Thai Boyfriend Stole My Money

[sbk]

Agreed. We can agree to disagree. I know quite a few Thai men who don't cheat on their wives, but you wouldn't believe me anyway so there is really no point in continuing a discussion when your mind is made up. So, we'll just agree to disagree that it is 100% of Thai men

Anyway, what happened to the OP? Perhaps she has been scared off

How do you know they are telling the truth? (I am not opining on whether you are right or wrong, just wondering why you are so certain).

For someone who is knowledgeable about local people and speaks the local language, as well as being married into a local family, it is a very small island. For someone who is not "in" in anyway, it is incomprehensible how connected everyone is to everyone else. Everyone knows everyone else to some extent and everyone knows everyone else's business. Also, as girlx has pointed out, it is culturally acceptable to cheat so there would be absolutely no reason to hide it. Therefore, it is pretty obvious to everyone local who has a mia noi, who cheats on their wife, who gambles, who is ill, who owes money, who gains weight, who dropped out of school, etc etc etc. You get the picture.

[fletchsmile]

Ok yes, fascinating but where is the proof that it is was & still is practiced by ALL thai men There is none. That is what people object to, not your opinion that it is true but your insistance that you are the only one who is right & everyone else, who live with trusted & repsected partners must be wrong about their character cause 100 years ago it was common for men to have multiple wives & by them being thai & male.

Really, you should try to think outside the box a bit & to be a bit more open minded, thai people are raised with a culteral history just as we are, just becuase american people in the past used to lynch black people for being black & keep slaves doesn't mean that you beleive these things to be right, does it?

OK yes, fascinating, but where is the proof that ALL thai people are raised with a culteral history, and that ALL of us are too... By extension of your thoughts there are no facts. Now that's an interesting thought...But wouldn't the fact in itself that there are no facts be a fact? Is absolute imperfection perfect? Is a tree still a tree when you look at it? Is the only real question in life suicide?

I think I might have preferred Blizzard's earlier post that it goes without saying people are generalising, and that there are exceptions. Most of us can see the patterns tho'. Often more so if you're detached from the picture and on the outside looking in.

Bottom line is that patterns and generalisiations outlined by girl x have a lot of substance to them even if they don't cover all eventualities.

[Boo]

think you are missing the point fletchsmile as well as trying to make some issue of something that isn't there.

Example: I never stated that all americans used to lynch black people, just that it used to be done by americans. see the difference.?

no one is disputing girlx opinion that it does/did & will happen (infidelity, keeping mia nois, visiting prossies) but she is trying to state it as fact for the whole population of thai men. It just isn't possible for that to be fact.

[sbk]

I personally dislike broad generalizations. I see their need but I am of the opinion that unless one wants to look foolish proclaiming ALL of something is some way it is better to say "Most" or "many". See, I am an American and I get that all the time. Americans do this, Americans do that blah blah blah. My response, "All 300 million of us are exactly the same. Wow".

I think that often many people who are fond of broad based generalizations prefer to put people in their little cubbyholes and then, instead of taking them at face value, take them for what they believe they are. But that is just my opinion.

(See how different it would sound if I wrote "People who make broad based generalizations prefer to put people in their little cubbyholes and etc etc. Sounds very accusatory and prejudiced, doesn't it?)

Regardless, it is clearly true that it is not a fact that all Thai men cheat, as girlx's article pointed out. So, to state that they all do, is, if we are to take her article at face value, incorrect.

a survey of both sexes by the Deemar Corporation in 1990, bore out that "80% of males and 74% of the females responded that it was 'natural for men to pursue sex at every opportunity."

Regardless, the OP's boyfriend did cheat. Question is, in a relationship where the partner is regularly missing, is it ok to cheat? Not in my opinion but, I suspect, especially considering some of the men's responses here, many seem to think so. Out of sight out of mind? While the cat's away the mice will play?

[fletchsmile]

Agreed. We can agree to disagree. I know quite a few Thai men who don't cheat on their wives, but you wouldn't believe me anyway so there is really no point in continuing a discussion when your mind is made up. So, we'll just agree to disagree that it is 100% of Thai men

Anyway, what happened to the OP? Perhaps she has been scared off

...

Perhaps I could rephrase: "You think you know some lifeforms who may be human men, who may perhaps be Thai, who you think you have no evidence to suggest that they cheat on the people they may or may not actually be living with, who may or may not actually be their wives"

As for the OP, am pretty sure it was a troll.

