Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:43 AM, BritManToo said:

Yes it is, Oz only allow 1 state sponsored pension. If you worked in another country, say UK, Oz collects it for you and it's used towards you Oz pension.

To my knowledge, that is correct. 

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

Sounds like she had PR in Canada and worked there for years, thus, qualifying for a social security payment. 

 

That's not getting two pension payments in Australia though, is it? 

 

 

 

 

A social security payment is not a pension? She was getting a pension from Canada, and Australia.

BTW, there is no mention of your favorite topic in the changes to income support announced to commence from January 1.

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/2/2024 at 1:13 AM, Lacessit said:

A social security payment is not a pension?

Bit of a play on words, really.  The dole, disability, single mothers, aged pension, Austudy etc etc is know as welfare, benefits, entitlements, social security etc etc in Australia, and other countries.  They all are paid from a government department. 

 

On 1/2/2024 at 1:13 AM, Lacessit said:

She was getting a pension from Canada, and Australia.

But not a veteran's pension. 

 

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements/australia-and-canada-frequently-asked-questions

 

On 1/2/2024 at 1:13 AM, Lacessit said:

BTW, there is no mention of your favorite topic in the changes to income support announced to commence from January 1.

Ok, however............

 

Aged care: Wealthy boomers to be asked to pay more (smh.com.au)

 

Weren't you one of the members praising the new caring and sharing Albo government? 

 

I see this is his next distraction from the real issues. 

 

The Religious Discrimination Bill. 

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/we-re-facing-a-debate-as-divisive-as-the-voice-can-we-keep-this-one-civil-20231220-p5espu.html

 

A lot of people are struggling with the high cost of living and a housing shortage, but just like The Voice, he'll make sure The Religious Discrimination Bill will be on the front page. 

 

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Bit of a play on words, really.  The dole, disability, single mothers, aged pension, Austudy etc etc is know as welfare, benefits, entitlements, social security etc etc in Australia, and other countries.  They all are paid from a government department. 

 

But not a veteran's pension. 

 

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/current-international-social-security-agreements/australia-and-canada-frequently-asked-questions

 

Ok, however............

 

Aged care: Wealthy boomers to be asked to pay more (smh.com.au)

 

Weren't you one of the members praising the new caring and sharing Albo government? 

 

I see this is his next distraction from the real issues. 

 

The Religious Discrimination Bill. 

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/we-re-facing-a-debate-as-divisive-as-the-voice-can-we-keep-this-one-civil-20231220-p5espu.html

 

A lot of people are struggling with the high cost of living and a housing shortage, but just like The Voice, he'll make sure The Religious Discrimination Bill will be on the front page. 

 

For once , I agree with you. The Voice referendum didn't pass the smell test, and the majority of Australians voted accordingly.

As I am an agnostic, I am probably the one discriminated against if I was to repeat my schooling in the public system. Shoveling taxpayer money at already wealthy religious schools is my idea of waste.

However, please don't tell me Dutton would be any better. The only politician in Australia I have ever had any respect for is Tom Uren.

IIRC, the whole religious BS was initiated by ScoMo.

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/3/2024 at 11:30 AM, Lacessit said:

For once , I agree with you.

You agree with me many times, you just can't post it, because you would lose face. 

 

On 1/3/2024 at 11:30 AM, Lacessit said:

The Voice referendum didn't pass the smell test, and the majority of Australians voted accordingly.

The Voice was nothing more than a distraction to the real issues hurting voters.  Mainly, harsh economic issues.  Albo needed something to say "look what we are doing.  look what we have done. look how good we are.  we ave bought the nation together."  All the time pensioners can't even afford to turn their heater on in winter. 

 

On 1/3/2024 at 11:30 AM, Lacessit said:

However, please don't tell me Dutton would be any better. The only politician in Australia I have ever had any respect for is Tom Uren.

IIRC, the whole religious BS was initiated by ScoMo.

Never said Dutton would be better.  They are all as bad as each other as far as I am concerned. 

 

Ahh, Tom Uren.  Didn't thy nick name him "Tom Urea" because he was as weak as p*ss? 

 

The proposed changes to tax residency was also the ScoMo government.  Labor is running with ScoMo's religious discrimination bill as well. Perhaps a pattern is emerging.  

[Lacessit]

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You agree with me many times, you just can't post it, because you would lose face. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahh, Tom Uren.  Didn't thy nick name him "Tom Urea" because he was as weak as p*ss? 

