Cambodian Girlfriend

[daryl]

Hi All

My Girlfriend was born in Cambodia but fled with her Mother to Thailand when she was about 10 years old. She has lived in Thailand for about 12 years with her mother and Mums Thai partner (they are not married). My girlfriend has not been naturalised and therefore is living illegally in Thailand.

I want her to get a passport so she can visit me. I believe she can obtain a cambodian passport but then we have the problem with getting Thai visa's for her to stay in Thailand with her mother.

Is there anyway she can get a Thai passport or Thai identity card? Any other solutions for using cambodian passport to travel from/to Thailand without the visa grief?

Any help or advise much appreciated.

thanks

Daryl

[incubus]

Let's see...12 years ago? That's 1995 or thereabout. That was probably the quietest, safest period Cambodia has known since before the Khmer Rouge took power. Ranariddh was still First Prime Minister, Hun Sen hadn't made his power grab yet, there were no significant civil conflicts ongoing, the rump Khmer Rouge were laying low and discussing mass surrender to the government. All the refugee camps were closed down. What could have driven this woman with her daughter to "flee" to Thailand, if not economic opportunism? This is just to say that they have "zero" chance to be considered refugees and to claim asylum on this basis.

So they really are just illegal immigrants who have lived in Thailand illegally for 12 years. The daughter is now about 22 y. o., so she wouldn't be considered a "dependent", even if her mother married her partner. Did she attend public school here? Is she still a student?

Seems to me her only option is to seek a Cambodian ppt and to return to Cambodia, then apply for a visa, like any other Cambodian. If she can get herself sponsored by a Thai employer, she may get a work visa & permit. Or she could marry a Thai and never have any Thai visa problems ever again. What sort of documentation does she have? Birth certificate? Family book? Anything that might establish her identity and or origin? What province did they live in before? Is the mother divorced? Widowed? Any documentation?

Trying to help, but it seems difficult.

Incubus

Edited September 18, 2007 by incubus

[asiaworld]

Unfortunately Thailand is waay to xenophobic to allow any neighbouring peoples to naturalise here, this is why all they can live with here is semilegal/illegal status.. Btw, where in Thailand does she lives ?. Because if a cambodian citizen rsides in the provinces that border Thailand, they are sort of entitled to the border apss, which allows them to visit border areas of Thailand regularly.. But on the other hand she's probably happier here as she is.. Think you'll do more damage trying to legalise here, & get her to start new life back in Cambo. . Another consern is after here living here illegaly, i'm not sure how welcoming thailand will be to her ever visiting here again legally, unfortunately Cambodians still require visas even for short visits to Thailand.

[cali4995]

Daryl, I knew a Cambodian girl in a very similar situation.

She'd been here for several years working illegally,

basically assimilated herself into a village out in Issan.

Somehow, she stumbled onto this guy from Norway. He was

anxious to try and help her but of course she had no

documents whatsoever.Her Thai friends assured her that for

the right amount of baht, they could get her an identity card.

Well, we all know how this ends.They essentially cheated her

out of 60-70k baht, which really troubled me because for

most of her life this girl had little more than the clothes

she was wearing. Truly a good soul, I guess that comes from

enduring so many hardships. Anyway in the end she went back to

Cambodia and got her passport as she probably should have done

in the first place. As far as I know, the story had a happy

ending. Extract what meaning from that you can.

[daryl]

Just to clarify, she attended a Thai public school for about 4-5 years after she first arrived in Thailand (I am not sure of the village). i don't think she has a birth certificate or the like but there must be records of her attending Thai school.

She did have a "proper" Thai IC card that she obtained for 20k baht but somehow that got voided by the same "dodgy" official who issued it to her.

One option is for her to return to Cambodia covertly and apply for passport and multi entry Thai visa but I think it can be quite dificult to obtain this visa as she will need to provide details of income, funds etc. Additionally she will only be able to enter Thailand for 30 days at a time after that she will need to return to Cambodia.

I am aware that in trying to obtain Thai IC or Cambodian passport for her that I may be making things worse for her in the long run, that is why I am looking at all possible avenues including legal advice.

She has had a hard life for such a young girl - I just want to help provide some security for her and build on our relationship.