[sbk]

Hmm.. that is a rather trollish comment yourself there fletch.

[fletchsmile]

think you are missing the point fletchsmile as well as trying to make some issue of something that isn't there.

Example: I never stated that all americans used to lynch black people, just that it used to be done by americans. see the difference.?

no one is disputing girlx opinion that it does/did & will happen (infidelity, keeping mia nois, visiting prossies) but she is trying to state it as fact for the whole population of thai men. It just isn't possible for that to be fact.

Are you sure I'm missing the point?

The irony for me was in the phrase: "you should try to think outside the box a bit & to be a bit more open minded, thai people are raised with a culteral history just as we are"

I didn't read her post as saying all Thai men, just the ones she had met.

[Boo]

then you obviously have missed several of her claims then. Go back & re-read her posts & no I see no irony as I was responding to her claims that the reason all thai men cheat etc is because of their cultural past. Well afaik we all come from countries with one so by her logic all americans would not only condone but also practice lynching cause it was allowed in the past, all australians would go around shooting aborigines cause it was condoned in the past. Viking/skandos raping & pillaging etc etc etc.

I really hope you understand this time.

[beginner]

Agreed. We can agree to disagree. I know quite a few Thai men who don't cheat on their wives, but you wouldn't believe me anyway so there is really no point in continuing a discussion when your mind is made up. So, we'll just agree to disagree that it is 100% of Thai men

Anyway, what happened to the OP? Perhaps she has been scared off

How do you know they are telling the truth? (I am not opining on whether you are right or wrong, just wondering why you are so certain).

For someone who is knowledgeable about local people and speaks the local language, as well as being married into a local family, it is a very small island. For someone who is not "in" in anyway, it is incomprehensible how connected everyone is to everyone else. Everyone knows everyone else to some extent and everyone knows everyone else's business. Also, as girlx has pointed out, it is culturally acceptable to cheat so there would be absolutely no reason to hide it. Therefore, it is pretty obvious to everyone local who has a mia noi, who cheats on their wife, who gambles, who is ill, who owes money, who gains weight, who dropped out of school, etc etc etc. You get the picture.

Thats a good reply. Its quite persausive.

To paraphrase..to know whether or not a Thai is lying, live in a small community,speak the language, marry into a local family.

Yes OK it sounds like it ought to work even if it would be hard for me to actually follow the recipe.

But...yes there is a but.

Sticking to the issue of lying and ignoring whether or not and what percentage of men/women/ladyboys/whatever cheat on their partners.

I have found that Thais tend to support Thais. A hierarchy might go Children number one, then Mother. then family in general then Thais in general and then somewhere above the family pets...a farang spouse.

Cynical...maybe, but it ties in with my own observations and local reading.

Neil Hutchinson in his latest book 'A Fools Diary' relates how he accompanied a neighbour on his regular fishing days out and discovered that it was cover for fishing of a different kind. An elaborate false trail was created including changing motor bike taxis, doubling back and buying fresh fish from a distant supplier to take home. All done to stop the Thai-supports-Thai bush telegraph spilling the beans to his spouse.

Round here attempts to learn Thai to understand what is actually going on are counteracted by Thais then speaking in Lao or another dialect.

Thailand. LOS.

[sbk]

Like I said, if you are a local, it is very small place. Not very easy to hide stuff like that as there is bound to be someone who knows you catching you out. So, to be honest, most of them don't hide it. Most don't advertise that they are cheating, but neither do they hide it. A few advertise it.

[isabelle17]

Whew. I didn't think this would turn into such a big debate, haha.

For the record Damien, I guess I am somewhat young. I am 23, for the record. Its not that I find the word mastrubation necessarily bad, just in the context that you were using it. Why did you assume that I was young just because I was offended by that comment? Heck, I would be 43 and I would still be offended by it....but its okay. Its in the past now. Over and done with.

I think each and every one of us in this world (including Thai people) all have their OWN morals. So just because a lot of other Thai men might cheat, does not mean that every man is going to do that.

Girlx, well...if every single Thai guy you were with cheated on you..it might not be so much the THAI guys...but the TYPE of guys you choose? Im really sorry if I offend you in this way, as I really dont mean to. I am just saying that I believe if you're generally careful of who you decide to date, the less chance there will be of you getting cheated on.

