Australian Aged Pension

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

You never had any to start with, you annoying fallopian tube.

Why are you still engaging? I put KH on ignore quite a while ago.

 

[Nemises]

Question about Centrelink scrutinising your bank statements prior to granting you the OAP please….

Is it up to you to provide the statements for the period they ask for, or do they request them directly from your bank instead?

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Nemises

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

Question about Centrelink scrutinising your bank statements prior to granting you the OAP please….

Is it up to you to provide the statements for the period they ask for, or do they request them directly from your bank instead?

 

 

I applied for the oap 2 years 4 months ago.

 

The assets and income statement is a seperate form and it asks the applicant to get statements from the bank(s).

 

K Bank provided good documents, all the right detail C'link asked for and all signed by the K Bank branch manager.

 

I went to the local C'link  office (just Nth of Sydney) to obtain a CRN Centrelink Reference Number and to lodge proof of identity.

 

I had already completed the full oap application form* and the assets and income form and took these with me to the C'link office. The C'link officer (very pleasant focused lady, good listener, polite) visually scanned it all and said "You're pretty ready to submit".  (* actually not difficult to complete the 24 page main application form. If you're single/divorced/widowed then you can skip as much as perhaps 60 to 80% of the questions. Same with the assets and income form, quite easy/straight forward to complete.)

 

I had already attached copies of a couple of docs (mainly proof of identity) to the full application form and also attached copies of the statements from K Bank to the assets and income form.

 

I asked her 'what about the originals? Her response "Very occasionally Canberra asks for the originals so make sur you keep them safe at home".

 

She then shared:

 

- You can send the 2 application docs (oap application and assets and income statement by mail, or

- You can scan it all at home and submit online, or

- We scan everything here in the C'link office into one total document and at the same time submit online direct to Canberra.

 

 

She then politely asked "What appraoch do you want to take?" I responded "Would you please scan and submit for me".

 

Her response was "sure, but I'm going to suggest that you sit at another desk and go through the hand written documents and attachments again very carefully one more time. I'll take another client and when that's finished I'll come and see you".

 

That proceeded, I was ready to submit. "She took the whole bundle to a bigger multi purpose machine and scanned the whole thing and submitted it, and the machine put a stamp on the first page showing my CRN number and the date/time.

 

The C'link lady put a big clip on the whole bundle and put it in a big envelope and handed it to me.

 

She then commented "You should hear quickly from C'link, by e.mail, to indicate your submission is complete and accepted, or perhaps they might ask (by e.mail), for more details. The next day I got confirmation that my documents were accepted.

 

In just over 2 weeks I got a call from a very focused/polite young man to tell me my oap was approved.  He asked me to find a blank paper and pen and he step by step gave me the relevant details and he kept asking "Do you have any questions?"

 

He also indicated that I would receive a letter with the same details the next day by special postal service. And he mentioned that the initial payment (the backdated amount) would be in my bank late the day after his call. That all happened.

 

I still have the original documents from K Bank with me.

Edited May 5, 2022 by scorecard

[ozfarang]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

Question about Centrelink scrutinising your bank statements prior to granting you the OAP please….

Is it up to you to provide the statements for the period they ask for, or do they request them directly from your bank instead?

 

 

@Nemises, Centrelink ask you to provide bank statements not your bank, for the OAP.

 

I downloaded from my bank and emailed to Centrelink

Edited May 5, 2022 by ozfarang

[Nemises]

Thanks ozfarang and scorecard, very helpful ???? 

 

Can I also please ask how far back they wanted statements for? 

[ozfarang]

25 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Thanks ozfarang and scorecard, very helpful ???? 

 

Can I also please ask how far back they wanted statements for? 

When I applied for the OAP thee and a half years they wanted the last 6 months

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

I applied for the oap 2 years 4 months ago.

 

The assets and income statement is a seperate form and it asks the applicant to get statements from the bank(s).

 

K Bank provided good documents, all the right detail C'link asked for and all signed by the K Bank branch manager.

 

I went to the local C'link  office (just Nth of Sydney) to obtain a CRN Centrelink Reference Number and to lodge proof of identity.

