Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[Plus]

How about foreign news headlines saying that majority of Thais voted for Thaksin's party or they voted against against the coup? Anyone admitted that on national politics Democrats got more votes than PPP yet?

They can't get even simple facts like percentage numbers straight but they pretend to know everything about martial law interfering with PPP campaign.

Even in local MP votes PPP got only about 36%, and even if it translated in higher percentage of seats, that's what people said - 36% for no coup/bring Thaksin back. Majority has always been over 50, not 36 and not 48.

>>>>>

Who has been able to put a leash on Samak if his party really had been obstracted in their campaign?

As for sour grapes - just wait and see how proThaksin agenda gets pushed to the bottom of the pile. Without straight majority it's dead. What will PPP campaign on then? Who will bankroll them?

Who cares? Without Thaksin they are toothless.

[HobbsTheFerociousTiger]

Who cares? Without Thaksin they are toothless.

I think they're more than happy with all the people voting form them. But, you can always hope of course.

But anyway, and this is not to anyone in particular but more in general:

Why don't you all stop whining at the bloody obvious, and start wondering WHAT the Democrat party can do to become more palatable to more people? Of course they can't be everything to everyone all the time, but it's clear they need more voters. So which strategy do you see for them that would gain them electoral success?

I'll start.

They're basically a liberal (European "liberal" sense, not US) and pro free-market club. Which you'd think fits Thailand very well, as so many people are running their own shop or business or work freelance on the side, etc, etc. I think there's some potential to woo urban and almost-urban folks in many districts where they're currently not achieving anything. Also they could do more in terms of affordable education & healthcare.

I mean, they've tried everything else: mob demonstrations, election boycotts, condoning a military coup, generally derailing the democratic process, standing idle where civil rights are nixed and their own constitution replaced with a military-favoured one... So, how about trying to be a politcal party for a change, with constructive ideas that appeal to more voters? Works everywhere else doesn't it.

Edited December 26, 2007 by HobbsTheFerociousTiger

[sriracha john]

Give it at least a month, until power is transfered, then, a few days until you see the same old TRT shenanigans.

Jakaprob Penkair was still babbling about a Suwarnabhumi province this evening on tv.

Sheesh... not that again...

but then, it could be such a huge source of more money and more power, I could see why they want to drag it up once more...

Airport panel 'turned blind eye to graft'

Thaksin made a difference to the SADC by appointing himself as chairman of the committee which also comprised other cabinet members and top bureaucrats. In 2003 the SADC demanded more power. All procurements for projects under its supervision were granted an exemption from compliance with cabinet resolutions, orders and regulations which are usually applicable to procurements by state agencies.

Don't forget there was also the plan to turn the area around the new airport into a new super province with a lotof almost autonomous power. Stakes were very high on this one and a lot of people will be found to have dirty hands if there is ever a full investigation.

The above article is an interesting study of how check and balance mechanisms are easily subverted.

Not forgotten at all... especially when thaivisa is such a fountain of easily findable information....

Suvarnabhumi Province to be established within this year

BANGKOK: -- The government plans to develop "Suvarnabhumi Maha Nakhon", consisting of the Suvarnabhumi International Airport and its surrounding areas into a new province within this year, according to Deputy Interior Minister Somchai Sunthornvut.

Mr. Somchai told journalists here on Wednesday that he expected the new province would be fully developed by May or June 2006, in time for the opening of the Suvarnabhumi Airport for commercial services in late June.

"Both the House of Representatives and the Senate are expected to deliberate and pass a legislation on the establishment of the new province, as proposed by the government, after they convene in the second quarter of this year," he said.

The province may be initially ruled by a state committee, headed by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra himself or a senior official authorized by the prime minister, according to the minister.

The administrative body will then appoint the new province's first governor.

"Elections of the mayor and members of the new province's local legislative body will be held within four years thereafter," said the minister.

--TNA 2006-02-16

a testament to the control and power he wielded without oversight... MP's, Senate, Cabinet... which he continued to expand on...

eg. a despot

[tropo]

Give it at least a month, until power is transfered, then, a few days until you see the same old TRT shenanigans.

Jakaprob Penkair was still babbling about a Suwarnabhumi province this evening on tv.

What would you suggest? Roll the tanks back into Bangkok?

This election result is as close as you could get to a referendum on the military coup and Thaksin. The people have spoken.

[sriracha john]

Thaksin closes in on his real goal

Thailand's deposed prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, says he is coming home to focus on sport, but anyone who believes he will keep his nose out of politics probably left the carrots out for Santa's reindeer too.

In the 15 months of his exile, Thaksin has lived mostly in London, buying an English Premier League soccer team and letting his affiliation with Thailand's national obsession for English soccer do the public relations work for him.

