Exit Poll Results Show PPP Wins

[Prakanong]

And don't forget to ban them for 5 years. Otherwise they just switch party and continue.

Some MP's will run out of family members to run for them real quick.

yeah, right !

let remain only oh so "CLEAN", pure and honest Democrats

and give them Banharn to help with "national reconciliation" !

and then ....

let the party begin !

oh, the fun of milking the country without any obstacles, all by themselves - as they did before 2001 !

well, with generals getting good share of course !

Why not just let the junta carry on like Myanma and <deleted> democracy?

I bet farangs would be queuing up from everywhere in the world to come and live in thailand.

Afterall that was a good junta and a nice coup.

Some of the semi-legal visa runners would support the junta with all of their heart if they relaxed the rules to allow then to continue living in Thailand against the spitir of the law and even more so if they are working here on a dodgy basis.

The early closure of bar's is another issue with many of them and some were predicting the meltdown of the tourist industry due to this which has not occured either.

Its amazing how they apply different value judgements to the Thai polity than they would to their own - just how many on this and other Thai boards give the reason for leaving the likes of the UK as too many immigrants - oh the irony!

[John K]

After reading the last several post about bad boy politicians causing their parties to get dissolved, the democrats may be the last man standing.

[thaigene2]

After reading the last several post about bad boy politicians causing their parties to get dissolved, the democrats may be the last man standing.

I'm sure it was planned this way all along.

[sriracha john]

PPP's Yellow-carded Udon Thani MP-elects Clarifies New Vote Campaign

The People Power Party's Udon Thani MP candidates who have been yellow-carded by the poll panel have filed a letter to the provincial Election Commission and the deputy commissioner of the Udon Thani Provincial Police Office, to clarify their new approach for vote-campaigning for the upcoming by-election.

Meanwhile, the Election Commission hands another yellow card to a People Power MP-elect from Sakon Nakhon province.

The Election Commission announces today that it has issued a yellow card to the Sakon Nakhon Constituency 1 MP-elect from the People Power Party Chalermchart Karun. It also endorsed an additional four MP-elects from the People Power Party.

In the meantime, Udon Thani's Constituency 1 MP-elects from the People Power Party who have been yellow-carded by the Election Commission, along with their canvassers and supporters, travelled to Udon Thani Provincial Town Hall to file a letter to explain their methods of vote campaigning to the Udon Thani governor.

Udon Thani's Deputy Governor Kong-ekwilart Rujiwattanapong received the letter on behalf of the governor.

The three Udon Thani constituency 1 MP-elects from the People Power Party who have been yellow-carded are Suratin Pimarnmaekin, Anan Sriphan, and Cherdchai Wichienwan.

Asked about the preparations for the upcoming by-election, which will be held on January 20th, the yellow-carded MP-elects said they have requested related state agencies including the provincial EC for permission to allow them to make speeches in a steel cage attached to a six-wheeler truck.

*A publicity stunt that may ironically come to pass in reality?*

They will also eat and sleep in the cage from 6pm until 7am in the morning before leaving to gather votes from local residents.

The yellow-carded MP-elects added that their action aims to express that they were innocent and did not commit any wrongdoing or poll fraud during the vote campaign for the general election, as ruled by the Election Commission.

The People Power Party's Udon Thani MP candidates also asked the provincial EC office to send officials to observe their by-election campaigning for transparency.

The group then made their way to the Udon Thani Provincial Police Office to request permission to use loudspeakers during their election campaigns and filed the same letter to the provincial police office.

The Deputy Commissioner of the Udon Thani Provincial Police Office, Police Colonel Sakda Wongsiriyanond received the letter and said he will pass it on to his superior.

- Thailand Outlook

[younghusband]

I do not think Mr Walker is the only economist to dismiss the economic theory of "Sufficiency economy" and I do not think those others base their idea's on TV either.

I didn't call those others morons. In fact I called Walker a moron after reading how Thailand lacks a culture of respect for the voice of the majority.

Nevertheless it is not only Andrew Walker that believes that Thailand lacks a culture of respect for the majority.It is also my belief and no doubt rather than discussing the issues you would also just label me a "moron" as well.So be it.The problem is that despite the cheesey "love my country" rhetoric and the carefully manipulated hysterical nationalistic outpourings, there is surprisingly little genuine sense of society in Thailand.By this I mean that the elite and its hangers on feel it has the right to block or veto the majority's legitimate aspirations.There is also, in all honesty, a rarely mentioned but valid ethnic dimension in that the elite and even Bangkok itself has become predominantly a Sino Thai grouping with limited cultural affiliation with the Thai majority except in the master-servant relationship (using that term in the broadest sense).One doesn't want to overstress this latter aspect since Thailand has managed this so much better than its regional neighbours, but to ignore it would be to neglect the full picture.

The culture of disrespect does not of course mean that there isn't unity on special national occasions or countless examples of sacrifice, affection and goodwill.However the sad truth is that the urban elite becomes enraged at any suggestion that the great unwashed, so to speak, has in view of their numbers the right to a greater share of national resources or -horror of horrors- the right to a greater influence on the country's political direction.The counter argument is always couched in terms that imply the majority are unsophisticated, corrupt (seduced by vote buying), ill educated and (the one that always make me laugh because it is so comically hypocritical and dishonest) less concerned for the welfare of the whole country than their urban cousins.Having said all this there's no doubt in my mind that Thailand is a family but as George Orwell said of the English it is one where the wrong members are in control.To continue the English theme there will be no march to the barricades in Thailand but an evolutionary change.Gravity and time are irresistable and Thaksin unwittingly no doubt has been the most recent significant catalyst.The current political machinations in some sense have limited relevance because the forces that will shape Thailand's future political landscape are clear.

In the latest Baker/Pasuk collection of essays (Thai Capital after the 1997 Crisis) there is an interesting comment in the conclusion.

" The poiltical disorder of Thailand in the 1990's is founded deep down on the wide income gap between top and bottom in Thai society.Populism has grown in its appeal because of the massive demand for fairer treatment.The elite has reacted fiercely against this populism (my comment: for populism read Thaksin perhaps) precisely because it has so much to lose......The solution has to be more democracy, and more continuous democracy over the long term"

Until these issues are properly addressed by the educated and middle class, Andrew Walker's description of the lack of culture of respect for the majority is on the money.The use of abusive language to describe what is really a self evident truth simply highlights the rage the elite and its apologists feel when challenged.I have no problem with middle class and educated leadership - in fact I prefer it - and I still hope and pray that Khun Abhisit will have a chance to show what enlightened government means.

[sriracha john]

Poll agency disqualifies elected PPP Udon candidate

Another candidate of the People Power Party (PPP) elected in the December 23 general election was issued a red card Thursday denying him the chance to run again in a by-election.

Prasop Busarakham, the PPP candidate who successfully contested the race for the parliamentary seat in Udon Thani province's Constituency 3, had earlier been given a yellow card, which would have allowed him to rerun.

Election Commission Secretary-General Dr Suthiphon Thaveechaiyagarn told journalists the Election Commission (EC) voted 4 to 1 to stiffen the penalty for Prasop, a six-time MP of the northeastern province and a former Deputy Agriculture Minister, after the polling agency had found him more deeply connected with alleged electoral wrongdoings than was initially seen.