 

I am not sure how I can lose face on a faceless forum, but do carry on with your delusion.

 

Tom Uren was principled in terms of refusing to accept a lucrative politician's pension, quitting shortly before he became eligible for it.

He also had an early career as a professional boxer, challenging for the Australian heavyweight championship.

 

Which facts serve to demonstrate how egregiously stupid some of your trolling posts can be.

[ozimoron]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:19 PM, scorecard said:

Just one point; folks returning to Oz for 2 years so that they can then clim lifetime portability of their old age pension is not 'detention'.

 

Yes to gain lifetime portability you have to go back and after 2 years you are entitled to lifetime portability. But:

 

- You are not detained / not confined to a specific address.

 

- Folks doing this can travel abroad during the 2 year period for short holidays, e.g. 3 to 4 weeks, 3 or 4 times a year (just suggested numbers, not quoted from any regulation), the accumulation of the 2 year period is NOT interupted. 

 

Yes it's an inconvenience but it's not to be dreaded or seen as any punishment. 

 

I did it and I was determined to make the best of it. I luckily found a wonderful very friendly, War Vets Village on the Northern beaches just above Sydney, had a great time, great health /medical facilties if needed, great food, lots of supported local travel / shopping etc. 

 

Also I used LINE (free to for voice and calls and for video chat) to keep in good contact with family and friends. Most days had a long video chat with my Thai son, his wife and my 4 grandchildren.  

 

I was determined to enjoy myself and I did.

 

Do you mean can travel WITHIN Australia during that 2 years? The govt site says the pension may stop if the person leaves Australia, presumably at all. As an ex public servant I also take that to mean a new application would need to be made upon return and the 2 year portability qualification period would start from 0 again.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

Do you mean can travel WITHIN Australia during that 2 years? The govt site says the pension may stop if the person leaves Australia, presumably at all. As an ex public servant I also take that to mean a new application would need to be made upon return and the 2 year portability qualification period would start from 0 again.

As mentioned this means 'abroad', and it doesn't interfere with (stop) accumulating the 2 years needed to gain portability..accumulation continues while the pensioner is abroad.

Centrelink is deliberately non committal about how long the pensioner can be abroad, 3 / 4 weeks per time has been mentioned and several times during the 2 years. The C'link officer did mention that very long trips abroad, especially if repeated can raise flags and in extreme cases this could cause cancellation of whatever had been accumulated. The C'link officer did continue further and say 'perhaps 6 months' but I'm not suggesting that's a regulation. As said they are deliberately non committal on this point.  

There are some circumstances where trips abroad can cause suspension of benefits. This seems to be folks who are different circumstances. For someone already receiving OAP payments I suggest It would be best to call the 'Older Aussies line 132300' and ask on this question. You will need to give your CRN (C'link Reference number). This line is always answered promptly and the officers are good listeners, they are polite and give clear answers.

I didn't travel abroad in the 2 years because it was the height of the Covid- 19 pandemic, travel out of Australia was possible but complicated and entry into Thailand was the same. I stayed put near Sydney. 

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

I didn't travel abroad in the 2 years because it was the height of the Covid- 19 pandemic, travel out of Australia was possible but complicated and entry into Thailand was the same. I stayed put near Sydney. 

I was in the reverse situation, locked out of Australia. After the lockout ended, returning Australians had to pay for the 14 days quarantine, up until July 22. It was a no-brainer to stay away.

 

It was actually a blessing in disguise, with all the lockdown BS going on in Victoria. In Chiang Rai, the lockdown consisted of two months where the golf courses and swimming pools were closed. Although a couple of the golf courses did stay open.

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:44 PM, Lacessit said:

I am not sure how I can lose face on a faceless forum, but do carry on with your delusion.

 

Tom Uren was principled in terms of refusing to accept a lucrative politician's pension, quitting shortly before he became eligible for it.

He also had an early career as a professional boxer, challenging for the Australian heavyweight championship.

 

Which facts serve to demonstrate how egregiously stupid some of your trolling posts can be.

Of course I was joking.  Lighten up little.  Life is too short, and getting shorter by the day. 

 

On a more serious note, my whole life I have only known the Labor and Liberal Party o be in government, and I'll go to the grave only knowing those two parties to govern Australia. 