 

I had already completed the full oap application form* and the assets and income form and took these with me to the C'link office. The C'link officer (very pleasant focused lady, good listener, polite) visually scanned it all and said "You're pretty ready to submit".  (* actually not difficult to complete the 24 page main application form. If you're single/divorced/widowed then you can skip as much as perhaps 60 to 80% of the questions. Same with the assets and income form, quite easy/straight forward to complete.)

 

I had already attached copies of a couple of docs (mainly proof of identity) to the full application form and also attached copies of the statements from K Bank to the assets and income form.

 

I asked her 'what about the originals? Her response "Very occasionally Canberra asks for the originals so make sur you keep them safe at home".

 

She then shared:

 

- You can send the 2 application docs (oap application and assets and income statement by mail, or

- You can scan it all at home and submit online, or

- We scan everything here in the C'link office into one total document and at the same time submit online direct to Canberra.

 

 

She then politely asked "What appraoch do you want to take?" I responded "Would you please scan and submit for me".

 

Her response was "sure, but I'm going to suggest that you sit at another desk and go through the hand written documents and attachments again very carefully one more time. I'll take another client and when that's finished I'll come and see you".

 

That proceeded, I was ready to submit. "She took the whole bundle to a bigger multi purpose machine and scanned the whole thing and submitted it, and the machine put a stamp on the first page showing my CRN number and the date/time.

 

The C'link lady put a big clip on the whole bundle and put it in a big envelope and handed it to me.

 

She then commented "You should hear quickly from C'link, by e.mail, to indicate your submission is complete and accepted, or perhaps they might ask (by e.mail), for more details. The next day I got confirmation that my documents were accepted.

 

In just over 2 weeks I got a call from a very focused/polite young man to tell me my oap was approved.  He asked me to find a blank paper and pen and he step by step gave me the relevant details and he kept asking "Do you have any questions?"

 

He also indicated that I would receive a letter with the same details the next day by special postal service. And he mentioned that the initial payment (the backdated amount) would be in my bank late the day after his call. That all happened.

 

I still have the original documents from K Bank with me.

If you are a returning resident to Oz don't you have to demonstrate that you have permanently severed all ties with your previous country?
Wouldn't having funds in a Thai bank account on your Statement of Assets and Income counter that?

[scorecard]

56 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

If you are a returning resident to Oz don't you have to demonstrate that you have permanently severed all ties with your previous country?
Wouldn't having funds in a Thai bank account on your Statement of Assets and Income counter that?

I'm not sure what your agenda is with your words/comments.

 

My actions on this matter are the same as many others and totally within the laws and regulations.

 

I will not be making any further comments. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, ozfarang said:

When I applied for the OAP thee and a half years they wanted the last 6 months

Same.

[Old Croc]

14 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I seem to remember in the residency tests they get exempted anyway.

The public service superannuation, residency test applies if still contributing when working overseas, not pensioners.

[Old Croc]

8 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I'll be in the same boat as you in a few years. I can't quite see how you could not be taxed on your government superannuation pension as a non resident if you stay in Thailand all year but not my business. Someone had told me that the nature of getting a defined benefit pension made it easier to be a resident of Australia but I have seen nothing to back that up. 

(snip)

Six months there and six months in Australia might be necessary in my case. 

A couple of superannuants on this forum have called ATO on their status and received an Oral Ruling (Oral rulings | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)) that they can be considered resident for tax purposes.

Go for it if you're game. 

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, Old Croc said:

The public service superannuation, residency test applies if still contributing when working overseas, not pensioners.

You're right, I misremembered the detail.

[deej]

Please  Google australia portabe age pension,  for a up todate websites, requirements and information relating to our discussion, changes  to our  pension,s oversea,s are forthcoming, which i did

Edited May 6, 2022 by deej

[KhunHeineken]

49 minutes ago, deej said:

Please  Google australia portabe age pension,  for a up todate websites, requirements and information relating to our discussion, changes  to our  pension,s oversea,s are forthcoming, which i did

Here's the website I think you wanted to quote previously.

 

www.dss.gov.au

 

.gov, not .com.

 

Here's a relevant paragraph.