In the recent general election, some candidates for Thaksin's proxy People Power Party campaigned in Manchester City jerseys in a clear marriage of politics and sport.

The threads that connect the exiled premier to the People Power Party are strong and well woven.

Thaksin's legal adviser, Noppadon Pattama, is a newly minted MP for the PPP, while Surapong Suewonglee, a former Thaksin government spokesman, is the party's secretary-general.

Thaksin has reportedly offered to be an adviser to the PPP, if asked. But the reality is he is one of the 111 members of Thai Rak Thai banned from politics for five years.

The horse-trading to form a coalition government goes on, with Samak Sundaravej and the People Power Party still the most likely to form government. For Thaksin to come in from the cold, first the new government would have to issue an amnesty on the Constitution Court's decision to ban him.

It's not a position supported by the major opposition party, the Democrats. Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said Thaksin had the right to return and face the judicial process but should not interfere in the political or judicial systems.

"We maintain that all our allegations against Thaksin on the corruption charges are true. We see clear evidence of it. His recent movements hint at the possibility of interference," Abhisit told the Nation newspaper.

"In that case, he could spark rift and conflict, and nobody wants another coup."

Thailand's business community is also watching closely. Federation of Thai Industries chairman Santi Vilas-sakdanont said Thaksin was welcome to come back and pursue corruption cases against him by the Assets Scrutiny Commission. "But if he comes and tries to change the constitution or to deal with the 111 banned politicians, it will create problems," Santi told Thai television.

"We said if the People Power formed the government and tried to change the constitution, or invited Thaksin back, or interfered in the judicial system, it would face resistance. The situation will be fragile."

- The Age (Australia)

[sriracha john]

PPP split over Chart Thai

The People Power Party (PPP) is divided over whether it should try to bring Chart Thai into its planned coalition government, following its apparent success in getting Puea Pandin. Key PPP figure Newin Chidchob (TRT Banned #6) believes Chart Thai is now dispensable. Secretary-General Surapong Suebwonglee announced on Tuesday that the Pracharaj and Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana parties had decided to join the PPP in forming a coalition government. The addition of Puea Pandin would give the alliance 278 seats, which Newin feels is enough to ensure the stability of the new government, a PPP source said. But party leader Samak Sundaravej wants Chart Thai in the coalition. Despite being mentioned as part of the PPP effort, Puea Pandin said they would wait for the official election results, due on Jan 3, before making a decision. Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana Leader Gen Chettha Thanajaro said the PPP had approached his party, but he would wait for the official poll results. But a PPP source insisted Ruam Jai Thai and Puea Pandin had already confirmed their participation in the PPP's bid to form a coalition.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/27Dec2007_news03.php

============================================================================

Rather foretelling that PPP is already speaking for their alleged coalition parties, even if it's opposite of what the parties themselves are saying.... as well as having Banned From Politics Newin STILL being involved in the thick of any decision-making process for PPP.

Edited December 27, 2007 by sriracha john

[ando]

How about foreign news headlines saying that majority of Thais voted for Thaksin's party or they voted against against the coup? Anyone admitted that on national politics Democrats got more votes than PPP yet?

They can't get even simple facts like percentage numbers straight but they pretend to know everything about martial law interfering with PPP campaign.

Even in local MP votes PPP got only about 36%, and even if it translated in higher percentage of seats, that's what people said - 36% for no coup/bring Thaksin back. Majority has always been over 50, not 36 and not 48.

>>>>>

Who has been able to put a leash on Samak if his party really had been obstracted in their campaign?

As for sour grapes - just wait and see how proThaksin agenda gets pushed to the bottom of the pile. Without straight majority it's dead. What will PPP campaign on then? Who will bankroll them?

Who cares? Without Thaksin they are toothless.

Don't worry, I am sure the next junta to seize power will incorporate a "Gerry Mander" into their bag of tricks to make sure their cronies get the required advantage.

[marshbags]

there's one post that says "thai people have spoken" but hey i don't agree with this. i think only the north and northeastern have spoken as majority of PPP's votes are there but if you look at the central, bangkok, eastern, and south the people says otherwise. so what's the difference we can see in these regions? you know it...

I hear ya. Votes from households with more wealth should count more heavily.

A light hearted observation i hope, going by your smiley

My take on the diffference, just in case you are being serious and i,ve wrongly given you the benefit of being worthy of it.

The difference is about double edged subsidies in the N, N.East whereby vote catching projects are promised.

The sad reality being that they amount to peanuts ( when they actually follow through on them. ) when you take into account all that,s creamed off by the elected officials, Puyai Ban and the choosen few who are within the group who support them.

