Australian Aged Pension

[giddyup]

6 minutes ago, scorecard said:

When in Sydney many many years ago I called the older Oz line and said I wanted some advice about portability. The stubborn female office responded quickly 'there's no such thing, do you really expect Australia to pay you in another currency?' and she hng up. 

 

I politely hung up and called again, different pleasant office, I shared what had happened 2 minutes earlier. She responded 'please give me 2 minutes and I can identify who you spoke to, please don't hang up. About 5 minutes later a more senior officer came on the line and strongly apologized. Then she gave me me a lot of information and advice re portability.

 

She shared that the errant officer had a track record of rudeness and wrong answer.  About 3 days later the errant officer called me and apologised and shared that she would finish work that day, she had been sacked. Snr officer called very late same day to check that the errant officer had called me and apologized. 

 

That was justice. The officer who gave me bad information I kind of paid out a bit, told her to check before giving people bad info. Surprise, surprise my pension was stopped the first week I moved here. Maybe a coincidence, maybe payback. I had to ring the international off and get reinstated.

[4MyEgo]

On 10/21/2024 at 6:24 AM, KhunHeineken said:

2)  The pension is taxable.

 

Google is your friend.

 

You don't need to lodge a tax return if:Centrelink is not withholding tax from your pension payment and you have no other income. If your aged pension payment is your only source of income, then you do not need to lodge a tax return.

 

https://www.kpgtaxation.com.au/blog/how-much-can-an-australian-pensioner-earn-before-paying-tax/#:~:text=Typically%2C you need to be,%2428%2C974 per person for couples.

 

 

[rhodie]

41 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Google is your friend.

 

You don't need to lodge a tax return if:Centrelink is not withholding tax from your pension payment and you have no other income. If your aged pension payment is your only source of income, then you do not need to lodge a tax return.

 

https://www.kpgtaxation.com.au/blog/how-much-can-an-australian-pensioner-earn-before-paying-tax/#:~:text=Typically%2C you need to be,%2428%2C974 per person for couples.

 

 

 

 

Mate, stop feeding him. He thrives in feedback. We'll get 15 posts to back his scaremongering.

We all know it is BS.

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

13 hours ago, rhodie said:

Mate, stop feeding him. He thrives in feedback. We'll get 15 posts to back his scaremongering.

We all know it is BS.

 

My bad, your 100% correct, I'll go back to blocking him 🤐

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Google is your friend.

 

You don't need to lodge a tax return if:Centrelink is not withholding tax from your pension payment and you have no other income. If your aged pension payment is your only source of income, then you do not need to lodge a tax return.

 

https://www.kpgtaxation.com.au/blog/how-much-can-an-australian-pensioner-earn-before-paying-tax/#:~:text=Typically%2C you need to be,%2428%2C974 per person for couples.

 

 

I read your link. 

 

Once again, it's focused on Australian residents for tax purposes, who have the benefit of the tax free threshold. 

 

The whole games changes as a non resident of Australia for tax purposes.  The first tax bracket of non resident tax is $0 to $135,000 at 30%.

 

I found the below links in 10 seconds on the first page of a Google search.  Remember, the pension is deemed an "income" at law.  This has already been established on this thread.   If you disagree with this, post a link showing so. 

 

From the ATO.  Note it includes "pensions." 

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-australia-or-going-overseas/your-tax-residency/foreign-and-temporary-residents

 

"If you're a foreign resident for tax purposes you must declare on your tax return any income earned in Australia, including:

 

employment income

 

rental income

 

Australian pensions and annuities

 

capital gains on Australian assets.

 

As a foreign resident:

 

you have no tax-free threshold"

 

 

On the same first page of a Google search are the below that supports the above.

 

https://reesgroup.com.au/australian-tax-returns-for-non-residents/

 

"Non-Residents must also lodge a tax return if they earn income while in Australia. However, non-residents only have to include income earned in Australia and do not have to declare foreign income, including income from employment in other countries.

Australian non-residents are not entitled to the tax-free threshold and as a result pay higher tax rates than residents. This means that Tax in Australia for non-residents is charged from the first dollar of income they earn."

 

And this one.

 

https://www.taxback.com/blog/file-australian-tax-return/#:~:text=So%2C it's important to stay,on Australian buildings and land.