So far seven candidates contesting in individual constituencies have been handed red cards which

denies them the chance to rerun in by-elections due later this month.

So far the seven red-carded candidates include four PPP contestants, two Chart Thai contenders and one Matchima Thipataya candidate.

In addition, a dozen others, mostly having run under the PPP banner, have been given yellow cards which allows them to rerun in bid to get re-elected in the by-election.

The PPP, which won last month's election, is largely made up of former MPs of the disbanded Thai Rak Thai party founded by deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

- MCOT

[blaze]

I do not think Mr Walker is the only economist to dismiss the economic theory of "Sufficiency economy" and I do not think those others base their idea's on TV either.

I didn't call those others morons. In fact I called Walker a moron after reading how Thailand lacks a culture of respect for the voice of the majority.

Nevertheless it is not only Andrew Walker that believes that Thailand lacks a culture of respect for the majority.It is also my belief and no doubt rather than discussing the issues you would also just label me a "moron" as well.So be it.The problem is that despite the cheesey "love my country" rhetoric and the carefully manipulated hysterical nationalistic outpourings, there is surprisingly little genuine sense of society in Thailand.By this I mean that the elite and its hangers on feel it has the right to block or veto the majority's legitimate aspirations.There is also, in all honesty, a rarely mentioned but valid ethnic dimension in that the elite and even Bangkok itself has become predominantly a Sino Thai grouping with limited cultural affiliation with the Thai majority except in the master-servant relationship (using that term in the broadest sense).One doesn't want to overstress this latter aspect since Thailand has managed this so much better than its regional neighbours, but to ignore it would be to neglect the full picture.

The culture of disrespect does not of course mean that there isn't unity on special national occasions or countless examples of sacrifice, affection and goodwill.However the sad truth is that the urban elite becomes enraged at any suggestion that the great unwashed, so to speak, has in view of their numbers the right to a greater share of national resources or -horror of horrors- the right to a greater influence on the country's political direction.The counter argument is always couched in terms that imply the majority are unsophisticated, corrupt (seduced by vote buying), ill educated and (the one that always make me laugh because it is so comically hypocritical and dishonest) less concerned for the welfare of the whole country than their urban cousins.Having said all this there's no doubt in my mind that Thailand is a family but as George Orwell said of the English it is one where the wrong members are in control.To continue the English theme there will be no march to the barricades in Thailand but an evolutionary change.Gravity and time are irresistable and Thaksin unwittingly no doubt has been the most recent significant catalyst.The current political machinations in some sense have limited relevance because the forces that will shape Thailand's future political landscape are clear.

In the latest Baker/Pasuk collection of essays (Thai Capital after the 1997 Crisis) there is an interesting comment in the conclusion.

" The poiltical disorder of Thailand in the 1990's is founded deep down on the wide income gap between top and bottom in Thai society.Populism has grown in its appeal because of the massive demand for fairer treatment.The elite has reacted fiercely against this populism (my comment: for populism read Thaksin perhaps) precisely because it has so much to lose......The solution has to be more democracy, and more continuous democracy over the long term"

Until these issues are properly addressed by the educated and middle class, Andrew Walker's description of the lack of culture of respect for the majority is on the money.The use of abusive language to describe what is really a self evident truth simply highlights the rage the elite and its apologists feel when challenged.I have no problem with middle class and educated leadership - in fact I prefer it - and I still hope and pray that Khun Abhisit will have a chance to show what enlightened government means.

excellent analysis YH.

[hammered]

Not to say it was not expected.

Going back to post 883 on page 36 you will see.....

They said any coalition leader they would join must agree to their conditions: reverence for the monarchy, respect for Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda, no revenge against political foes, no interference into the judicial process against ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra, and no dissolution of the Assets Examination Committee.

That set up a wonderful show by Samak pretending to be whatever about this.

Now they have approached the democrats with

The Democrat Party was contacted by a close aide of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra asking them to join a People Power Party (PPP) government last week but the Democrats declined the offer, a Democrat source said yesterday.

Later, Thaksin's close aide contacted them again proposing another option - to let the Democrats form the government on the condition they help Thaksin with his legal cases.

The Democrats also turned down this offer, said the source.

In other news posts it seems the PPP has already concluded that they will be dissolved.

PPP eyes Palang Pandin Thai as new vehicle if party dissolved

Leading members of the People Power Party are eying the Palang Pandin Thai of Somsak Worakhamin if the PPP is dissolved, a well-informed source said.

The source said if the PPP is dissolved for either breaking the election or party laws, its MPs would switch to join the party of Somsak.

The tone of their comments strongly suggest they know what will be found. Add to that Thaksin changing his flag to another party (thus making easy to see what party will be dissolved next by the poison touch of Thaksin) says he sees it too. Knowing what will be found indicated foreknowledge and guilt.

Even amongst those that do not like Thaksin and do not support PPP there are a lot of people who do not want to see another disolution. I am not saying it wont happen but support for it will be low.

There is also the question of do we have 230 ish by elections or another complete general election and in the meantime who runs the country? There is a divide imho now between the elite/military and their aims and tactics and the voters who voted for parties other than PPP. It is starting to be that you have the eleceted PPP plus Thaksin, and you have an elected non-PPP parlaimentary group based around the Dems and you have the coup group. The PPP look liek they will be in power barring extreme action against them. The Dems and their supporters even in opposition have their own power to question and to be publically heard as it will be very very hard for PPP to muzzle the voice of the elected opposition as much as TRT used to especially in a divided country. The coup group though really have very little to no protection as virtually every agency is subject to change by the government and there is little to no support for a coup. This leaves them to do a deal now which will leave them temporarily protected but in the longer term copmpletely isolated as the deal they do will almost inevitbaly leave them unpopular with the supporters of the parliamentary opposition.

Interesting but unpredctable times

[John K]

After reading the last several post about bad boy politicians causing their parties to get dissolved, the democrats may be the last man standing.

I'm sure it was planned this way all along.

Someone actually suggested to me last night that by not having international observers the bad boy politicians would be too tempted to be bad thus giving them their own hanging rope. I must admit is certainly is a plausible theory. It actually matches what Sonthi was doing a few months back.

[Prakanong]

I do not think Mr Walker is the only economist to dismiss the economic theory of "Sufficiency economy" and I do not think those others base their idea's on TV either.

I didn't call those others morons. In fact I called Walker a moron after reading how Thailand lacks a culture of respect for the voice of the majority.

Nevertheless it is not only Andrew Walker that believes that Thailand lacks a culture of respect for the majority.It is also my belief and no doubt rather than discussing the issues you would also just label me a "moron" as well.So be it.The problem is that despite the cheesey "love my country" rhetoric and the carefully manipulated hysterical nationalistic outpourings, there is surprisingly little genuine sense of society in Thailand.By this I mean that the elite and its hangers on feel it has the right to block or veto the majority's legitimate aspirations.There is also, in all honesty, a rarely mentioned but valid ethnic dimension in that the elite and even Bangkok itself has become predominantly a Sino Thai grouping with limited cultural affiliation with the Thai majority except in the master-servant relationship (using that term in the broadest sense).One doesn't want to overstress this latter aspect since Thailand has managed this so much better than its regional neighbours, but to ignore it would be to neglect the full picture.