The other areas, where many are of course generally better off, are not tempted by the phoney election promises and are well aware of the enriching process

and who benefits the most from the newly created wealth enhacing that is generated while giving pathetic handouts ( by comparison ) to what the choosen few get out of it, in the above pecking order.

A nice Quotation i came across many years ago, has been in my wallet ever since, sums up for me how we should act in relation to attitudes on society..

The beloved of the Almighty are:-

The rich who have the humility of the poor, and the poor who have the magnity of the rich

If only not only Thai could adopt the meaning of this along with the rest of society all over the wolrd.

There,s a nice comforting thought amid all the uncertaincies for all of us.

marshbags

Edited December 27, 2007 by marshbags

[selftaopath]

For months leading to the elections we haven't heard a single complain froom PPP about being unfairly treated, about the martial law - anything. In fact we had EC clearly telling Sonthi to back off as soon as Samak got the "secret plan" papers.

Since 2005 PPP/TRT has lost four million votes, Democrats gained six (on proportionate lists, not local MPs).

Funny how Western media have been so critical of Junta interference then.

Geez, even low brow stuff like Star News Asia accepts the fact these elections have been conducted with a lot of Junta interference including some provinces voting under Martial Law.

Perhaps you haven't heard anything on local media and that comes as no surprise as that is monitored and censored by the Junta.

So am I to believe that Thailand has a democracy? Humn.

[marshbags]

PPP split over Chart Thai

The People Power Party (PPP) is divided over whether it should try to bring Chart Thai into its planned coalition government, following its apparent success in getting Puea Pandin. Key PPP figure Newin Chidchob (TRT Banned #6) believes Chart Thai is now dispensable. Secretary-General Surapong Suebwonglee announced on Tuesday that the Pracharaj and Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana parties had decided to join the PPP in forming a coalition government. The addition of Puea Pandin would give the alliance 278 seats, which Newin feels is enough to ensure the stability of the new government, a PPP source said. But party leader Samak Sundaravej wants Chart Thai in the coalition. Despite being mentioned as part of the PPP effort, Puea Pandin said they would wait for the official election results, due on Jan 3, before making a decision. Ruam Jai Thai Chart Pattana Leader Gen Chettha Thanajaro said the PPP had approached his party, but he would wait for the official poll results. But a PPP source insisted Ruam Jai Thai and Puea Pandin had already confirmed their participation in the PPP's bid to form a coalition.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/27Dec2007_news03.php

============================================================================

Rather foretelling that PPP is already speaking for their alleged coalition parties, even if it's opposite of what the parties themselves are saying.... as well as having Banned From Politics Newin STILL being involved in the thick of any decision-making process for PPP.

I,ll take it a step further, once the newly elected wolves in sheeps clothing have had time to re arrange things in favour of all that has been exposed, along with the reinstating of the banned TRT politicians.

PPP will become dispensable and the TRT will re establish itself.

As an after thought, i wonder if the PPP elected members have given this a thought.

I,d have thought that many of them will loose their newly found status ( make that questionable ) and be replaced by the Above wrongly reinstated TRT members in question.

The PPP individuals wiil then become dispensable also.

Then again just maybe they were aware of this before hand and they are being generously rewarded for acitng as temp. holders of their respective positions

The puppet masters will then reclaim what they lost legally ( via the courts ) from the puppets as was the exiled individuals objective in the first place

marshbags

Edited December 27, 2007 by marshbags

[Old Man River]

Give it at least a month, until power is transfered, then, a few days until you see the same old TRT shenanigans.

Jakaprob Penkair was still babbling about a Suwarnabhumi province this evening on tv.

Sheesh... not that again...

Airport panel 'turned blind eye to graft'

Thaksin made a difference to the SADC by appointing himself as chairman of the committee which also comprised other cabinet members and top bureaucrats. In 2003 the SADC demanded more power. All procurements for projects under its supervision were granted an exemption from compliance with cabinet resolutions, orders and regulations which are usually applicable to procurements by state agencies.

Don't forget there was also the plan to turn the area around the new airport into a new super province with a lotof almost autonomous power. Stakes were very high on this one and a lot of people will be found to have dirty hands if there is ever a full investigation.

The above article is an interesting study of how check and balance mechanisms are easily subverted.

Not forgotten at all... especially when thaivisa is such a fountain of easily findable information....

Suvarnabhumi Province to be established within this year

BANGKOK: -- The government plans to develop "Suvarnabhumi Maha Nakhon", consisting of the Suvarnabhumi International Airport and its surrounding areas into a new province within this year, according to Deputy Interior Minister Somchai Sunthornvut.

Mr. Somchai told journalists here on Wednesday that he expected the new province would be fully developed by May or June 2006, in time for the opening of the Suvarnabhumi Airport for commercial services in late June.