 

"If you have any income derived from Australian sources, even as a foreign resident, you will have to file a tax return."

 

Also this from the ATO about bank interest.

 

https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0JRF0000004AX3/p00253264

 

"Non-tax residents of Australia are taxed only on income earned in Australia.

 

As such, the $35 bank interest may be taxable in Australia as it appears your bank is not aware you are a non-resident and has not withheld tax. (Dependant on the terms of any applicable double taxation treaty)

 

As a non-tax resident, you do not have access to the tax-free threshold and will be taxed at 32.5% on the $35 (so $11.38 tax to pay)"

 

Note the non resident tax in the first bracket has changed to 30%, down from 32.5%.

 

Plenty of other links stating the same. 

 

If you can post a link that shows pensions are exempt from non resident tax, or expat pensioners still have the benefit of the tax free threshold, I would like to read it.

 

The Australia / Thailand DTA covers government service pensions, not aged pensions from Centerlink. 

Edited October 23 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

16 hours ago, rhodie said:

 

 

Mate, stop feeding him. He thrives in feedback. We'll get 15 posts to back his scaremongering.

We all know it is BS.

 

 

 

Perhaps you would care to comment on the links I have provided.

 

if you think the links I have posted are "BS" can you post some links that counter the information? 

[Pattaya57]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

My bad, your 100% correct, I'll go back to blocking him 🤐

 

Yep, if everyone blocks him and never replies to him then this decades old thread may actually be useful again to newbies to the OAP and old timers as well. Just remember he posted this:

 

"I'm not on a pension, I'll never be on a pension and I think all pensioners are freeloaders living off my taxes"

 

Why would anyone engage with someone in the pensioner thread who obviously has an agenda of hating pensioners? Meanwhile he's made nearly 1000 posts in this thread 

 

Edited October 23 by Pattaya57

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Yep, if everyone blocks him and never replies to him then thread may actually be useful again to newbies to the OAP

I blocked him a couple of years ago, still blocked. 

[Pattaya57]

The way I read the rules for OAP, once you're on the pension you can elect to do a final tax submission and never have to file a tax return again (as pension + rebates is < threshold). 

 

I'd then assume tax residence is irrelevant as you never have to file a tax return again and therefore never have to declare residency status (Resident or non-resident tax status is only determined during a tax return, never any other time)

 

Have I missed something?

 

Edited October 23 by Pattaya57

[Fat is a type of crazy]

2 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

The way I read the rules for OAP, once you're on the pension you can elect to do a final tax submission and never have to file a tax return again (as pension + rebates is < threshold). 

 

I'd then assume tax residence is irrelevant as you never have to file a tax return again and therefore never have to declare residency status (Resident or non-resident tax status is only determined during a tax return, never any other time)

 

Have I missed something?

 

This may be obvious but if you lodge a final tax return and circumstances change you would need to start lodging. A change in residency could be such a situation. 

[KhunHeineken]

10 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

 

Yep, if everyone blocks him and never replies to him then this decades old thread may actually be useful again to newbies to the OAP and old timers as well. Just remember he posted this:

 

"I'm not on a pension, I'll never be on a pension and I think all pensioners are freeloaders living off my taxes"

 

Why would anyone engage with someone in the pensioner thread who obviously has an agenda of hating pensioners? Meanwhile he's made nearly 1000 posts in this thread 

 

I have answered this before. 

 

After working hard and paying a lotttttttttt of tax, I admit, I do feel somewhat entitled, thus, I very well may restructure my income, and assets, and my finances in general, to receive a part pension.  I have already discussed this with my accountant. 

 

Why would I "hate pensioners" when I am considering arranging my financial position so I could possibly receive a part pension????

Edited October 23 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

8 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

The way I read the rules for OAP,

The way you read the rules isn't worth much though, is it? 

 

It's the law, and the laws are changing, and moving more towards making it easier for the government to enforce the law. 

 

8 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

once you're on the pension you can elect to do a final tax submission and never have to file a tax return again (as pension + rebates is < threshold). 

That's not what the several links I have posted just a few posts ago say, is it????

 

One link is from the ATO website.  Did you read it?  I quoted the relevant part.  Is it incorrect?  Can you post a link showing otherwise, and supporting your "read" of the "rules?" 

