Warning This Hotel In Phuket Simply A Trap For Tourist!

[tw25rw]

A couple of other review sites:

http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html

http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/s...el-reviews.html

[LaoPo]

A couple of other review sites:

<a href="http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html" target="_blank">http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html</a>

<a href="http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/sea_sun_sand-hotel-reviews.html" target="_blank">http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/s...el-reviews.html</a>

Not one review mentioning thefts and some reviews are from October 2007 although the dates are not mentioned.

That leaves the impression that the thefts started just recently...

LaoPo

[tw25rw]

A couple of other review sites:

<a href="http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html" target="_blank">http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html</a>

<a href="http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/sea_sun_sand-hotel-reviews.html" target="_blank">http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/s...el-reviews.html</a>

Not one review mentioning thefts and some reviews are from October 2007 although the dates are not mentioned.

That leaves the impression that the thefts started just recently...

LaoPo

Sounds like a cleaner got hold of a key and went on a rampage, rather than a pattern of thefts.

Posting on these forums now will leave the hotel's reputation tarnished for years to come, and deservedly.

[game4shame]

I'm sorry to read this as I stayed at sea sun sand in july and I enjoyed my stay.....apart from the gay waiter trying to hit on me and my mate.

I can't comment on the safety boxes as I never use them. I carry ATM cards and withdraw money as I need it. lose out slightly with bank service charges but better than risking this type of scenario IMO.

[onethailand]

I'm waiting to hear the whole story on this, but it appears to me someone "trusted" in management was given the keys to the candy store, so to speak - and probably has relatives in the police department. I can't see how a maid would be able to do this so easily to so many rooms without some sort of "assistance".

If there are no satisfactory answers coming from SSS any time soon - it takes only a few seconds for me to cut them out of my (in-progress) reservations system - and another few minutes to fax them back a cancelled contract with reasons. Not a chance in hel_l will I send any future customer to a hotel which is not safe... or even "reputedly" not safe...

Edited October 22, 2007 by onethailand

[JetsetBkk]

4 digit combo (presuming its correct and the user didnt unlock with one code and relock with another, or smudge a key, or notice the greasyness)..

Would still be 4 to the power of 4 (or 256 permutations)

4 separate keys, used once each gives only 24 combinations (which is factorial 4), not 256 combinations (which is 4 to the power 4).

[bino]

Sounds like a cleaner got hold of a key and went on a rampage, rather than a pattern of thefts.

I think that there are a bunch of people involved here, and in on the scam. If it was one cleaner acting alone, the management / police would have taken action.

Got me wondering about the safe though, and the "manager" function. If the thief used an electronic reset tool, would the safe retain the personal number entered by the guest? How could the guest open it if their unique code had been reset?

The OP says that the surveillance tape shows that the maid spent about 15 minutes in the room.... would have been enough time to try the variations of the 4 digit combination. If the maid had easy access to the safe, she could have been in and out in a minute or two.

[LivinginKata]

It's a mechanical reset tool. I bought one of these safes (for just 1,900 baht in Carrefor) and at the time I wondered if these keys were all the same, or different patterns. So all the maid needed was access to the mechanical key/tool (or a spare/copy). The idea of 'grease on the keys' seems unlikely to me.

[naka]

4 digit combo (presuming its correct and the user didnt unlock with one code and relock with another, or smudge a key, or notice the greasyness)..

Would still be 4 to the power of 4 (or 256 permutations)

4 separate keys, used once each gives only 24 combinations (which is factorial 4), not 256 combinations (which is 4 to the power 4).

Quite right Jetset.

For codes starting with 1

1234

1243

1324

1342

1423

1432

Similar for numbers starting with 2 , 3 , 4

Oh and Bump

Naka.

[LivinginKata]

My safe is 6 digit code and most hotels have 6 key code safes. Never come across 4 digit codes ??

So it's factorial 6, which is a much more time consuming 'crack code' time.

Also, my safe has a second 'admin' access code. So most (??) digital safes have a user code (as set by guest), AND an admin access code for management use.

I personally never use hotel in-room safes. I do lock the safe with nothing of vale in it (as a decoy) and find some sort of hidey hole. bathrooms are best.

[naka]

Most hotels I've been in have 4 digits.

Naka.

[LaoPo]

Most hotels I've been in have 4 digits.

Naka.

Seconded, and that's worldwide. Never seen a 6-digit hotel safe.

LaoPo

[chiang mai]

A few things here:

Firstly, some one posted a picture of the Sun Sea Sand and frankly I don't recognize the hotel from that picture. Mrs CM plays kim there on occasion so I do know the hotel well. For the avoidance of doubt the SS&S is next to Chritine's massage joint on what is effectively Patong's second road.

Secondly, the Phuket gazette did a good job this week of setting out on the front page a series of crime's against farangs so I believe they will be interested in this story is someone cares to tell them about it.

Edited October 23, 2007 by chiang mai

[khall64au]

A few things here:

Firstly, some one posted a picture of the Sun Sea Sand and frankly I don't recognize the hotel from that picture. Mrs CM plays kim there on occasion so I do know the hotel well. For the avoidance of doubt the SS&S is next to Chritine's massage joint on what is effectively Patong's second road.

