Chiangmai Versus Bangkok For Retirement

[neilrob]

If u really want to avoid all the things mentioned here then don't live in Chiang Mai - it's now more polluted than Bangkok and the traffic is nowadays about as bad in some parts.

I live in CM and this description of the city bears no relationship to the truth. I accept your argument that Bangkok has some things to be said in its favour, but such exaggerated mischaracterizations of CM undermine your argument rather than help support it.

Neil

[Tyke]

If u really want to avoid all the things mentioned here then don't live in Chiang Mai - it's now more polluted than Bangkok and the traffic is nowadays about as bad in some parts.

I live in CM and this description of the city bears no relationship to the truth. I accept your argument that Bangkok has some things to be said in its favour, but such exaggerated mischaracterizations of CM undermine your argument rather than help support it.

Neil

Which misrepresentations exactly - u mean it doesn't have any traffic or pollution to avoid? What do u mean exactly?

[Ulysses G.]

Comparing these things in CM as simular or worse than Bangkok is utterly silly. Bangkok is far worse.

[Tyke]

Comparing these things in CM as simular or worse than Bangkok is utterly silly. Bangkok is far worse.

be specific

[Ulysses G.]

The pollution and traffic in Bangkok is much worse than Chiang Mai.

[Tyke]

The pollution and traffic in Bangkok is much worse than Chiang Mai.

Well I haven't noticed that much difference in pollution - it doesn't affect me that much - and have spent a lot of time in CM. Anyway the figures show that too - just do a Google search on 'Pollution and traffic in Chiang Mai' or something similar. Actually I understand that the smoke pollution in CM is especially dangerous especially to older people and asthmatics due to the particle size - but I am not an expert - just do a Google search. I accept the traffic in BKK is more extensive, but it usually gets gridlocked around the moat in CM - and at least u can take the Sky train or underground in BKK to avoid snarl ups. In my post I said if u want to AVOID (all) traffic and pollution (as inferred by a previous poster) then u don't live in CM because it has both in abundance.

[ShakaIsuzu]

it usually gets gridlocked around the moat in CM

It DOESNT. It SOMETIMES gets busy in certain areas at certain times, say around THapae Gate during the Sunday evening Walking Street market.

Also Chiang Mai Gate market area on the inside moat is a bit of a bottle neck.

Anyway, nice wind-up, but I have actually driven cars in Bangkok and there's COMPLETELY no comparison to Chiang Mai. And planning for this city is actually very sound, with new development being chanelled away along big new ring roads. It's brilliant.

[lannarebirth]

The only time it ever gets gridlocked in Chiang Mai is during the daylight hours at Songkran time. Basically the moat perimeter roads are turned over to pedestrians splashing each other and slow moving pickups filled with kids and water barrels. If you have business in town then you'd be wise to seek an alternate route.

[JimsKnight]

Agreed I've been riding a bike in the BKK streets all over and the traffic sucks big time. I know I can hit the road at 0300hrs and its silent. Try doing that in BKK and see how far you get!

[Tyke]

it usually gets gridlocked around the moat in CM

It DOESNT. It SOMETIMES gets busy in certain areas at certain times, say around THapae Gate during the Sunday evening Walking Street market.

Also Chiang Mai Gate market area on the inside moat is a bit of a bottle neck.

Anyway, nice wind-up, but I have actually driven cars in Bangkok and there's COMPLETELY no comparison to Chiang Mai. And planning for this city is actually very sound, with new development being chanelled away along big new ring roads. It's brilliant.

Well, every time I've been there it's got gridlocked on Huay Kaew Road big time and around the moat - it seems to have been around late afternoon, evening (eg to Tapae Gate) and can get busy in the mornings. Of course it's not as extensive as BKK but BKK is gloriously about a million times bigger (and better!).

I don't get involved much with gridlock in BKK because I don't use my car, taxis or the myriad of buses so much - prefer my bike (a real adrenalin boost!) or walk - otherwise I sweep past it all overhead on the sky train or under it on the underground. I also take the superb commuter boat to reach all over BKK - a wonderful way to travel and no more than about 30 baht wherever (with possible stopovers at marvellous Thai restaurants at each stop - u can spend a month going to each place every night). Whatever suits my fancy at the time - there is soooooo much choice to be had here.

