Australian Aged Pension

[fishhooks]

"Friend" who I think has got hold of a rumour says that soon Old Age Pension will only start from 70 years of age.

I know there has been talk about male retiring age being lifted to 70 and something like this may happen in the future, but I'm fairly sure nothing will change in the immediate future?

[fishhooks]

roskruge:

7,500 Baht is a hel_l of a variance, I know the A$ is good in Thailand at present, but don't think there would that much exchange difference over the last 12 months!

It sounds like a pretty good system they have for sending your funds to you, but do they give you a statement of just "what" is going on as the money leaves A$ and converts to THB.

I would still like to maintain my Comm Bank account and have CL deposit into that locally in Australia, then move by TT to Thailand when needed. All can be done at the Thai end on-line and you know each time you do it you are up for a A$22 fee.

[roskruge]

fishhooks Please also allow for increase in the pension that is adjusted twice a year in May and November in line with inflation. actual figure is

Tue 27th May 2008 = 32,658.87 Baht and Tue 3rd April 2007 = 25,352.05 Baht.

Sorry a little over 12 months. Also bear in mind the Aus Dollar has appreciated from 69 US cents to 96 US cents = Aus Dollar.

Copied these figures from Kasikorn savings book.

[roskruge]

fishhooks. No I am not informed by Centrelink of each 28 day payment or amount paid, unless there is a problem.

Now they are not writing to me lately I must have upset them. Warning reply promptly to their letters as they have no hesitation it cutting you off, even if you are overseas. But with me they have always made up the payment once I gave explanation.

My understanding is I get the full amount of pension via SWIFT as Centrelink make one payment to the bank to cover the charges of all of it Centrelink customers who receive payment via SWIFT. I believe this because one time I asked Centrelink my rate I then converted it to Thai Baht at current rate and it was pretty well spot on. But I will sent a letter to the Centrelink newspaper “Australian Pension News” they give detailed response to queries, and ask are there any deductions to me.

It is your option to have it sent to Aus Bank account, but I found charges have increased some much, with ANZ my bank it was just uneconomical. I am at this time contemplating closing it altogether. Best Regards

[fishhooks]

Good replies thanx.

[ozzydom]

I have been waiting for the authorisation form to have my pension paid to my Thai bank a/c but I think someone forgot so I will ring this morning and ask about the transfer system while I have them on phone.

[ozzydom]

Well according to C/L ,pensions are transferred through citi-bank to a Thai A/C .

They say it goes to Citi-Bank in AUD and is converted at the rate prevailing that day into baht and deposited in the Thai a/c, maybe Swift is a part of Citi-Bank.

They also say that there is no deduction for this service.

[Old Croc]

I transferred money by TT recently. It cost $A35. Western Union would be about twice that.

They asked if I wanted it converted to baht before sending, I refused because they use a different rate than you get at the other end.

But, in your circumstances, I think you are better off transferring from your oz bank through your visa or debit card despite the problems and fees. Maybe a change of bank could alleviate that $A4 fee.

Old Croc that seems strange the $35 I mean maybe it relates to the particular bank you are or were using.

Commonwealth Bank Australia $22 for TT max amount per netbank transaction $10000 (the $22 applies to any amount from $1 to $10000.

I had been withdrawing via the ATM and found the rates exhorbitant ANZ have a withdrwal fee plus a-%- of the amount withdrawn it was costing approx $22 per 20000 baht.

Last year when in Oz found best way at that time was to netbank it from ANZ to CBA and then TT each month or two or three for total cost $22.

If anyone has an easier or cheaper solution would love to hear from them.

Another interesting item CL dealing out of Tas - Actually DVA process all overseas pensions from Tas also but will only deposit in Aust last time I checked, if this has changed once again love to hear about it.

Telegraphic Transfers

Telegraphic transfers (T/T) are another method of transferring funds quickly to banks overseas.

Telegraphic Transfers – Outward

To overseas or domestic Banks in $20.00 per item

Australian or overseas currency plus cable costs of $15.00

The above is from the Bankwest site.

Your method definately seems cheaper Mijan24

[roskruge]

Thanks ozzydom. That's straight from the horses mouth, much as I thought.