The culture of disrespect does not of course mean that there isn't unity on special national occasions or countless examples of sacrifice, affection and goodwill.However the sad truth is that the urban elite becomes enraged at any suggestion that the great unwashed, so to speak, has in view of their numbers the right to a greater share of national resources or -horror of horrors- the right to a greater influence on the country's political direction.The counter argument is always couched in terms that imply the majority are unsophisticated, corrupt (seduced by vote buying), ill educated and (the one that always make me laugh because it is so comically hypocritical and dishonest) less concerned for the welfare of the whole country than their urban cousins.Having said all this there's no doubt in my mind that Thailand is a family but as George Orwell said of the English it is one where the wrong members are in control.To continue the English theme there will be no march to the barricades in Thailand but an evolutionary change.Gravity and time are irresistable and Thaksin unwittingly no doubt has been the most recent significant catalyst.The current political machinations in some sense have limited relevance because the forces that will shape Thailand's future political landscape are clear.

In the latest Baker/Pasuk collection of essays (Thai Capital after the 1997 Crisis) there is an interesting comment in the conclusion.

" The poiltical disorder of Thailand in the 1990's is founded deep down on the wide income gap between top and bottom in Thai society.Populism has grown in its appeal because of the massive demand for fairer treatment.The elite has reacted fiercely against this populism (my comment: for populism read Thaksin perhaps) precisely because it has so much to lose......The solution has to be more democracy, and more continuous democracy over the long term"

Until these issues are properly addressed by the educated and middle class, Andrew Walker's description of the lack of culture of respect for the majority is on the money.The use of abusive language to describe what is really a self evident truth simply highlights the rage the elite and its apologists feel when challenged.I have no problem with middle class and educated leadership - in fact I prefer it - and I still hope and pray that Khun Abhisit will have a chance to show what enlightened government means.

excellent analysis YH.

Yes excellent.

The hypocracy bit is spot on as it is these elites are up to their elbows in corruption themselves and have been for generations.

[John K]

Hammered, Thaksin has nothing to lose here so he will continue to use and then discard people all along the way. You make it sound like it is the governments choice, when in actuality it is the actions of the banned 111 that will decide if another party goes down. If they stay away the party will survive. The democrats were smart enough to say stay away to Thaksin.

[sriracha john]

Thailand's winning party to set up new party if dissolved

The People Power Party (PPP) of Thailand, which won last month's general election by 233 parliament seats, said on Friday that it can set up a new party if it loses the lawsuits seeking its dissolution.

Chalerm Yoobamrung, deputy leader of the PPP, said on Friday that if the PPP loses the lawsuits against it on suspected election frauds, the party may be dissolved.

However, he said his party is not afraid of dissolution and can find a new party or set up a new party in time for its MPs (Members of Parliament) to join.

After the general election on Dec. 23, 2007, the PPP won 233 of the 480 parliament seats. However, the Election Commission said the election agency has got many reports of election fraud cases and it will rely on evidence to rule on how many red and yellow cards to be issued on electoral frauds.

According to the election law, a candidate who was issued with a red card will be disqualified in the by-elections which is now set on Jan. 20, while a candidate with a yellow card still can re-contest the by-elections.

So far, the PPP has got four red cards and seven yellow cards.

Meanwhile, local news network The Nation reported on Friday that leading members of the PPP are eyeing the Palang Pandin Thai Party (Thai Land Power Party) if the PPP is dissolved.

The report said if the PPP is dissolved for either breaking the election or party laws, its MPs would switch to join the Palang Pandin Thai Party.

- Xinhua

[meemiathai]

After reading the last several post about bad boy politicians causing their parties to get dissolved, the democrats may be the last man standing.

Did you realize at least one of them were written by the author of Harry Potter?

[meemiathai]

I do not think Mr Walker is the only economist to dismiss the economic theory of "Sufficiency economy" and I do not think those others base their idea's on TV either.

I didn't call those others morons. In fact I called Walker a moron after reading how Thailand lacks a culture of respect for the voice of the majority.

Nevertheless it is not only Andrew Walker that believes that Thailand lacks a culture of respect for the majority.It is also my belief and no doubt rather than discussing the issues you would also just label me a "moron" as well.So be it.The problem is that despite the cheesey "love my country" rhetoric and the carefully manipulated hysterical nationalistic outpourings, there is surprisingly little genuine sense of society in Thailand.By this I mean that the elite and its hangers on feel it has the right to block or veto the majority's legitimate aspirations.There is also, in all honesty, a rarely mentioned but valid ethnic dimension in that the elite and even Bangkok itself has become predominantly a Sino Thai grouping with limited cultural affiliation with the Thai majority except in the master-servant relationship (using that term in the broadest sense).One doesn't want to overstress this latter aspect since Thailand has managed this so much better than its regional neighbours, but to ignore it would be to neglect the full picture.

The culture of disrespect does not of course mean that there isn't unity on special national occasions or countless examples of sacrifice, affection and goodwill.However the sad truth is that the urban elite becomes enraged at any suggestion that the great unwashed, so to speak, has in view of their numbers the right to a greater share of national resources or -horror of horrors- the right to a greater influence on the country's political direction.The counter argument is always couched in terms that imply the majority are unsophisticated, corrupt (seduced by vote buying), ill educated and (the one that always make me laugh because it is so comically hypocritical and dishonest) less concerned for the welfare of the whole country than their urban cousins.Having said all this there's no doubt in my mind that Thailand is a family but as George Orwell said of the English it is one where the wrong members are in control.To continue the English theme there will be no march to the barricades in Thailand but an evolutionary change.Gravity and time are irresistable and Thaksin unwittingly no doubt has been the most recent significant catalyst.The current political machinations in some sense have limited relevance because the forces that will shape Thailand's future political landscape are clear.

In the latest Baker/Pasuk collection of essays (Thai Capital after the 1997 Crisis) there is an interesting comment in the conclusion.

" The poiltical disorder of Thailand in the 1990's is founded deep down on the wide income gap between top and bottom in Thai society.Populism has grown in its appeal because of the massive demand for fairer treatment.The elite has reacted fiercely against this populism (my comment: for populism read Thaksin perhaps) precisely because it has so much to lose......The solution has to be more democracy, and more continuous democracy over the long term"

Until these issues are properly addressed by the educated and middle class, Andrew Walker's description of the lack of culture of respect for the majority is on the money.The use of abusive language to describe what is really a self evident truth simply highlights the rage the elite and its apologists feel when challenged.I have no problem with middle class and educated leadership - in fact I prefer it - and I still hope and pray that Khun Abhisit will have a chance to show what enlightened government means.

excellent analysis YH.

Seconded.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

UNITED NATIONS / ANTI-CORRUPTION CONVENTION

Ministry delays new graft laws

"Mr Wanchai admitted Thailand still faces difficulties in law enforcement as officials still adhere to a patronage system."

http://bangkokpost.com/News/12Jan2008_news06.php

Sums up the current situation in a nutshell.

