Australian Aged Pension

[fishhooks]

The other forum mentioned above, run by "Banjo" is quite good but is mainly dealing with DSP Pension issues.

They have however been trying to integrate more into normal pension issues.

From what has been noted in this thread over a long time, if you are in the main living or spending longish periods overseas around the time of applying for the pension, you may have problems and run into the 2 year at home rule.

If 'your friend' has established himself off-shore as you say, I think it will be hard to get around as others have found. C/L Tasmania is usually the best port of call for this type of thing.

Edited March 26, 2011 by fishhooks

[Nignoy]

Centrelink strikes again, we leave queensland on the 31st of march on our 2yearly 6 month trip,I am 67 and my wife 65 both australian OAP,s. Now 14 days before leaving we had to report for an interview to supply details of our trip as per the new centrelink rules, we have to supply contact details for every place we were visiting and literally having to ask for permission to proceed on holiday, we were told there were new rules for australian pensioners overseas and they would send us the forms to be filled in before we left, if expats who have there own property in australia but live more than 11months a year overseas, the value of their australian property will be deemed as Capital income and pensions of both partners will be reduced to balance this, there are too many new rules and regulations to mention here, any one interested in seeing the letter first hand pm please Iwill email them, that is going to put the kybosh on people like us who having been houseswapping for over 10 years now, they are trying I dont know how to deem this as a business

[egg]

this is an edited peice l got in an email ,, l am not sure of the source or its validity,,,,

BENEFITS AUSTRALIAN AGED ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES

PENSIONER LIVING IN AUSTRALIA

weekly allowance $253.00 $472.50

weekly spouse allowance $56.00 $472.50

additional weekly

hardship allowance $0.00 $145.00

l cant verify this ,, but it would not surprise me ,,, if it is correct ,, its a bloody disgrace

[egg]

this is an edited peice l got in an email ,, l am not sure of the source or its validity,,,,

BENEFITS AUSTRALIAN AGED ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES

PENSIONER LIVING IN AUSTRALIA

weekly allowance $253.00 $472.50

weekly spouse allowance $56.00 $472.50

additional weekly

hardship allowance $0.00 $145.00

l cant verify this ,, but it would not surprise me ,,, if it is correct ,, its a bloody disgrace

that didn't come out quite as l wanted ,,,, the first figure is what is paid to OAP ,, the second is what is paid to illegal immigrants/refugees in Australia

[seekingfriends]

hi guys . spoke to a friend two months ago .who claimes a pension while living in thailand just claim the pension in australia. and get it payed into you aust bank account ..its thats simple . james hat yai , sydney

[Nignoy]

for fishhooks and all the others who asked for copies of the letter, Will get them to you all as soon as possible, did not expect such a huge response, a comment there about pensions being paid into an australian bank account, the only accounts that CL cannot access or remove funds from is a mortgage account, check online issues of courier mail, from january, an old lady in brisbane had been supposedly overpaid 11 dollars a month for a number of years by cl, centrelink removed the overpayment from her bank account, clearing the account of funds and closing it ,poor old dear only found out about it when she recieved her statement, she went to an rsl ombudsman who proved that centrelink were in the wrong, pensioners need protection from centrelink clowns!!

[egg]

for fishhooks and all the others who asked for copies of the letter, Will get them to you all as soon as possible, did not expect such a huge response, a comment there about pensions being paid into an australian bank account, the only accounts that CL cannot access or remove funds from is a mortgage account, check online issues of courier mail, from january, an old lady in brisbane had been supposedly overpaid 11 dollars a month for a number of years by cl, centrelink removed the overpayment from her bank account, clearing the account of funds and closing it ,poor old dear only found out about it when she recieved her statement, she went to an rsl ombudsman who proved that centrelink were in the wrong, pensioners need protection from centrelink clowns!!

Hi Nignoy

l was going to pm you but l thought you maybe snowed under with pm's ,,,any chance you can scan it and post on here ,, or is that not allowed ,,, could save you a lot of finger work

cheers

egg

[7by7]

any chance you can scan it and post on here ,, or is that not allowed

No problem with that, just upload it as an attachment.

Remember, though, that this is a public forum so any identifying info should be removed.

[fishhooks]

hi guys . spoke to a friend two months ago .who claimes a pension while living in thailand just claim the pension in australia. and get it payed into you aust bank account ..its thats simple ................... james hat yai , sydney..............................

Appreciate the advice, but doubt that it's that simple.

Don't forget that Centrelinks "Very Best Friend" is the little man (or lady) who you meet on departure at the airport.