 

Another link is from an ATO staff member. 

 

What about posting about how "the ATO read the rules for OAP?" 

 

8 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

I'd then assume tax residence is irrelevant as you never have to file a tax return again and therefore never have to declare residency status (Resident or non-resident tax status is only determined during a tax return, never any other time)

Quite an assumption. 

 

Do you have any links to back up your assumption? 

 

8 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Have I missed something?

Yeah, lots. 

Edited October 23 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

This may be obvious but if you lodge a final tax return and circumstances change you would need to start lodging. A change in residency could be such a situation. 

Clearly, circumstances are changing, and not just for guys like Paul Hogan. 

 

Funny how most members on this thread accept Thailand's inside Thailand for 180 days you WILL BE a tax resident of Thailand for tax purposes, as discussed in another forum, but NO WAY can they accept Australia moving to a similar system of outside of Australia for 183 days, you WILL BE a non resident of  Australia for tax purposes. 

 

Go figure. 

Edited October 23 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

As of yesterday, he's still adding more, but I'm not reading them, but I can see he's at it again.....LOL.

 

You've chosen to ignore content by KhunHeineken. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by KhunHeineken. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by KhunHeineken. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by KhunHeineken. Options 

You've chosen to ignore content by KhunHeineken. Options 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-australia-or-going-overseas/your-tax-residency/foreign-and-temporary-residents

 

If you're a foreign resident for tax purposes you must declare on your tax return any income earned in Australia, including:

 

employment income

 

rental income

 

Australian pensions and annuities

 

capital gains on Australian assets.

 

As a foreign resident:

 

you have no tax-free threshold"

 

 

Any comment????

[KhunHeineken]

11 hours ago, LosLobo said:

I posted this over two years ago, and it has taken 'til now for many to wake up.

I posted this over 2 years ago and members still think it's fantasy, despite Thailand moving to enforce the same in 2025.  It's laughable.  

 

https://hlb.com.au/tax-residency-changes-for-individuals/

[cdnvic]

Removed off topic discussions regarding moderation. Taking no further action this time. If you have questions, contact Support. Otherwise, stay on topic please. 

[scorecard]

On 10/23/2024 at 11:51 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

My bad, your 100% correct, I'll go back to blocking him 🤐

 

Agree Ignore / blocking is a good move.

 

But keep in mind that whatever you post he will read and reuse it, possibly with an incorrect twist and you don't know he's posted this because you put him on ignore.

 

Some weeks ago I contributed a message with an accurate comment about the policies of the Oz DVA (Dept.of Veterans Affairs). (I know it's accurate because it applies to my personal situation.)

 

He picked this up and reposted it but with a statement which is the opposite of the DVA policy on this subject.

 

The wrong 'information' he posted could well cause a serious problem, even convince a war veteran to not apply for a war service permanent disability compensation payment which that veterans is entitled to.

 

He's a nasty nuisance.

Edited October 28 by scorecard

[Nemises]

 

How one tweak can give us an increased pension!

 

 

The Age Pension is meant to be a financial backup and the superannuation system was designed to support us in a comfortable retirement. Still, increasingly older Australians are falling into poverty, so what’s going wrong?

 

It’s estimated one in five older Australians live in poverty. At the September 2024 indexation, the Age Pension single payments rose by $28.10 per fortnight, while combined payments for couples increased by $21.20 per person. That’s an increase of less than 3 per cent, which in no way covers the rising costs of basics such as energy, food and insurance, some of which have increased by double digits.

 

World Bank data has revealed that Australians pay up to 41 per cent more for meat, up to 45 per cent more for dairy and as much as 46 per cent more for fruit than other countries.

 

Add to that the increasing number of Australians heading into retirement with a mortgage or renting in unstable private markets with ever-increasing rents. Far from a comfortable retirement, many older Australians are facing a grim future.

 

So what’s the answer?

 

A recent report by The Australia Institute claims there is one simple tweak that could easily alleviate the problem.

 

The institute wants to remove the massive concessions to those retiring with millions of dollars and use that money to increase the Age Pension.

 

New research by The Australia Institute has found that Australia spends almost as much giving tax breaks to wealthy retirees as it does providing a safety net, the Age Pension, to those with little or no retirement savings.