 

It's a shame there isn't a viable third party in real contention during elections to keep the other two parties honest.  

[Lacessit]

55 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Of course I was joking.  Lighten up little.  Life is too short, and getting shorter by the day. 

 

On a more serious note, my whole life I have only known the Labor and Liberal Party o be in government, and I'll go to the grave only knowing those two parties to govern Australia. 

 

It's a shame there isn't a viable third party in real contention during elections to keep the other two parties honest.  

Of course you are joking when you get called out over a particularly stupid post, it's a pattern of yours.

 

IMO the TEAL independents are shaking up the major parties quite convincingly, either major party has to factor them into any legislation they bring to Parliament. It would not surprise me to learn the TEALS are pressuring Labor to drop the Stage 3 tax cuts.

 

Talking of tax, I am wondering what happens if your predicted 32.5% tax on overseas pensioners comes to be, along with the Thai government's new tax laws for expats. The legal eagles will have a field day determining what to do with the existing DTA.

 

[Artisi]

9 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Of course you are joking when you get called out over a particularly stupid post, it's a pattern of yours.

 

IMO the TEAL independents are shaking up the major parties quite convincingly, either major party has to factor them into any legislation they bring to Parliament. It would not surprise me to learn the TEALS are pressuring Labor to drop the Stage 3 tax cuts.

 

Talking of tax, I am wondering what happens if your predicted 32.5% tax on overseas pensioners comes to be, along with the Thai government's new tax laws for expats. The legal eagles will have a field day determining what to do with the existing DTA.

 

"Talking of tax, I am wondering what happens if your predicted 32.5% tax on overseas pensioners comes to be, along with the Thai government's new tax laws for expats. The legal eagles will have a field day determining what to do with the existing DTA."

 

sounds like a double smack in the face, but the pocket will take the biggest hit.

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/14/2024 at 2:04 PM, Lacessit said:

Of course you are joking when you get called out over a particularly stupid post, it's a pattern of yours.

 

IMO the TEAL independents are shaking up the major parties quite convincingly, either major party has to factor them into any legislation they bring to Parliament. It would not surprise me to learn the TEALS are pressuring Labor to drop the Stage 3 tax cuts.

 

Talking of tax, I am wondering what happens if your predicted 32.5% tax on overseas pensioners comes to be, along with the Thai government's new tax laws for expats. The legal eagles will have a field day determining what to do with the existing DTA.

 

Called out over what? It was a joke.  Read it again, GOM.

 

The TEAL's are doing well.  They could create a movement.  It would need a lot of financing.  Whilst I may not agree with their policies, I would certainly consider giving them my protest vote. 

 

Now, what happened to Albo's caring and sharing government?  

 

In relation to resident / non resident / Thailand / Australia tax, I have said before the only way to dodge both taxes, would be to about 186 day in Australia, which would be less them 180 days in Thailand.  

 

If you have a look at the UK forum, you will see an interesting thread where their big banks are starting to squeeze non residents.  I believe the UK also do not pass on CPI pension increases if you are outside of the UK, 

 

2024 set to be an interesting year fr many retired non resident expats. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/15/2024 at 12:03 AM, Artisi said:

"Talking of tax, I am wondering what happens if your predicted 32.5% tax on overseas pensioners comes to be, along with the Thai government's new tax laws for expats. The legal eagles will have a field day determining what to do with the existing DTA."

 

sounds like a double smack in the face, but the pocket will take the biggest hit.

Interesting times ahead in 2024. 

 

Australia may, or eventually want, their non resident tax, whilst Thailand is insisting on a resident tax.  It does seem we are heading towards being double taxed for living in Thailand.  

 

An expat can escape Thailand's tax by having a holiday in a neighboring country for a week every 6 months, thus, always remaining under the 180 days, but escaping Australia's non resident tax may prove to be a lot more difficult.  

[Lacessit]

33 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Interesting times ahead in 2024. 

 

Australia may, or eventually want, their non resident tax, whilst Thailand is insisting on a resident tax.  It does seem we are heading towards being double taxed for living in Thailand.  

 

An expat can escape Thailand's tax by having a holiday in a neighboring country for a week every 6 months, thus, always remaining under the 180 days, but escaping Australia's non resident tax may prove to be a lot more difficult.  

If one is married to a Thai, anyone on the Australian OAP will be taxed very lightly, with the various allowances. Those amount to 560,000 baht. On current exchange rates, the single OAP is about 605,000 baht.