Do u still have to climb into the back of pickups in CM to get anywhere at the mercy of the ?? baht robbers - and have to haggle about every journey taken off the beaten track? Or maybe risk drinking and driving your car or motorbike (or risk others who do it big time in CM but relatively little in BKK because of the great choice in transport to get you back home). Or maybe u take a mystery tour on one of those heralded public buses? Better stay home and enjoy the peace and quiet of CM like all the other retards. At least after a piss up I have a metered taxi to take me home on quiet roads and don't have that incessant haggling to do before paying a robber tuk-tuk driver his fee (if I can find one that goes anywhere outside the usual CM tourist area that is). Oh for the choice, convenience and sanity of BKK! Pleeeeze don't come here, ever!

[Tyke]

And planning for this city is actually very sound, with new development being chanelled away along big new ring roads. It's brilliant.

You mean that expressway they have been pretending to complete for the last decade? Oh puleeeease! Can't u do better than this?

[PeaceBlondie]

Bangcockers think that the BTS and the Metro are God's gift to Thailand. The BTS can get very crowded, and making connections is not simple. Speaking of going up and down the single step of a songtaew in Chiang Mai, how about all those BTS and Metro steps? As someone mentioned, the moat only has 2 or 3 bottlenecks, but there's almost no stoplights anywhere on the moat, except at two of the outside corners! As for haggling with taxi drivers, try leaving Patpong in the morning, or explaining to a driver at Mochit where you want to go, or even by Victory Monument...and then getting them to turn on the meter! Try finding a Bangkok tuktuk driver who won't take tourists to three gem stores! Try walking around Bangkok on the sidewalk! No thanks, Chiang Mai wins the award, hands down.

[Tyke]

Bangcockers think that the BTS and the Metro are God's gift to Thailand. The BTS can get very crowded, and making connections is not simple. Speaking of going up and down the single step of a songtaew in Chiang Mai, how about all those BTS and Metro steps? As someone mentioned, the moat only has 2 or 3 bottlenecks, but there's almost no stoplights anywhere on the moat, except at two of the outside corners! As for haggling with taxi drivers, try leaving Patpong in the morning, or explaining to a driver at Mochit where you want to go, or even by Victory Monument...and then getting them to turn on the meter! Try finding a Bangkok tuktuk driver who won't take tourists to three gem stores! Try walking around Bangkok on the sidewalk! No thanks, Chiang Mai wins the award, hands down.

Almost every BTS station has a moving escalator on both sides of each station. Rush hour is the only time the BTS gets crowded enough that u can't possibly get a seat - just shows why the BTS is so convenient. I seldom have to forgo a train to wait for the next due to overcrowding.

Making connections? Oh wow the BTS map has 2 lines - not difficult to understand, and there are 3 points to cross over to the underground - how many do u need?

Stop lights on the moat? Who would stop? The hundreds of useless, empty songtaews might do if u hail one down.

Metering is never a problem for me and I always insist on it and recommend visiting hicks to do the same. The taxi drivers speak at least as much English as the CMM songtaew drivers.

Tuk Tuk drivers? I never use them - no need - so much more than 2 choices of transport in BKK, unlike CMM. However, I often HAVE TO use them in CM esp after the other meagre form of transport has given up the ghost. But I've had to wait up to an hour for any form of transport in CM when I've gone to some way-out restaurant sometimes not too far from the centre. Then the haggling starts.

Walking around BKK? I do it all the time - great exercise and a lot of free space coz not many others do it!

And is Patpong the only place u know to leave in the mornings when u are here? No wonder, so limited.

[Tyke]

It's likely that in a few years I'll be retiring in penury after spending most of my working life in Thailand, and therefore not eligible for a pension. That means I won't be able to afford my reasonably priced rented condo in the centre of Bangkok anymore. The options would seem to be move to Bangkok's cheaper suburbs or to Chiangmai. I've only been to Chiangmai once in the 70s, once in the 80s and once last year, but I like the place and the friendly people. However, I don't know much about living there.

