Australian Aged Pension

[giddyup]

17 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Thanks to all for all the valuable information. A couple more questions please:

 

1. When portability is achieved (after the 2 year re-establish residency item), does the pensioner receive only the 'common rate' or is 'Pension supplement' also received?

 

2. The application form - assets and income test -  for cash in banks what proof is needed? on this point is there any different requirement in regard to cash in bank in Thailand or in Australia?

 

And what about when the cash in the bank (in Thailand) is in a joint name (example myself and my adult Thai son)? 

 

3.  Proof of identity - Is a copy of my current Australian passport sufficient.  And I also a recent endorsement on a copy of my passport, endorsed by an Australian guy living in Thailand  plus a copy of his passport, would this help? The Australian guy is older but still works (with a Thai Work Permit and his occupation in included in the professions that can make such endorsements.

 

I do have a copy of my certificate of birth (74 years ago, yes they did record births back in ancient history), but the birth certificate is not signed by an issuing authority or similar.

 

4. Proof of the date that I moved to Thailand. Can this be an approximate date or do I need to find old passports to show a departure (from Australia) stamp? 

 

Thanks.

Once leaving Australia the supplement is no longer paid. Assets, ie money in the bank is what you tell Centrelink it is, they don't ask to see proof. Same with any accounts outside Australia. A passport would be sufficient ID, not sure what you mean by endorsements. A copy of your birth certificate is easily available in Oz. I doubt you'll need to prove what date you left Australia.

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Once leaving Australia the supplement is no longer paid. Assets, ie money in the bank is what you tell Centrelink it is, they don't ask to see proof. Same with any accounts outside Australia. A passport would be sufficient ID, not sure what you mean by endorsements. A copy of your birth certificate is easily available in Oz. I doubt you'll need to prove what date you left Australia.

Thanks nice information.

 

by Endorsements I mean that someone has written on the document: 

'I certify that this is a true and correct copy of the original document'

 

Signature and date

Full name in block letters / in typing and (where appropriate) an ID number, e.g. passport number.

 

 

[giddyup]

42 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Thanks nice information.

 

by Endorsements I mean that someone has written on the document: 

'I certify that this is a true and correct copy of the original document'

 

Signature and date

Full name in block letters / in typing and (where appropriate) an ID number, e.g. passport number.

 

 

Just show the original passport.

[opalred]

as i have been not a resident/and get oz pension for past 10yrs now 

i returned once/ and couldn't get medicare or concessional   card for transport

born and worked all life oz

can i get senior card  and what is wait if i want medicare or treatment/cheers 

[RJRS1301]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Thanks to all for all the valuable information. A couple more questions please:

 

1. When portability is achieved (after the 2 year re-establish residency item), does the pensioner receive only the 'common rate' or is 'Pension supplement' also received?

 

2. The application form - assets and income test -  for cash in banks what proof is needed? on this point is there any different requirement in regard to cash in bank in Thailand or in Australia?

 

And what about when the cash in the bank (in Thailand) is in a joint name (example myself and my adult Thai son)? 

 

3.  Proof of identity - Is a copy of my current Australian passport sufficient.  And I also a recent endorsement on a copy of my passport, endorsed by an Australian guy living in Thailand  plus a copy of his passport, would this help? The Australian guy is older but still works (with a Thai Work Permit and his occupation in included in the professions that can make such endorsements.

 

I do have a copy of my certificate of birth (74 years ago, yes they did record births back in ancient history), but the birth certificate is not signed by an issuing authority or similar.

 

4. Proof of the date that I moved to Thailand. Can this be an approximate date or do I need to find old passports to show a departure (from Australia) stamp? 

 

Thanks.

All banking accounts will become part of assets, irrespective of where they are held if you declare them

Bank statements going back 3/12 generally

Need to establish 100 points of ID, driver licence, birth certificate, medicare card, passport, atm cards.

The application form online tells you the requirements for ID

Pension supplements are not paid outside of Australia after 6/52 

 

[Nemises]

Once leaving Australia the supplement is no longer paid. Assets, ie money in the bank is what you tell Centrelink it is, they don't ask to see proof.

giddyup, Q please....what about when you ORIGINALLY apply for the pension.... does Centrelink ask to see proof of how much money is in your bank?

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, Nemises said:

 

giddyup, Q please....what about when you ORIGINALLY apply for the pension.... does Centrelink ask to see proof of how much money is in your bank?

It's over 10 years ago, I really can't remember, but I at least must have been honest about how much I had because I lose pension because of bank interest on savings, as well as from a super pension. Centrelink pretty much takes you at your word as far as bank savings, but they do know exactly how much I get from super and an allocated pension.