[fishhooks]

ozzydom:

The only thing I can add, re C/L's explanation to you is that I have often been told re transfers from any source in Australia to Thailand, is that "never have the A$ to Baht conversion done on-shore in Australia"

Far better that it leaves Australia in Dollars and the conversion be done by your Thai Bank within the LOS.

A Comm Bank manager showed me the difference and it was quite amazing.

I did about 3 Comm transfers to Thailand during the last few months of last year and the resulting landed rate into SCB was around 31 Baht even putting the A$22 fee into the equation.

[Patong Bob]

Hello Gunga Din,

yes I was Pensions/families manager for Cl for the area covering the city and inner south-eastern. I retired in 2002 after spending 12 months accumuated sick leave in Patong.

[Mason45]

I don't turn 65 for another couple of years but when I do, I was under the impression that I could claim the Australian Aged Pension while continuing to reside in Thailand.

Having paid massive amounts in Australian income tax and every other tax they can think of for my entire working life, I figured I could look forward to living reasonably well on our Aged Pension in Thailand. Problem is, according to one source, I might not be able to claim the pension if I am not living in Australia. Another says it will cut-out after 26 weeks if I am away from Oz.

Tried to get info from the so called "Seniors" Link through the Aust. Gvt. website. No USE!!

Would greatly appreciate ANY and ALL info you can offer.

Cheers,

VOICEOVER.

The area that I find needs tidying up is as follows, I lived in Australia for 60 years (1945-2005) only leaving the country on overseas holidays which were 3 months at the most. I decided to live in Thailand in 2005, when I apply for the OAP at 65 yo I will have been out of Australia for 5 years. I normally go back to Australia for one month every year to sort out business and meet my family and friends. Our intentions are for my wife to get a spouse visa and we will share our time each year between Australia and Thailand. I still have my house, car, tax file number and health card etc but if I have to requalify to be an Australian resident then our plans appear to be up in the air. If I have to qualify what's the requalifying period.

[GungaDin]

Hello Gunga Din,

yes I was Pensions/families manager for Cl for the area covering the city and inner south-eastern. I retired in 2002 after spending 12 months accumuated sick leave in Patong.

Good to see that you're still on the board.

[fred2007]

Many thanks to Nignoy and everyone for their info. Much appreciated and I'll attempt to phone Centrelink in Australia on Monday. Fully expect to be "put on hold" and/or have to select from a dozen "options" while trying to get a Real Live Public Servant to talk with.

Will let you know the results as it looks as though there are many other Aussie Expats in a similar situation. My first posting on Thaivisa.com and I'm overwhelmed at the response.

heers,

Voiceover.

let us know how you get on and all the best

[ozzydom]

I believe it is two years residing in Oz immediately before you can claim.

[fishhooks]

I take it that means "Primarily Residing in Australia for 2 years prior"

I guess it could become an issue if you were to say be in Thailand for lengthy periods.

It would be interesting if there was a 'Rule of Thumb'!

[roskruge]

I had been on a Aus Disability Pension in Thailand for about 3 years when I reached retirement age (65). They wrote to me and said I could retain the Disability Pension or go onto the Age Pension. Without going back to Aus I simply swapped over to the age pension, while still in Thailand. As the money I would receive, would be the same.

For the last 18 months since being on the age pension, correspondents are a lot less, they are not checking up on me so much. I am permitted to stay out of Aus indefinitely and still get the pension.

It all depends on how long you were resident in Aus. As I have said before NOT how much TAX you did or did not pay. Due to long term unemployment and Psychological disabilities I paid very little tax in Aus.

[jackspratt]

I believe it is two years residing in Oz immediately before you can claim.

That is not my understanding.

As I read it, you need to be "resident" in Oz at the time you apply for the pension. The residency qualification involves a number of tests - which may include the length of time living in Oz. Once you have established that you are a resident, CL will then look at whether you qualify in terms of finances, assets, length of time in Oz, etc etc.

Once you get the pension, you can move from Oz, and continue to get it without any requirement to live in Oz thereafter.

If I am mistaken, I am happy to be corrected.

[Goinghomesoon]

From Centrelink's site:

www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/age_residence.htm

Residence requirements for Age Pension

To lodge an Age Pension claim you must be an Australian resident and in Australia on the day that you lodge your claim.