"Both the House of Representatives and the Senate are expected to deliberate and pass a legislation on the establishment of the new province, as proposed by the government, after they convene in the second quarter of this year," he said.

The province may be initially ruled by a state committee, headed by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra himself or a senior official authorized by the prime minister, according to the minister.

The administrative body will then appoint the new province's first governor.

"Elections of the mayor and members of the new province's local legislative body will be held within four years thereafter," said the minister.

--TNA 2006-02-16

a testament to the control and power he wielded without oversight... MP's, Senate, Cabinet... which he continued to expand on...

eg. a despot

I have been writing about this airport economic zone for well over a year on TV. Some people don't get it and never will. This is the goose that lays the golden egg whether managed by former TRT politicians or outsiders. Too much to be gained to simply fade away.

[Heng]

there's one post that says "thai people have spoken" but hey i don't agree with this. i think only the north and northeastern have spoken as majority of PPP's votes are there but if you look at the central, bangkok, eastern, and south the people says otherwise. so what's the difference we can see in these regions? you know it...

I hear ya. Votes from households with more wealth should count more heavily.

A light hearted observation i hope, going by your smiley

My take on the diffference, just in case you are being serious and i,ve wrongly given you the benefit of being worthy of it.

The difference is about double edged subsidies in the N, N.East whereby vote catching projects are promised.

The sad reality being that they amount to peanuts ( when they actually follow through on them. ) when you take into account all that,s creamed off by the elected officials, Puyai Ban and the choosen few who are within the group who support them.

The other areas, where many are of course generally better off, are not tempted by the phoney election promises and are well aware of the enriching process

and who benefits the most from the newly created wealth enhacing that is generated while giving pathetic handouts ( by comparison ) to what the choosen few get out of it, in the above pecking order.

A nice Quotation i came across many years ago, has been in my wallet ever since, sums up for me how we should act in relation to attitudes on society..

The beloved of the Almighty are:-

The rich who have the humility of the poor, and the poor who have the magnity of the rich

If only not only Thai could adopt the meaning of this along with the rest of society all over the wolrd.

There,s a nice comforting thought amid all the uncertaincies for all of us.

marshbags

Klrab, tell me something I don't know.

As for that last part, IMO I've run across more humble well to do folks here than anywhere else on earth, so far anyway. Just like there are salt of the earth less well off Thais, there are plenty that are the same but simply better off. (the same way there are money grubbing evil poor AND wealthy Thais) The forum norm is often an assumption that just because someone is better off, they must be mean spirited, a slave driver of sorts, and bad or evil in some way. Folks sometimes find it hard to accept that there are plenty of folks who are better off financially AND nice people on top of that.

And no, they aren't all aligned towards one political party or the other. Plenty don't even vote.

[wolfmanjack]

Perhaps the Democrats can look at this and why only Bangkok votes for them

According to the latest unofficial results MORE pople voted for Democrat overall policies than for PPP.

The often repeated "only Bangkok bla bla bla" is patently not true, please try to base your opinions on facts.

http://203.150.244.10/reports/eng/ - here's the link

This is the same link where i got my 71 million votes from.

Total 71,772,667 400 100 35,535,767 80 100

The percentages still stand unless you think the same person cast one vote for PPP and second for another party. I asked a few people who they voted for and they said #,#,6# and #. I asked what party that was? They said they don't know someone told them these numbers and that is how they voted. One person admitted to casting no votes. Some said they did not vote. Some said they voted for PPP because they got rid of drugs. Some said they voted for the dems because thaksin stole too much. I am in Chiang Mai and not Isaan though so who knows ?

I do believe that things will not be hunky dory here based on what was happening right before the coup and I think that will pick back up again.

[John K]

Meanwhile ........

Former Thai Rak Thai chief advisor for Surin shot dead

Surin - A former chief of advisor of the Thai Rak Thai Partys' Surin branch was killed along with his wife Wednesday night.

Hui Rangkhanukulrak, 65, and his wife, Panatkorn Borisutchotipong, 55, were killed inside their sedan car at 7:50 pm on a road in Muang district.

Police said the two were heading to their son's home when gunmen opened fire at them.

Hui used to work as chief advisor for the Thai Rak Thai branch in Surin.

The Nation

[hammered]

Perhaps the Democrats can look at this and why only Bangkok votes for them

According to the latest unofficial results MORE pople voted for Democrat overall policies than for PPP.

The often repeated "only Bangkok bla bla bla" is patently not true, please try to base your opinions on facts.

http://203.150.244.10/reports/eng/ - here's the link

This is the same link where i got my 71 million votes from.

