Is it just me, or do others also have the impression that we have an overload of utterly inane and senseless posts right now in the general forum? That is bad enough - but whole threads then taken over by net detectives on troll hunts as well, which makes it even worse trying to post.

I know that presently i have not much of a life - i am underemployed and bored, and have to safe some money, and spend far too much time here, so it's more than a pain in the arse when i open a thread and have to go through dozens of brainless arguments.

No it's not just you. I rarely go there anymore it's full of boneheads and bonehead posts, most the sort of people you would see wandering lost around city centres with a map in their hand and their wallet half way out their back pocket. I sometimes feel compelled to post a reply but then I never actually hit send. It's more trouble than it's worth.

I'm sure you would like to get into some indepth conversation sometimes, but there doesn't seem to be a place on TV to do it and Bedlam is just a refuge away from the realities of the world so serious issues go down like a lead balloon.

Turn the 'pewtah off and grab yourself a good book, I've just started reading Crete by Anthony Beevor he's a fantastic writer.

Inane posts..

Never heard of em

D0nt be so poncy, oh so high and mighty, we try

Moss . howza boo boo? Mara is that his name?

troll hunts as well, which makes it even worse trying to post.

No it's not just you. I rarely go there anymore

I too rarely go into the general forum, believing it is a Troll infested water, but there you go , Horses for courses and all that.

I've just started reading Crete by Anthony Beevor he's a fantastic writer.

He most certainly is Robbo, I read, 'Stalingrad', by him, a truly awesome book, epitomising what men will do, when courage beyond reason meets unrelenting idealism, the original meaning of the term, 'hel_l's Kitchen', and the, ' Meat Grinder', I believe, absolutely unbelievable!

If you like this Rob, take a look at Cornelius Ryan's , A Bridge too Far', the best book I have ever read, apart from a Tale of two cities or Jude the Obscure of course.

You might also want to take a look at, Black Hawk Down, I believe also by Beavor, but can't quite remember now and presently there is a new book out, recalling in detail the British and French forces that stood their ground so the rest of the BEF could escape, that will be my next book.

Is the 'Crete', book about the German invasion of Crete using Paratroopers led by Student, the first real deployment of Paratroopers to hold and secure an objective instead of just a support mechanism for regular armies? As an add on, Student was completely in awe of the Allied Paratroop landings for the Arnhem battle and I believe, his strategy and use of the Paratroop shock attack was severely curtailed, after what was thought a poorly executed plan, after the Crete Landings.

Moss

Whoops, buggered up my multi quote again, my comments for what they are worth, in Bold

Probably due to the quality level of the current backpacker crop roaming Thailand.

Perhaps those travel guides they read should suggest they post less air-head topics?

I am not a backpaker. I am am rather mediote 44 yearold

Probably due to the quality level of the current backpacker crop roaming Thailand.

Perhaps those travel guides they read should suggest they post less air-head topics?

Don't mock backpackers.

The problem though is that in Thailand you'll rarely come across proper ones - it's mostly gap year students treating the lonely planet as a bible.

No it's not just you. I rarely go there anymore it's full of boneheads and bonehead posts, most the sort of people you would see wandering lost around city centres with a map in their hand and their wallet half way out their back pocket. I sometimes feel compelled to post a reply but then I never actually hit send. It's more trouble than it's worth.

I'm sure you would like to get into some indepth conversation sometimes, but there doesn't seem to be a place on TV to do it and Bedlam is just a refuge away from the realities of the world so serious issues go down like a lead balloon.

Turn the 'pewtah off and grab yourself a good book, I've just started reading Crete by Anthony Beevor he's a fantastic writer.

I looked the book up, sounds interesting.

Usually though when i read about WW2 i read books from people who have been there and done it. I grew up with all the stories of WW2 - both my mum and my dad lived through all of it from being children to their youth, and it shaped their lives. Especially my mum being thrown all over Europe in those days, and that after her parents lost already once everything in the Russian revolution. I think at the end of the war my Mum had only three members of her family still alive.