Secondly, the Phuket gazette did a good job this week of setting out on the front page a series of crime's against farangs so I believe they will be interested in this story is someone cares to tell them about it.

It seems that Phuket Gazette is doing a good job reporting crimes - but from what I have heard around the Rawai area this week, many crimes are going unreported to police or the police are not following up on these crimes.

I believe Phuket Gazette only knows about a fraction of crimes committed of late.

Anybody who is a victim of crime on Phuket should be calling the Gazette as well as the police!!!

[chiang mai]

We took a drive around Rawi yesterday and during our three hours in the area we counted two policemen on a motorbike. This contrasts sharply with our drive along Beach and "second" road where we counted three separate groups of policemen, about eight per group, all stopping farangs for riding motorbikes without proper ID etc. It's all a question of priorities you see and the latter is a far more interesting and rewarding pastime than looking for criminals!

Edited October 23, 2007 by chiang mai

[Super Hans]

Most hotels I've been in have 4 digits.

Naka.

The first time I used a safe like this the manager said I should choose a number between 4-8 digits - I chose 8. It is very unlikely that the thief used anything other than the master key to open these safes - I don't believe the combination cracking theory for a second.

I have been stolen from 3 times to my knowledge. When using safes I now place my wallet in a plastic bag, that I tie too tightly to be reopened. I then write the amount of money in my wallet on the bag and sign it, so I know whether it's been opened or not. It's unlikely to deter a theft like this, but at least I'm always certain I'm not being ripped off - who can remember whether they've got 5000 or 6000 in their wallets? I can't.

[Mighty Mouse]

- who can remember whether they've got 5000 or 6000 in their wallets? I can't.

..er...what room are you staying in???

[JetsetBkk]

My safe is 6 digit code and most hotels have 6 key code safes. Never come across 4 digit codes ??

So it's factorial 6, which is a much more time consuming 'crack code' time.

I was thinking that while I was considering the "factorial 4" vs. "4 to the power 4" problem. I'm fairly sure the safes in the Royal Orchid Sheraton have 6 digit codes, but I'm sure I've come across 4 digit codes too.

[Entrep]

4x3x2x1 = 24 is the number of possible combos if no digit is used twice.

[misterme]

Yes R.O.S. does have a 6 digit code, but most of the other in-room safes I've seen are 4 digit.

As for the recommendation to use a safety deposit box. BAD IDEA.

Front Desk Safety Deposit Boxes are easier for employee theft. Think about it. A copy of a key costs 25 baht, and they don't have to sneak into anyone's room, just wait until a quiet time to open and peruse the boxes.

It's not the same ethics of most countries.

[LivinginKata]

We took a drive around Rawi yesterday and during our three hours in the area we counted two policemen on a motorbike. This contrasts sharply with our drive along Beach and "second" road where we counted three separate groups of policemen, about eight per group, all stopping farangs for riding motorbikes without proper ID etc. It's all a question of priorities you see and the latter is a far more interesting and rewarding pastime than looking for criminals!

I don't know if this a well know fact..... the policeman issuing a road fine ticket gets an official percentage of the fine, that's added to his monthly salary. The captain of the police staton issuing the ticket also gets his official cut. There is a ceiling to this commission, and that's when the roadside checks cease.... Commission made ASAP and then mai pen rai to any obvious driving offences. Obviously there is no money to be made investigating criminal activities. We had a mbike stolen once, reported to Patong police station, and the reporting officier offered to look about for it (i.e. do his jobe) IF WE PAID HIS PETROL & EXPENSES....

Amazing Thailand....

Edited October 23, 2007 by LivinginKata

[Douggie Style]

This really sucks...although just another tourist trap in a very long line, the difference here it was the well organised nature, the involvement of management and staff and the complete failure of those who should help (management and police) to act. Not much, if anything, can be said in support of the hotel.

A quick google revealed other tourists from different countries reporting similar thefts at the same hotel.

I must congratulate the OP’s for taking it right up to the hotel and even organising a sit in, very ballsy.

I have gone to the website and made a booking enquiry for a group at http://phuketdir.com/seasunsand/index.htm

At which time I will string them along, then post the adverse information concerning their hotel (the thefts) asking for their response…a small thing but at least helps to reinforce some consequences will flow.

Another thing, perhaps the mods could consider placing this in a busier forum? (say general)..surely the more that see it the better.

I hate the thought of any more people losing money over Xmas to this hotel.

[chiang mai]

We took a drive around Rawi yesterday and during our three hours in the area we counted two policemen on a motorbike. This contrasts sharply with our drive along Beach and "second" road where we counted three separate groups of policemen, about eight per group, all stopping farangs for riding motorbikes without proper ID etc. It's all a question of priorities you see and the latter is a far more interesting and rewarding pastime than looking for criminals!

