence and given the choice between a German/Japanese/Korean/American/British/French car or a Chinese one, there is no chance in hell I would buy a Chinese car.

It's not just about cars, the car industry is the backbone of the British and German and French economy, anyone who buys a Chinese car is basically a traitor to their own country.

First paragraph, represents most of the anti EV sentiment, which I just don't understand how you rationalize that.

... "don't know good or bad" ... but wouldn't buy, or even research & consider. Pure ignorance at it's best. Some BEV are simply better and cheaper, than the non CN EV & ICE offerings, with lifetime warranties to top it off. How are they not even considered for your next vehicle.

2nd paragraph ... if buying CN products, you're a traitor. That's some pretty strong allegiance to a country that could probably care less about you. If Brit, in TH, retired, they froze your pension. Nothing says "We're here for Ya" like "F'you, you don't deserve more"

You probably don't own anything, electronic, that doesn't have parts in it from CN.

I don't care who makes or sells anything. I'll buy the best product, for the best price, as it's my money, my hours I put in to earn it. I deserve the best for the best price, and I lost faith & respect for my country, a long time ago.

They abandoned the Yank worker, bY sending most manufacturing overseas. A big "F you" in my opinion. Profits in pocket, mean more than investing in the USA.

I can't think of anything, I've bought, or would buy again, from the USA, as they simply put out overpriced crap. Thinking about what we have, and only a Lodge cast iron skillet, overpriced, and I had to grind it down to finish it, and I think that's it, from the USA.

Everything else, made in TH, CN, JP, KR.

Edited Saturday at 07:22 AM3 days by KhunLA

12 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

2nd paragraph ... if buying CN products, you're a traitor. That's some pretty strong allegiance to a country that could probably care less about you. If Brit, in TH, retired, they froze your pension. Nothing says "We're here for Ya" like "F'you, you don't deserve more"

You probably don't own anything, electronic, that doesn't have parts in it from CN.

VW just announced 50,000 lay offs!

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

VW just announced 50,000 lay offs!

Beside CN putting the screws to them, they really lost customer confidence with their little scandals. Som nam naa.

Read they're moving over to the defense department contracts, in some factories they're actually keeping open. Yearly losses, market share loss, nobody buying VW is killing them.

Edited Saturday at 07:49 AM3 days by KhunLA

4 hours ago, jvs said:

Here are more "restored" cars!

Just amazing!

Most of these are being built for a burgeoning EV replica industry in China, like what happened with Mini Mokes. By all accounts, the Mini body shells are at least as good as the Heritage shells that were being put together in the UK from old tooling. And not forgetting the original cars weren't that well made by modern standards. This Chinese factory seems to employ a lot of older workers.

The AE86 shells provides the possibility of taking a Thai K70, which are as cheap as chips, and fitting up the driveline to one of these. importing a AE86 from Japan is obviously an impossibility.

Probably shouldn't exaggerate the impact these have on classic cars; the AE86, even the 240Z markets are not that big, and the best cars are already preserved. It becomes a different matter if, like the Mk1 and Mk2 Escort, someone takes a replica shell, and effectively kit out the car with modern mechanics, and sells as a extremely high end low volume car allowable through UK/EU rules, or a track car. Imagine a 240z with modified R34 running gear. Or for Thailand, a 240Z with cheap Cefiro gear. Currently you are paying stupid money for an "original" car with a wheezy 120-130hp.

32 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

First paragraph, represents most of the anti EV sentiment, which I just don't understand how you rationalize that.

... "don't know good or bad" ... but wouldn't buy, or even research & consider. Pure ignorance at it's best. Some BEV are simply better and cheaper, than the non CN EV & ICE offerings, with lifetime warranties to top it off. How are they not even considered for your next vehicle.

2nd paragraph ... if buying CN products, you're a traitor. That's some pretty strong allegiance to a country that could probably care less about you. If Brit, in TH, retired, they froze your pension. Nothing says "We're here for Ya" like "F'you, you don't deserve more"

You probably don't own anything, electronic, that doesn't have parts in it from CN.