Total 71,772,667 400 100 35,535,767 80 100

The percentages still stand unless you think the same person cast one vote for PPP and second for another party. I asked a few people who they voted for and they said #,#,6# and #. I asked what party that was? They said they don't know someone told them these numbers and that is how they voted. One person admitted to casting no votes. Some said they did not vote. Some said they voted for PPP because they got rid of drugs. Some said they voted for the dems because thaksin stole too much. I am in Chiang Mai and not Isaan though so who knows ?

I do believe that things will not be hunky dory here based on what was happening right before the coup and I think that will pick back up again.

If you look at the proportional vote which will give the real voting figure you see a total of around 33 million votes of which both the Dems and PPP got about 14 million. Unofficially I think the Dems were slightly up. However, as Thailand is not a fully PR country it does not mena much other than the actual mandate PPP received in terms of the popular vote was not overwhelming. As in all countruies with a constituency based system we rely on the winners to recognize that they represent all the electorate an act accordingly, which rarely happens.

The PPP are in a position to do pretty much what they want right now in accordance with the thai electoral system. It should also be noted that the country is split between the 4 Northern most zones which proportionatlly went PPP and the four southern most zones which went Dem. To continue labelling the opponents of PPP as Bangkok based is to miss the point that opponents now spread through the south into Bagkok and onto many central and eastern provinces surrounding Bangkok. The country is now more polarised if anything in terms of numbers than it was a year ago and the polarisation is taking a North/South split. This is a tinderbox which with the wrong handling could result in a lot of tears. I hope personally that the calmer heads in ther PPP prevail and try to address national reconcilliation rather than just drive through personal agendas.

[John K]

For months leading to the elections we haven't heard a single complain froom PPP about being unfairly treated, about the martial law - anything. In fact we had EC clearly telling Sonthi to back off as soon as Samak got the "secret plan" papers.

Since 2005 PPP/TRT has lost four million votes, Democrats gained six (on proportionate lists, not local MPs).

Funny how Western media have been so critical of Junta interference then.

Geez, even low brow stuff like Star News Asia accepts the fact these elections have been conducted with a lot of Junta interference including some provinces voting under Martial Law.

Perhaps you haven't heard anything on local media and that comes as no surprise as that is monitored and censored by the Junta.

Interesting point... how did you find out about it if it is censored seeing according to your profile you are in Thailand? Perhaps that was one of the websites blocked for everyone?

Please post them and not just quote them. I have seen very little if any supporting links for what you have been saying right along. I do wish to take them into consideration when I do post. The stuff you talk about and cite comes across as very prejudges and narrow viewed based on category (junta) and not based on actual action of the people involved.

[thai_narak]

Perhaps the Democrats can look at this and why only Bangkok votes for them

According to the latest unofficial results MORE pople voted for Democrat overall policies than for PPP.

The often repeated "only Bangkok bla bla bla" is patently not true, please try to base your opinions on facts.

http://203.150.244.10/reports/eng/ - here's the link

This is the same link where i got my 71 million votes from.

Total 71,772,667 400 100 35,535,767 80 100

The percentages still stand unless you think the same person cast one vote for PPP and second for another party. I asked a few people who they voted for and they said #,#,6# and #. I asked what party that was? They said they don't know someone told them these numbers and that is how they voted. One person admitted to casting no votes. Some said they did not vote. Some said they voted for PPP because they got rid of drugs. Some said they voted for the dems because thaksin stole too much. I am in Chiang Mai and not Isaan though so who knows ?

I do believe that things will not be hunky dory here based on what was happening right before the coup and I think that will pick back up again.

If you look at the proportional vote which will give the real voting figure you see a total of around 33 million votes of which both the Dems and PPP got about 14 million. Unofficially I think the Dems were slightly up. However, as Thailand is not a fully PR country it does not mena much other than the actual mandate PPP received in terms of the popular vote was not overwhelming. As in all countruies with a constituency based system we rely on the winners to recognize that they represent all the electorate an act accordingly, which rarely happens.

The PPP are in a position to do pretty much what they want right now in accordance with the thai electoral system. It should also be noted that the country is split between the 4 Northern most zones which proportionatlly went PPP and the four southern most zones which went Dem. To continue labelling the opponents of PPP as Bangkok based is to miss the point that opponents now spread through the south into Bagkok and onto many central and eastern provinces surrounding Bangkok. The country is now more polarised if anything in terms of numbers than it was a year ago and the polarisation is taking a North/South split. This is a tinderbox which with the wrong handling could result in a lot of tears. I hope personally that the calmer heads in ther PPP prevail and try to address national reconcilliation rather than just drive through personal agendas.

i hope you are right but the exact opposite has been seen for both PPP/TRT leaders (Samak/Thaksin) on October 6, 1976 massacre (Samak) and the on October 25, 2004 takbai massacre (Thaksin) in the south.

see takbai massacre on you tube:

part1

part2

Edited December 27, 2007 by thai_narak

[kurtgruen]

So after reading posts, talking to family and friends and other Thais in our Province (Chiang Mai) and reading various newspapers, sifting though the garbage and finally making up my own mind, I came to the following conclusions...