Your name and destination is within microseconds flashing in big lights on Centrelinks computers!

[OLDAUSSIE]

Question to add to the others, when applying for retirement and you have to provide proof of income which one gets from Aussie embassy, do the staff at embassy ask for proof of your monthly income, and by the way I am from USA.

The Australian Embassy does require proof, but the US Embassy does not.

[OZEMADE]

Question to add to the others, when applying for retirement and you have to provide proof of income which one gets from Aussie embassy, do the staff at embassy ask for proof of your monthly income, and by the way I am from USA.

No you do NOT have to provide evidence or proof of income to the Australian embassy or their staff. All you have to do is fill out a Stat Dec of your income and they sign it as being true and correct. They put the Embassy seal on the Stat Dec and this is what you hand into Thai Immigration for your proof of income for a Retirement Visa. Make sure you keep a copy.

[sceadugenga]

Media Releases

Supporting Australians with disability into work

Date:

10/05/2011

Joint Media Release with:

Senator Chris Evans, Minister for Tertiary Education, Skills, Jobs and Workplace Relations

Senator Jan McLucas, Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities and Carers

Kate Ellis MP, Minister for Employment Participation

New rules for overseas travel for people with severe disability

The Government also recognises that the DSP is an essential safety net for those who cannot work.

New, more generous rules from 1 July 2012, will allow people receiving DSP who have a permanent disability and no future work capacity, to travel overseas for more than 13 weeks while retaining access to their pension.

In addition, DSP recipients who are severely disabled and are required to accompany a family member who has been posted overseas by their Australian employer will be entitled to continue to receive their pension for the period of the family member’s posting. These pensioners will not be eligible for add-on payments such as the Pension Supplement or Rent Assistance while they are overseas. These changes deliver a net saving of $19.0 million over four years.

Existing portability rules will continue to apply to DSP recipients who may have some ability to work. Other working age payments will not be affected by these changes to portability arrangements.

http://www.jennymacklin.fahcsia.gov.au/mediareleases/2011/Pages/b05_10052011.aspx

[HPOS]

From Kenny's Aussie Bar - Phuket

"Information session on rules regarding claims and qualification for Australian Pensions, presented by currrent Centrelink representative with 21 years' experience (in Centrelink International Services and International Program in Hobart). Hear it straight from someone who knows and , rather than from hearsay and "that's what I heard from a friend of a friend of mine" type stuff that you get from forums. Will be able to explain rules regarding qualification, payment outside Australia, and anything else relating to pensions (not visas or immigration matters). No advice can be provide on individual cases - this is a general information session only - with the intention of explaining legislation and dispelling rumours and myths which appear on forums, and providing details of who to contact for further information and advice if required before making life altering decisions."

This is being held in Karon, at Kenny's Aussie Bar, on Thursday, 9th June at 2:00pm.

Speaker is from Hobart office.

[fishhooks]

Well, I may have some info, don't know whether if it's in the category of "from the horses mouth" but I recently won this Pension, right on the 65th and with no need to spend any further qualifying period.

I've posted on here in the past that I suspect the main thing that will cause anyone a problem in obtaining the payment, is ones apparent dislocation from Oz in the period leading up to qualification. No matter if the main part of your working life has been spent in Australia.

If you've sold-up your home and have no evidence of being on-shore most of the time, including bank accounts, insurance, many long periods of utility payments for gas, electricity & water etc., alarm bells ring at Centrelink and you may be called to provide proof of continual residence.

I did think over the last couple of years that I may have problems, due to several trips, some of a few months at a time in Thailand, but in the end no problem.

The in's and out's on Centrelinks files provided by Australian Immigration were substantial on my part, but obviously did not come into the final equation, so a bit of relief now.

Not that this pension is anything to get exited about, but I guess if one had to exist on it in Thailand it may be a help if you may still have some other savings etc to back it up.

From what others have posted on this thread, once you have this payment, and I guess sit on it in Australia for a while, whatever that may entail, it's not hard to jump ship and move out and still retain the pension! But the critical part is in the time leading up to qualification.

Be really interested in what this information session mentioned above brings up and if it tally's in any way with my experience.

Hope this helps for some who may have been in a similar situation to myself over recent years.