I don't care who makes or sells anything. I'll buy the best product, for the best price, as it's my money, my hours I put in to earn it. I deserve the best for the best price, and I lost faith & respect for my country, a long time ago.

They abandoned the Yank worker, bY sending most manufacturing overseas. A big "F you" in my opinion. Profits in pocket, mean more than investing in the USA.

I can't think of anything, I've bought, or would buy again, from the USA, as they simply put out overpriced crap. Thinking about what we have, and only a Lodge cast iron skillet, overpriced, and I had to grind it down to finish it, and I think that's it, from the USA.

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Everything else, made in TH, CN, JP, KR.

I'm guessing he is sticking with his 40 year old Ferguson or Rediffiusion 3 channel telly, because it has a nice wood finish and is British.

Or the equivalent American brand from 50+ years ago. No remote of course, the walking stick will reach.

Cars are becoming commoditised for sure. At one time, having a fridge in a home was genuine pride of place. Even today, people would swear about the quality of these 1930s designs, and probably point out one still running. Or later, the TV. My dad remembered his dad getting one in for the Coronation. I'm sure it had a tiny screen, probably quite well made, and it cost and arm and a leg. I'm sure a working one could be made to receive digital signals, but would you really want to watch Netflix on it, or grumble forever about how the Jap Crap from Sony destroyed good Murphy, Zenith and Magnavox models.

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Beside CN putting the screws to them, they really lost customer confidence with their little scandals. Som nam naa.

Read they're moving over to the defense department contracts, in some factories they're actually keeping open. Yearly losses, market share loss, nobody buying VW is killing them.

Well VW started as a scam; the Nazis collecting workers money promising them a nice car, but never delivering them (the money was literally used as a slush fund). After WW2, the British took over the sector, and needed staff cars, putting the workers to work. Then an out of work Opel executive rocked up, and transformed what was considered even in 1945 a terrible car, into a favourite, mostly through doing something no one had thought of before; a dealer network with committed customer service. Before cars were sold, and the dealers basically told to <deleted> off and quit bothering them.

If VW are returning to defence contracts well that a bit like back to 1945 and Major Ivan Hirst all over again. Certainly what the VW will find; the defence industry will do well for the next few years, with contracts. But it won't be forever. The industry (I worked in it) is quite peaky and troughy. The troughs are deep with procurement programmes end without replacement. Interestingly, they'd do well to look at British Aerospace, which is one of the biggest players out there. Back in the day, BAe brought Austin Rover (the former BL), and then sold that on after a few years to BMW. People think that BAe made a hash at it, because they don't know the car industry. But I feel they absorbed some of the Leyland manufacturing expertise; building at scale. Previously, the high tech part of the defence industry was a bit cottage industry like. Famous names were actually small factories, making things very slowly in batches.

Another parallel; Alvis. Alvis made REALLY nice cars, right until the 1960s. They segued into defence. The cars are long gone, but as part of GKN, the name is well respected in defence.

Moving onto COVID-19, we found out the "hitech" medical devices industry was much the same; the market dominant Smiths Medical ventilators were being made in a shoddy looking shed in Luton. The car industry, such as Ford, GM, the F1 teams, Mercedes, were brought in to leverage some of their expertise of making lots of things, at scale, quickly, and implementing large volume 3D printing. Didn't quite pan out when people discovered that COVID-19 victims didn't actually need ventilators, so now we have warehouses full of the things, half a decade on, that hospitals don't need.

At least VW is being responsible to its shareholders, and recognising change is in the air. Happens in all areas. The successful companies adapt and thrive, the unsuccessful ones become Radioshack, Woolworths and Circuit City. Maybe they left it too late.

Human beings, like all living organisms, possess an inherent instinct for self-preservation. When a perceived external threat emerges, societies often respond collectively, driven by a form of herd mentality and a desire to protect their interests.

The West increasingly views China as a strategic and economic challenge, and this perception has intensified significantly in recent years. What we are witnessing today may represent the later stages of a prolonged geopolitical and economic struggle, with China appearing to gain considerable ground.