To qualify as an Australian resident you must be living in Australia as:

• an Australian citizen, or
  
• the holder of a permanent resident visa, or
  
• a New Zealand citizen who was in Australia on 26 February 2001, or for 12 months in the 2 years immediately before that date, or was assessed as "protected" before 26 February 2004.
  

To be paid Age Pension, you also need to meet the 10 year permanent residence requirements, unless:

• you are claiming under an International Social Security Agreement, or
  
• you are a refugee or former refugee, or
  
• you were getting MAA, PA, WA or Widow B pension immediately before turning Age Pension age, or
  
• you are a woman whose partner died while you were both Australian residents and you had 2 years residency immediately before claiming Age Pension.
  

[Goinghomesoon]

How Much Pension Is Paid While I Am Absent From Australia?

www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/ea3b9a1335df87bcca2569890008040e/0b3ab8709f584572ca2571c40078d197!OpenDocument

If a pension is paid under a social security agreement, the rate outside Australia is governed by that agreement. For most agreements this means a proportional pension rate applies immediately after departure.

If a pension is payable long-term while absent from Australia it will generally be paid at a proportional rate. A proportional rate is paid based on a pensioner's 'Australian working life residence'.

'Australian working life residence' is the period of residence from age 16 to Age Pension age. A person need not have worked or paid tax during this period. All a person needs to have done is to have been an Australian resident.

A full means tested pension can be paid if a person has Australian working life residence of 25 years (300 months). A proportional pension can be paid for lesser periods.

For example, the rate of pension for a man who lived in Australia for 20 years from age 50 to age 70 would be based on Australian working life residence of 15 years (180 months) from age 50 to age 65 (Age Pension age). He could be paid 181/300ths of a means tested pension outside Australia - the extra month is added to all calculations.

[ozzydom]

What do they mean by the 10 permanent residence requirement.?

A friend who has lived in Thailand for a few years, contacted CL International and according to him was told he needed to live back in Oz for two years before he could claim Aged Pension.

The same as roskruge ,I was already living Los and receiving DP when I reached 65,so it was just changed over.

[Mason45]

What do they mean by the 10 permanent residence requirement.?

A friend who has lived in Thailand for a few years, contacted CL International and according to him was told he needed to live back in Oz for two years before he could claim Aged Pension.

The same as roskruge ,I was already living Los and receiving DP when I reached 65,so it was just changed over.

Let's get real, most of us here are 65 yo plus, we have all spent at least 85% of our lives in Australia, In my case when I'm 65 yo I would've been living outside Australia about 7% of my time. What does it really matter, where we live 2 years prior to our appliction for the OAP, we could all move back to Australia for 184 days each year and they'd have to pay us all anyway. I thought Australia prided itself on freedom of choice, some us here have settled in Thailand just to enjoy our twilight years. We're no burden on the hospital system and other benfits enjoyed by retirees and I'm sure if we were a majority both of the major political parties in Australia wouldn't be able to take up our cause quick enough to score votes come election time. This issue borders on Australias discrimination against their own.

[Mason45]

The following two scenarios highlight the way expats are treated by the current and former Australian governments.

Scenario 1. A 55 yo person from a foreign country migrates to Australia and at 65yo applies to CL for the OAP. He passes all clauses and is given a part pension in a ratio to the years he's lived in Australia. Scenario 2. An Australian born person leaves Australia when he's 63yo for the first time, he returns to Oz at 65yo and applies to CL for the OAP and is informed that even though he passes all clauses he isn't elligible because he hasn't lived in Oz for 2 years prior to his application. So here's the wash up : A non Australian who's lived in Australia for 10 years has more rights than an Australian who's lived in Australia for 63 years....I've never heard so much poppycock in my life, the mind boggles. Maybe it's the old adage that Australia is the lucky country but for migrants only.

[wontok]

Re the requirement to reside in Australia prior to making a claim for age pension, the message below which I received from the Centrelink International Services office in Hobart on July 31st 2008 may be helpful.

wontok

---------------------------------------------------------------

Dear.......

Thank you for your enquiry about the consequences of departing from Australia on your possible Age pension claim.

In order to lodge a claim for Age pension, a person must be both an Australian resident and in Australia at the time of claim. The exception to this is if you happen to be in a country with whom Australian has a social security agreement that allows the claim to be lodged from that country. Currently the list of agreement countries are:

Austria, Belgium, Canada, Chile, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Malta, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland and the United States of America.