[afarang]

Time for a piece of repitition. The current rule, regarding residency is :: That the applicant MUST have spent 2 out of the last 5 years ,as a permanent resident IN Australia. This rule was bought in during the Howard Govt., and as near as I can understand it, was directed at New Zealander and Pacific Islanders rorting the system. We just happened to have got caught up in a "catch all" scenario.And I got caught. I had to spend 2 years living in Oz, after my pension was approved, before I could get portability and return to living in Thailand. What was distressing ,I had a Thai wife and 2 children IN Thailand.I was stuck in OZ.. Heartbreak.Don't expect Centrelink branch staff ,to know about this. Many Don't, only Hobart does. I can guarantee you, this is absolutely NON- NEGOTIABLE.

[Old Croc]

Well, I may have some info, don't know whether if it's in the category of "from the horses mouth" but I recently won this Pension, right on the 65th and with no need to spend any further qualifying period.

I've posted on here in the past that I suspect the main thing that will cause anyone a problem in obtaining the payment, is ones apparent dislocation from Oz in the period leading up to qualification. No matter if the main part of your working life has been spent in Australia.

If you've sold-up your home and have no evidence of being on-shore most of the time, including bank accounts, insurance, many long periods of utility payments for gas, electricity & water etc., alarm bells ring at Centrelink and you may be called to provide proof of continual residence.

I did think over the last couple of years that I may have problems, due to several trips, some of a few months at a time in Thailand, but in the end no problem.

The in's and out's on Centrelinks files provided by Australian Immigration were substantial on my part, but obviously did not come into the final equation, so a bit of relief now.

Not that this pension is anything to get exited about, but I guess if one had to exist on it in Thailand it may be a help if you may still have some other savings etc to back it up.

From what others have posted on this thread, once you have this payment, and I guess sit on it in Australia for a while, whatever that may entail, it's not hard to jump ship and move out and still retain the pension! But the critical part is in the time leading up to qualification.

Be really interested in what this information session mentioned above brings up and if it tally's in any way with my experience.

Hope this helps for some who may have been in a similar situation to myself over recent years.

I gather from this that you were still living in Australia in the 2 years leading up to your 65th? Your travel to Thailand in this period were for relatively short periods?

So your qualification would be different from someone like myself who, after working in Oz all my life, will have been out of the country permanently for more than 2 years (3years) at 65. So I probably wont get it without qualifying again? (I'll try to get to the info session and ask this question.)

In the meantime, looking at the media release from Scea, I may be able to requalify for the partial DSP in 2012, which I lost 13 weeks after moving to Thailand. I wonder how that would affect the transition to OAP?

(edit: posted this before reading afarang's post)

Edited June 2, 2011 by Old Croc

[Old Croc]

Question to add to the others, when applying for retirement and you have to provide proof of income which one gets from Aussie embassy, do the staff at embassy ask for proof of your monthly income, and by the way I am from USA.

No you do NOT have to provide evidence or proof of income to the Australian embassy or their staff. All you have to do is fill out a Stat Dec of your income and they sign it as being true and correct. They put the Embassy seal on the Stat Dec and this is what you hand into Thai Immigration for your proof of income for a Retirement Visa. Make sure you keep a copy.

Can this be done by an Honourary Consul (Phuket), or is it another simple piece of paperwork that can only be done in the Bangkok Embassy resulting in lost time and money for people who live elsewhere in the Kingdom?

[fishhooks]

Old Croc

Not sure if you are in Thailand at present, but many articles here in Australia in all media about a major review of DSP, seems the number of recipients is increasing way over the top each year, so they are looking into all aspects of it.

I think one thing they will really hit will be portability.

[afarang]

To Old Croc, the rule is 2 years out of the last 5 , as a permanent resident in Oz..I hadn't achieved that, as I had been a permanent resident in Thailand for more than 5 years. That is why I was forced to spend at least a minimum of 2 years ,as a permanent resident in Oz..Before my pension became "portable ,and I was able to return to Thailand.And Centrelink are linked in to Immigrations computers,

[merlen10002]

I am 73 years old and recieve the old age pension here in Thailand and have been getting it for the last three years, and will receive it for the rest of my life even if I live in Thailand, it is paid into my Thai bank account once a month by Centrelink international services, you must be in Australia to apply for the age pension and it can take a long time,,, it took six months to get my pension approved, the rent, electricity,gas, assistant are not paid to overseas penioners, they cancel the medic care card and the pensioner card, you only get the pension no add ons, the oveseas dept of Centrelink is in Hobart Tas, you can phone them on a toll free number ,, 001 800 611 4136 ,, or email them at ,, international.services(at)centrelink.gov.au they are very good and help a lot. you can receive the Australian pension in any country in the world and they will pay it into a bank for you. it is very good, lots of silly things said about overseas pensions. call centrelink and get the true story.