What are the features that make CM a better place to retire than Bangkok? I have PR, so visa stuff isn't a problem. I don't drive in Bangkok because I live near a BTS station. I do appreciate the good medical facilities in Bangkok, shops like Villa, UBC cable TV and decent ADSL access, but the place has zero charm these days and the suburbs are boring.

Convince me that Chiangmai is better!

Camerata,

I am just wondering why u have only visited CM 3 times when u have been living in BKK for so long.

[Steve2UK]

Any chance of ringing the bell for the end of playtime so that the children can go back to class?

This thread seems to have ceased being useful.

JxP

JxP - way too early for that............... nobody has yet mentioned the quality of pizza's available all over BKK - not to mention that BKK dads are bigger than your dad, so there!

Oh - and so many more shiny things in BKK............. and........ and............. [d**n, this thing is catching - got to get back to my life.... I do have one ]

Anyhow, I reckon that the OP (Camerata - in case it's too far back in the thread for people to remember) has had pretty much all his main questions answered.

[LeungKen]

.

My old Granny used to say "Suck It and See"

In other words go and try it for a couple of short stays - I would advise trying both the good weather times & the bad - but then I always try a reconnoitre before, maybe I'm old-fashioned.

[Puwa]

This is a truly moronic conversation. The more one tries to push his own preferences on others, the more insecure he appears.

Different people like different things--leave it at that.

[uptheos]

Bangkok has a lot of interesting things going on and I like to visit about twice a year and I have a good time. But it always feels good when the plane lands at Chiangmai and you drive out of the airport with one or two other cars as opposed to thousands and get home in 10 minutes as opposed to 3 hours.

Chiangmai is just great.

[meadish_sweetball]

Off-topic posts and comments have been erased.

Please stick to the topic.

[camerata]

Bangkok is a big, ugly city, where Chiang Mai is more like a small town, but with good farang food, shopping, movie theatres, ect. and everything is cheaper.

That's kind of how I see it myself. When I first came to Bangkok in the 70s it didn't have much but I still enjoyed it. In fact I enjoyed it because it wasn't too Western. So a lack of some conveniences in Chiang Mai wouldn't bother me too much.

[percy2]

Bangkok is a big, ugly city, where Chiang Mai is more like a small town, but with good farang food, shopping, movie theatres, ect. and everything is cheaper.

That's kind of how I see it myself. When I first came to Bangkok in the 70s it didn't have much but I still enjoyed it. In fact I enjoyed it because it wasn't too Western. So a lack of some conveniences in Chiang Mai wouldn't bother me too much.

I just got back from CM , it is very nice.

But I would only live outside the city in the mountains and only if I had a car.

Cheers

[camerata]

I coped by staying in my a/c office more than I usually would. Next year if we see another bad conflagration of weather and smoke, I may escape to northern Yunnan.

The whole idea of not staying there (or anywhere) the whole year is very appealing. But I guess it depends on my financial situation.

BTW, is it necessary to learn the Northern dialect or is central Thai spoken by everyone? I found that in Issan most folks could understand Thai well enough but had trouble speaking it.

[camerata]

I am just wondering why u have only visited CM 3 times when u have been living in BKK for so long.

Work, basically. At the time of the first two trips I wasn't in a 9-5 job. The third trip, last year, was a New Year invite from friends in Mae Rim. Since I take my annual leave overseas, I don't really have time for a decent trip to Chiang Mai. On the last trip I was chauffered around so I didn't get a feel for public transportation or any places other than temples and tourist areas.

[camerata]

How about security in Chiang Mai? I always felt safe there (as I do living in central Bangkok) but I just read the topic about samurai gangs. How safe is it for your Thai wife, for example, compared to Bangkok?

Are there any classical music concerts in CM? This is one thing I enjoy in Bangkok. I'm not really bothered about pubs and bars. I prefer cosy restaurants and cinemas.

[PeaceBlondie]

If you aren't carousing around, drunk and crazy, after midnight, Chiang Mai is very safe. The samurai gang and now the "Mio gang" could be found in Pocatello, Idaho. There are always freak exceptions, but I feel safer here than I did in rural and urban Mexico.