Thanks to all for your helpful replies.

Daryl

[cali4995]

Daryl, the fact is she is Cambodian. Nothing is going to change that. Her

name isn't on a Tabien Bahn anywhere, and it never will be. These dodgy

officials will offer to help, and then change the terms of the deal. To them,

You, I, and Her are an occupying force, unwanted invaders. The normal

moral boundaries of right and wrong don't have to apply. I don't think

helping her get authentic identification documents from her country of

origin is going to make her life any more difficult. At present, she looks to

be at risk of getting deported. All it would take was one displeased Thai

to make a stink about her not having an I.D. card, and that could happen.

At the Aranyaprathet/Poi-pet border crossing there is a huge open market.

Hundreds if not thousands of Cambodians cross over daily without any

immigration controls. There is such a large military presense in the area, it

would be difficult for them to go much further. Soldiers do board buses

coming/going from this area with the specific objective of searching for

illegal Cambodians. All I can tell you, is that a well presented/nicely dressed

lady not travelling alone, but in the company of a farang, is unlikely to be

questioned. That's the rumor, from what I've heard. Good luck.

[incubus]

Daryl, the fact is she is Cambodian. Nothing is going to change that. Her

name isn't on a Tabien Bahn anywhere, and it never will be. These dodgy

officials will offer to help, and then change the terms of the deal. To them,

You, I, and Her are an occupying force, unwanted invaders. The normal

moral boundaries of right and wrong don't have to apply. I don't think

helping her get authentic identification documents from her country of

origin is going to make her life any more difficult. At present, she looks to

be at risk of getting deported. All it would take was one displeased Thai

to make a stink about her not having an I.D. card, and that could happen.

At the Aranyaprathet/Poi-pet border crossing there is a huge open market.

Hundreds if not thousands of Cambodians cross over daily without any

immigration controls. There is such a large military presense in the area, it

would be difficult for them to go much further. Soldiers do board buses

coming/going from this area with the specific objective of searching for

illegal Cambodians. All I can tell you, is that a well presented/nicely dressed

lady not travelling alone, but in the company of a farang, is unlikely to be

questioned. That's the rumor, from what I've heard. Good luck.

Cali, I think you're wrong. You say you "...don't think helping her get authentic identification documents from her country of origin is going to make her life any more difficult." Is her life so difficult at present? Daryl gave no indications that she was having a rough time here. Of course it's inconvenient to be an illegal alien, but there are benefits, too. Obviously, since she's dealt with the situation for 12 years. There's little doubt that she's better off in Thailand than "back home".

The problem isn't for her to get to Cambodia. The problem will be for her to come back legitimately, and as long as that's not figured out, she'd be flushing her present life down the drain.

And don't think it's easy for an undocumented Cambodian to obtain a ppt either in Bkk or in PPN. And don't think it'll be cheap, even if she has all the usually required documents. And don't think it'll be a breeze for her to get a Thai visa, much less a residence or work permit.

Slipping through the border may seem easy if you're dressed like a day-merchant, but these are all known faces to the border guards. There must be hundreds of disillusioned Cambodians who attempt to cross the border into Thailand every day, by whatever means they think may work. Some have legit documents, some fake, some none. Some try to bluff their way through, some try to slip in unseen. The border guards are experts at spotting these attempts. They can be bribed, sure, but even that's not as easy as it's made out to be. Too much is at stake for such a desperate move.

In short, I think the best advice for the girl is to stay the way she is, unless she has guarantees that any step she takes will definitely improve her life. Daryl, don't do her any favors you can't see through to the end. She's much more likely to end up in a worse position than she's in now if you shake her tree but are unwilling to catch her when she falls.

Incubus

[solo siam]

Get her to marry Somchai from the village, give him 20k baht and get her a Thai passport.

[incubus]

Get her to marry Somchai from the village, give him 20k baht and get her a Thai passport.

You got it, Solo Siam!

Edited September 19, 2007 by incubus

[mikethevigoman]

Hi All

My Girlfriend was born in Cambodia but fled with her Mother to Thailand when she was about 10 years old. She has lived in Thailand for about 12 years with her mother and Mums Thai partner (they are not married). My girlfriend has not been naturalised and therefore is living illegally in Thailand.

