Australian Aged Pension

[4MyEgo]

On 10/22/2023 at 1:04 AM, KhunHeineken said:

For those on a part pension, or self funded, i can't see the ATO allowing years of non resident tax to just die with an expat overseas.   

 

Take into consideration the thousands of retired expats living outside of Australia, and I hardly think it's a small debt that the ATO will write off, either individually, or collectively. 

Perhaps the powers that be above the ATO have given them specific instructions to leave those expat pensioners alone for the time being, e.g. if they were to return to Australia the burden/cost to the Australian government would be more.

 

Simple math would indicate that the government would have to pay additionally to the aged pension things like, Medicare, e.g. visits to Dr's, Specialists, hospital stays, prescription medications, rental assistance, aged pension energy allowance & supplement, then there's the travel side of things and so on and so forth.

 

Multiply the above and it could well exceed the 32.5% intended foreign resident tax, so perhaps leave the old bastards where they are as it's more feasible for them ? 

[LosLobo]

16 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Perhaps the powers that be above the ATO have given them specific instructions to leave those expat pensioners alone for the time being, e.g. if they were to return to Australia the burden/cost to the Australian government would be more.

 

Simple math would indicate that the government would have to pay additionally to the aged pension things like, Medicare, e.g. visits to Dr's, Specialists, hospital stays, prescription medications, rental assistance, aged pension energy allowance & supplement, then there's the travel side of things and so on and so forth.

 

Multiply the above and it could well exceed the 32.5% intended foreign resident tax, so perhaps leave the old bastards where they are as it's more feasible for them ? 

There is also Aged Care for residents where eligible, where funding of $60,000 a year is available.

 

Home Care Packages | My Aged Care

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

There is also Aged Care for residents where eligible, where funding of $60,000 a year is available.

 

Home Care Packages | My Aged Care

To get a home care package, one needs to have a home to go to.

[LosLobo]

20 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

To get a home care package, one needs to have a home to go to.

HCP is available for rented properties and there is also residential care for which there is also aged care funding.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, LosLobo said:

HCP is available for rented properties and there is also residential care for which there is also aged care funding.

Yes, I have heard how inexpensive residential aged care is.

[LosLobo]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Yes, I have heard how inexpensive residential aged care is.

As with the Aged Pension, Aged Care subsidies for HCP and Residential Care are means tested.

 

My out-of-pocket expenses for a HCP are under $5 a day, excluding food which has a 70% subsidy.

Edited October 23, 2023 by LosLobo

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

HCP is available for rented properties and there is also residential care for which there is also aged care funding.

Most/ all RSL Lifecare War Vets villages in Oz have a section deliberately set up (very well set up) for this situation. Excellent care, staff are all qualified nurses, many from Myanmar. 

[Lacessit]

9 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

As with the Aged Pension, Aged Care subsidies for HCP and Residential Care are means tested.

 

My out-of-pocket expenses for a HCP are under $5 a day, excluding food which has a 70% subsidy.

I don't know your circumstances. However, rents in Australia are presenting a choice to pensioners who don't own their own homes: To pay the rent, keep warm or cool, or eat.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Perhaps the powers that be above the ATO have given them specific instructions to leave those expat pensioners alone for the time being, e.g. if they were to return to Australia the burden/cost to the Australian government would be more.

 

Any legislation will be for everyone, unless exemptions and/or means testing is placed within the legislation.  There was no mention of either in the proposed changes.

 

The myth of it being too costly to the government to financially pressure retired expats to return to Australia has been discussed.  The main argument is medical costs, but all that will happen is the queue for Medicare gets longer.  They are not going to hire extra medical staff because over the next couple of years thousands of retired expats return to Australia, spread across the country. 

 

I have explained before how the government would like all that pension money circulating in the Australian economy, not assisting a foreign country's economy.  They get a lot of that pension money back in GST, excise, levies, tolls, fees, licenses, rates, insurance etc etc.  The rest helps create employment, and what do employees pay, income tax.

 

It's about repatriating that pension money.  They couldn't care less about the actual pensioner. 

 

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Simple math would indicate that the government would have to pay additionally to the aged pension things like, Medicare, e.g. visits to Dr's, Specialists, hospital stays, prescription medications, rental assistance, aged pension energy allowance & supplement, then there's the travel side of things and so on and so forth.