I am the kind of person who really doesnt like it when people judge each other based off of things such as race, ethnicity, etc. It kind of gets my blood boiling when people do that...so...sorry if I just kind of lash out at people. This is an issue I feel really strongly about.

[madjbs]

Good post Isabelle, I guess now that you have revealed your age you will be labeled naive and clueless, don’t worry it is just because it’s probably the only way of attack some people can see to run you down and rubbish your opinion (happened many times before). It seems that some people are either bitter or just plain jealous that they haven’t been able to find a decent Thai partner. I wonder if this shows us the characteristics of the Thai population or the characteristics of the person in question, hmm I wonder.

[isabelle17]

Good post Isabelle, I guess now that you have revealed your age you will be labeled naive and clueless, don’t worry it is just because it’s probably the only way of attack some people can see to run you down and rubbish your opinion (happened many times before). It seems that some people are either bitter or just plain jealous that they haven’t been able to find a decent Thai partner. I wonder if this shows us the characteristics of the Thai population or the characteristics of the person in question, hmm I wonder.

Thanks!

Yeah. I figure that some people might use my age as something to use againt me. Thats okay. They can say what they want about my age and they can said I am naive, but since they really don't know me, it doesn't really matter what they say.

I am almost graduated from college-one more term to go!

Anyway, I think everyone is either lucky or unlucky when they get into any kind of relationship. They are either lucky to get with a person who has standards and morals, or they get with someone who doesn't. Either way, if someone is cheating on you, you're bound to find out eventually. And then you just have to move on without that person. Lesson learned (hopefully! Haha.)

I do think that some people end up so bitter about past relationships, they are so convinced that everyone out there is just a cheater and a liar. There are a lot of good people out there, in every country. Sometimes you just have to look hard for them.

[sbk]

I never considered myself lucky to have a good man as I wouldn't stay with a man who wasn't. I did consider myself lucky that I found him halfway round the world, however.

Age doesn't always have alot to do with wisdom btw. I know lots of foolish older people and sensible young ones and vice versa. All that matters is that you make the right choices for yourself and never mind what some people say. Its easy to make judgements of people we meet online without really knowing anything about that person, and many is the time that people have assumed things (incorrectly, I might add) about me and my relationship without knowing anything about me other than their own preconceived notions.

[girlx]

Go back & re-read her posts & no I see no irony as I was responding to her claims that the reason all thai men cheat etc is because of their cultural past.

no boo, you need to go back and re- read. i said it was my opinion that 100% of thai men are non-monogamous. it is however an established fact that monogamy is not a cultural priority for the majority of thai men and never has been. those are two different things. if you believe that some thai men do not cheat, up to you, you may be right. you are free to disagree. but i am stating that it goes against their traditions. & it is westerners who vilify those traditions, just like we do for instance, koreans eating dogs.

if every single Thai guy you were with cheated on you..it might not be so much the THAI guys...but the TYPE of guys you choose?

geez how many thai guys do you think i have been with? i will tell you- 2, ever. but i have known many many many thai guys; fishermen, policemen, resort owners, bar men, taxi drivers... whatever, wherever. and ALL of them i have met, regardless of the fact that they were married or had girlfriends (thai or farang) have cheated, according to them, according to their partner, according to vilage reports.... in a lot of cases i know this because they have tried to take me home.

of course most of their wives don't think they would ever cheat. and that all they are really doing down at the karaoke bar is singing.

[isabelle17]

Go back & re-read her posts & no I see no irony as I was responding to her claims that the reason all thai men cheat etc is because of their cultural past.

no boo, you need to go back and re- read. i said it was my opinion that 100% of thai men are non-monogamous. it is however an established fact that monogamy is not a cultural priority for the majority of thai men and never has been. those are two different things. if you believe that some thai men do not cheat, up to you, you may be right. you are free to disagree. but i am stating that it goes against their traditions. & it is westerners who vilify those traditions, just like we do for instance, koreans eating dogs.

if every single Thai guy you were with cheated on you..it might not be so much the THAI guys...but the TYPE of guys you choose?

geez how many thai guys do you think i have been with? i will tell you- 2, ever. but i have known many many many thai guys; fishermen, policemen, resort owners, bar men, taxi drivers... whatever, wherever. and ALL of them i have met, regardless of the fact that they were married or had girlfriends (thai or farang) have cheated, according to them, according to their partner, according to vilage reports.... in a lot of cases i know this because they have tried to take me home.

of course most of their wives don't think they would ever cheat. and that all they are really doing down at the karaoke bar is singing.