Many of my granduncles and grandaunts lived through both - WW1 and WW2.

Anyhow, there are many topics that would inspire some challenging conversation, but it is almost automatically destroyed by some of the most idiotic comments i have read in a long time here.

I think there are just times that there are not threads on the general forum that are worth my replay.

But i still think that it is very interesting to see there are a huge range of opinions about a certain topic...however most of the time threads end up being silly and not so much interesting any more...

nvm inane posts, wut about inane people in general (or at least people who ask inane questions)!!

A random chit chat in passing with an expat here led him to query what food I eat due to the fact im Scottish. Wondered how i cope with food here seeing as Scots people are same as the English in that they have a"meat and two veg" diet (one of a few inane questions imo). Nvm the fact that I grew up in an Italian family (but granted he doesnt know that), nvm that even if i didnt British ppl DO have access to other food than "meat and two veg", nvm that I have lived in other countries and continents since i was 16 (but cors he doesnt know that), nvm the fact im veggi (which cors he doesnt know either), but well...i suppose i just found it remarkable that ppl expect you only eat food which is "traditional" to your country. (Which, in that case i would be eating "haggis and black pudding" not "meat and two veg" but nvm.) Talk about freakin presumptious. Why do some people also believe that Thailand is the only place a person has lived in?? I swear some people move to a country, but yet still dont broaden their mind.

All i could do is blink a few times in disbelief and mutter that I enjoy many different kinds of food. Thankfully I was able to leave soon after before any further inane prodding took place.

We could do with a rant smiley btw..

Oh well

nvm inane posts, wut about inane people in general (or at least people who ask inane questions)!!

A random chit chat in passing with an expat here led him to query what food I eat due to the fact im Scottish. Wondered how i cope with food here seeing as Scots people are same as the English in that they have a"meat and two veg" diet (one of a few inane questions imo). Nvm the fact that I grew up in an Italian family (but granted he doesnt know that), nvm that even if i didnt British ppl DO have access to other food than "meat and two veg", nvm that I have lived in other countries and continents since i was 16 (but cors he doesnt know that), nvm the fact im veggi (which cors he doesnt know either), but well...i suppose i just found it remarkable that ppl expect you only eat food which is "traditional" to your country. (Which, in that case i would be eating "haggis and black pudding" I disagree you will be eating haggis, black pudding a deep fried mars bars... just joking...i lived in Scotland for nearly 7 years and i have always found amusing that little treat of yours....

If we did away with inane posts, it would take away at least half of the posts on TV and Bedlam would pretty much disappear.

However, I do agree that lately it has gotten worse. At times I think about adding a reply but , why bother. Big sighs all around.

Probably due to the quality level of the current backpacker crop roaming Thailand.

Perhaps those travel guides they read should suggest they post less air-head topics?

Don't mock backpackers.

The problem though is that in Thailand you'll rarely come across proper ones - it's mostly gap year students treating the lonely planet as a bible.

Never a truer word said (about the "general travelling population" at the moment)

General does go on and off! Sometimes it's on, sometimes it's off!

Check it out now and then and you might see something of interest!

Probably due to the quality level of the current backpacker crop roaming Thailand.

Perhaps those travel guides they read should suggest they post less air-head topics?

Don't mock backpackers.

The problem though is that in Thailand you'll rarely come across proper ones - it's mostly gap year students treating the lonely planet as a bible.

Never a truer word said (about the "general travelling population" at the moment)

That was true already 20 years ago when i was a young backpacker. Thailand was mostly just good for visas, and it was just there in the way of the more interesting places, had to pass through the place once every few months on the way from here to there.

Shit, now i start feeling old...

You are not the only one................

troll hunts as well, which makes it even worse trying to post.

No it's not just you. I rarely go there anymore

I too rarely go into the general forum, believing it is a Troll infested water, but there you go , Horses for courses and all that.

I've just started reading Crete by Anthony Beevor he's a fantastic writer.