[RJRS1301]

6 minutes ago, Nemises said:

 

giddyup, Q please....what about when you ORIGINALLY apply for the pension.... does Centrelink ask to see proof of how much money is in your bank?

 

Yes, bank statements going back at least 3 months generally. Remembering that all banks, ATO and Centrelink  share information . They also require updates of income and assets.

 

[giddyup]

26 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Yes, bank statements going back at least 3 months generally. Remembering that all banks, ATO and Centrelink  share information . They also require updates of income and assets.

 

I don't believe Centrelink has access to your bank information, and I've never been asked for an update since granted the aged pension 12 years ago. Just checked, C'link can't spot check bank accounts but it can cross reference with the ATO and then ask for more info if things don't match.

Edited September 15, 2019 by giddyup

[RJRS1301]

33 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I don't believe Centrelink has access to your bank information, and I've never been asked for an update since granted the aged pension 12 years ago. Just checked, C'link can't spot check bank accounts but it can cross reference with the ATO and then ask for more info if things don't match.

ATO and Centrelink computers share information , banks share information to ATO on bank interest paid, Centrelink cross match interest information from ATO with records of recipients of benefits.

Do not be surprised if they request an updated income and asset form at some time.

 

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

ATO and Centrelink computers share information , banks share information to ATO on bank interest paid, Centrelink cross match interest information from ATO with records of recipients of benefits.

Do not be surprised if they request an updated income and asset form at some time.

 

Been waiting 12 years to be asked for an update, haven't completed a tax return in that time either. Maybe they think I'm too old to bother with?

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Been waiting 12 years to be asked for an update, haven't completed a tax return in that time either. Maybe they think I'm too old to bother with?

are you considered an overseas resident for tax purposes?? 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

are you considered an overseas resident for tax purposes?? 

No idea.

[Goinghomesoon]

31 minutes ago, giddyup said:

No idea.

Normally easy to determine, you don't need to put in any personal details, it's under "Work Out Your Residency Status"  https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/

[BB1958]

3 minutes ago, Goinghomesoon said:

Normally easy to determine, you don't need to put in any personal details, it's under "Work Out Your Residency Status"  https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/

GREAT resource, Many implications for many scenarios - surprised I did not know about this ☺️ 

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, Goinghomesoon said:

Normally easy to determine, you don't need to put in any personal details, it's under "Work Out Your Residency Status"  https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/International-tax-for-individuals/Work-out-your-tax-residency/

Thanks. It seems I am not an Australian resident for tax purposes.

[Will27]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

TATO and Centrelink computers share information , banks share information to ATO on bank interest paid, Centrelink cross match interest information from ATO with records of recipients of benefits.

Do not be surprised if they request an updated income and asset form at some time.

 

Yep, different government departments do share information, but I'm pretty sure both Centrelink and the ATO

don't have access to your bank accounts.

 

Sure the ATO know how much interest you've earned, but there's no way Centrelink and the ATO would just have

your bank account details on their computers at a push of a button.

 

They can request information from your bank if they provide certain documentation. 

 

It's a bit of a fallacy I think where people think any government department can just push a button

and everything just appears.

 

Banks do have privacy regulations as do the ATO and most other departments.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Will27

[Goinghomesoon]

21 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Sure the ATO know how much interest you've earned, but there's no way Centrelink and the ATO would just have

your bank account details on their computers at a push of a button.

 

They can request information from your bank if they provide certain documentation. 

 

It's a bit of a fallacy I think where people think any government department can just push a button

and everything just appears.

 

Banks do have privacy regulations as do the ATO and most other departments.

All true.  They need to have a legal reason under the Privacy Act to make the request.  Presumably giving one lot of financial information to the ATO and something different to Centrelink would trigger a review.  If the review determines an offence is reasonably suspected, they may have cause to request other records such as your bank accounts. 

[BB1958]

Don't assume that they cannot see your bank account...

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/government/centrelink/is-centrelink-checking-your-bank-account

[Will27]

1 hour ago, BB1958 said:

Don't assume that they cannot see your bank account...

 

https://www.yourlifechoices.com.au/government/centrelink/is-centrelink-checking-your-bank-account

That's basically what has been said in the above 2 posts.

 

They can request information, but there has to be an anomaly or a genuine reason under the Act to submit a request.

 

 

[moojar]

14 hours ago, norbra said:

For portability your  2 years starts from the date of your succesfull pension application

 

 

14 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/policy/portability-of-australian-income-support-payments#04

 

Suggest you work your way through this

Does the date of your application come into it?  I thought you could do something like a year before and a year after or whatever.  

 

This a good one, linked to from RJRS1301's link:  https://guides.dss.gov.au/guide-social-security-law/7/1/4  Seems to be written for Centrelink officers more than the public, and if that is as much detail as they are given it is no wonder we get so many varied reports of "what CL said".   