Edited June 2, 2011 by 7by7
Email link removed to frustrate spambots, as per forum rule 13.

[Old Croc]

To Old Croc, the rule is 2 years out of the last 5 , as a permanent resident in Oz..I hadn't achieved that, as I had been a permanent resident in Thailand for more than 5 years. That is why I was forced to spend at least a minimum of 2 years ,as a permanent resident in Oz..Before my pension became "portable ,and I was able to return to Thailand.And Centrelink are linked in to Immigrations computers,

I've been in Thailand for nearly a year, just had my 63rd birthday. I would be ok with a 2 years out of the last 5 in Australia (before 65) rule, by about 3 weeks. I had thought you had to be in Oz for the last 2 years before 65.

[sceadugenga]

Portability changes will only affect recent and future recipients of the DSP. They will face tougher work related requirements and restrictions.

To people worried about how their overseas travel will affect their application for the Old Age Pension I say, read the law, not the "rules".

The Social Security Act and all it's current amendments is easily available online.

Residency and DSP travellers is currently being tested in the Commonwealth government appeals tribunals, once again the law and the "rules" are showing to be in conflict.

[fishhooks]

Are any of you receiving the "Married Pension" i.e. one of a couple I think they call it?

The info I'm reading here is showing the "Age Pension" as $505.70, plus $44.00 as a "Supplement" totalling $549.70.

Is it this "Supplement" of $44.00 that you lose if living overseas?

[HPOS]

<br />To Old Croc, the rule  is 2 years out of the last 5 , as a permanent resident in Oz..I hadn't achieved that, as I had been a permanent resident in Thailand for more than 5 years. That is why I was forced to spend at least a minimum of 2 years ,as a permanent resident in Oz..Before my pension became "portable ,and I was able to return to Thailand.And Centrelink are linked in to Immigrations computers,<br />

<br /><br /><br />

This is where the "misinformation" comes into it! There is no rule that says anything about 2 years out of the last 5. I could leave tomorrow and cease to be an Australian resident. Please, don't make life decisions based on forums. Social security law, policy and procedures are all now available on the internet! Or you could come to Kenny's Aussie Bar in Karon! And no, there is not payment involved - the presenter is doing it as a community service!

[HPOS]

To Old Croc, the rule is 2 years out of the last 5 , as a permanent resident in Oz..I hadn't achieved that, as I had been a permanent resident in Thailand for more than 5 years. That is why I was forced to spend at least a minimum of 2 years ,as a permanent resident in Oz..Before my pension became "portable ,and I was able to return to Thailand.And Centrelink are linked in to Immigrations computers,

I've been in Thailand for nearly a year, just had my 63rd birthday. I would be ok with a 2 years out of the last 5 in Australia (before 65) rule, by about 3 weeks. I had thought you had to be in Oz for the last 2 years before 65.

There is no 2 years out of the last 5 years rule! It depends on whether you can still be considered an Australian resident or not as defined by social security law. Are you living in THailand or just there on an extended holiday? Did you sell up and move (in the same way as you would do if you moved from Melbourne to Sydney, or is your "stuff" such as assets, immediate family etc still in Australia waiting for you to come "home"? What were your intentions when you left for Thailand? Is it considered to be a holiday or a change in permanent location? All of this is taken into account. If, based on all of this, it is determined that you are living in Thailand, then, once you are 65, you would have to prove that you are back in Australia to live permanently in order to be granted, and then that pension would not be payable to you outside Australia until you had been a resident of Australia since return for 2 years.

I stress, there are no rules such as 2 years out of the last five - I could leave Australia tomorrow and be considered to have left permanently if all the indicators pointed to that! Section 7(3) of the Social Security Act 1991 states what must be taken into account when a Centrelink officer with appropriate delegation makes the determination as to whether a claimant is a resident or not, and whether past absences are to count as Australian residence.