He most certainly is Robbo, I read, 'Stalingrad', by him, a truly awesome book, epitomising what men will do, when courage beyond reason meets unrelenting idealism, the original meaning of the term, 'hel_l's Kitchen', and the, ' Meat Grinder', I believe, absolutely unbelievable!

If you like this Rob, take a look at Cornelius Ryan's , A Bridge too Far', the best book I have ever read, apart from a Tale of two cities or Jude the Obscure of course.

You might also want to take a look at, Black Hawk Down, I believe also by Beavor, but can't quite remember now and presently there is a new book out, recalling in detail the British and French forces that stood their ground so the rest of the BEF could escape, that will be my next book.

Is the 'Crete', book about the German invasion of Crete using Paratroopers led by Student, the first real deployment of Paratroopers to hold and secure an objective instead of just a support mechanism for regular armies? As an add on, Student was completely in awe of the Allied Paratroop landings for the Arnhem battle and I believe, his strategy and use of the Paratroop shock attack was severely curtailed, after what was thought a poorly executed plan, after the Crete Landings.

Moss

Whoops, buggered up my multi quote again, my comments for what they are worth, in Bold

I also read the Blackhawk Down book (before the movie was made -which was done very I thought) and yes he has a great writing style I hadn't heard of the other books (in fact never thought to look into his works more) but will do so now, thanks!

Actually Blackhawk Down was written by Mark Bowden.

Anthony Beevor is one of the best military historians alive, for his books Stalingrad and Berlin he was able to research Soviet archives to get a complete picture of those battles, something that was previously impossible to do, by wriiting from first hand accounts as well as general historical data, he really gives you a feel of the desperation and heroism of the situations for both soldiers and civillians as well as the gravity of the wider implications.

My favorite book by him is his account of the Spanish Civil War, a very sad tale indeed that shows how rival ideologies, Fascist, Communist and Western Conservatives colluded to crush individual freedom, a dark moment of our history that is hardly ever examined because I think It brings into question the history of WWII and the second half of the 20th century, indeed Spain is only just starting to come to terms with it's past now, 70 years later. Heavy, heavy shit.

If you want a true account of war on the Eastern Front and a testament to human endurance read 'The Forgotten Soldier' by Guy Sajer, his insightful memoirs are truly haunting.

Don't forget to read something happy after though....

Sorry for dragging this war fiction thread off topic but this topic might serve as a reminder for those of you packing for your hols.

I always forget to pack something but this poor lad was faced by a total crisis.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=140720&hl=

Crisps get crushed in your suitcase, FS.

Patsy, luv, were you on the voddie again? :D

Is it just me, or do others also have the impression that we have an overload of utterly inane and senseless posts right now in the general forum?

it's not only you, I can assure you!

Sorry for dragging this war fiction thread off topic but this topic might serve as a reminder for those of you packing for your hols.

I always forget to pack something but this poor lad was faced by a total crisis.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=140720&hl=

I really did expect to read some kind of tragidy. Talk about gullable lol (me). You lined it up well!

Is it just me, or do others also have the impression that we have an overload of utterly inane and senseless posts right now in the general forum?

it's not only you, I can assure you!

At least that means i am not going insane.

You might also want to take a look at, Black Hawk Down, I believe also by Beavor, but can't quite remember now

I also read the Blackhawk Down book (before the movie was made -which was done very I thought) and yes he has a great writing style I hadn't heard of the other books (in fact never thought to look into his works more) but will do so now, thanks!

Thrown you a curved ball there Quicky, Robbo is of course right, it was MB who wrote it, but as the book was at work, I did say I couldn't quite recall.

I also read this some years ago, before the film, saw it in Blackwell's and said to my split self, to the intelligent other intelligent persona, ' I remember that incident', so bought it, very good book.

Actually Blackhawk Down was written by Mark Bowden.

Yep, agree with that.