An agreement with Greece will take effect on 1 October 2008, and agreements with Japan and South Korea are expected to come into force in the next few years.

If you do go to live overseas, and are not living in an agreement country, you would need to return to Australia to live in order to claim. There is also a rule regarding returned former residents who claim pension, that prevents their pension being payable while overseas within two years of their most recent arrival in Australia. For example, if you returned on your 64th birthday, claimed at 65 and then went overseas (even on a temporary absence from Australia) your payment would stop. If you remained in Australia until at least your 66th birthday, you would have been residing in Australia for at least two years and be payable during an overseas absence.

Assuming that the former resident rule does not apply, the basic rate of Age pension is generally payable while the person is overseas. The rate of payment after 26 weeks absence is at a reduced rate if the person has less than 25 years residence in Australia between the ages of 16 and pension age. For example, someone who has 20 years residence would be paid at 80% of the basic rate. Regardless if whether a person is inside or outside Australia, the payment is means tested and subject to reduction due to excess income or assets (I would refer you to the website for details about how this works: www.centrelink.gov.au).

Note that decision about whether or not you are a resident of Australia will be made by the officer assessing your claim at the time of claim. Consideration will be made regarding your travel history, where you own real estate and other assets, family ties, the reasons for absence from Australia, your stated intentions and any other relevant information. Citizenship or permanent resident visa is required to prove legal resident status, but is only one part of determining if someone is a resident for Social Security act purposes. We cannot make this sort of decision in advance, because it relies heavily on circumstances.

Mark Dewis

Centrelink International Services

Customer Service Advisor

---------------------------------------

[sceadugenga]

Could be good news on the horizon for single pensioners.

The Australian

Pension review: singles lose out.

THE Rudd Government's review of the aged pension has found the rate for singles is low by international standards, bolstering the case for increased payments for millions of Australians in the next budget.

The Australian understands a discussion paper to be released today confirms the aged pension's singles rate of just $273.40 a week is lower than other OECD nations as a percentage of the couples rate.

By comparison, the combined couples rate in Australia is $456.80 a week.

Thousands of elderly Australians are forced to live on the reduced payments when their spouse dies, losing up to $180 a week.

Today's discussion paper will increase the pressure on the Government to consider calls by seniors groups for a $30-a-week lift in the singles payment, at a "conservative" estimated cost of $1 billion a year.

Wayne Swan has fuelled speculation that the Government will act on the aged pension, conceding pensioners are "doing it tough".

"There's something like $900 (per head) additional in this budget for pensioners and for seniors, but I accept that many of them are doing it reallytough," the Treasurer said in May.

"This review will address the adequacy of social welfare payments, including the age pension, so we get it right for older Australians who have helped build this nation."

Former Howard government minister Mal Brough last night backed the push to lift the singles rate, revealing he had fought for an increase as minister, but was ultimately rebuffed by cabinet. The review of the pension system, spearheaded by departmental secretary Jeff Harmer, was commissioned as part of the root-and-branch inquiry into taxation and welfare being conducted by Treasury secretary Ken Henry.

It also covers disability pension and carers payments.

[fishhooks]

The following, I believe, is the clause that one needs to be well aware of.

Particularly the part relating to "Travel History"

********************************************************

Note that decision about whether or not you are a resident of Australia will be made by the officer assessing your claim at the time of claim. Consideration will be made regarding your travel history, where you own real estate and other assets, family ties, the reasons for absence from Australia, your stated intentions and any other relevant information. Citizenship or permanent resident visa is required to prove legal resident status, but is only one part of determining if someone is a resident for Social Security act purposes. We cannot make this sort of decision in advance, because it relies heavily on circumstances.

Mark Dewis

Centrelink International Services

Customer Service Advisor

********************************************************

Thus, I imagine if you were to spend lengthy periods of holiday, or whatever you may call your absence from Australia in Thailand, prior to reaching 65, it may go against you, regardless of if you can display a working life of 25 years on-shore!

I worked full-time in Australia for 40 years at an average of 5.5 days a week shift work for the one boss. I guess though with 3 years to go until 65, I'd better not be off-shore for too long before applying?