Edited January 12, 2008 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[aaaaaa]

Interesting but unpredctable times

or may be rather too predictable?

elite hand in hand with generals will continue to milk the country.

populism will continue to be restricted.

corruption will go on too as usually ....

[aaaaaa]

.... the elite and even Bangkok itself has become predominantly a Sino Thai grouping with limited cultural affiliation with the Thai majority except in the master-servant relationship (using that term in the broadest sense). One doesn't want to overstress this latter aspect since Thailand has managed this so much better than its regional neighbours, but to ignore it would be to neglect the full picture.

that's a good point !

just enough to look in Wiki names of Thai former prime-ministers, generals, statesmen, magnates, politicians - and most of them if not all are said to belong to that very group you've mentioned !

I've read and heard this more than once before that it is this group which stalls or slows down self-awareness and practically any education or development of the rest of (normal or actual) Thais.

that actually explains a lot: it is not simply class struggle so to say - it is also an ethnic thing. and to deny or ignore it is illogical.

same as if one would try to deny that in the South it is also ethnic problem, not only religious.

[blaze]

YONGYUTH PROBE

Clock ticking for EC

MP will have to be endorsed if investigation is not completed by Tuesday

The Election Commission (EC) will have to endorse People Power Party (PPP) Deputy Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat as an MP if it cannot complete the investigation of electoral fraud allegedly involving him by Tuesday, EC member Sodsri Satayathum said yesterday.

The EC postponed ruling on the case after it appointed an ad-hoc panel of five members yesterday. Former Constitution Court judge Suwit Thirapong leads the panel, which will probe the case.

"If the panel cannot conclude the case by Tuesday, the EC will endorse Yongyuth as an MP," Sodsri said.

If he is found guilty in any further legal process, however, he will forfeit his seat, she said.

The EC has endorsed about 420 of 480 MPs-elect. Sonsri believed that by Tuesday the EC could approve more winning candidates to take the number to 456, or 95 per cent, the figure legally needed to convene the first House session.

The Panel's members will go to Chiang Rai, the home province of Yongyuth, to renew the process of interrogating witnesses, Sodsri said.

The EC will show Yongyuth a video clip that allegedly shows his involvement, she said.

Yongyuth says he is being framed to annul his victory as a party-list candidate in Zone 1 and disband the PPP as a penalty. He says the video clip linking him to fraud has mysteriously disappeared since he asked that experts be allowed to determine if it had been doctored.

He says electoral officials told him the clip was in the hands of the Special Branch investigators in charge of the case but he was unable to locate it because they refused to answer his telephone calls. Meanwhile, Maj-General Chaiya Siriamphankul of the Special Branch handed the video disc with the controversial clip to the EC.

The EC yesterday disqualified two candidates from the PPP and Democrat parties.

Chalermchart Karun, PPP candidate for Sakon Nakhon's Constituency 1, and Charnchai Issarasenarak, Democrat candidate for Nakhon Nayok's Constituency 1, were given yellow cards by the EC for poll violations.

The EC said it needed more investigation in Sakon Nakhon's Constituency 1 and had to have the result in seven days.

The EC also endorsed three PPP candidates in Kalasin's Constituency 1, Boonruen Sritharet, Weerawat Osathanu-kroh and Khomdej Chaisiwamongkol, and Vichien Udomsak in Amnat Charoen's Constituency 1.

As of yesterday 424 members of Parliament had been endorsed.

The Supreme Court yesterday dismissed an application by three disqualified candidates seeking to overturn their red cards in Buriram Constituency 1.

The court ruled it had no jurisdiction to launch an appellate review on red cards issued before the final endorsement of election results.

"The Election Commission has the mandate to disqualify any balloting results deemed fraudulent, and the judiciary has no purview to check on the supervision of the electoral process," it said, explaining that the judiciary could review an appeal only if the disqualification occurred after the endorsement of the outcome.

In the Buriram case, the commission issued the red cards and revoked voting rights for one year before the tallying of votes was endorsed, the ruling said. Those involved are Prakij Poldej, Pornchai Srisuriyanyothin and Rungroj Thongsri, all of the PPP. They declined to comment after hearing the ruling.

- The Nation

==========================

Interesting that another article points out that Yongyuth was given the opportunity to view the VCD, but he was too busy apparently and couldn't be bothered... which would take away a fair amount of his proclaimed self-righteous indignition...

EC: Time is on Yongyuth's side

Win may be endorsed if case not closed soon

The EC said it might be forced to endorse PPP candidate Yongyuth Tiyapairat first and deal with him later if its sub-committee looking into vote-buying allegations against him fails to wrap up its inquiry by Jan 15. However, EC member Sodsri Sattayatham said Yongyuth could be disqualified from being an MP later if the Supreme Court supervising election cases rules he is guilty after the EC's sub-panel's inquiry is complete. The sub-committee, headed by former Constitution Court judge Suwit Thirapong, was set up on Thursday to take over the poll fraud case against Yongyuth from the Special Branch Police. The first meeting of the Lower House must be held within 30 days of the election and at least 95% of the elected MPs must attend the first session. Mr Suwit said, ''We will do our best and submit the findings to the EC as soon as possible. We care more about accuracy than the time-frame,'' he said. He said he spent over an hour signing in the investigative file which contained seven folders and eight VCDs. Yongyuth did not turn up to view the VCDs yesterday. He was invited to watch them at 2 pm yesterday. The VCDs allegedly show him bribing local leaders in Chiang Rai to campaign for him and PPP candidates. Mr Suwit said the committee would fix a new meeting with Yongyuth as he had the right to see the evidence.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/12Jan2008_news03.php

==============================

which follows standard Thaksin & TRT tactics during most AEC investigations this past year.... delay, delay, delay....

The EC and Special Branch seem to find themselves in a bit of a pickle. Here was a slam dunk case of vote buying at the highest levels of the PPP- which very likely could- and to anyone concerned with rule of law, SHOULD- have resulted in the PPP being dismantled.

But for some reason- the case is turning out to be a bit less of a slam dunk than previously thought. Even to the point that some might legitimately wonder if a video exists at all. Or, if as hinted by Sondhri yesterday- the meeting itself was a possible frame-up (kamnans arriving in gov't cars).

Not only that, but there is a popular sentiment (judging from editorials in the Thai as well as English press) in the country that the PPP shouldn't be dissolved. Period. (Expediency and international image once again trumping rule of law).

So the EC seems to be saying- we got nothing on the guy- but if we- or anybody for that matter, do get something- boy, is he gonna get it!

In other words- we'll permit the PPP to form a government- (since that's what even the Dems seem to want now) but we will continue to insinuate that the gov't won through dirty tricks.

Problem is that Khun Y may just demand a full public release of the 'evidence'- and if that happens- then the Spec Branch at the least could be in very hot water. Not to mention the military people that he claims (and might be able to prove) are behind all this.

[hammered]

Thailand's winning party to set up new party if dissolved

The People Power Party (PPP) of Thailand, which won last month's general election by 233 parliament seats, said on Friday that it can set up a new party if it loses the lawsuits seeking its dissolution.

Chalerm Yoobamrung, deputy leader of the PPP, said on Friday that if the PPP loses the lawsuits against it on suspected election frauds, the party may be dissolved.