Moss

Yes November Rain - mea culpa - i was back on the voddie train but have dropped off big time, cos tomorrow getting cat ladder

This article was written by George Orwell and is still food for thought 70 years after it was published.

Work : Essays : Spilling the Spanish Beans

form New English Weekly, (29 July and 2 September 1937)

The Spanish war has probably produced a richer crop of lies than any event since the Great War of

1914-18, but I honestly doubt, in spite of all those hecatombs of nuns who have been raped and

crucified before the eyes of Daily Mail reporters, whether it is the pro-Fascist newspapers that have

done the most harm. It is the left-wing papers, the News Chronicle and the Daily Worker, with their

far subtler methods of distortion, that have prevented the British public from grasping the real

nature of the struggle

The fact which these papers have so carefully obscured is that the Spanish Government (including

the semi-autonomous Catalan Government) is far more afraid of the revolution than of the Fascists.

It is now almost certain that the war will end with some kind of compromise, and there is even

reason to doubt whether the Government, which let Bilbao fail without raising a finger, wishes to be

too victorious; but there is no doubt whatever about the thoroughness with which it is crushing its

own revolutionaries. For some time past a reign of terror – forcible suppression of political parties,

a stifling censorship of the press, ceaseless espionage and mass imprisonment without trial – has

been in progress. When I left Barcelona in late June the jails were bulging; indeed, the regular jails

had long since overflowed and the prisoners were being huddled into empty shops and any other

temporary dump that could be found for them. But the point to notice is that the people who are in

prison now are not Fascists but revolutionaries; they are there not because their opinions are too

much to the Right, but because they are too much to the Left. And the people responsible for

putting them there are those dreadful revolutionaries at whose very name Garvin quakes in his

galoshes – the Communists.

Meanwhile the war against Franco continues, but, except for the poor devils in the front-line

trenches, nobody in Government Spain thinks of it as the real war. The real struggle is between

revolution and counter-revolution; between the workers who are vainly trying to hold on to a little

of what they won in 1936, and the Liberal-Communist bloc who are so successfully taking it away

from them. It is unfortunate that so few people in England have yet caught up with the fact that

Communism is now a counter-revolutionary force; that Communists everywhere are in alliance

with bourgeois reformism and using the whole of their powerful machinery to crush or discredit any

party that shows signs of revolutionary tendencies. Hence the grotesque spectacle of Communists

assailed as wicked ‘Reds’ by right-wing intellectuals who are in essential agreement with them. Mr

Wyndham Lewis, for instance, ought to love the Communists, at least temporarily. In Spain the

Communist-Liberal alliance has been almost completely victorious. Of all that the Spanish workers

won for themselves in 1936 nothing solid remains, except for a few collective farms and a certain

amount of land seized by the peasants last year; and presumably even the peasants will be sacrificed

later, when there is no longer any need to placate them. To see how the present situation arose, one

has got to look back to the origins of the civil war.

Franco’s bid for power differed from those of Hitler and Mussolini in that it was a military

insurrection, comparable to a foreign invasion, and therefore had not much mass backing, though

Franco has since been trying to acquire one. Its chief supporters, apart from certain sections of Big

Business, were the land-owning aristocracy and the huge, parasitic Church. Obviously a rising of

this kind will array against it various forces which are not in agreement on any other point. The

peasant and the worker hate feudalism and clericalism; but so does the ‘liberal’ bourgeois, who is

not in the least opposed to a more modern version of Fascism, at least so long as it isn’t called

Fascism. The ‘liberal’ bourgeois is genuinely liberal up to the point where his own interests stop.

He stands for the degree of progress implied in the phrase ‘la carrière ouverte aux talents’. For

clearly he has no chance to develop in a feudal society where the worker and the peasant are too

poor to buy goods, where industry is burdened with huge taxes to pay for bishops’ vestments, and

where every lucrative job is given as a matter of course to the friend of the catamite of the duke’s

illegitimate son. Hence, in the face of such a blatant reactionary as Franco, you get for a while a

situation in which the worker and the bourgeois, in reality deadly enemies, are fighting side by side.