As mentioned, they will not increase Medicare services, just let the queue become longer.  

 

Same with public transport.  The buses and trains run anyway.  It's already paid for.  No problem if there is an extra passenger who is a pensioner getting a cheap ride.  That small amount paid by the pensioner for a train ride will be a bonus, because it's extra money.  That pensioner was living overseas before.  

 

Some of that rent assistance comes back in the form of the landlord paying tax on rental income, rates, capital gains on sale etc etc.  

 

As for energy allowance, that's another account / sale for an electricity company.  There's supply fee and GST on electricity.  

 

That liter of fuel at the servo, that beer at the RSL, that packet of cigarettes, most of it is tax, all going back to the egovernment.   

 

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Multiply the above and it could well exceed the 32.5% intended foreign resident tax, so perhaps leave the old bastards where they are as it's more feasible for them ? 

You are ignoring the flow on effect of having billions of dollars in pension money circulating in the Australian economy, and not a foreign country's  economy.  

[KhunHeineken]

On 10/21/2023 at 4:31 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Could that be because this topic is for the Australian Aged Pension and not what you are referring too.

 

Perhaps you can start a new topic as it gets very boring reading stuff that doesn't fit the topic one wants to read about, especially when you guys go back and forth beating your chests with nothing to talk of that relates to the Australia Aged Pension.

Is this on topic for "Australia Aged Pension?" 

 

https://www.austchamthailand.com/thai-government-to-begin-taxing-foreign-sourced-income-as-of-2024/

 

This guy explains it in simple terms. 

 

 

More information will be forthcoming, but it appears one may have to chose, or be deemed by either Australia, or Thailand, as to their tax residency status. 

 

Of interest, Australia says 183 days, but this guy says for Thailand it's 180 days.  If this is the case, the only way I can see getting around paying non resident tax in Australia is to spend 186 days inside Australia, then spend 179 days inside Thailand.  This will see you qualify as a resident for tax purposes of Australia, and a non resident for tax purposes of Thailand. 

 

Interesting times ahead, of course, all of this just could be for guys like Paul Hogan. 

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Perhaps the powers that be above the ATO have given them specific instructions to leave those expat pensioners alone for the time being, e.g. if they were to return to Australia the burden/cost to the Australian government would be more.

 

Simple math would indicate that the government would have to pay additionally to the aged pension things like, Medicare, e.g. visits to Dr's, Specialists, hospital stays, prescription medications, rental assistance, aged pension energy allowance & supplement, then there's the travel side of things and so on and so forth.

 

Multiply the above and it could well exceed the 32.5% intended foreign resident tax, so perhaps leave the old bastards where they are as it's more feasible for them ? 

of course that makes sense, but do civil servants and their masters know how to be smart and think further than today or the next election.  

[KhunHeineken]

23 hours ago, Artisi said:

of course that makes sense, but do civil servants and their masters know how to be smart and think further than today or the next election.  

 

We are all just a dollar value to them.  They couldn't care less about the citizens, infrastructure, and services provided. 

 

As I have said before, at near $1 Trillion dollars of debt, for a population of only 28 million people, they will be chasing every dollar, even from pensioners. 

[Nemises]

May interest, especially the 65 year olds returning to Australia to serve out their 2 years home detention to qualify for the age pension:

 

From tomorrow, a new type of shingles vaccine will be added to the National Immunisation Program (NIP) – and older Australians are among those who will receive it for free.

From 1 November, Shingrix will replaceZostavax as the vaccine used to protect against the often debilitating disease shingles.

The vaccine, which usually costs $560 per dose, will be free for anyone aged 65 and over. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

May interest, especially the 65 year olds returning to Australia to serve out their 2 years home detention to qualify for the age pension:

 

From tomorrow, a new type of shingles vaccine will be added to the National Immunisation Program (NIP) – and older Australians are among those who will receive it for free.

From 1 November, Shingrix will replaceZostavax as the vaccine used to protect against the often debilitating disease shingles.

The vaccine, which usually costs $560 per dose, will be free for anyone aged 65 and over. 

Just one point; folks returning to Oz for 2 years so that they can then clim lifetime portability of their old age pension is not 'detention'.

 

Yes to gain lifetime portability you have to go back and after 2 years you are entitled to lifetime portability. But:

 

- You are not detained / not confined to a specific address.