 

 

[RJRS1301]

8 hours ago, Will27 said:

Yep, different government departments do share information, but I'm pretty sure both Centrelink and the ATO

don't have access to your bank accounts.

 

Sure the ATO know how much interest you've earned, but there's no way Centrelink and the ATO would just have

your bank account details on their computers at a push of a button.

 

They can request information from your bank if they provide certain documentation. 

 

It's a bit of a fallacy I think where people think any government department can just push a button

and everything just appears.

 

Banks do have privacy regulations as do the ATO and most other departments.

ATO is notified of interest paid on balances of accounts, this information can be cross matched by Centrelink. Centrelink via ATO have access under legislation to financial assets of beneficiaries. Not by push of button, but via ATO cross matching.

[Will27]

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

ATO is notified of interest paid on balances of accounts, this information can be cross matched by Centrelink. Centrelink via ATO have access under legislation to financial assets of beneficiaries. Not by push of button, but via ATO cross matching.

There's pretty much 2 issues here.

 

Interest earned and declared.

Most people know about data-matching across departments.

You're pretty much just quoting from that article.

 

I'm saying (again) that the ATO and Centrelink do not have access to your accounts at the push

OR by cross matching. The ATO only know how much interest you declare and then it's data matched

from the banks.

 

I'm not sure if you're trying to scaremonger people here.

Account details (not just interest) need to be requested under sections of the Act.

 

[Nemises]

Lots of welfare cheat dobbing in the news at the moment. Careful who you tell your business to.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6086308310001


https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/90000-welfare-cheat-tip-offs/news-story/8e72f2a8a29ad296fb64c35f0ec5e979

[tifino]

for those subjectively interested...

 

the new Rates, including CutOff figures etc  

 

...mind you though; is the whole Kit and Caboodle 7 pages .pdf

includes ALL pensions!

 

W.E.F. from 20sep19: 

indexation-rates-september-2019.pdf

indexation-rates-september-2019.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by tifino

[Nemises]

Yes, bank statements going back at least 3 months generally. Remembering that all banks, ATO and Centrelink  share information . They also require updates of income and assets.
 

Thanks RJ. Re cash at bank...You say that Centrelink look back at “3 months” of bank statements prior to granting the aged pension. Is there a link around to confirm that they only look back 3 months? (I’m only talking about cash at bank....not other assets, income nor investments)

[tifino]

9 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Thanks RJ. Re cash at bank...You say that Centrelink look back at “3 months” of bank statements prior to granting the aged pension. Is there a link around to confirm that they only look back 3 months? (I’m only talking about cash at bank....not other assets, income nor investments)

if you only reveal the cash, and not all assets above and beyond the home itself... the will come a knocking! 

 

it is not about 'time' looking back...   the only time comes into it; is what they call the 'Exclusion Period'

This is related to your 'Income...including all Deemed Income.

An example of is if you receive a Lump Sum, a big Compensation Lump etc... 

 

when I was granted Pension; it was for 13 months, held over  for 13 months before I got my first Penny 

 

 

one thing the do 'look back' in time for;

is if you have Donated sums, say of over $10,000... or given away property i.e. the house, to the kids. 

 

 so... this all gives some detail to add  to what @RJRS1301  has mentioned  about Bank Accounts - unexplained funds disappearing? 

Edited September 16, 2019 by tifino

[Nemises]

I’m not asking about hiding/donating cash/disappearing funds. I’m just asking if there’s a link to confirm how far Centrelink look back at one’s bank account before granting the aged pension.

3 months was mentioned. I think they look back further. Hopefully there’s a link.

 

[RJRS1301]

11 minutes ago, Nemises said:

I’m not asking about hiding/donating cash/disappearing funds. I’m just asking if there’s a link to confirm how far Centrelink look back at one’s bank account before granting the aged pension.

3 months was mentioned. I think they look back further. Hopefully there’s a link.

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/services/centrelink/age-pension/how-claim/supporting-documents#a2

 

I mentioned 3/12 as that was what was required when I was assisting people in a professional capacity to access benefits, of course CL require information on all bank accounts and as stated by @ tifino, they can go back further to look for disposing of cash to meet qualifications.

This includes gifts to family members.

 

 

[Nemises]

^ For example... an eligible aged person returns to Australia to live permanently. He does his “2 years home detention” and then applies for the aged pension. He has no assets, no super, no income. All he has is cash in his bank account. The question is: How far back will Centrelink scrutinise his bank account to make sure old mate hasn’t withdrawn a fortune of cash leading up to him making his application? 3 months? 3 years? Longer?? (Looking for a link, not guesses... thanks[emoji120] )