This uneasy alliance is known as the Popular Front (or, in the Communist press, to give it a

spuriously democratic appeal, People’s Front). It is a combination with about as much vitality, and

about as much right to exist, as a pig with two heads or some other Barnum and Bailey monstrosity.

In any serious emergency the contradiction implied in the Popular Front is bound to make itself felt.

For even when the worker and the bourgeois are both fighting against Fascism, they are not fighting

for the same things; the bourgeois is fighting for bourgeois democracy, i.e. capitalism, the worker,

in so far as he understands the issue, for Socialism. And in the early days of the revolution the

Spanish workers understood the issue very well. In the areas where Fascism was defeated they did

not content themselves with driving the rebellious troops out of the towns; they also took the

opportunity of seizing land and factories and setting up the rough beginnings of a workers’

government by means of local committees, workers’ militias, police forces, and so forth. They made

the mistake, however (possibly because most of the active revolutionaries were Anarchists with a

mistrust of all parliaments), of leaving the Republican Government in nominal control. And, in spite

of various changes in personnel, every subsequent Government had been of approximately the same

bourgeois-reformist character. At the beginning this seemed not to matter, because the Government,

especially in Catalonia, was almost powerless and the bourgeoisie had to lie low or even (this was

still happening when I reached Spain in December) to disguise themselves as workers. Later, as

power slipped from the hands of the Anarchists into the hands of the Communists and right-wing

Socialists, the Government was able to reassert itself, the bourgeoisie came out of hiding and the

old division of society into rich and poor reappeared, not much modified. Henceforward every

move, except a few dictated by military emergency, was directed towards undoing the work of the

first few months of revolution. Out of the many illustrations I could choose, I will cite only one, the

breaking-up of the old workers’ militias, which were organized on a genuinely democratic system,

with officers and men receiving the same pay and mingling on terms of complete equality, and the

substitution of the Popular Army (once again, in Communist jargon, ‘People’s Army’), modelled as

far as possible on an ordinary bourgeois army, with a privileged officer-caste, immense differences

of pay, etc. etc. Needless to say, this is given out as a military necessity, and almost certainly it does

make for military efficiency, at least for a short period. But the undoubted purpose of the change

was to strike a blow at equalitarianism. In every department the same policy has been followed,

with the result that only a year after the outbreak of war and revolution you get what is in effect an

ordinary bourgeois State, with, in addition, a reign of terror to preserve the status quo.

This process would probably have gone less far if the struggle could have taken place without

foreign interference. But the military weakness of the Government made this impossible. In the face

of France’s foreign mercenaries they were obliged to turn to Russia for help, and though the

quantity of arms sup- plied by Russia has been greatly exaggerated (in my first three months in

Spain I saw only one Russian weapon, a solitary machine-gun), the mere fact of their arrival

brought the Communists into power. To begin with, the Russian aeroplanes and guns, and the good

military qualities of the international Brigades (not necessarily Communist but under Communist

control), immensely raised the Communist prestige. But, more important, since Russia and Mexico

were the only countries openly supplying arms, the Russians were able not only to get money for

their weapons, but to extort terms as well. Put in their crudest form, the terms were: ‘Crush the

revolution or you get no more arms.’ The reason usually given for the Russian attitude is that if

Russia appeared to be abetting the revolution, the Franco-Soviet pact (and the hoped-for alliance

with Great Britain) would be imperilled; it may be, also, that the spectacle of a genuine revolution

in Spain would rouse unwanted echoes in Russia. The Communists, of course, deny that any direct

pressure has been exerted by the Russian Government. But this, even if true, is hardly relevant, for

the Communist Parties of all countries can be taken as carrying out Russian policy; and it is certain

that the Spanish Communist Party, plus the right-wing Socialists whom they control, plus the

Communist press of the whole world, have used all their immense and ever-increasing influence

upon the side of counter-revolution.