 

- Folks doing this can travel abroad during the 2 year period for short holidays, e.g. 3 to 4 weeks, 3 or 4 times a year (just suggested numbers, not quoted from any regulation), the accumulation of the 2 year period is NOT interupted. 

 

Yes it's an inconvenience but it's not to be dreaded or seen as any punishment. 

 

I did it and I was determined to make the best of it. I luckily found a wonderful very friendly, War Vets Village on the Northern beaches just above Sydney, had a great time, great health /medical facilties if needed, great food, lots of supported local travel / shopping etc. 

 

Also I used LINE (free to for voice and calls and for video chat) to keep in good contact with family and friends. Most days had a long video chat with my Thai son, his wife and my 4 grandchildren.  

 

I was determined to enjoy myself and I did.

Edited October 31, 2023 by scorecard

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

I luckily found a wonderful very friendly, War Vets Village

That’s great, but very few are lucky enough to obtain this type of accommodation for those 2 years which means they are up for exorbitant rental property costs - so expensive that many can’t afford to return to qualify for pension portability.  

[Seeall]

On 10/24/2023 at 11:17 AM, KhunHeineken said:

 

We are all just a dollar value to them.  They couldn't care less about the citizens, infrastructure, and services provided. 

 

As I have said before, at near $1 Trillion dollars of debt, for a population of only 28 million people, they will be chasing every dollar, even from pensioners. 

Worse is yet to come...

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Seeall said:

r is yet to come...

You quoting his  scaremongering rubbish to make some point or just passing  the time? 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, Seeall said:

Worse is yet to come...

-

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

  10 hours ago, Seeall said:

Worse is yet to come...

-

My posting error above. I was NOT trying to agree with the comment

"worse is yet to come". Apologies.

[KhunHeineken]

22 hours ago, Olmate said:

You quoting his  scaremongering rubbish to make some point or just passing  the time? 

How is it scaremongering?  It's all over the internet.

 

Here's another example.  This article is dated 29th September 2023 and is directed to those you are renting out a property. 

 

So, that would be someone on a part pension, renting out one or more properties in Australia, but living in Thailand. 

 

https://www.apimagazine.com.au/news/article/expatriate-aussies-face-massive-hit-to-tax-residency-status

 

"Such a move would reverse the tax-free status of many expatriate Australians and have ramifications for their property holdings."

 

How can article after article, through link after link, warning members of this forum that these charges are on the way, scaremongering? 

 

What will your post be when it's announced in the next budget, and comes into effect on the 1st July 2024?

[KhunHeineken]

23 hours ago, Seeall said:

Worse is yet to come...

Here's Australia's debt clock. 

 

https://australiandebtclock.com.au

 

Eye watering figures, increasing by the second. 

 

Take out children, pensioners, disabled, and others on Centerlink, then factor in big companies that don't pay any tax, and there's not many PAYG workers left to pay off this debt, and those workers are already the forth highest taxed people in the world, so there's not much more the government can squeeze out of them. 

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/tax/australian-taxpayers-hit-with-some-of-the-highest-taxes-in-the-world/news-story/4c6a05dbbbf4cf03bd843e0b3f94aa6b

 

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

How is it scaremongering?  It's all over the internet.

 

Here's another example.  This article is dated 29th September 2023 and is directed to those you are renting out a property. 

 

So, that would be someone on a part pension, renting out one or more properties in Australia, but living in Thailand. 

 

https://www.apimagazine.com.au/news/article/expatriate-aussies-face-massive-hit-to-tax-residency-status

 

"Such a move would reverse the tax-free status of many expatriate Australians and have ramifications for their property holdings."

 

How can article after article, through link after link, warning members of this forum that these charges are on the way, scaremongering? 

 

What will your post be when it's announced in the next budget, and comes into effect on the 1st July 2024?

 July 24?...Pre next election you mean!  You,ve been kicking this can uphill for years now.😄

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

How is it scaremongering?  It's all over the internet.

 

Here's another example.  This article is dated 29th September 2023 and is directed to those you are renting out a property. 

 

So, that would be someone on a part pension, renting out one or more properties in Australia, but living in Thailand. 

 

https://www.apimagazine.com.au/news/article/expatriate-aussies-face-massive-hit-to-tax-residency-status

 

"Such a move would reverse the tax-free status of many expatriate Australians and have ramifications for their property holdings."