However, he said his party is not afraid of dissolution and can find a new party or set up a new party in time for its MPs (Members of Parliament) to join.

After the general election on Dec. 23, 2007, the PPP won 233 of the 480 parliament seats. However, the Election Commission said the election agency has got many reports of election fraud cases and it will rely on evidence to rule on how many red and yellow cards to be issued on electoral frauds.

According to the election law, a candidate who was issued with a red card will be disqualified in the by-elections which is now set on Jan. 20, while a candidate with a yellow card still can re-contest the by-elections.

So far, the PPP has got four red cards and seven yellow cards.

Meanwhile, local news network The Nation reported on Friday that leading members of the PPP are eyeing the Palang Pandin Thai Party (Thai Land Power Party) if the PPP is dissolved.

The report said if the PPP is dissolved for either breaking the election or party laws, its MPs would switch to join the Palang Pandin Thai Party.

- Xinhua

No no no please no more disolutions. I have no time for Mr. T and think most of the PPP MPs are a bunch of feudal overlord dinsosaurs but surely what the whole country has been through for the last year cant just be repeated. That would be a joke. Surely we arent going to see twenty six consecutive elections with ever more bizarre named parties replacing the previously disolved one until eventually the PPP or whatever they are then called eventually wins two thirds of all the seats, which is what will happen. Does Thailand spend a laregr proportion of GDP

It really is time for those respected on all sides to move this ahead even if they have to do some deal not entirely palatable to all. imho of course

[blaze]

Thailand's winning party to set up new party if dissolved

The People Power Party (PPP) of Thailand, which won last month's general election by 233 parliament seats, said on Friday that it can set up a new party if it loses the lawsuits seeking its dissolution.

Chalerm Yoobamrung, deputy leader of the PPP, said on Friday that if the PPP loses the lawsuits against it on suspected election frauds, the party may be dissolved.

However, he said his party is not afraid of dissolution and can find a new party or set up a new party in time for its MPs (Members of Parliament) to join.

After the general election on Dec. 23, 2007, the PPP won 233 of the 480 parliament seats. However, the Election Commission said the election agency has got many reports of election fraud cases and it will rely on evidence to rule on how many red and yellow cards to be issued on electoral frauds.

According to the election law, a candidate who was issued with a red card will be disqualified in the by-elections which is now set on Jan. 20, while a candidate with a yellow card still can re-contest the by-elections.

So far, the PPP has got four red cards and seven yellow cards.

Meanwhile, local news network The Nation reported on Friday that leading members of the PPP are eyeing the Palang Pandin Thai Party (Thai Land Power Party) if the PPP is dissolved.

The report said if the PPP is dissolved for either breaking the election or party laws, its MPs would switch to join the Palang Pandin Thai Party.

- Xinhua

No no no please no more disolutions. I have no time for Mr. T and think most of the PPP MPs are a bunch of feudal overlord dinsosaurs but surely what the whole country has been through for the last year cant just be repeated. That would be a joke. Surely we arent going to see twenty six consecutive elections with ever more bizarre named parties replacing the previously disolved one until eventually the PPP or whatever they are then called eventually wins two thirds of all the seats, which is what will happen. Does Thailand spend a laregr proportion of GDP

It really is time for those respected on all sides to move this ahead even if they have to do some deal not entirely palatable to all. imho of course

I have to disagree Hammered. If there is solid evidence against anyone for breaking electoral laws- then they must pay the price. But so far there has been precious little solid evidence (what did happen re those insruitable Chinese businessmen?).

It's too late to turn the clock back- the EC has basicially portrayed in the public mind (through releasing statements such as their having 'many' reports of fraud (which to a sizeable part of the public means PPP fraud), that the PPP is rotten and should not be governing the country.

This will do nothing for reconciliation.

If they got the goods- show them- bust the bad guys- dissolve the party if warrented... but if the cases are too thin- drop them and shut up about them.

But while I think that the PPP will be permitted to govern, they will do so with a cloud over their head. A cloud that the EC has played a significant although possible inadvertent, roll in making.

Edited January 12, 2008 by blaze

[hammered]

YONGYUTH PROBE

Clock ticking for EC

MP will have to be endorsed if investigation is not completed by Tuesday

The Election Commission (EC) will have to endorse People Power Party (PPP) Deputy Leader Yongyuth Tiyapairat as an MP if it cannot complete the investigation of electoral fraud allegedly involving him by Tuesday, EC member Sodsri Satayathum said yesterday.

The EC postponed ruling on the case after it appointed an ad-hoc panel of five members yesterday. Former Constitution Court judge Suwit Thirapong leads the panel, which will probe the case.

"If the panel cannot conclude the case by Tuesday, the EC will endorse Yongyuth as an MP," Sodsri said.

If he is found guilty in any further legal process, however, he will forfeit his seat, she said.

The EC has endorsed about 420 of 480 MPs-elect. Sonsri believed that by Tuesday the EC could approve more winning candidates to take the number to 456, or 95 per cent, the figure legally needed to convene the first House session.

The Panel's members will go to Chiang Rai, the home province of Yongyuth, to renew the process of interrogating witnesses, Sodsri said.

The EC will show Yongyuth a video clip that allegedly shows his involvement, she said.

Yongyuth says he is being framed to annul his victory as a party-list candidate in Zone 1 and disband the PPP as a penalty. He says the video clip linking him to fraud has mysteriously disappeared since he asked that experts be allowed to determine if it had been doctored.

He says electoral officials told him the clip was in the hands of the Special Branch investigators in charge of the case but he was unable to locate it because they refused to answer his telephone calls. Meanwhile, Maj-General Chaiya Siriamphankul of the Special Branch handed the video disc with the controversial clip to the EC.

The EC yesterday disqualified two candidates from the PPP and Democrat parties.

Chalermchart Karun, PPP candidate for Sakon Nakhon's Constituency 1, and Charnchai Issarasenarak, Democrat candidate for Nakhon Nayok's Constituency 1, were given yellow cards by the EC for poll violations.

The EC said it needed more investigation in Sakon Nakhon's Constituency 1 and had to have the result in seven days.

The EC also endorsed three PPP candidates in Kalasin's Constituency 1, Boonruen Sritharet, Weerawat Osathanu-kroh and Khomdej Chaisiwamongkol, and Vichien Udomsak in Amnat Charoen's Constituency 1.

As of yesterday 424 members of Parliament had been endorsed.

The Supreme Court yesterday dismissed an application by three disqualified candidates seeking to overturn their red cards in Buriram Constituency 1.

The court ruled it had no jurisdiction to launch an appellate review on red cards issued before the final endorsement of election results.

"The Election Commission has the mandate to disqualify any balloting results deemed fraudulent, and the judiciary has no purview to check on the supervision of the electoral process," it said, explaining that the judiciary could review an appeal only if the disqualification occurred after the endorsement of the outcome.

In the Buriram case, the commission issued the red cards and revoked voting rights for one year before the tallying of votes was endorsed, the ruling said. Those involved are Prakij Poldej, Pornchai Srisuriyanyothin and Rungroj Thongsri, all of the PPP. They declined to comment after hearing the ruling.