1. If you have enough money, you can buy political parties, govenment officials and even people who were absolutely opposed to you before

2. Vote buying continues almost as usual, which makes the whole thing one big joke

3. The military government did do something for this country (for example reducing National Park Fees for foreigners, by 50 - 75%, which attracts tourists, continuing road construction and other projects, etc.)

4. This country just "elected" a goverment, that perviously did things like... double National Park fees to drive away foreign tourists from National Parks, tighten visa laws, to get rid of all those foreigners, who pumped millions of dollars into the Thai economy every month, lend money to poor farmers, who now lost their farms and homes, because they couldn't pay it back.

It ran on a platform to bring back a leader that is still up on corruption charges.

5. Democracy is highly overrated. I see people arround the world, going to the polling booths, like sheep line up for the slaughter. Lets face it...money buys votes all around the world, in every democracy. Back home, in Canada, we had Media Giants like Konrad Black, who would take out full-page ads in their own papers, supporting a particular party. He would fire editors, who would speak against his views. Big money buys elections in democracies, no matter where you live. Maybe here it's cash in hand and in other countries, it's being bombarded by advertising and rhetoric of the rich, but as long as people can't think for themselves, the result will be the same around the world.

6. Some people think education is the answer and so do I. Then again thought control isn't. Education to me is to teach people to think for themselves, not just to fill them with generations full of outdated knowledge. Mankind evolves, because a few of us can think for themselves, challenge outdated and wrong concepts, question everything and come up with creative answers.

7. Democracy doesn't work, Communism doesn't work, Libertarianism doesn't work... nothing works, except for all the poor farmers and factory slaves, who have to work their butts of, so everyone on the top can sit on their fat a**es.

It's a sad world we are living in. Will it ever change? Probably not...oh well, back to my beer

Happy Holidays everyone

[John K]

Core leaders celebrate PPP victory abroad

(BangkokPost.com) – Core leaders of the People Power party have reportedly met with Thaksin Shinawatra in Hong Kong to celebrate the party’s victory at the polls, according to a source close to the People Power party (PPP).

The first batch of former members of the defunct Thai Rak Thai party had arrived in Hong Kong on Wednesday, the source claimed. They include key leaders of the PPP such as Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Sudarat Keyupapan and Danuporn Punakan. A second batch of PPP members will reportedly make their way to Hong Kong on Thursday.

More: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=124715

It has not been a week and already this type of activity. They have not even been signed off by the EC. I wonder if this close involvement with Thaksin will be viewed and prohibited by the EC thus costing the PPP their existence.

[kurtgruen]

Core leaders celebrate PPP victory abroad

(BangkokPost.com) – Core leaders of the People Power party have reportedly met with Thaksin Shinawatra in Hong Kong to celebrate the party’s victory at the polls, according to a source close to the People Power party (PPP).

The first batch of former members of the defunct Thai Rak Thai party had arrived in Hong Kong on Wednesday, the source claimed. They include key leaders of the PPP such as Yongyuth Tiyapairat, Sudarat Keyupapan and Danuporn Punakan. A second batch of PPP members will reportedly make their way to Hong Kong on Thursday.

More: http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=124715

It has not been a week and already this type of activity. They have not even been signed off by the EC. I wonder if this close involvement with Thaksin will be viewed and prohibited by the EC thus costing the PPP their existence.

You mean that Thaskin didn't buy the EC yet?

[Abrak]

I do think it is sour grapes for people to come onto TV and accuse Thaksin of rigging the election. The fact is he wasnt here and the powers that be - who did control the election process - were doing their best to make sure he didnt win. His proxy won despite their best efforts.

So people turn around and say the peasants are too ignorant and stupid to vote. That, I'm afraid is democracy. I dont like it much either. But I will take it over military dictatorship any day.

[hammered]

So after reading posts, talking to family and friends and other Thais in our Province (Chiang Mai) and reading various newspapers, sifting though the garbage and finally making up my own mind, I came to the following conclusions...

1. If you have enough money, you can buy political parties, govenment officials and even people who were absolutely opposed to you before

2. Vote buying continues almost as usual, which makes the whole thing one big joke

3. The military government did do something for this country (for example reducing National Park Fees for foreigners, by 50 - 75%, which attracts tourists, continuing road construction and other projects, etc.)

4. This country just "elected" a goverment, that perviously did things like... double National Park fees to drive away foreign tourists from National Parks, tighten visa laws, to get rid of all those foreigners, who pumped millions of dollars into the Thai economy every month, lend money to poor farmers, who now lost their farms and homes, because they couldn't pay it back.