 

 

Click here for source

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4 by Nemises

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Nemises said:

 

How one tweak can give us an increased pension!

 

 

The Age Pension is meant to be a financial backup and the superannuation system was designed to support us in a comfortable retirement. Still, increasingly older Australians are falling into poverty, so what’s going wrong?

 

It’s estimated one in five older Australians live in poverty. At the September 2024 indexation, the Age Pension single payments rose by $28.10 per fortnight, while combined payments for couples increased by $21.20 per person. That’s an increase of less than 3 per cent, which in no way covers the rising costs of basics such as energy, food and insurance, some of which have increased by double digits.

 

World Bank data has revealed that Australians pay up to 41 per cent more for meat, up to 45 per cent more for dairy and as much as 46 per cent more for fruit than other countries.

 

Add to that the increasing number of Australians heading into retirement with a mortgage or renting in unstable private markets with ever-increasing rents. Far from a comfortable retirement, many older Australians are facing a grim future.

 

So what’s the answer?

 

A recent report by The Australia Institute claims there is one simple tweak that could easily alleviate the problem.

 

The institute wants to remove the massive concessions to those retiring with millions of dollars and use that money to increase the Age Pension.

 

New research by The Australia Institute has found that Australia spends almost as much giving tax breaks to wealthy retirees as it does providing a safety net, the Age Pension, to those with little or no retirement savings.

 

 

Click here for source

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh dear, I can think of someone on this thread who won't like that at all.

[KhunHeineken]

On 10/28/2024 at 6:09 AM, scorecard said:

 

Agree Ignore / blocking is a good move.

 

But keep in mind that whatever you post he will read and reuse it, possibly with an incorrect twist and you don't know he's posted this because you put him on ignore.

 

Some weeks ago I contributed a message with an accurate comment about the policies of the Oz DVA (Dept.of Veterans Affairs). (I know it's accurate because it applies to my personal situation.)

 

He picked this up and reposted it but with a statement which is the opposite of the DVA policy on this subject.

 

The wrong 'information' he posted could well cause a serious problem, even convince a war veteran to not apply for a war service permanent disability compensation payment which that veterans is entitled to.

 

He's a nasty nuisance.

You posted you had an Australia JP witness your signature on a document. 

 

I quoted the JP Handbook, and posted the link that JP's can not perform their duty outside their State of Australia jurisdiction. 

 

Either the JP told you this, and you posted a lie on this forum, or the JP did witness the signature, thus you submitted an invalid document, and the JP risked losing their accreditation. 

 

It's one or other, and a good reason for other members to take everything you post on here with a grain of salt. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/4/2024 at 10:32 PM, Nemises said:

 

How one tweak can give us an increased pension!

 

 

The Age Pension is meant to be a financial backup and the superannuation system was designed to support us in a comfortable retirement. Still, increasingly older Australians are falling into poverty, so what’s going wrong?

 

It’s estimated one in five older Australians live in poverty. At the September 2024 indexation, the Age Pension single payments rose by $28.10 per fortnight, while combined payments for couples increased by $21.20 per person. That’s an increase of less than 3 per cent, which in no way covers the rising costs of basics such as energy, food and insurance, some of which have increased by double digits.

 

World Bank data has revealed that Australians pay up to 41 per cent more for meat, up to 45 per cent more for dairy and as much as 46 per cent more for fruit than other countries.

 

Add to that the increasing number of Australians heading into retirement with a mortgage or renting in unstable private markets with ever-increasing rents. Far from a comfortable retirement, many older Australians are facing a grim future.

 

So what’s the answer?

 

A recent report by The Australia Institute claims there is one simple tweak that could easily alleviate the problem.

 

The institute wants to remove the massive concessions to those retiring with millions of dollars and use that money to increase the Age Pension.

 

New research by The Australia Institute has found that Australia spends almost as much giving tax breaks to wealthy retirees as it does providing a safety net, the Age Pension, to those with little or no retirement savings.

 

 

Click here for source

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did mention the latest pension increase was below the inflation rate, thus, pensions, and pensioners, were falling behind. 

 

A couple of things in the article stood out for me. 

 

"The Australian government forgoes nearly $38 billion a year in superannuation tax concessions."