 

How can article after article, through link after link, warning members of this forum that these charges are on the way, scaremongering? 

 

What will your post be when it's announced in the next budget, and comes into effect on the 1st July 2024?

What will your post be when it doesn't?

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, Olmate said:

 July 24?...Pre next election you mean!  You,ve been kicking this can uphill for years now.😄

 

Budget delivered in May 2024.  New laws come into effect 1st July 2024.  Pain starts for non residents 183 days later, so around the 1st January 2025.  PM calls a late election in May 2025, either after the budget if it's a good one, or before the budget if it's a bad one. 

 

By the time of the election, the changes to non resident for taxation purposes laws will be long forgotten, not to mention, expats don't make their way to an Embassy to vote anyway. 

 

You still seem to think that people living in Australia will give a sh*t about people living outside of Australia, and will vote in support.  I doubt they will care one bit. 

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

What will your post be when it doesn't?

 

I will post of my surprise if they don't come in, so will many financial organizations, accounting firms, investment houses etc etc. 

 

Then, I will post the name of the champagne I will be drinking that night.

 

We dodged a bullet in the last May budget.  We could dodge another bullet next May also, but in my opinion, it's only a matter of time before 90 year laws, that are now no longer fit for purpose, are modernized.

[KhunHeineken]

18 hours ago, scorecard said:

  10 hours ago, Seeall said:

Worse is yet to come...

-

My posting error above. I was NOT trying to agree with the comment

"worse is yet to come". Apologies.

 

Can you name some optimistic things about the Australian economic, as of November 2023?

[TroubleandGrumpy]

I am late to this post and cannot find the original post - I assume it is not back when this thread started in 2008.

I am usually across all these sort of things - is there something I missed?

Has there been a change of the laws relkating to the tax residency status for pensioners?

Why are people saying pensioners will/may be forced to return to Australia?

[scorecard]

On 11/1/2023 at 6:07 PM, Lacessit said:

What will your post be when it doesn't?

He'll invent another subject to upset folks. 

[scorecard]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:20 PM, Olmate said:

 July 24?...Pre next election you mean!  You,ve been kicking this can uphill for years now.😄

This comment is aimed the earlier poster khunhxxxxxxx. Perhaps you could wait a bit (or a long time) until there's total clarity and understanding of this subject. 

 

In the meantime please take a long holiday in antarctica on a one way ticket and no internet connection.

Edited November 8, 2023 by scorecard

[KhunHeineken]

On 11/7/2023 at 6:24 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Has there been a change of the laws relkating to the tax residency status for pensioners?

Why are people saying pensioners will/may be forced to return to Australia?

 

Put simply, the previous Liberal government proposed changes to 90 year old residency for taxation purposes laws.  The current Labor government are aware of the changes, with the assistant treasurer stating they are in the government's "in tray." Link already provided.

 

The changes go from "maintaining a domicile in Australia" and "intention to return to Australia" both of which are difficult for the government to prove, to laws based on "physical presence" and "time" in Australia.  The times being considered are 45 days and 183 days. 

 

Basically, if you are outside Australia for 183 days, and most Aussie expats in Thailand are, you will be deemed a non resident for tax purposes, and your pension, which is also deemed an income, MAY be taxed at the non resident tax rate of 32.5%.  In relation to pensions, rather than the payer then trying to collect, they may just withhold 32.5% of one's pension because immigration has informed Centerlink they have been outside of Australia for 183 days.  

 

No one is forcing pensioners to return to Australia, but pensioners have to consider if they can still remain in Thailand on 32.5% less income, or, return to Australia for 45 days and meet a couple of other simple criteria each year, or do the 183 days in Australia each year. 

 

As the proposed laws stand, there is no provision to add a tax free threshold to non resident tax brackets, and there's no mention of exemption, or asset / means testing. 

 

Plenty of links, quotes, youtube videos have been posted about it. 

 

I thought we dodged a bullet in the May budget for a start on the 1st July this year, but as other members have posted, it's looking like the 1st July 2024 may be the start day. 

 

Add to this, the Thai governments announcement that they will be taxing remitted funds into the accounts of foreigners, this may also put financial pressure on Aussie expats here as well. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by KhunHeineken