- The Nation

==========================

Interesting that another article points out that Yongyuth was given the opportunity to view the VCD, but he was too busy apparently and couldn't be bothered... which would take away a fair amount of his proclaimed self-righteous indignition...

EC: Time is on Yongyuth's side

Win may be endorsed if case not closed soon

The EC said it might be forced to endorse PPP candidate Yongyuth Tiyapairat first and deal with him later if its sub-committee looking into vote-buying allegations against him fails to wrap up its inquiry by Jan 15. However, EC member Sodsri Sattayatham said Yongyuth could be disqualified from being an MP later if the Supreme Court supervising election cases rules he is guilty after the EC's sub-panel's inquiry is complete. The sub-committee, headed by former Constitution Court judge Suwit Thirapong, was set up on Thursday to take over the poll fraud case against Yongyuth from the Special Branch Police. The first meeting of the Lower House must be held within 30 days of the election and at least 95% of the elected MPs must attend the first session. Mr Suwit said, ''We will do our best and submit the findings to the EC as soon as possible. We care more about accuracy than the time-frame,'' he said. He said he spent over an hour signing in the investigative file which contained seven folders and eight VCDs. Yongyuth did not turn up to view the VCDs yesterday. He was invited to watch them at 2 pm yesterday. The VCDs allegedly show him bribing local leaders in Chiang Rai to campaign for him and PPP candidates. Mr Suwit said the committee would fix a new meeting with Yongyuth as he had the right to see the evidence.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.net/News/12Jan2008_news03.php

==============================

which follows standard Thaksin & TRT tactics during most AEC investigations this past year.... delay, delay, delay....

The EC and Special Branch seem to find themselves in a bit of a pickle. Here was a slam dunk case of vote buying at the highest levels of the PPP- which very likely could- and to anyone concerned with rule of law, SHOULD- have resulted in the PPP being dismantled.

But for some reason- the case is turning out to be a bit less of a slam dunk than previously thought. Even to the point that some might legitimately wonder if a video exists at all. Or, if as hinted by Sondhri yesterday- the meeting itself was a possible frame-up (kamnans arriving in gov't cars).

Not only that, but there is a popular sentiment (judging from editorials in the Thai as well as English press) in the country that the PPP shouldn't be dissolved. Period. (Expediency and international image once again trumping rule of law).

So the EC seems to be saying- we got nothing on the guy- but if we- or anybody for that matter, do get something- boy, is he gonna get it!

In other words- we'll permit the PPP to form a government- (since that's what even the Dems seem to want now) but we will continue to insinuate that the gov't won through dirty tricks.

Problem is that Khun Y may just demand a full public release of the 'evidence'- and if that happens- then the Spec Branch at the least could be in very hot water. Not to mention the military people that he claims (and might be able to prove) are behind all this.

Another take on it could be as part of a deal. Wouldnt be the first time evidence disappeared. This would also fit with the delaying the outcome after all if they have the real video it is obvious and if they dont it is obvious the other way. Dont really see the need for a committee at all myself as it should be easy enough to sort out in about ten minutes! Still all speculation.

I personally cannot see anyone giving evidence againt this guy either. That would be extremely dangerous to say the least.

[hammered]

Thailand's winning party to set up new party if dissolved

The People Power Party (PPP) of Thailand, which won last month's general election by 233 parliament seats, said on Friday that it can set up a new party if it loses the lawsuits seeking its dissolution.

Chalerm Yoobamrung, deputy leader of the PPP, said on Friday that if the PPP loses the lawsuits against it on suspected election frauds, the party may be dissolved.

However, he said his party is not afraid of dissolution and can find a new party or set up a new party in time for its MPs (Members of Parliament) to join.

After the general election on Dec. 23, 2007, the PPP won 233 of the 480 parliament seats. However, the Election Commission said the election agency has got many reports of election fraud cases and it will rely on evidence to rule on how many red and yellow cards to be issued on electoral frauds.

According to the election law, a candidate who was issued with a red card will be disqualified in the by-elections which is now set on Jan. 20, while a candidate with a yellow card still can re-contest the by-elections.

So far, the PPP has got four red cards and seven yellow cards.

Meanwhile, local news network The Nation reported on Friday that leading members of the PPP are eyeing the Palang Pandin Thai Party (Thai Land Power Party) if the PPP is dissolved.

The report said if the PPP is dissolved for either breaking the election or party laws, its MPs would switch to join the Palang Pandin Thai Party.

- Xinhua

No no no please no more disolutions. I have no time for Mr. T and think most of the PPP MPs are a bunch of feudal overlord dinsosaurs but surely what the whole country has been through for the last year cant just be repeated. That would be a joke. Surely we arent going to see twenty six consecutive elections with ever more bizarre named parties replacing the previously disolved one until eventually the PPP or whatever they are then called eventually wins two thirds of all the seats, which is what will happen. Does Thailand spend a laregr proportion of GDP

It really is time for those respected on all sides to move this ahead even if they have to do some deal not entirely palatable to all. imho of course

I have to disagree Hammered. If there is solid evidence against anyone for breaking electoral laws- then they must pay the price. But so far there has been precious little solid evidence (what did happen re those insruitable Chinese businessmen?).

It's too late to turn the clock back- the EC has basicially portrayed in the public mind (through releasing statements such as their having 'many' reports of fraud (which to a sizeable part of the public means PPP fraud), that the PPP is rotten and should not be governing the country.

This will do nothing for reconciliation.

If they got the goods- show them- bust the bad guys- dissolve the party if warrented... but if the cases are too thin- drop them and shut up about them.

But while I think that the PPP will be permitted to govern, they will do so with a cloud over their head. A cloud that the EC has played a significant although possible inadvertent, roll in making.

I have no problem in those deserving of a red card getting one either now or up to a year after they were elected (as is the law) if there are grounds. In fact that should be encouraged. However, disolution? No thanks, and evidence for a case of that magnitude will always be either solid or questionable depedning on what side you are on. We shouldnt forget that courts dont decide on proven 100% facts (if such things exist) but on beyond reasonable doubt or on the preponderance of evidence depending on different courts. That in itself always leaves a decision open to question by those who want to especially in the highly charged politcal atmosphere of Thailand right now where many will be suspicious of a decision whatever it is. The independent bodies and their role in Thai democracy is going to be a major area of discussion for quite sometime imho.

My own feeling is that as a deal is done evidence will beconme less clear and likely to be seen. That unfortunately is probably how a number of these cases will go. Sometimes I feel we get caught up in the game of politcal manouvers played out on front of the media and in bizarre press events and stunts. This is not limited to the EC but to all players involved. To often recently I have though what a bunch of kids while watching what goes on. Sad really

[blaze]

Thailand's winning party to set up new party if dissolved

The People Power Party (PPP) of Thailand, which won last month's general election by 233 parliament seats, said on Friday that it can set up a new party if it loses the lawsuits seeking its dissolution.

Chalerm Yoobamrung, deputy leader of the PPP, said on Friday that if the PPP loses the lawsuits against it on suspected election frauds, the party may be dissolved.

However, he said his party is not afraid of dissolution and can find a new party or set up a new party in time for its MPs (Members of Parliament) to join.