[chanchao]

BTW, is it necessary to learn the Northern dialect or is central Thai spoken by everyone? I found that in Issan most folks could understand Thai well enough but had trouble speaking it.

Same here. Almost everyone can speak central Thai. Occasionally you run into some granny at the market in Samoeng who only speaks Muang. So it's pretty much the same situation as in the North East.

[chanchao]

How about security in Chiang Mai? I always felt safe there (as I do living in central Bangkok) but I just read the topic about samurai gangs. How safe is it for your Thai wife, for example, compared to Bangkok?

Well, she feels a lot safer here than in Bangkok. Could be subjective though, I don't know. In any case it's not any kind of issue. Traffic safety is an issue, but then again it's just as big an issue in Bangkok.

Are there any classical music concerts in CM? This is one thing I enjoy in Bangkok.

Well if there are then I wouldn't know about it. Not a whole lot I believe.

[Tyke]

I am just wondering why u have only visited CM 3 times when u have been living in BKK for so long.

Work, basically. At the time of the first two trips I wasn't in a 9-5 job. The third trip, last year, was a New Year invite from friends in Mae Rim. Since I take my annual leave overseas, I don't really have time for a decent trip to Chiang Mai. On the last trip I was chauffered around so I didn't get a feel for public transportation or any places other than temples and tourist areas.

Camerata,

Despite what I have said previously about CM, it actually is a nice little place to visit, and my second choice in Thailand.

Musts to see are the Sat and esp Sunday night street markets, the Ping River restaurants and boat trip, Tuk, the great guitarist who plays nightly at the Brazziery restaurant, Loy Krathong festival (better than BKK!), Guitar Man bar, Doi Suthep mountain, around Thapae Gate, Night Bazaar, the Foreign cemetery, The Cafe, the flower market, River Ping Palace Restaurant, a temple or 2, Simon's cabaret. There must be 1 or 2 other places but then that's about it - you can do it all in about a week at the most, then u might start to fall asleep.

There are some nice tours outside CM that u can get almost anywhere in the city, which might sustain u for maybe another week or 2. Avoid all tours involving animals, eg temple monkeys, Night safari, zoo. Maybe elephant camp is worthwhile as there's not much else for the changs to do.

If you can stand 9-10 hours on a bus, I highly recommend to go by VIP bus from Mo Chit bus station - I use that every time I go and enjoy every minute of it.

Avoid all attempts at getting u involved in trivia like pub quiz nights. and try to avoid the small town cosy group mentality if u get to live there. This is probably the most detailed attempt at giving u solid advice on CM in most of this thread.

Good luck with it and let's know what u finally decide.

[chanchao]

Avoid all attempts at getting u involved in trivia like pub quiz nights. and try to avoid the small town cosy group mentality if u get to live there.

Hiding in the basement on Mondays works for me. But one time I was out of toilet paper so I thought I could get away with a quick visit to Tesco.. Big mistake; I was set upon by the Farang Quiz Night Inquisition and hauled off to Tuskers. Woe was me.

Edited November 19, 2007 by chanchao

[chanchao]

Forgot a comment on this one:

Well, every time I've been there it's got gridlocked on Huay Kaew Road big time and around the moat

I often hear this exact line from Bangkok people. Then I figured out why: They tend to visit on Songkran, Loy Krathong or some other holiday, then they all go to Wat Doi Suthep at the same time, then they find that Huay Kaew is gridlocked... with mostly cars with BKK license plates. They effectively bring their traffic jam with them.

Earlier when I said the new ring road planning has been brilliant to channel development away. Let me give you an example. I live 10 kms out of town in the Hang Dong direction. My kid's pre-school thingy is pretty much at the Royal Flora roundabout. My office is out towards Sankamphaeng. This is a total distance of about 23 kms. I send the kid to the zoo-keepers at day care at 8am in 'rush hour', then drive to work. 23 urban kilometers in am rush hour. How long does it take me? 15-20 minutes of straight motoring, depending in how much diesel I feel like burning; no jams, not even traffic lights because of all the tunnels.

If there's any gridlock here then it's in the space between your ears.

Edited November 20, 2007 by chanchao