In the first half of this article I suggested that the real struggle in Spain, on the Government side,

has been between revolution and counter-revolution; that the Government, though anxious enough

to avoid being beaten by Franco, has been even more anxious to undo the revolutionary changes

with which the outbreak of war was accompanied.

Any Communist would reject this suggestion as mistaken or wilfully dishonest. He would tell you

that it is nonsense to talk of the Spanish Government crushing the revolution, because the

revolution never happened; and that our job at present is to defeat Fascism and defend democracy.

And in this connexion it is most important to see just how the Communist anti-revolutionary

propaganda works. It is a mistake to think that this has no relevance in England, where the

Communist Party is small and comparatively weak. We shall see its relevance quickly enough if

England enters into an alliance with the U.S.S.R.; or perhaps even earlier, for the influence of the

Communist Party is bound to increase – visibly is increasing – as more and more of the capitalist

class realize that latter-day Communism is playing their game.

Broadly speaking, Communist propaganda depends upon terrifying people with the (quite real)

horrors of Fascism. It also involves pretending – not in so many words, but by implication – that

Fascism has nothing to do with capitalism. Fascism is just a kind of meaningless wickedness, an

aberration, ‘mass sadism’, the sort of thing that would happen if you suddenly let loose an

asylumful of homicidal maniacs. Present Fascism in this form, and you can mobilize public opinion

against it, at any rate for a while, without provoking any revolutionary movement. You can oppose

Fascism by bourgeois ‘democracy, meaning capitalism. But meanwhile you have got to get rid of

the troublesome person who points out that Fascism and bourgeois ‘democracy’ are Tweedledum

and Tweedledee. You do it at the beginning by calling him an impracticable visionary. You tell him

that he is confusing the issue, that he is splitting the anti-Fascist forces, that this is not the moment

for revolutionary phrase-mongering, that for the moment we have got to fight against Fascism

without inquiring too closely what we are fighting for. Later, if he still refuses to shut up, you

change your tune and call him a traitor. More exactly, you call him a Trotskyist.

And what is a Trotskyist? This terrible word – in Spain at this moment you can be thrown into jail

and kept there indefinitely, without trial, on the mere rumour that you are a Trotskyist – is only

beginning to be bandied to and fro in England. We shall be hearing more of it later. The word

‘Trotskyist’ (or ‘Trotsky-Fascist’) is generally used to mean a disguised Fascist who poses as an

ultra-revolutionary in order to split the left-wing forces. But it derives its peculiar power from the

fact that it means three separate things. It can mean one who, like Trotsky, wished for world

revolution; or a member of the actual organization of which Trotsky is head (the only legitimate use

of the word); or the disguised Fascist already mentioned. The three meanings can be telescoped one

into the other at will. Meaning No. 1 may or may not carry with it meaning No. 2, and meaning No.

2 almost invariably carries with it meaning No. 3. Thus: ‘XY has been heard to speak favourably of

world revolution; therefore he is a Trotskyist; therefore he is a Fascist.’ In Spain, to some extent

even in England, anyone professing revolutionary Socialism (i.e. professing the things the

Communist Party professed until a few years ago) is under suspicion of being a Trotskyist in the

pay of Franco or Hitler.

The accusation is a very subtle one, because in any given case, unless one happened to know the

contrary, it might be true. A Fascist spy probably would disguise himself as a revolutionary. In

Spain, everyone whose opinions are to the Left of those of the Communist Party is sooner or later

discovered to be a Trotskyist or, at least, a traitor. At the beginning of the war the P.O.U.M., an

opposition Communist party roughly corresponding to the English I.L.P., was an accepted party and

supplied a minister to the Catalan Government, later it was expelled from the Government; then it

was denounced as Trotskyist; then it was suppressed, every member that the police could lay their

hands on being flung into jail.