It ran on a platform to bring back a leader that is still up on corruption charges.

5. Democracy is highly overrated. I see people arround the world, going to the polling booths, like sheep line up for the slaughter. Lets face it...money buys votes all around the world, in every democracy. Back home, in Canada, we had Media Giants like Konrad Black, who would take out full-page ads in their own papers, supporting a particular party. He would fire editors, who would speak against his views. Big money buys elections in democracies, no matter where you live. Maybe here it's cash in hand and in other countries, it's being bombarded by advertising and rhetoric of the rich, but as long as people can't think for themselves, the result will be the same around the world.

6. Some people think education is the answer and so do I. Then again thought control isn't. Education to me is to teach people to think for themselves, not just to fill them with generations full of outdated knowledge. Mankind evolves, because a few of us can think for themselves, challenge outdated and wrong concepts, question everything and come up with creative answers.

7. Democracy doesn't work, Communism doesn't work, Libertarianism doesn't work... nothing works, except for all the poor farmers and factory slaves, who have to work their butts of, so everyone on the top can sit on their fat a**es.

It's a sad world we are living in. Will it ever change? Probably not...oh well, back to my beer

Happy Holidays everyone

The anfrel foreign observers highlighted vote buying and the apparent inaction of the police and EC to act against it as the most damning part of this election, which they otherwise gave fairly high marks. Strangely, consdiering this comes from a neutral foreign body, it seems to be getting little coverage in the media.

However, it is good to see the observers announcing this publically.

Anfrel, a regional network of civil society organisations, sent international observers to all eight zones, and said it would observe any by-elections organised in the coming weeks.

Despite new legislation, money politics remains pervasive, said Mr Magbual, adding that people were scared to report vote-buying to authorities because they feared for their safety and doubted anyone would be successfully prosecuted.

Sakool Zuesongdham, another Anfrel member, criticised the EC for half-heartedly handling complaints and accused police of maintaining a ''neutral gear'' attitude against voters' complaints.

Mr Sakool encouraged people paid bribes to file complaints within seven days. The EC should sincerely investigate the cases and give red or yellow cards not only to the elected, but also to non-elected bribe-givers.

He said some government officials, particularly village headmen, were not neutral. ''They continue to canvass for political parties and are even on polling station committees, where they can potentially influence voters,'' he said.

[Jai Dee]

AEC affirms to press on despite potential disbanding

Assets Examination Committee (AEC) Chairman Nam Yimyaem (นาม ยิ้มแย้ม) revealed that the committee has set a date for People’s Power Party leader Samak Sundaravej to meet with lawyers over a case concerning the purchase of fire trucks and vehicles for Bangkok. He stated that the date will not postponed as any appeal to change the scheduled meeting must be submitted 15 days prior.

Mr. Nam also commented on the potential for Mr. Samak to head the majority seat holding party of Parliament, thus putting him in the position of leader of the government. Mr. Nam said that he was not concerned over the matter and said the AEC will press on with its work despite speculation it might be disbanded.

The AEC Chairman said that the committee would continue to pursue cases until it is ordered to cease but stated that the disbanding of the AEC would have to be done under the rule of the constitution. He remarked that even if the AEC were halted, the cases it is dealing with would still be active within the judicial system.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 December 2007

[Jai Dee]

PPP Secretariat denies using billion baht to win government

People’s Power Party Secretariat Doctor Surapong Suebwonglee has denied claims that he spent 1 billion baht to bargain for the establishment of the government and gain the Prime Minister’s seat for the party.

Doctor Surapong also stated that rumors the Chart Thai party negotiated the Prime Minister’s position in exchange for joining the coalition were untrue. He stated that the claims were not rooted in fact because his party’s leader Samak Sundaravej has not even with met with Chart Thai leader Banharn Silapaarcha.

Doctor Surapong stated that the party would not need to engage in such negotiations as it holds a strong amount of seats in Parliament. He stated that the party is only calling for a coalition to promote unity with the government.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 December 2007

[Plus]

The Nation quoted these headlines from foreign media (British, as it happens):

"Thailand military rule rejected by voters", read the Daily Telegraph of the United Kingdom. The newspaper said the result was a "damning verdict" on the junta. Another British paper, The Guardian, suggested "Election triumph could herald Thaksin return"...

The fact - the only party campaigning on "no coup" platform gets 36% of the votes, the other 64% can't care less and the "junta stooges" Democrats get even more votes than PPP.

They shouldn't be speaking about "people" while counting constituency seats.

PPP has got more MPs, they can do whatever they want with them, but don't speak about "people" because the numbers don't correllate.