I don't know if this a well know fact..... the policeman issuing a road fine ticket gets an official percentage of the fine, that's added to his monthly salary. The captain of the police staton issuing the ticket also gets his official cut. There is a ceiling to this commission, and that's when the roadside checks cease.... Commission made ASAP and then mai pen rai to any obvious driving offences. Obviously there is no money to be made investigating criminal activities. We had a mbike stolen once, reported to Patong police station, and the reporting officier offered to look about for it (i.e. do his jobe) IF WE PAID HIS PETROL & EXPENSES....

Amazing Thailand....

I like the idea of commission based or incentive remuneration, it makes people work a bit harder. Now, if only they would apply this to the capture of real criminals and not soft tourist targets we might get somewhere.

[pumpuiman]

My safe is 6 digit code and most hotels have 6 key code safes. Never come across 4 digit codes ??

So it's factorial 6, which is a much more time consuming 'crack code' time.

Also, my safe has a second 'admin' access code. So most (??) digital safes have a user code (as set by guest), AND an admin access code for management use.

I personally never use hotel in-room safes. I do lock the safe with nothing of vale in it (as a decoy) and find some sort of hidey hole. bathrooms are best.

I also employ this method. I have always considered duct tape a necessary item when traveling....I usually remove a drawer and tape valuables to the back or underside and replace it.

[slackula]

It's a mechanical reset tool. I bought one of these safes (for just 1,900 baht in Carrefor) and at the time I wondered if these keys were all the same, or different patterns. So all the maid needed was access to the mechanical key/tool (or a spare/copy). The idea of 'grease on the keys' seems unlikely to me.

Agreed, the grease theory sounds a lot like an urban legend. I have heard variations of it including cleaning polish, talcum powder, detergent powder etc etc.

Electronic safes have two alternative methods to open them in the case of a forgotten pass code. The first line is to use a hand held electronic device which plugs in usually somewhere out of sight like inside the door handle, where a master pass code can be entered to open it.

If the battery is dead there is always a mechanical way to open it. Most common is to unscrew a panel on the side or the face (such as the plate bearing the manufacturer logo) and insert a key to manually wind back the locking mechanism.

[LaoPo]

Yes R.O.S. does have a 6 digit code, but most of the other in-room safes I've seen are 4 digit.

As for the recommendation to use a safety deposit box. BAD IDEA.

Front Desk Safety Deposit Boxes are easier for employee theft. Think about it. A copy of a key costs 25 baht, and they don't have to sneak into anyone's room, just wait until a quiet time to open and peruse the boxes.

It's not the same ethics of most countries.

I agree; front desk safety boxes are not a guarantee nothing won't be stolen...

I was thinking about it and maybe it helps if you take (or have taken) a picture when you hand over your belongings, together with the employee, taking your belongings.

It is not a guarantee of course but they will think twice, stealing anything.

At least you have some prove you handed your belongings.

I remember a hotel in Jomtien where you had to fill in a list with specifications; money, passports etc.....

LaoPo

[pumper]

Thailand is certainly changing.

One of the things I like[d] about Thailand was the relative safety in the 3rd world. Previously the only real concern was gem scams & such.

the farang tourist has been seen as not much more than a target in pattaya for some time.

on Phuket the attacks with weapons upon farangs as reported on this forum are becoming common.

not being able to use room safes is a major issue. ATM card, passport & cash being unsecure is an all but life threatening.. to say nothing of knife & machete attacks.

to bad.

I've been thinking about checking out Panama anyway.

[mark henry]

I sent the hotel an e.mail making out i was going to stay with them until i heard they were/are ripping off their customers, again to reinforce the point to them that what they are doing is totally out of order.

I reakon as most of the Thai police appear to be corrupt the only sure way of safe guarding your money/belongings is to keep it with you or hide it in your room (although my only concern about this is that i'll forget it! which in fact happened to me, i forgot my 1000 baht deposit after booking out, i returned and they would'nt give it to me!!)

[cobra]

Unfortunate indeed,

The fact that they just skimmed a little from each box instead of taking all of it suggest it was organized with some sense of discipline.

The amounts are just small enough not to greatly impact the guest nor ensue any big inquiry or investigation.

Had it been larger it would be higher on the radar, maybe Embassy level.

I have used both keyed lock-boxes and the four digit electronic safes many times.

Having lost the key to a lock box I saw them literally destroy the box to retrieve my contents, apparently no master key, as far as the electronic safes there is a service code to open them as well as a mech defeat.

As far as a maid being the criminal mastermind I doubt it, especially going thru the full sequence of code combinations, simply not enough time especially when the guest could return unexpectantly at any moment.

I'm sure she / they were instructed exactly what, where and how and when.

The majority of staff could very well be honest and most likely ignorant of what has / is going on. Sounds like some resent turn-over brought in some scum bags, (which is endemic lately for all of Phuket).

[phuketsub]

Why does anyone even think that The Phuket Gazette would post any tourist complaints in their paper?

This paper is one of the lamest and non investigating newspaper available in Thailand, they are to scared to step on any local toes in Phuket!

They just follow the main stream news and have no interest of making their own news, Oh I just forgot, their very smart garbage around the island reports.

What is really lame are people who hide behind the veil of internet anonymity to slag off hard-working, underpaid journalists who show more courage just by turning up for work in the morning than a cynic like "Master Chief" does in 100 blog posts.