Therefore, tax payable in Thailand is 2250 baht.

I think it would be amusing if someone mounted a class action against the Australian government for failing to observe a double taxation agreement with Thailand.

[KhunHeineken]

41 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If one is married to a Thai, anyone on the Australian OAP will be taxed very lightly, with the various allowances. Those amount to 560,000 baht. On current exchange rates, the single OAP is about 605,000 baht.

Therefore, tax payable in Thailand is 2250 baht.

I think it would be amusing if someone mounted a class action against the Australian government for failing to observe a double taxation agreement with Thailand.

Did you notice I said "taxed?"  I didn't mention what amount.  Your amount seems to conflict with other amounts posted on other threads, by other members, who have crunched some numbers. 

 

Thailand's tax is on remitted funds. They don't care about the source, or the source country.  I suppose you are going to give me the "pensioners in Thailand will be up in arms about it" speech for a reason why Thailand will never do it, all the while while they are actually doing it. 

 

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Did you notice I said "taxed?"  I didn't mention what amount.  Your amount seems to conflict with other amounts posted on other threads, by other members, who have crunched some numbers. 

 

Thailand's tax is on remitted funds. They don't care about the source, or the source country.  I suppose you are going to give me the "pensioners in Thailand will be up in arms about it" speech for a reason why Thailand will never do it, all the while while they are actually doing it. 

 

I'll be applying to the RD for a tax number next month, but keep on making your dumb assumptions.

 

Thailand's tax is on income. Anyone who can prove their funds come from savings accumulated prior to January 1, 2024 won't be taxed on those remitted funds. Sloppy research on your part.

 

Show me what other posts have calculated is the Thai tax on income for an expat married to a Thai, on the OAP alone. I suspect your comment is another trolling attempt.

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I'll be applying to the RD for a tax number next month

Good to see you are doing something about it, and not just wishing / posting that the bad news will go away, just because it's bad news, 

 

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Thailand's tax is on income. Anyone who can prove their funds come from savings accumulated prior to January 1, 2024 won't be taxed on those remitted funds.

See the words "income" and "savings?"  Is an aged pension an income, yes.  Is an aged pension earned from savings, no. 

 

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Show me what other posts have calculated is the Thai tax on income for an expat married to a Thai, on the OAP alone.

You are the one banging on about marriage.  Many people are not married. 

 

In any case, by your own admission, there will be tax to pay in Thailand, and that's all I have ever said. 

 

Please keep researching your own research to keep proving me correct.   

[Lacessit]

49 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Good to see you are doing something about it, and not just wishing / posting that the bad news will go away, just because it's bad news, 

 

See the words "income" and "savings?"  Is an aged pension an income, yes.  Is an aged pension earned from savings, no. 

 

You are the one banging on about marriage.  Many people are not married. 

 

In any case, by your own admission, there will be tax to pay in Thailand, and that's all I have ever said. 

 

Please keep researching your own research to keep proving me correct.   

Let's say I have $100,000 in savings which I have accumulated prior to January 1, 2024. I can remit what I need without being taxed, and accumulate the OAP in an Australian bank account until said savings are exhausted. Perhaps you missed that part of the briefing by Mike Lister.

 

Many Australian retiress in Thailand are married to Thais too. I might join them.

 

My research proves you have your head up your @rse.

 

[Rimmer]

A Baiting / flame and replies has been removed

[4MyEgo]

On 1/15/2024 at 1:04 AM, Lacessit said:

Talking of tax, I am wondering what happens if your predicted 32.5% tax on overseas pensioners comes to be, along with the Thai government's new tax laws for expats. The legal eagles will have a field day determining what to do with the existing DTA.

 

From my extensive research on the Age Pension over the years, it is clearly written that the Australian Age Pension is not taxable in Australia if it is your only source of income, however if you receive other money, be it from dividends, working part time etc etc, then it all gets assessed on the Australian Taxation Scale, meaning your Age Pension also gets taxed, as all the income is in one basket, lets not forget you get the $18,200 tax free threshold.