Why don't you all stop whining at the bloody obvious, and start wondering WHAT the Democrat party can do to become more palatable to more people? Of course they can't be everything to everyone all the time, but it's clear they need more voters. So which strategy do you see for them that would gain them electoral success?

First you should realise that they nealry doubled their vote count since 2005, so they must be doing something right.

I think there's some potential to woo urban and almost-urban folks in many districts where they're currently not achieving anything.

The poster apparently has no clue about Democrat traditional support base.

>>>>

PPP has revealed that it got a big coalition with every party joing hands bla bla bla, it will be officialy unveiled on Jan 3. Great, except not even the smallest parties said anything about joining that grande coalition.

In the meantime PPP also revealed the proposed Cabinet line up. Thanong Bidaya gets Economy while Mingkwan gets Finance, Chalerm is taking over Interior, Surapong Health. One thing missing though - their shoo in coalition partners without whom this Cabinet wouldn't happen.

I don't know what exactly the Democrats are playing, maybe they just want to sit back and watch PPP self destruct through sheer arrogance and incompetence.

For the "party for the poor" brigade - Thanong and Mingkwan will make sure that not one baht from the richest Thais gets spent on taxes or welfare, the well off Thais can't find any better defenders of their "rights". Instead they'll probably further "expand the tax base" to pay off the voters, or start another illegal lottery or something.

[HobbsTheFerociousTiger]

i hope you are right but the exact opposite has been seen for both PPP/TRT leaders (Samak/Thaksin) on October 6, 1976 massacre (Samak) and the on October 25, 2004 takbai massacre (Thaksin) in the south.

You no what, forging history like that makes me mad.

Firs of all, ALL massacres were purpotrated by the military, the same military that so many hear were so delighted to see in government for the past year.

Secondly, Tak Bai is not a massacre in the same vein as the 1976 and 1992 massacres of unarmed people protesting for democracy.

The difference is, and it saddens me to have to point this out, that in 1976 and 1992 the military ACTIVELY SHOT TO KILL at unarmed protesters.

Tak Bai on the other hand was a <deleted>-up by the military, the same military alright, but at least it was a tragic accident in the way people died after being improperly transported in too few trucks. The resources weren't there to handle the detainees.

Furthermore, and this saddens me even more to have to point this out, in 1976 and 1992 the backdrop was peaceful protests to try to bring democracy to Thailand. In the South, the backdrop is monks, women and children being slaughtered by Muslim extremist thugs.

Thank you.

[blaze]

So after reading posts, talking to family and friends and other Thais in our Province (Chiang Mai) and reading various newspapers, sifting though the garbage and finally making up my own mind, I came to the following conclusions...

5. Democracy is highly overrated.

7. Democracy doesn't work,

A refreshingly honest context within which to understand your apparant support of the junta. I think you would find more THais than would admit it that agree with you- and possibly even foreigners from established democracies. These are truly scary times. And not just for THailand.

[Jai Dee]

Former Pua Paendin strategist says party must be ready for all roles

Former Pua Paendin Chairman of Policies and Strategies Surakiat Sathienthai (สุรเกียรติ์ เสถียรไทย) met with other party members for lunch yesterday. During their meal he commented that the party must be ready to take on the role of government or opposition.

Mr. Surakiat stated for the longevity of the party, it must be able to take on all roles whether it be the government or opposition. He stated that in politics, parties must be equipped to serve all purposes with the changing situation.

The present party members decided to bring up Mr. Surakiat’s comments during the parties meeting today.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 December 2007

[Jai Dee]

EC still mulling over red and yellow card cases

The Election Commission yesterday issued 30 more red and yellow card cases on the table for discussion and consideration after issuing 3 yellow cards to MP’s of the People’s Power Party. EC Chairman Apichart Sukakanont (อภิชาต สุขัคคานนท์) stated the commission is expediting its review of the cases.

Mr. Apichart though stated the EC is taking all the cases seriously and bringing them to discussion based on their order without giving any priority to any case. He stated that 30 new cases have been brought up for consideration and the EC is attempting to decide on them soon, but provincial election commissions have submitted new information and notes on some of the cases causing for more deliberations.

The EC has also been appealed by the 3 yellow carded MP’s and will have to deal with the matter accordingly.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 27 December 2007

[kurtgruen]

Tak Bai on the other hand was a <deleted>-up by the military, the same military alright, but at least it was a tragic accident in the way people died after being improperly transported in too few trucks. The resources weren't there to handle the detainees.

Thank you.

Tragic accident???? Did you see the footage? That's like saying that thousands of jews who died being cramped into German railway carts met with a tragic accident. Give me a break. What happened to Human Rights in Tak Bai?

To me, there is absolutely no excuse for someone like Thaksin. He was a brutal dictator, hiding behind so-called democracy. I think it will be a sad day for Thailand, if his party takes power.