Until a few months ago the Anarcho-Syndicalists were described as ‘working loyally’ beside the

Communists. Then the Anarcho-Syndicalists were levered out of the Government; then it appeared

that they were not working so loyally; now they are in the process of becoming traitors. After that

will come the turn of the left-wing Socialists. Caballero, the left-wing Socialist ex-premier, until

May 1937 the idol of the Communist press, is already in outer darkness, a Trotskyist and ‘enemy of

the people’. And so the game continues. The logical end is a régime in which every opposition party

and newspaper is suppressed and every dissentient of any importance is in jail. Of course, such a

régime will be Fascism. It will not be the same as the fascism Franco would impose, it will even be

better than Franco’s fascism to the extent of being worth fighting for, but it will be Fascism. Only,

being operated by Communists and Liberals, it will be called something different.

Meanwhile, can the war be won? The Communist influence has been against revolutionary chaos

and has therefore, apart from the Russian aid, tended to produce greater military efficiency. If the

Anarchists saved the Government from August to October 1936, the Communists have saved it

from October onwards. But in organizing the defence they have succeeded in killing enthusiasm

(inside Spain, not outside). They made a militarized conscript army possible, but they also made it

necessary. It is significant that as early as January of this year voluntary recruiting had practically

ceased. A revolutionary army can sometimes win by enthusiasm, but a conscript army has got to

win with weapons, and it is unlikely that the Government will ever have a large preponderance of

arms unless France intervenes or unless Germany and Italy decide to make off with the Spanish

colonies and leave Franco in the lurch. On the whole, a deadlock seems the likeliest thing.

And does the Government seriously intend to win? It does not intend to lose, that is certain. On the

other hand, an outright victory, with Franco in flight and the Germans and Italians driven into the

sea, would raise difficult problems, some of them too obvious to need mentioning. There is no real

evidence and one can only judge by the event, but I suspect that what the Government is playing for

is a compromise that would leave the war situation essentially in being. All prophecies are wrong,

therefore this one will be wrong, but I will take a chance and say that though the war may end quite

soon or may drag on for years, it will end with Spain divided up, either by actual frontiers or into

economic zones. Of course, such a compromise might be claimed as a victory by either side, or by

both.

All that I have said in this article would seem entirely commonplace in Spain, or even in France.

Yet in England, in spite of the intense interest the Spanish war has aroused, there are very few

people who have even heard of the enormous struggle that is going on behind the Government lines.

Of course, this is no accident. There has been a quite deliberate conspiracy (I could give detailed

instances) to prevent the Spanish situation from being understood. People who ought to know better

have lent themselves to the deception on the ground that if you tell the truth about Spain it will be

used as Fascist propaganda.

It is easy to see where such cowardice leads. If the British public had been given a truthful account

of the Spanish war they would have had an opportunity of learning what Fascism is and how it can

be combated. As it is, the News Chronicle version of Fascism as a kind of homicidal mania peculiar

to Colonel Blimps bombinating in the economic void has been established more firmly than ever.

And thus we are one step nearer to the great war ‘against Fascism’ (cf. 1914, ‘against militarism’)

which will allow Fascism, British variety, to be slipped over our necks during the first week.

This article was written by George Orwell and is still food for thought 70 years after it was published.

The Spanish war has probably produced a richer crop of lies than any event since the Great War of

1914-18

Yes, one of the biggest of which lies is the nonsense Orwell himself wrote about his exploits in the war in Homage to Catalonia, most of which has been proven to be a work of fiction, not autobiography.

A great literary lie, rather like Alex Haley's Roots.

Sure Bendix.

Is that all you managed to extrapolate from the article that Orwell was a liar, ah well lets discredit his contribution to history then.

You quoted the first two sentences, I wonder if you read the article at all.

Which part pissed you off most? the fact that it was written by Orwell, the claim that the Spanish Civil war was a web of lies,

or that the issues raised were beyond your comprehension?

The title of this thread is 'inane posts' so I guess you managed that part ok.

This is the "Inane" thread isn't it ?

Good , because I had some inane political b*ll*cks I wanted to post somewhere.

I can't find the paper I wrote it down on but I'll be back.