[afarang]

As explained in previous posts, This is what happened to me .On the day my pension was finally approved by Hobart , I was in the Centrelink office in Melton, Hobart were on the phone ,and informed the Centre link Melton person , that due ti\o my extended period of residence in Thailand, that my pension would not be Portable ,until I had served 2 years as a permanent resident in OZ.,due to the fact that I had lived outside of Oz for a period of time longer than 5 years.In other words , you must have spent a minimum of 2 years out of the last 5 as a permanent resident of Oz., before you gain portability. I have explained many times ,most Centrelink staff do not know of this rule- It comes from Hobart. It was introduced during the time of Howard/costello ,being aimed at N.Z.ers and pacific Islanders ,who , apparently , were rorting the system. We,that is Long term residents of Thailand got caught in the net.As did long term residents of some other countries, who are not on the list of "approved" countries, like italy ,Greece ,Canada etc..who are not affected by this ruling at all

[afarang]

Er, mate ., I live in Southern Buriram< near the Cambodian border , I sure as all hell ain't going to Phuket, to listen to some geezer tell me , it never happened to me as there ain't no rule .I have done me time(2 years) ,I have portability now ,and I have been back in Thailand in my ancestral home ,In a small village ,that was near the centre of the action just recently. Quite noisy it was as well.Care to join us for Series 2 ,when it starts?

Edited June 3, 2011 by afarang

[HPOS]

Er, mate ., I live in Southern Buriram< near the Cambodian border , I sure as all hell ain't going to Phuket, to listen to some geezer tell me , it never happened to me as there ain't no rule .I have done me time(2 years) ,I have portability now ,and I have been back in Thailand in my ancestral home ,In a small village ,that was near the centre of the action just recently. Quite noisy it was as well.Care to join us for Series 2 ,when it starts?

Ah, might pass on that one thanks! The big thing in your case is, though, the fact that you had to remain in Australia for 2 years for the time you most recently arrived and were granted pension. You were an Australian resident, then stopped being an Australian resident, then again became an Australian resident and were granted payment. In that case, you can't take the payment out of the country at all for any reason until you have been resident of Australia again for a 2 year period. The time you weren't an Australian resident in your case was around 3 years? It could be five years or 20 years. The important bit is the 2 years back in the country as a resident at the time you claim your pension.

Haha! And I am glad you didn't say "old geezer"!!! I'm actually a relatively young geezerette!!! Glad it all worked out for you in the end though. Cheers!

Edited June 3, 2011 by HPOS

[harrry]

Haha! And I am glad you didn't say "old geezer"!!! I'm actually a relatively young geezerette!!! Glad it all worked out for you in the end though. Cheers!

And all you can find to do in Phucket is to talk to us old geezers on the forum. What has happened to the youth of today.

Seriously it is good someone from Centrelink finally participates in the forum. Have a good time there and do not hire a jet ski or pick a fight with a taxi driver.

[Old Croc]

To Old Croc, the rule is 2 years out of the last 5 , as a permanent resident in Oz..I hadn't achieved that, as I had been a permanent resident in Thailand for more than 5 years. That is why I was forced to spend at least a minimum of 2 years ,as a permanent resident in Oz..Before my pension became "portable ,and I was able to return to Thailand.And Centrelink are linked in to Immigrations computers,

I've been in Thailand for nearly a year, just had my 63rd birthday. I would be ok with a 2 years out of the last 5 in Australia (before 65) rule, by about 3 weeks. I had thought you had to be in Oz for the last 2 years before 65.

There is no 2 years out of the last 5 years rule! It depends on whether you can still be considered an Australian resident or not as defined by social security law. Are you living in THailand or just there on an extended holiday? Did you sell up and move (in the same way as you would do if you moved from Melbourne to Sydney, or is your "stuff" such as assets, immediate family etc still in Australia waiting for you to come "home"? What were your intentions when you left for Thailand? Is it considered to be a holiday or a change in permanent location? All of this is taken into account. If, based on all of this, it is determined that you are living in Thailand, then, once you are 65, you would have to prove that you are back in Australia to live permanently in order to be granted, and then that pension would not be payable to you outside Australia until you had been a resident of Australia since return for 2 years.

I stress, there are no rules such as 2 years out of the last five - I could leave Australia tomorrow and be considered to have left permanently if all the indicators pointed to that! Section 7(3) of the Social Security Act 1991 states what must be taken into account when a Centrelink officer with appropriate delegation makes the determination as to whether a claimant is a resident or not, and whether past absences are to count as Australian residence.

I have some questions:

Under "The Australian Citizenship Act" and "The Migration Act" an Australian Citizen has complete rights of residence in Australia and is entitled to the same rights and privileges as all other citizens.

So, how can your department interpret S.7(3) of your Act to exclude an Australian Citizen, in Australia, of the same rights as every other citizen??

How can your department decide a citizen has to complete a 2 year residential period in the same manner as a Chinese citz on a Temporary Entry Permit???

Has this been tested in Federal or High Court?

I'm still studying 7(3) (a crappy piece of legislation!), but so far I think your interpretations, in regards to Citizens, are incorrect and unconstitutional.