I want her to get a passport so she can visit me. I believe she can obtain a cambodian passport but then we have the problem with getting Thai visa's for her to stay in Thailand with her mother.

Is there anyway she can get a Thai passport or Thai identity card? Any other solutions for using cambodian passport to travel from/to Thailand without the visa grief?

Any help or advise much appreciated.

thanks

Daryl

I have as friend in cambodia with 2 businesses ,his visa application was rejected twice to the uk, not easy for a kymer to travel im afraid,

[Maestro]

Cali, I think you're wrong. You say you "...don't think helping her get authentic identification documents from her country of origin is going to make her life any more difficult." Is her life so difficult at present?...

I think you overlooked the fact that Daryl wants his girlfriend to get a passport so that she can visit him in his home country. Daryl said “...visit me...” and from the context of his post I gather that he is outside Thailand.

--

Maestro

[incubus]

Cali, I think you're wrong. You say you "...don't think helping her get authentic identification documents from her country of origin is going to make her life any more difficult." Is her life so difficult at present?...

I think you overlooked the fact that Daryl wants his girlfriend to get a passport so that she can visit him in his home country. Daryl said “...visit me...” and from the context of his post I gather that he is outside Thailand.

--

Maestro

I didn't overlook that fact, Cali, that's precisely what I was addressing in my post: that Daryl should not recklessly push this girl to take any drastic steps that are likely to destroy her status quo and leave her stranded, unless he is determined to take full responsibility for her, which he has not indicated he's willing to do.

Incubus

[daryl]

Thanks for all your replies.

I would like to address a few of the comments made:

1) I am not recklessly pushing her to do anything. It is something we both want to do and that is why I am taking the time to look at this from all angles to see which is the best way forward, if any.

2) I mentioned in an earlier posting that I am aware that any action may make things worse for her. If that looks the case, then we shall not pursue this any further at this stage in our relationship.

3) I am not in Thailand but currently living in Malaysia.

4) I have absolutely no intention of leaving her stranded or worse off.

5) I am not concerned about the cost or time it will take to do whatever we need to do.

At present I am thinking off taking her to Cambodia and applying for a ppt and Thai multi-entry visa then taking her to Malaysia for a visit. On her return to Thailand she can arrange for someone to take her passport to Cambodia getting a exit stamp on the way out then having ppt returned to her in Thailand.

FYI - She tells me her mother regularly makes trips to Cambodia from Thailand without a passport so they obviously have a way of doing this without getting caught.

I have yet to find out what documentation is required when applying for a Cam. ppt - any guidance on this would be great. Apparently, a fast track application takes one week and around US$250.

Any more advice/comments greatly appreciated.

cheers

Daryl

[incubus]

Thanks for all your replies.

I would like to address a few of the comments made:

1) I am not recklessly pushing her to do anything. It is something we both want to do and that is why I am taking the time to look at this from all angles to see which is the best way forward, if any.

2) I mentioned in an earlier posting that I am aware that any action may make things worse for her. If that looks the case, then we shall not pursue this any further at this stage in our relationship.

3) I am not in Thailand but currently living in Malaysia.

4) I have absolutely no intention of leaving her stranded or worse off.

5) I am not concerned about the cost or time it will take to do whatever we need to do.

At present I am thinking off taking her to Cambodia and applying for a ppt and Thai multi-entry visa then taking her to Malaysia for a visit. On her return to Thailand she can arrange for someone to take her passport to Cambodia getting a exit stamp on the way out then having ppt returned to her in Thailand.

FYI - She tells me her mother regularly makes trips to Cambodia from Thailand without a passport so they obviously have a way of doing this without getting caught.

I have yet to find out what documentation is required when applying for a Cam. ppt - any guidance on this would be great. Apparently, a fast track application takes one week and around US$250.

Any more advice/comments greatly appreciated.

cheers

Daryl

What documentation is required when applying for a Cam. ppt?

The main document is the family book. If her mother has this, everything will be (relatively) easy. Her mother should accompany her, as she will have to sign a document stating that she agrees to let her child apply for a ppt. If there is no family book, it gets extremely complicated and difficult. If you want details, you can PM me. Also, your girl can talk to my wife who's Cambodian living in Thailand and recently got a new KH ppt. She also knows someone at the ppt office in PP.