 

"The availability of short-term portability (excluding DSP, Widow B and Wife pensions) depends on whether the customer continues to satisfy the residence requirements. In deciding whether a person travelling overseas for a short time continues to reside in Australia, regard is given to the nature of the person's accommodation in Australia, family relationships, employment, business, financial ties, assets and the frequency of or duration of travel outside Australia. Recipients who return to Australia just to renew their portability period would not satisfy the 'residing in Australia' criterion and would not qualify for continued payment."

 

The document was last updated 6 years ago, in 2016, where they reduced Family Tax Benefit from 56 weeks to 6 weeks for non residents.

 

I won't say it, because I will be labeled a scaremonger or troll, so I will ask it.  How relevant do you think this document is to the proposed changes being discussed?  

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, Old Croc said:

A couple of superannuants on this forum have called ATO on their status and received an Oral Ruling (Oral rulings | Australian Taxation Office (ato.gov.au)) that they can be considered resident for tax purposes.

Go for it if you're game. 

Is that their current status, or their status after the new changes come in?  

[LosLobo]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

I'm not sure what your agenda is with your words/comments.

 

My actions on this matter are the same as many others and totally within the laws and regulations.

 

I will not be making any further comments. 

I have no agenda. You seemingly posted misinformation for which I asked for further explanation.

 

If you cannot accept responsibility and accountability for your comments I suggest you stop posting here.

[Old Croc]

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Is that their current status, or their status after the new changes come in?  

Read the link and try to understand it.

[KhunHeineken]

9 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Read the link and try to understand it.

I read the link.

 

Question still stands.

[Old Croc]

18 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I read the link.

 

Question still stands.

not interested

[deej]

37 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Here's the website I think you wanted to quote previously.

 

www.dss.gov.au

 

.gov, not .com.

 

Here's a relevant 

I won't say it, because I will be labeled a scaremonger or troll, so I will ask it.  How relevant do you think this document is to the proposed changes being discussed?  

For me petsonally, absoulately  ZERO

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, deej said:

For me petsonally, absoulately  ZERO

 

 

For everyone, zero, if / when the new changes come in.

[deej]

22 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

For everyone, zero, if / when the new changes come in.

That is their personal business, not mine????

As for your proposed changes coming in, absoulately no mention  anywhere, apart from your posts

( IMO) bordering on Trolling or Scare mongering????

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by deej

[scorecard]

47 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

I have no agenda. You seemingly posted misinformation for which I asked for further explanation.

 

If you cannot accept responsibility and accountability for your comments I suggest you stop posting here.

What misinformation did I post?

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

What misinformation did I post?

Your post, without further clarification, suggested that it was acceptable to Centrelink to have funds in a Thai bank even though this would suggest that you have not severed ties with your previous country of residence.

This severance of ties is a condition that a returning resident must meet to receive the aged pension and portability.
 

I suggest that for Centrelink to accept this situation at face value without there being exceptional circumstances would not be the case.

Therefore, without further explanation on your part, this would be seem to be misinformation, especially for others who may want to go down this same path.

7.1.4 Requirements for former residents of Australia receiving a portable pension | Social Security Guide (dss.gov.au)
 

Edited May 6, 2022 by LosLobo

[scorecard]

51 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Your post, without further clarification, suggested that it was acceptable to Centrelink to have funds in a Thai bank even though this would suggest that you have not severed ties with your previous country of residence.

This severance of ties is a condition that a returning resident must meet to receive the aged pension and portability.
 

I suggest that for Centrelink to accept this situation at face value without there being exceptional circumstances would be not be the case.

Therefore, without further explanation on your part, this would be seem to be misinformation, especially for others who may want to go down this same path.

7.1.4 Requirements for former residents of Australia receiving a portable pension | Social Security Guide (dss.gov.au)
 

Again you make all sorts of assumptions.

 

I didn't ask for or receive any special consideration in this matter. Not on my mind at all. And from what I've read re C'link laws and regulations cannot be changed / flexed on any points in the oap application/submission process. 

 

If there was a C'link law or regualtions stating a non-acceptance of balances in bank accounts abroad then do you really think they would give me or anybody some special acceptance of bank balaces abroad. Of course not, cannot be true.  

 

To be sure to complete the form correctly I asked Centrelink if I should include details of balances in Thai banks in my Income and Assets statement. C'link responded 'Yes, all balances in banks where you have an account, anywhere in the world'.