After the general election on Dec. 23, 2007, the PPP won 233 of the 480 parliament seats. However, the Election Commission said the election agency has got many reports of election fraud cases and it will rely on evidence to rule on how many red and yellow cards to be issued on electoral frauds.

According to the election law, a candidate who was issued with a red card will be disqualified in the by-elections which is now set on Jan. 20, while a candidate with a yellow card still can re-contest the by-elections.

So far, the PPP has got four red cards and seven yellow cards.

Meanwhile, local news network The Nation reported on Friday that leading members of the PPP are eyeing the Palang Pandin Thai Party (Thai Land Power Party) if the PPP is dissolved.

The report said if the PPP is dissolved for either breaking the election or party laws, its MPs would switch to join the Palang Pandin Thai Party.

- Xinhua

No no no please no more disolutions. I have no time for Mr. T and think most of the PPP MPs are a bunch of feudal overlord dinsosaurs but surely what the whole country has been through for the last year cant just be repeated. That would be a joke. Surely we arent going to see twenty six consecutive elections with ever more bizarre named parties replacing the previously disolved one until eventually the PPP or whatever they are then called eventually wins two thirds of all the seats, which is what will happen. Does Thailand spend a laregr proportion of GDP

It really is time for those respected on all sides to move this ahead even if they have to do some deal not entirely palatable to all. imho of course

I have to disagree Hammered. If there is solid evidence against anyone for breaking electoral laws- then they must pay the price. But so far there has been precious little solid evidence (what did happen re those insruitable Chinese businessmen?).

It's too late to turn the clock back- the EC has basicially portrayed in the public mind (through releasing statements such as their having 'many' reports of fraud (which to a sizeable part of the public means PPP fraud), that the PPP is rotten and should not be governing the country.

This will do nothing for reconciliation.

If they got the goods- show them- bust the bad guys- dissolve the party if warrented... but if the cases are too thin- drop them and shut up about them.

But while I think that the PPP will be permitted to govern, they will do so with a cloud over their head. A cloud that the EC has played a significant although possible inadvertent, roll in making.

I have no problem in those deserving of a red card getting one either now or up to a year after they were elected (as is the law) if there are grounds. In fact that should be encouraged. However, disolution? No thanks, and evidence for a case of that magnitude will always be either solid or questionable depedning on what side you are on. We shouldnt forget that courts dont decide on proven 100% facts (if such things exist) but on beyond reasonable doubt or on the preponderance of evidence depending on different courts. That in itself always leaves a decision open to question by those who want to especially in the highly charged politcal atmosphere of Thailand right now where many will be suspicious of a decision whatever it is. The independent bodies and their role in Thai democracy is going to be a major area of discussion for quite sometime imho.

My own feeling is that as a deal is done evidence will beconme less clear and likely to be seen. That unfortunately is probably how a number of these cases will go. Sometimes I feel we get caught up in the game of politcal manouvers played out on front of the media and in bizarre press events and stunts. This is not limited to the EC but to all players involved. To often recently I have though what a bunch of kids while watching what goes on. Sad really

Here's a challenge to the Democrats: publicly state, that in the absense of evidence to the contrary, the PPP won the election fair and square. But they won't do that... they want to leave a bad taste in the public mouth while avoid seeing the largest party dissolved.

And it just might be that they are hoping that the remaining cases, including that concerning Yongyuth, are not pursued because it might be shown, to the public, that in fact the PPP did NOT engage in the level of electoral scams that it currently 'appears' they did.

(edit: metaphor removed since it made absolutely no sense)

Edited January 12, 2008 by blaze

[hammered]

Thailand's winning party to set up new party if dissolved

The People Power Party (PPP) of Thailand, which won last month's general election by 233 parliament seats, said on Friday that it can set up a new party if it loses the lawsuits seeking its dissolution.

Chalerm Yoobamrung, deputy leader of the PPP, said on Friday that if the PPP loses the lawsuits against it on suspected election frauds, the party may be dissolved.

However, he said his party is not afraid of dissolution and can find a new party or set up a new party in time for its MPs (Members of Parliament) to join.

After the general election on Dec. 23, 2007, the PPP won 233 of the 480 parliament seats. However, the Election Commission said the election agency has got many reports of election fraud cases and it will rely on evidence to rule on how many red and yellow cards to be issued on electoral frauds.

According to the election law, a candidate who was issued with a red card will be disqualified in the by-elections which is now set on Jan. 20, while a candidate with a yellow card still can re-contest the by-elections.

So far, the PPP has got four red cards and seven yellow cards.

Meanwhile, local news network The Nation reported on Friday that leading members of the PPP are eyeing the Palang Pandin Thai Party (Thai Land Power Party) if the PPP is dissolved.

The report said if the PPP is dissolved for either breaking the election or party laws, its MPs would switch to join the Palang Pandin Thai Party.

- Xinhua

No no no please no more disolutions. I have no time for Mr. T and think most of the PPP MPs are a bunch of feudal overlord dinsosaurs but surely what the whole country has been through for the last year cant just be repeated. That would be a joke. Surely we arent going to see twenty six consecutive elections with ever more bizarre named parties replacing the previously disolved one until eventually the PPP or whatever they are then called eventually wins two thirds of all the seats, which is what will happen. Does Thailand spend a laregr proportion of GDP

It really is time for those respected on all sides to move this ahead even if they have to do some deal not entirely palatable to all. imho of course

I have to disagree Hammered. If there is solid evidence against anyone for breaking electoral laws- then they must pay the price. But so far there has been precious little solid evidence (what did happen re those insruitable Chinese businessmen?).

It's too late to turn the clock back- the EC has basicially portrayed in the public mind (through releasing statements such as their having 'many' reports of fraud (which to a sizeable part of the public means PPP fraud), that the PPP is rotten and should not be governing the country.

This will do nothing for reconciliation.

If they got the goods- show them- bust the bad guys- dissolve the party if warrented... but if the cases are too thin- drop them and shut up about them.

But while I think that the PPP will be permitted to govern, they will do so with a cloud over their head. A cloud that the EC has played a significant although possible inadvertent, roll in making.

I have no problem in those deserving of a red card getting one either now or up to a year after they were elected (as is the law) if there are grounds. In fact that should be encouraged. However, disolution? No thanks, and evidence for a case of that magnitude will always be either solid or questionable depedning on what side you are on. We shouldnt forget that courts dont decide on proven 100% facts (if such things exist) but on beyond reasonable doubt or on the preponderance of evidence depending on different courts. That in itself always leaves a decision open to question by those who want to especially in the highly charged politcal atmosphere of Thailand right now where many will be suspicious of a decision whatever it is. The independent bodies and their role in Thai democracy is going to be a major area of discussion for quite sometime imho.

My own feeling is that as a deal is done evidence will beconme less clear and likely to be seen. That unfortunately is probably how a number of these cases will go. Sometimes I feel we get caught up in the game of politcal manouvers played out on front of the media and in bizarre press events and stunts. This is not limited to the EC but to all players involved. To often recently I have though what a bunch of kids while watching what goes on. Sad really

Here's a challenge to the Democrats: publicly state, that in the absense of evidence to the contrary, the PPP won the election fair and square. But they won't do that... they want to leave a bad taste in the public mouth while avoid seeing the largest party dissolved.