 

Should it become an election issue, wouldn't this see the number of workers going up against the number of pensioners at election time?  It's pitting workers against pensioners. 

 

Why would a worker vote for losing tax concessions, which is basically more tax on their superannuation?  On that basis, what political party would be brave enough to put this policy to the Australia people?

 

We saw what happened to Bill Shorten when he went to an election looking for a mandate to wind back negative gearing.

 

"10 per cent of Australians reach the age of 65 with a super balance of $1 million. These people hold 51 per cent of the nation’s overall super."

 

If the policy was passed, only 10% of people paying into superannuation would lose the tax concessions, but before you say I have contradicted myself, how would you sell such a policy to the younger worker, who will most likely have over $1 million dollars in superannuation by their retirement age? 

 

https://www.fool.com.au/2024/10/19/heres-the-average-superannuation-balance-at-age-69-in-australia/

 

"For Australian's aged 65 to 74 years, men have an average super balance of $435,900 and women have an average of $381,700."

 

The people in this demographic were working for around 20 years before super was even introduced.  Now, super is paid from the first day a kid starts working at McDonald's, right through until the end of their career at retirement age.

 

So, that's $435,900 for people who did not contribute into their super fund for 20 years, because it never existed. 

 

Given you must pay super from your first day at work, and wage growth since 1992 when super was introduced, and the retirement age is now 69, up from 67 and may go higher, and super has gone from 6% to 11.5% and will go to 12% next year, I think it fair to say younger Australian workers will have an average of $1 million in super at retirement age, so how would a political party "sell" the policy to them?  

 

It looks like a Robin Hood type policy, taking from the rich to give to the poor, but it's actually taking from ALL working people, but mostly younger working people, to give to pensioners, some of whom have never worked a day in their life. 

 

If a party goes to an election with this policy, I think it would be political suicide, like Bill Shorten experienced. 

Edited November 7 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/5/2024 at 12:59 AM, Lacessit said:

Oh dear, I can think of someone on this thread who won't like that at all.

As explained in the above post, I can think of many Australians who won't like it at all, and would never vote for it.   

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

As explained in the above post, I can think of many Australians who won't like it at all, and would never vote for it.   

Exactly why it.wont happen! Besides who let the dog off, you need a firmer fastener! 

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/7/2024 at 8:10 AM, Olmate said:

Exactly why it.wont happen!

Never say never. 

 

The country's broke.  All bets are off, and everything is on the table. 

 

They need to chase every dollar from everywhere and everyone, and yes, that includes pensioners. 

 

$3.9 Trillion AUD in the Super pot.  Too tempting for them not to have a go at it. 

 

The money has to come from somewhere, or the lights go out. 

Edited November 19 by KhunHeineken

[Pattaya57]

Giving troll oxygen post deleted. Sorry.

Edited November 19 by Pattaya57

[KhunHeineken]

Just now, Pattaya57 said:

Damn, I thought he might have got the many hints and stopped posting for good, but here he is again with his only agenda of fear mongering to old age pensioners....

No one has posted on this thread since 7/11.  I make one post and you reply immediately.  Thank you for following me. 

 

No fear mongering here. 

 

Australia is nearing $1 Trillion in debt, for a country with the population of only about 28 million people. 

 

There's $3.9 Trillion AUD in the Super pot. Tempting, right? 

 

How about you play the post, not the poster. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Pattaya57 said:

Giving troll oxygen post deleted. Sorry.

No oxygen needed. 

 

The stats speak for themself. 

[ChaiyaTH]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

No one has posted on this thread since 7/11.  I make one post and you reply immediately.  Thank you for following me. 

 

No fear mongering here. 

 

Australia is nearing $1 Trillion in debt, for a country with the population of only about 28 million people. 

 

There's $3.9 Trillion AUD in the Super pot. Tempting, right? 

 

How about you play the post, not the poster. 

Seems you are bored and post half baked replies everywhere tonight. I don't really recall a 7/11 too except when I got ice cream.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Seems you are bored and post half baked replies everywhere tonight. I don't really recall a 7/11 too except when I got ice cream.

Do you have any content that is on topic to post? 

[scottiejohn]

8 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Do you have any content that is on topic to post? 

Do you have any relevant/accurate content that is on topic to post?

Edited November 20 by scottiejohn