 

So that's what I did. This was actually accepted by C'link 2 times:

 

- The officer at the local big C'link office who visually scanned all of my documents (main oap application form and my assets and income statement) and she did it thoroughly. She did not query or challenge any details I had included on either form.

 

I was sitting alongside the officer as she went through the application forms item by item. She put her finger on each item as she checked it, then moved to the next item.

 

When she came to the assets and income statement attachments I said 'Some detail is in Thai language from my bank in Thailand, is that OK?' She responded 'Yes it's fine because there's also plenty of English language regarding the information C'link wants.

 

- The same officer scanned both documents into the office multi-purpose facility and they were accepted without question by the ultimate checking/processing in Canberra.

 

- The same officer (at the local C'link office) mentioned that some of the details inserted by applicants is nowadays analysed automatically by heir computers but ultimately it's re-checked by Canberra officers tasked to ensure there are no misunderatndings and no detils which are outside of the oap laws and regulations.  

 

So how can you claim I wrote misinformation?

 

Since my oap has been approved, I have called the C'link international line in Hobart a couple of times. This includes not too long after approval and payments had started, and quite some time after approval.

 

During these conversations the C'link officers have made no comment or suggestion that there were any issues/errors/illegal points/mistakes in C'link processing/unacceptable details in what has been accepted by C'link.

 

On my personal details screens inside MyGov - Centrelink I can look at all the details I submitted and which were accepted by C'link. And in the assets and income details it mentions K Bank, Thailand.  

 

So how can you state that I gave misinformation? Please state specifically what words/phrases/senteced I wrote which could cause problems for folks who might want to apply for the oap in the future. you can state 

 

Further, If you are authorised to construct and publish the philosophical concepts under which C'link / oap matters which underlie the laws and regulations under which C'link operates and if you are authorised to construct and publish the actual laws and regulations then please say so.

 

If you don't have any remit to do the above then you have no right to query anything that I write.

 

You gave a link, seems to me you're trying to twist. But the reality is that you aren't trained or authorised to make comments/judgments on anything related to C'link matters.

 

Bottom line - I am fully entitled to my oap. And I can state that I didn't give misinformation in my earlier post.

 

Please don't try to play god. Find something else to mess with and stop upsetting people.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by scorecard

[KhunHeineken]

31 minutes ago, scorecard said:

So how can you state that I gave misinformation? Please state specifically what words/phrases/senteced I wrote which could cause problems for folks who might want to apply for the oap in the future. you can state 

By mentioning "severance of ties" I think the member may be referring to the below clause:

 

"The availability of short-term portability (excluding DSP, Widow B and Wife pensions) depends on whether the customer continues to satisfy the residence requirements. In deciding whether a person travelling overseas for a short time continues to reside in Australia, regard is given to the nature of the person's accommodation in Australia, family relationships, employment, business, financial ties, assets and the frequency of or duration of travel outside Australia. Recipients who return to Australia just to renew their portability period would not satisfy the 'residing in Australia' criterion and would not qualify for continued payment."

 

Notice it says "continue toto satisfy the residence requirements" and "recipients who return to Australia just to renew their portability period would not satisfy the 'residing in Australia' criterion."

 

What actually happens may be a different thing.

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, deej said:

That is their personal business, not mine????

As for your proposed changes coming in, absoulately no mention  anywhere, apart from your posts

( IMO) bordering on Trolling or Scare mongering????

 

Once again, the last update to that document was 6 years ago. 

 

Will you be relying on that document after the new changes come in?  ???? 

 

 

[deej]

18 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Once again, the last update to that document was 6 years ago. 

 

Will you be relying on that document after the new changes come in?  ???? 

 

 

Yes,  and other reliable source,s????in Oz.

Certainly not you ,as  your contribition so far  on this topic, ( IMO) is  Cod,s Wallopp

and that putting it, very politely to you????