Over time, however, tensions may subside, wounds may heal, and national egos may eventually give way to a clearer understanding of reality. Ultimately, history may provide a more balanced perspective on these developments... it may simply be a matter of time. In such struggles, however, principles of fairness, equality, and a level playing field are often overlooked when larger strategic interests are at stake.

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Don't remember saying 'market would go bust in USA within 2 yrs'. That was britman2, and gives Yanks more credit that myself.

Weird, so you made an irrelevant insertion.

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Yanks are too ignorant, and full of themselves, and actually believe they make some of the best vehicles, products, or have the best anything, except most incarcerated or largest defense budget.

An utterly unrealistic statement that seems to be an emotional reaction. Of course the US designs and builds SOME of the world’s finest products including medical equipment, aircraft and not to mention Tesla EV’s, etc.

12 minutes ago, novacova said:

Weird, so you made an irrelevant insertion.

An utterly unrealistic statement that seems to be an emotional reaction. Of course the US designs and builds SOME of the world’s finest products including medical equipment, aircraft and not to mention Tesla EV’s, etc.

Yeah, about those aircraft.

https://www.netflix.com/title/81780118

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZDSYBkcH2U

6 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

How many countries has China bombed in the last, say, 50 years?

Now ask the same question of the US.

Then see if you are intelligent enough to compare the two numbers and draw a conclusion.

got it. you support china and would rather see them rule

Just now, Yagoda said:

got it. you support china and would rather see them rule

Oops, seems you forgot to answer the question.

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

When I visited China in 2019, I was absolutely shocked how inaccurate the western media had portrayed it. Nobody cared where I went or what I did, immigration just ignored me (unlike USA and UK passport control). The police allegedly watching and following foreigners just didn't exist.

And the Chinese people appeared to be living happy lives (compared to the UK/USA where almost nobody is happy ..... not even the immigrants

i was impressed by shanghai i will say. out in the country side around it....well not so much.

nobody cared what i did either, but i found the atmosphere oppressive.

im sure if you stood with a sign saying mao blows donkey d you would have seen some action

16 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Oops, seems you forgot to answer the question.

you mean argue about the relevance?

18 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

got it. you support china and would rather see them rule

No you don't get it!

China rules already!!!

lol

4 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

i was impressed by shanghai i will say. out in the country side around it....well not so much.

nobody cared what i did either, but i found the atmosphere oppressive.

im sure if you stood with a sign saying mao blows donkey d you would have seen some action

How did you find the atmosphere oppressive exactly?

26 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

How did you find the atmosphere oppressive exactly?

is that a real question or just another excuse to spew your usual vomit

27 minutes ago, jvs said:

No you don't get it!

China rules already!!!

lol

oh really? tell us how lol

you are saying that china dictates what goes on in the world.

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

is that a real question or just another excuse to spew your usual vomit

It's a real question, just like my last one was. I'm genuinely curious to know how you found the atmosphere oppressive. What was it about the atmosphere there?

31 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

It's a real question, just like my last one was

got it.

you should go there yourself

32 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I'm genuinely curious to know how you found the atmosphere oppressive. What was it about the atmosphere there?

I find the atmosphere oppressive in hot, humid weather and when the air quality is horrible.  This is why I prefer winter 

2 minutes ago, Mr Awesome said:

I find the atmosphere oppressive in hot, humid weather and when the air quality is horrible.  This is why I prefer winter 

the air quality is terrible in shanghai.

2 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

got it.

you should go there yourself

I have been there many many times, I ran a company in Shanghai for a while. That's why I am asking you why you found the atmosphere oppressive. I never felt that at all. So something must have happened for you to feel that, so why are you going to keep dodging the question?

You felt it, you must have a good reason, it's a genuine question. If you can't explain why would you say it? People might think you are making it up.

So, what was it that felt oppressive? Third time of asking. Simple question based on something you said. Not trying to catch you out, just asking why you felt that.