And it just might be that they are hoping that the remaining cases, including that concerning Yongyuth, are not pursued because it might be shown, to the public, that in fact the PPP did NOT engage in the level of electoral scams that it currently 'appears' they did.

(edit: metaphor removed since it made absolutely no sense)

Take a look at the last three paragraphs from this Thailand Outlook report. It may just be that the problems concerning government formation between PPP and Dems are diminishing or dont exist anymore, or at least according to the quoted PPP member. This of course could have ramifications for anyone dreaming of a PPP disolution as the Dems dont seem to go along with this, which would seemingly make a diso case pointless. It could if you wanted to be more cynical also pressage a deal of some kind.

By the way, its not too difficult to find lots of Thai people who think politicians are all crooks! However, it depends ion whose side which crook is as to whether it is deemed acceptable or not and of course is sometimes dependent on how bad the level of crookery is My wife's illiterate PPP voting uncle gives quite a good lecture on this from which few poltiicans come out unscathed.

Chaiwat to Decide Whether to Withdraw Petition to Nullify Advanced

The member of the Democrat Party who filed a petition demanding that the Supreme Court nullify the results of the advanced vote insists that he will attend the first hearing session on January 15th before making his decision on whether to withdraw the complaint. He also confirms that his petition is not a ploy by the People's Alliance for Democracy of which he is close to.

Chaiwat Sinsuwong, the Democrat Party's MP candidate for Buri Ram's constituency 1, insisted he is not pressured by the fact that his petition, which demands that the Supreme Court nullify the results of the advanced vote of December 15th and 16th, goes against his party's political stance.

Chaiwat says he informed the party after filing the lawsuit.

Asked to comment about the Democrat Party's request that he withdraw the lawsuit, Chaiwat said he has already notified the party that he will need time to consider the request.

The Buri Ram MP candidate added that his decision on whether to withdraw the petition will be made after he attends the first hearing of the case, on January 15th.

He also confirmed that his lawsuit is not a political ploy of the People's Alliance for Democracy and does not aim to topple the People Power Party. He added that his petition only intends to prevent bad people from gaining power.

Meanwhile, the People Power Party's party-list MP, Chaowarin Laktasaksiri, traveled to the Democrat Party's headquarters this morning to present a bouquet of flowers as moral support for Democrat Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, after he decided to request that Chaiwat withdraw his petition.

Democrat Party Deputy Leader Alongkorn Pollabutr and key member Nipon Wisityuttasart received the flowers on behalf of their leader.

Chaowarin also praised Abhisit and the Democrat Party on having a good political manners regarding the move to withdraw the lawsuit and allowing the People Power Party, as the winner of the election, to form a new government.

[seonai]

Challenge

Can I challenge all you wonderful political pros out there to explain exactly and precisely what the current situation is/might be in Thai politics in one small paragraph - no more than 9 lines. For people like me who understand a certain amount and am familliar with names but find reading through 70 pages quite hard. Pleeeeeze

[Meerkat]

Challenge

Pleeeeeze

The problem is that if you ask half a dozen of us, you'll likely get seven different opinions!

[seonai]

Well seven different opinions is better than 70 pages. I understand up to the bit where the election happened and the PPP sort of won by vote buying and they may or may not be the new government...

Full stop

[marshbags]

WE have just watched a news item on UBC channel 7 ( TNN )

I was attracted to it as a mature man was talking to the police and crying, obviously very distressed.

Wife explains that he is the village PUYAI BAN in the Chang Rai area ?????

He reported the PPP for vote buying and has now received threats that certain unknown supporters ??? have told him they are going to kill not only him but his whole family and he has gone to the police in fear of their lives.

Not ficticious but real threats via telephone, letters and contact with masked locals or others ect.

He has asked the police to protect them and wants round the clock protection.

He looked maybe fiftyish and was very respectable in appearance.

marshbags

How many i wonder are already taken care of in one way or another and are withdrawing their statements.

This man obviously thought his safest route was to go direct to the police and not give in to the threats.

I hope he gets the support he deserves and he stays safe, along with his family.

Knowing Thai culture in this area, his safety remains very questionable to say the least. very indeed

[Lilawadee]

They did not win 'by vote buying'. There's millions of voters, which makes wide-scale vote-buying not feasible. It does happen on occasion, by some individual candidates. This has always been happening, and across all parties.

Also you can do a survey in the Thai hart-land: People there genuinely want to vote for TRT, or their replacement the PPP.

As for a summary, may I just direct you to the BBC News site? They have excellent analysis articles available that I agree with in full.

If I were to do a 9 line summary I think I would use the opportunity to go a couple thousand feet higher and look at the bigger picture, not just the current mess.

It'd be something like:

----

In Thailand, various groups hold power. Elected politicians, a handful of main business families, the aristocracy, the military, and vocal citizens groups. Factions in each of those may be aligned with factions in the other, sometimes certain main families/political parties are in power to get their feed at the trough. Who holds the most power varies over time, but there's somewhat of a balance. When Thaksin Shinawatra established his TRT (Thai Rak Thai) party, he consolidated a lot of political parties under one roof, enough in fact to reach a democratic majority JUST based on the vote of poorer up-country people. Thus he broke the 'balance' and was well on the way to gain more and more power, at the expense of many of the traditional groups. Before Thaksin, few governments went full term, and NEVER EVER had a government been able to win successive landslide election victories! This worried a lot of the traditional power groups; the military, the aristocracy, those wealthy families aligned with other parties.. When the opportunity for a coup came, they took it. They destroyed the only constitution Thailand ever had that was drafted under a fully democratic system, (pre-TRT) and replaced it with something that's intended to make Thailand a 'managed democracy'. Half the senate is not elected anymore, but hand-picked by a committee! This is intended to bring back the balance. And this has been successful; political parties have been weakened, Thailand is due for many more years of weak coalition governments run by the same old self-serving politicians.

---

Some vocal posters on this forum actually like managed democracy, and don't even deny they like it. Personally I disagree. My support for democracy is total, and have the utmost respect for all Thai voters. Indeed most Thai voters support curbing many of the excesses that many retired expats appreciate in Thailand.. I think a lot of the Thaksin / TRT resentment originated there in the 'social order' campaign, but that's personal opinion.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Lilawadee

[plachon]

Challenge

Can I challenge all you wonderful political pros out there to explain exactly and precisely what the current situation is/might be in Thai politics in one small paragraph - no more than 9 lines. For people like me who understand a certain amount and am familliar with names but find reading through 70 pages quite hard. Pleeeeeze

Trouble is Seonai, one can go through 70 pages and still not understand what is really happening. I've been through near that and am still at a loss as to where things are, it is so volatile and ephemeral. I'm very much an amateur observer at this game, (and admit to being as confused as anyone about what is really happening), so would not be so forthright as to rise to your challenge. However, I would be so bold as to say, it would be a brave person to predict the outcome of all these Macchiavelian twists and turns in the plot, and am sure the situation in 3 months from now, never mind a year, is unpredictable as the outcome of the next World Cup.

Anyone up to the challenge? Younghusband? Blaze? Hammered? SRJ? Plus? Anybody?