[samuibeachcomber]

as i understand it from all the replies,if resident overseas which we are ,you have to return to OZ on day you turn 65 and apply for OAP,and because having been resident overseas for a while there is a 2 year waiting period until qualification sets in.Anyone living in thailand on a retirement visa is going to find it hard to meet this criteria cos if you do have to wait 2 years and reside back in australia that will cancel out the retirement visa.............damned if you do and damned if you dont!..........probably by then they will put back the retirment age to receive pension to 70 years old,any excuse not pay a pension.

[Artisi]

Just a quick overview following my experience.

1. If you are out of the country for too long a period you can be classified as a former resident and you then come under the 2 year waiting period, this was my initial position.

2. You can protest this decision in writing - based on the fact that you considered yourself to be a resident, you were on extended holidays overseas with trips back to Aust. to attend to property you may have owned, to pay or paid taxes on earnings, if you held health insurance, you intended to return to Aust. at some stage permanently, you don't own real estate o/seas, you don't have income from any source o/seas, you don't have permanent residency or citizenship etc etc.

3. It took 3 attempts for me, the final review was handled outside of the office where I always dealt - this is a normal proceedure and is reviewed by a senior case officer appointed to consider your application to be classed as a resident.

I am now on a pension in accordance with the asset / income ruling and can come and go as I please without restriction, other than the normal requirement for everyone on a pension - Centrelink must be informed if and when you leave the country and when you intend returning.

Keep protesting if you feel that you should be classed as a resident and not a former resident, but don't waste your time if you left for good and now feel they owe you a pension.

[bgood]

Thanks for the informativative post, Artisi.

I'm trying to be very careful with my reply as I don't want to appear to be flaming. Unfortunately, I find your final sentence a little annoying. In my case, I don't qualify currently under the assets/income test for a pension in Oz but I would like to think that should this situation change that Oz would provide a safty-net for me. I retired to Thailand at the age of 45 but left most of my assessets there and continued to pay high taxes. A few years ago I changed my status to non resident to reduce the tax. I continue to pay 10% flat on my income there. I assume I'd be classifed as a 'former resident'.

I don't remember ever making a decision to leave Oz 'for good' but I now think of Thailand as home. I received a university education at the Oz tax payers expense and I was supported by the Australian Council to estabilish my business in Oz. I'm very grateful for both. I spent many years working in Oz and paid a lot in tax. I hope that I never find myself in a situation where I need to ask but I do 'now feel they owe me a pension'(should I need it).

Please don't take this as an attack, Artisi. Because I choose to live in Thailand with my Thai wife and dual citizenship son, I don't see why I should be denied a safty-net income from Oz after all the tax I paid there.

[fishhooks]

I still feel all the discussion we are having begs the question as to how they make the judgment as to if you are a resident or not, in relation to time spent on the soil here just before retirement age.

If one is under say sixty and thinking or relying on the pension too much, you may be thinking too far ahead as changes in life situations are obviously going to change. Like the probability that Pension Age may change to 70 in the foreseeable future.

Not wishing to be self promoting on the matter, I think the main thrust of a thread like this is to help each other be aware of mistakes NOT to make in the few years leading up to 65.

I would reckon that there is many in this category in Thailand now and making visits back to Australia at times for various reasons.

I would further think that it would be very wise "if" able, to maintain ownership of property at home which you can verify is your principal place of living.

Which again raises the question, "Who can define or by means of a legal (C'Link?) definition decide if your time out of Australia prior to 65 is a holiday or not"

Even as far as extended "O" type Thai Visas go, it is not hard to get one of these on the basis of you are exploring the idea of living in Thailand for retirement.

Similarly if the Australian authorities here are saying that you have been out of Australia too much leading up to 65, you should be able to use the same reason as above, thus exploring retirement ideas.

How they can use this "Out of Australia" argument I would say could be defended and the main thrust of if you are entitled to a pension or not should centre on your years of service in the Australian workforce, which can easily be proved. Many approaching retirement age now will have probably done the compulsory 2 years National service as well.

If they can show that you have been out of Australia more than not for several years, I guess they will assume that you have settled in Thailand and 'probably' own assets and have accounts there as well, but I still don't see that this comes into the window of eligibility for a pension.

I may be wrong, but I imagine that there is no way that the Oz Government can verify just what you may have or not have in Thailand.

If you are in one of the country's with retrospective agreements it may be a different case.