Incubus

[asiaworld]

he he Daryl, well if they can sneak into Cambo & back , no prob just let 'em do it ,, Btw are you malaysian ?!? Coz if yes, than VERY easy ! U can either give her funds 2 get Ppt.. or hop on Airasia flight to either Phnom Penh, or Siem Riep & meet'em .Same if you want her to visit you >Cambo. passp. no need visa for M'sia, or S'pore.. So just hop on Airasia or jetstar(best if together) & she'll be there in no time:)

[RJJ]

What documentation is required when applying for a Cam. ppt?

The main document is the family book. If her mother has this, everything will be (relatively) easy. Her mother should accompany her, as she will have to sign a document stating that she agrees to let her child apply for a ppt. If there is no family book, it gets extremely complicated and difficult. If you want details, you can PM me. Also, your girl can talk to my wife who's Cambodian living in Thailand and recently got a new KH ppt. She also knows someone at the ppt office in PP.

Incubus

She shouldn't really need her mother to sign as she is 22/23.

[incubus]

What documentation is required when applying for a Cam. ppt?

The main document is the family book. If her mother has this, everything will be (relatively) easy. Her mother should accompany her, as she will have to sign a document stating that she agrees to let her child apply for a ppt. If there is no family book, it gets extremely complicated and difficult. If you want details, you can PM me. Also, your girl can talk to my wife who's Cambodian living in Thailand and recently got a new KH ppt. She also knows someone at the ppt office in PP.

Incubus

She shouldn't really need her mother to sign as she is 22/23.

You are absolutely right, RJJ, "she shouldn't"...but she does. Why? Because it's not some Aussie sheela of 22-23 we're talking about here, but an unmarried Cambodian girl who's necessarily registered on her parents family book, and the head of household (maybe her mother maybe her father) will have to sign off on her application for a ppt. There's more than one way to skin a 'roo, and this is how they do it in Cambodia.

Incubus

[rogerman]

Thanks for all your replies.

I would like to address a few of the comments made:

1) I am not recklessly pushing her to do anything. It is something we both want to do and that is why I am taking the time to look at this from all angles to see which is the best way forward, if any.

2) I mentioned in an earlier posting that I am aware that any action may make things worse for her. If that looks the case, then we shall not pursue this any further at this stage in our relationship.

3) I am not in Thailand but currently living in Malaysia.

4) I have absolutely no intention of leaving her stranded or worse off.

5) I am not concerned about the cost or time it will take to do whatever we need to do.

At present I am thinking off taking her to Cambodia and applying for a ppt and Thai multi-entry visa then taking her to Malaysia for a visit. On her return to Thailand she can arrange for someone to take her passport to Cambodia getting a exit stamp on the way out then having ppt returned to her in Thailand.

FYI - She tells me her mother regularly makes trips to Cambodia from Thailand without a passport so they obviously have a way of doing this without getting caught.

I have yet to find out what documentation is required when applying for a Cam. ppt - any guidance on this would be great. Apparently, a fast track application takes one week and around US$250.

Any more advice/comments greatly appreciated.

cheers

Daryl

What city/village is she from in Cambodia?..... I may be able to help to some degree as i was working there for a number of years and have also been married to one.

PPT isn't the easiest thing to get in Cambodia...... but nothing is impossible.

[geovalin]

I leave with a Cambodian family since 15 years, the 6 last years in Thailand.

It's absolutely impossible to make a Cambodian passport without a baan krousar (family book). I do not see any possibility for Cambodian living in Thailand to obtain a baan krousar but who knows.

Be aware than since one year it's more and more difficult for Cambodian citizens to obtain Thai visa alike it's also more difficult for us, farangs.

If your GF has a passport, she'll be able to have a Thai visa ONCE but, as for farang playing the 30 days stamp game, do not expect she'll be able to stay in Thailand on tourist visa basis. It's just NOT possible.

Some other visas do exist but the conditions are kinda strict.