 

Google, copied and pasted:

 

The Age Pension forms part of your taxable income. However, if it is your only source of retirement income, you will pay no tax. If you're on the Age Pension, you also receive health benefits and reduced charges on rates, telephones, gas and electricity, car registration and public transport.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/government-payments-and-allowances#ato-Taxfreegovernmentpensionsorbenefits

 

Now, as far as I can see, the Age Pension has not come up anywhere in writing as being taxable overseas, that's because it's not, and will not be come 1 July 2024. The rate of 32% as some scaremongers are and have suggested won't happen, why, because it is not assessable income in Australia if you have no other source of income, now read that last part again, yep, my interpretation is, because the Age Pension is not assessable income in Australia if you have no other source of income, then it won't be taxed, regardless if your living overseas, suffice to say I know a few on the Oz Age Pension living here for years and they don't pay tax, and they are non residents.

 

https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/coming-to-australia-or-going-overseas/your-tax-residency

 

There is NOTHING that says Age Pensioners have to pay tax if they live overseas.

 

I believe where people get their nickers twisted is when the Age Pension is assessable income, i.e. when other sources of income come into the mix, e.g. hypothetically speaking, if I am a non resident, and I am on the Age Pension and I am living overseas and I make an income from other sources, then I have to file a tax return and it ALL of it goes into the mix and gets taxed, the only difference is there is no $18,200 threshold, plus the tax rate is higher for non residents.

 

If you are a non resident and you don't have any other source of income, then your pension is not assessable, same if you are a resident in Australia.

 

This all makes sense to me, and that is why they don't tax Australian's on the Age Pension and non residents on the Age Pension. 

 

Those saying that come 1 July is going to be a bad day for Australian Age Pensioners who are non residents are unfortunately talking BS in my opinion. I will stand corrected if they can back it up with some link stating the obvious, i.e. that overseas Age Pensioners who are non residents are taxed at 32%, now please don't send me an ATO link where someone online sent in a query and was told they pay 32% tax, that is because they also have an income on top of their Age Pension.

 

Now to cover something else you mentioned later on in a post regarding tax in Thailand.

 

I copied and pasted the below, so I can't take credit for it, and as it was from another source I suggest you and others peruse it, as it does make sense.

 

Income that is remitted to Thailand is assessable in Thailand, funds that remain outside Thailand are not. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.

 

 

Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service and NHS pensions are not! Australian old age pension is assessable income in Thailand. 

 

Taxable Income per year (Baht) Tax rate:

 

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

 

The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

 

Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

I HOPE THE ABOVE HELPS CLEAR THINGS UPS, WITHOUT GETTING INTO A TENNIS MATCH WITH SOME.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

From my extensive research on the Age Pension over the years, it is clearly written that the Australian Age Pension is not taxable in Australia if it is your only source of income, however if you receive other money, be it from dividends, working part time etc etc, then it all gets assessed on the Australian Taxation Scale, meaning your Age Pension also gets taxed, as all the income is in one basket, lets not forget you get the $18,200 tax free threshold.

 

Now, as far as I can see, the Age Pension has not come up anywhere in writing as being taxable overseas, i.e. at a rate of 32% as some scaremongers are and have suggested, why, because it is not assessable income in Australia if you have no other source of income, now read that last part again, yep, my interpretation is, because the Age Pension is not assessable income in Australia if you have no other source of income, then it won't be taxed, regardless if your living overseas, suffice to say I know a few on the Oz Age Pension living here for years and they don't pay tax, and they are non residents.

 

I believe where people get their nickers twisted is when the Age Pension is assessable income, i.e. when other sources of income come into the mix, e.g. hypothetically speaking, if I am a non resident, and I am on the Age Pension and I am living overseas and I make an income from other sources, then I have to file a tax return and it ALL of it goes into the mix and gets taxed, the only difference is there is no $18,200 threshold, plus the tax rate is higher for non residents.

 

If you are a non resident and you don't have any other source of income, then your pension is not assessable, same if you are a resident in Australia.

 

This all makes sense to me, and that is why they don't tax Australian's on the Age Pension and non residents on the Age Pension. 

 

Those saying that come 1 July is going to be a bad day for Australian Age Pensioners who are non residents are unfortunately talking BS in my opinion. I will stand corrected if they can back it up with some link stating the obvious, i.e. that overseas Age Pensioners who are non residents are taxed at 32%, now please don't send me an ATO link where someone online sent in a query and was told they pay 32% tax, that is because they also have an income on top of their Age Pension.

 

Now to cover something else you mentioned later on in a post regarding tax in Thailand.

 

I copied and pasted the below, so I can't take credit for it, and as it was from another source I suggest you and others peruse it, as it does make sense.