[scorecard]

35 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

By mentioning "severance of ties" I think the member may be referring to the below clause:

 

"The availability of short-term portability (excluding DSP, Widow B and Wife pensions) depends on whether the customer continues to satisfy the residence requirements. In deciding whether a person travelling overseas for a short time continues to reside in Australia, regard is given to the nature of the person's accommodation in Australia, family relationships, employment, business, financial ties, assets and the frequency of or duration of travel outside Australia. Recipients who return to Australia just to renew their portability period would not satisfy the 'residing in Australia' criterion and would not qualify for continued payment."

 

Notice it says "continue toto satisfy the residence requirements" and "recipients who return to Australia just to renew their portability period would not satisfy the 'residing in Australia' criterion."

 

What actually happens may be a different thing.

 

 

I responded to a post asking for some info. about the personal bank details I submitted in my oap application.

 

I shared what I knew/what I submitted, plus a little bit further detail hoping that it might be useful.

 

I didn't set out to write a Ph.D. on every aspect/detail etc., of the C'link oap laws and regulations.

 

Yes there are clauses about residency. I had in the run up to lodging my application done a lot of surfing to ensure I fully understood this matter.

 

In my surfing I found numerous documents/comments from a variety of sources; some just personal throw away comments on community web boards, a couple from aligned community member based institutions and a couple written by law firms in OZ, obviously looking to gain business - customers wanting a law firm (or similar) to guide them (for a fee). That's capitalism at work.

 

Some of the online documents/reports (e,g, law firms) gave explanations of the various official documents in regard to oap and continued by sharing a number of Questions they had received and their answers.

 

I'm recalling the following:

 

• - A question; about re-establishing residency in Australia for citizens who had been outside OZ for an extended period. More speciifically whether the applicant needed to purchase a house.
• - Answer; No, a person returning can well satisfy this item by renting a house, apartment etc., but the person would need to have a written/signed lease or rental agreement.

In fact I rented an apartment, with a rental agreement documented on a proper rental agreement format. This was accepted without question by C'link.

 

• - Question: In these circumstances, after the pplicant has returned to OZ, personallay submitted their oap application and been approved for the oap, is that person required to stay in Australia permenantly.

- In fact In my surfing I found several answers to this question, some seemed to clash, as follows:

 

• - The applicant/receiver of the oap in these circumstances can leave Australia for short period of time, max 3 weeks and 3 times per year (I repeat here this is from a commercial firm who had written their own materials on the oap).
• -  another answer:  the applicant can go in and out of Australia as often as they like bit would be advisable to not be out of Australia more than 112 minths in one block period of time.

Another such commercial document someone had asked:

• Do I need to give C'link a written/signed  guarantee that I will never leave Australia again. and If I do leave is it true that my oap payments will be cancelled forever?
• Answer: You need to say that you are currrently intending to re-establish an abode in Australia, but you don't have any longer-term plans re your country of abode. 

YOU CAN REHASH ALL OF THIS AND CREATE YOUR PERSONAL INTERPRETATION AS OFTEN AS YOU LIKE, I RESEARCHED IT AS BEST I COULD AND PROCEEDED TO APPLY

 

More recent, after receiving payments I spoke to the C'link international officers a few times and the following phrases/comments came into the conversation:

• - ' You have portability after being back in Australia for 2 years or more, do you understand how that works.?
• - and 'After you have achieved portability you can leave australia and not return ever and your full oap entitlement continues and C'link will send your payments to a bank in any country that you choose every 4 weeks.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can try to interpret this in whatever twist you want. I did my research, got advise, proceeded and I am very confident that I have not done anything wrong in any way.

 

I apologize for the many spelling etc., mistakes. I’m coming up to 78 years old and I’m working from a wheel chair, and this is causing recurrence of my PTSD issues (panic, anxiety, depression, shaking) from my war service in Vietnam. (My Vietnam service is why I spend most of my time in a wheelchair). 

 

Please desist, good bye...

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

https://banksgroup.com.au/changes-to-individual-tax-residency-rules-earmarked/

 

Quote:

 

"For long term residents of Australia, the individual will cease to be treated as a resident of Australia if they have been physically present in Australia for less than 45 days in each of the current financial year and the last 2 financial years.  For long term residents of Australia, the objective factor tests are not separately considered to determine residency.  If a long-term resident individual is treated as a non-resident of Australia for the year, they will be treated as a non-resident of Australia for the full financial year."