25 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I have been there many many times, I ran a company in Shanghai for a while. That's why I am asking you why you found the atmosphere oppressive. I never felt that at all. So something must have happened for you to feel that, so why are you going to keep dodging the question?

You felt it, you must have a good reason, it's a genuine question. If you can't explain why would you say it? People might think you are making it up.

So, what was it that felt oppressive? Third time of asking. Simple question based on something you said. Not trying to catch you out, just asking why you felt that.

well clearly you will disagree as a china shill, but regardless...the police presence everywhere, the unsmiling folks on long ques, the cheap empty apartment buildings everwhere, the extreme poverty, the hostile stares, the rudeness, the sense of quiet desperation, the unfriendliness....

19 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

The majority of cars aged over 30 years are junkers. A large reason for that is the lack of serious annual safety inspections. Like this POS that just a few days earlier was someone's daily

I have to suffer dealing with a yearly state inspection on all my vehicles.

23 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

well clearly you will disagree as a china shill, but regardless...the police presence everywhere, the unsmiling folks on long ques, the cheap empty apartment buildings everwhere, the extreme poverty, the hostile stares, the rudeness, the sense of quiet desperation, the unfriendliness....

A China shill? Grow up man, I just asked you a question.

I would actually agree with you about unsmiling folks. They are nowhere near as outwardly happy or as boisterous as Thais, they are far more introvert. So on the outside there is a lack of smiles. However, talk to them or get to know them and it's a different story. Work with them and you get to know them and they are the same as anyone.

The rest I disagree. The police are not an issue and are friendly and helpful when you need them and generally you don't even notice them.

Extreme poverty? Nope, that is the United States, not China.

https://www.theglobalcurrents.com/p/china-may-have-fewer-people-living

The rest is probably more to do with your outlook than anything. Same as here, project friendliness outwards and you usually get it back. But overall certainly not as outwardly friendly as Thais for example, not initially.

13 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Extreme poverty? Nope, that is the United States, not China

the homeless in the usa live better.

your response shows you are in fact a shill

19 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

the homeless in the usa live better.

Ah, "our homeless are better than their homeless". That's your comeback? So not disputing that the US has more people in poverty than China? Just that your homeless somehow have it better. Brilliant.

19 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

your response shows you are in fact a shill

How so? I gave my honest pros and cons having lived and worked there over a period of time. And you can't discuss them, just resort to calling me a "shill". You clearly have nothing other than your own blind US loyalty - you can't even discuss points that are presented rationally. I agreed on the non smileyness, they are not outwardly friendly until you make an effort first.

And your response? "Shill". Very grown up, well done. If anything coming back with "but our homeless live better" and thinking America is the greatest makes you a US shill. Yeah, I can do name calling too, it's easy.

Edited Saturday at 04:01 PM3 days by josephbloggs

5 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Ah, "our homeless are better than their homeless". That's your comeback? So not disputing that the US has more people in poverty than China? Just that your homeless somehow have it better. Brilliant.

Using the World bank threshold the poverty rate in China is 15 to 17% (depending of the source) vs 10% in the USA. But in the USA the poverty threshold is $16,320 for a single adult under 65. The 17% rate that I quoted is using a poverty threshold of 6.85/day which is $2500/year.

Edited Saturday at 04:18 PM3 days by TedG

1 hour ago, TedG said:

Using the World bank threshold the poverty rate in China is 15 to 17% (depending of the source) vs 10% in the USA. But in the USA the poverty threshold is $16,320 for a single adult under 65. The 17% rate that I quoted is using a poverty threshold of 6.85/day which is $2500/year.

80% of the chinese poulation lives worse than the poverty line in the usa.

they still poop in the fields.

to deny otherwise is the job of the shills

17 hours ago, jvs said:

I hope you feel a little better now,go clean your guns and don't forget to wear your maga hat! (that was made in China!)

I think it stems from outrage at how China treats Muslim minorities following a series of terrorist outrages involving suicide bombs, knives, axes and small arms.

Wait, wasn't that Israel?