 

Income that is remitted to Thailand is assessable in Thailand, funds that remain outside Thailand are not. If we take the simplest type of income and say that you transfer personal savings from overseas to Thailand and those savings were earned before 1 January 2024, those funds are not assessable. But savings earned after that date are, hence the date when the income is earned is extremely important. A word of caution, you may be asked to provide proof that savings were earned before 1 January 2024.

 

 

Another common type of income is pensions, which can be complicated, depending on the type of pension and the country that it comes from. The country of origin is important because there are over 60 different types of Dual Tax Agreements, sometimes called Double Taxation Agreements (DTA’s), between Thailand and those 60+ countries and each one is different. As a general rule, most private or company pensions from most countries appear to be assessable here but YOU will need to confirm that yours is or is not. If that is true, private and company pension income IS assessable income in Thailand.

 

US Social Security payments, a form of pension paid to some older people, can only be taxed by the US under DTA rules and Thailand is forbidden from taxing them, this means those payments are NOT assessable income. UK State pension on the other hand is not covered by a DTA so it is assessable income in Thailand whilst UK Government or Civil Service and NHS pensions are not! Australian old age pension is assessable income in Thailand. 

 

Taxable Income per year (Baht) Tax rate:

 

0 – 150,000 Exempt

150,000 – 300,000 5%

300,000 – 500,000 10%

500,000 – 750,000 15%

1,000,000 – 2,000,000 25%

2,000,000 – 4,000,000 30%

Over 4,000,000 35%

 

The Thai tax system contains a series of Allowances, Deductions and Exemptions that will help you reduce your tax bill and they are very generous. It is easily possible for the average expat foreign retiree to reduce their taxable income by 500,000 baht or more each year. For example, a retiree aged 65 years of age, married and living here full time, supporting a Thai wife who has no income and doesn’t file tax return, is allowed the following:

 

 

a. Personal Allowance for self - 60,000

b. Personal Allowance for wife - 60,000

c. Over age 65 years exemption - 190,000

d. 50% of pension income received, up to 100k - 100,000

e. In addition, the first 150,000 of assessable income is zero rated and free of tax

 

 

Additional deductions and allowances exist for health or life insurance premiums paid in Thailand. A complete list of deductions, allowances and exemptions can be found here

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html  or from Sherrings below.

https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-deductions-allowances-thailand.html

 

I HOPE THE ABOVE HELPS CLEAR THINGS UPS, WITHOUT GETTING INTO A TENNIS MATCH WITH SOME.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No doubt our resident prophet of doom will be along, appending links to proposals which are not legislated.

 

IMO there is a lot of detail yet to be worked out in the Thai tax system. For example, I could draw down on the capital of my investments and cash on deposit in Australia, bank the pension I get in Australia, and there would be nothing the RD could lay claim to.

 

I intend to get a Thai tax number from the Revenue Department. However, whether I actually am required to have one by Immigration, or need to put in a tax return if I am only remitting savings, are unknowns at present.

 

[KhunHeineken]

29 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

From my extensive research on the Age Pension over the years, it is clearly written that the Australian Age Pension is not taxable in Australia if it is your only source of income, however if you receive other money, be it from dividends, working part time etc etc, then it all gets assessed on the Australian Taxation Scale, meaning your Age Pension also gets taxed, as all the income is in one basket, lets not forget you get the $18,200 tax free threshold.

What about for non resident for taxation purposes?  Did you research that, because that's what most Aussie expats are, non resident for taxation purposes. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 1/17/2024 at 4:00 PM, Lacessit said:

Let's say I have $100,000 in savings which I have accumulated prior to January 1, 2024. I can remit what I need without being taxed, and accumulate the OAP in an Australian bank account until said savings are exhausted. Perhaps you missed that part of the briefing by Mike Lister.

 

Many Australian retiress in Thailand are married to Thais too. I might join them.

 

My research proves you have your head up your @rse.

 

You are on a part pension.  Do you have any advice for those on a full aged pension and living full time in Thailand?  Those that are living fortnight to fortnight on their Aussie aged pension, or, are you going to say the aged pension is "savings?"   

[KhunHeineken]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

No doubt our resident prophet of doom will be along, appending links to proposals which are not legislated.