As you maybe know the Thai gvt suspects Cambodian Muslims to come to the deep south to fight the Thai army. Of course, all of us and probably also the Thai army know that this is unlikely but the fact is that the rules tighten. If your GF is Muslim it will be even more difficult to get a Thai visa.

A recent post gave you a good advice : as soon as your GF get a Cambodian passport, she can fly to Kuala Lumpur, then let's try to find a way to stay in Malaysia which is more friendly for Khmer people than Thailand.

[aznyron]

lot of good advice given

if it was me I would smuggle her back to cambodia and I would move to Cambodia and get the neccessay papers for my self then get her the papers she need in cambodia

from what I hear cambodia is farlong friendly not like Thailand correct me if I am wrong

now if you are one of those farlong who invested his life saving here then you can travel to cambodia and take care of her

here a possible solotion get a lady boy to marry her since some one else suggested that maybe be the only answer to get her back to Thailand

oh maybe you marry her in Cambodia and bring her to Thai as your dependent wife check on the visa reg for that

I think you got your self a major problem but if you are really interested in this girl go for it the challenge would be rewarding if you succeed God Bless you and the Lady

[capt_canada42]

Get her to marry Somchai from the village, give him 20k baht and get her a Thai passport.

You guys are out in left field its not that easy I know a lady with the same problem but she is Thai and she was kidnapped as a child to be sold into Prostitution in Thailand she escaped from the chicken farm that was trying to hold her but has no idea who her family is as she was kidnapped as a small child. She has spent most of her life trying to get PROPER ID. This is proving to be almost impossible. Sure you can buy fals ID but its not worth the paper its written on and can be busted in a heart beat.

[Farang99]

Thanks for all your replies.

I would like to address a few of the comments made:

1) I am not recklessly pushing her to do anything. It is something we both want to do and that is why I am taking the time to look at this from all angles to see which is the best way forward, if any.

2) I mentioned in an earlier posting that I am aware that any action may make things worse for her. If that looks the case, then we shall not pursue this any further at this stage in our relationship.

3) I am not in Thailand but currently living in Malaysia.

4) I have absolutely no intention of leaving her stranded or worse off.

5) I am not concerned about the cost or time it will take to do whatever we need to do.

At present I am thinking off taking her to Cambodia and applying for a ppt and Thai multi-entry visa then taking her to Malaysia for a visit. On her return to Thailand she can arrange for someone to take her passport to Cambodia getting a exit stamp on the way out then having ppt returned to her in Thailand.

FYI - She tells me her mother regularly makes trips to Cambodia from Thailand without a passport so they obviously have a way of doing this without getting caught.

I have yet to find out what documentation is required when applying for a Cam. ppt - any guidance on this would be great. Apparently, a fast track application takes one week and around US$250.

Any more advice/comments greatly appreciated.

cheers

Daryl

This seems to me tpo be a totally unjustified venture into the illegal - why take the risk of somebody else taking her ppt to Cambodia?

[daryl]

Thanks for all your helpful responses.

Farang99 - it is my understanding that many farangs arrange visa runs this way - i.e. pay someone to take ppt out of Thailand and get it re-stamped. It realise it is illegal but the ends justifies the means.

BTW - I am not Malaysian, just working there.

I will keep you all updated on progress (if any).

Many thanks to Incubus for your PM.

My GF will contact your good Wife today.

[stevenjm]

Passport for Cambodian is 200 dollars for 3 years (takes about 3 days) family book and id needed.

heres a bit of friendly advice and not meant to insult - have her get a hiv test and make sure she does not smoke ice.

can pm me if you want number of friend working in border police who can arrange things.

[lopburi3]

Thanks for all your helpful responses.

Farang99 - it is my understanding that many farangs arrange visa runs this way - i.e. pay someone to take ppt out of Thailand and get it re-stamped. It realise it is illegal but the ends justifies the means.

BTW - I am not Malaysian, just working there.

I will keep you all updated on progress (if any).

Many thanks to Incubus for your PM.

My GF will contact your good Wife today.

That may have been the case 5 or more years ago but it is most surly not normal now. A passport can be used for terrorist activity when not in your possession and having it cross borders and obtain stamps is considered a very serious offense. In no case does the end justify the means.