 

IMO there is a lot of detail yet to be worked out in the Thai tax system. For example, I could draw down on the capital of my investments and cash on deposit in Australia, bank the pension I get in Australia, and there would be nothing the RD could lay claim to.

 

I intend to get a Thai tax number from the Revenue Department. However, whether I actually am required to have one by Immigration, or need to put in a tax return if I am only remitting savings, are unknowns at present.

 

If the proposed changes to residency tax law are passed in Australia, what tax you have to pay in Thailand will be the least of most people's worries. 

 

Tax is doom.  There's no happy side to tax. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Now, as far as I can see, the Age Pension has not come up anywhere in writing as being taxable overseas, that's because it's not, and will not be come 1 July 2024. The rate of 32% as some scaremongers are and have suggested won't happen, why, because it is not assessable income in Australia if you have no other source of income, now read that last part again, yep, my interpretation is, because the Age Pension is not assessable income in Australia if you have no other source of income, then it won't be taxed, regardless if your living overseas, suffice to say I know a few on the Oz Age Pension living here for years and they don't pay tax, and they are non residents.

Wrong.

 

It's about one's residency status for taxation purposes, not the source of the income.

 

And again, for those who try to use their own interpretation to wish it all away.

 

https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380

 

It's a tax that should have always been paid, but there were too many loopholes, thus, the government proposed to move from one's "intention" which is difficult to prove, to a time based criteria of physical presence.  

 

183 days inside Australia - resident.  183 days outside Australia - non resident.  How do you propose to get around this? 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

You are on a part pension.  Do you have any advice for those on a full aged pension and living full time in Thailand?  Those that are living fortnight to fortnight on their Aussie aged pension, or, are you going to say the aged pension is "savings?"   

My advice would be to marry a Thai, if they are not married already. Then they would only be taking a very small hit in terms of Thai taxation. What's yours, slash their wrists?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

What about for non resident for taxation purposes?  Did you research that, because that's what most Aussie expats are, non resident for taxation purposes. 

While we are doing the what-aboutism, how do you know the age pension will not be exempted from the resident-non-resident determination of tax status?

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

What about for non resident for taxation purposes?  Did you research that, because that's what most Aussie expats are, non resident for taxation purposes. 

 

I would say you didn't read my full post ?

 

Extract: 

 

There is NOTHING that says Age Pensioners have to pay tax if they live overseas.

 

I believe where people get their nickers twisted is when the Age Pension is assessable income, i.e. when other sources of income come into the mix, e.g. hypothetically speaking, if I am a non resident, and I am on the Age Pension and I am living overseas and I make an income from other sources, then I have to file a tax return and ALL of it goes into the mix and gets taxed, the only difference is there is no $18,200 threshold, plus the tax rate is higher for non residents.

 

If you are a non resident and you don't have any other source of income, then your pension is not assessable, same if you are a resident in Australia.

 

This all makes sense to me, and that is why they don't tax Australian's on the Age Pension and non residents on the Age Pension. 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Wrong.

 

It's about one's residency status for taxation purposes, not the source of the income.

 

And again, for those who try to use their own interpretation to wish it all away.

 

https://community.ato.gov.au/s/question/a0J9s0000002ngF/p00172380

 

It's a tax that should have always been paid, but there were too many loopholes, thus, the government proposed to move from one's "intention" which is difficult to prove, to a time based criteria of physical presence.  

 

183 days inside Australia - resident.  183 days outside Australia - non resident.  How do you propose to get around this? 

 

Again, you didn't read my post, you cannot find anything in the legislation that states that an Age Pensioner has to pay the 32c in the $ if they live overseas, look at the keyword I highlighted in bold from the ATO link, which means squat if your only source of income is the Age Pension when you live overseas.

 

Note the key word below is all income, but if your only source of income is the Age Pension, you won't pay tax on it, same as in Australia.

 

If you disagree, then put up, show US where it says the Age Pension is taxable by it's self if you are a non resident.

 

I couldn't show you a link that says it's taxable as a non resident if it's your only source of income.

 

So accept the fact, it is what it is.

 

As a foreign resident for tax purposes, you will pay income tax according to foreign resident rates. This means for all income under $180k, you'll pay 32.5c per dollar. You would only report and pay tax on your Australian-sourced income to us.

 

You'll likely be eligible for the seniors and pensioners tax offset (SAPTO) though, meaning you'll get a tax offset to help counter the tax payable. You don't have to be a resident for tax purposes to receive this.