Well, I wasnt implying that you had been with a lot of guys. Sorry if you misunderstood that. I have been around mannnnnyyyyyy many many Thai guys as well. And like you, from all kinds of backgrounds. Rich, poor, etc. The majority of them didn't hit on me if they already had a girlfriend or a wife....

Although some did. But most of those men were strangers and I didnt know them well, so its not like I would want to "go with them" anyway. I do not know if those men had wives or girlfriends. I am sure some of them did, and some of them didn't.

[Momo8]

Should this be another thread entitled 'Cheating Thai Men'? I agree with Girlx that a majority of ASIAN men cheat not necessarily restricted to Thai men and this IS part of the culture.I've never been cheated on but just come to HK where a lot of men have a HK wife and a mainland wife and frequent massage parlours.Are massages with a happy ending a form of cheating?

This thread is off topic anyway,the OP's ex didn't cheat,he fell in love with another girl and paid his dues and made off with a little money,that's all.As I said before,if the guy wanted to cheat he would keep both girls at the SAME TIME unless my perception of cheating needs to be reassessed.How is that cheating that he left the OP for someone else? .......and what has that to do with masturbation,shooting Aboriginals and other remarks?

[Boo]

yeah don't worry isabelle, you have to use your own judgement as to whether some opinions are even worthy of consideration.

Keep doing what you do, you seem to have your head screwed on right

[blizzard]

theres more to karaoke bars than just singing?

[DamianMavis]

Just some insight into the Thai culture thing. My buddy has on a few occasions over the last 8 years in Thailand been caught cheating (different girlfriends he cheated on) and EVERY time, after they catch him red handed and are crying, asked him if HE was going to dump THEM! He tells them "no I thought you were going to do that to me".... they answer something along the lines of "no, just dont let my friends find out, dont embarass me". A falang woman would never put up with this because of cultural differences of course. Point is, there is a huge difference here in regards to male cheating, I wont say its accepted, but its not punished as severely as back home that is for sure. I would guess this is because it is so common and almost expected of male behaviour. Also, ever wonder why there is also a reputation for insanely jealous Thai girls too? I have friends whose wives/girlfriends are CONSTANTLY calling and messaging demanding to know where they are, to the point it is interfering with the mans work. They keep accusing the man of cheating (while he's in business meetings!). They seem to expect the man is going to cheat too. And no the man did NOTHING to warrant this attention, I've seen this many times.

Damian

[torrenova]

On the side issue of "cheating", I've lived in Japan, Hong Kong and Thailand in Asia and a number of european countries and whilst cheating does certainly go on in all the places I have lived, there is a distinct difference.

From my european experiences, I see that whilst some do set up a second partner on a permanent or semi permanent basis, the majority have liaisons in secret, either one offs or regular, in fright of what their partners (usually wives) would do if they were caught. In the asian countries I have lived in, whilst it may be hidden to a certain extent, there is far less of a one off nature and a larger percentage of them setting up a mia noi or local equivalent. Often the wives know about it, many condone it as long as the household is maintained and "face" is preserved. In Japan for instance, there is a well documented saying that onec the children are born, the mother is "mother not lover' and the husband can satisfy his needs elsewhere.

In attempting to analyse this I find that the status between the men and the women in asia is very different to europe. Many more women are "kept" as in they stay home and take care of the kids whilst the man goes out to work. The women have their "place" which is traditionally below that of the man. Contrast that in the western world where women have fought for decades for equal rights and established themselves as far more equal than their asian counterparts. I think if we were to look back at western history we would see more men using their social and economic power to have their cake and eat it whilst the women put up with the situation. In asia, it is still somewhat lnovel for the women to be on an equal footing and thus, she is far more reliant on the man which allows him greater freedom and her less power influence his fidelity.

[isabelle17]

Should this be another thread entitled 'Cheating Thai Men'? I agree with Girlx that a majority of ASIAN men cheat not necessarily restricted to Thai men and this IS part of the culture.I've never been cheated on but just come to HK where a lot of men have a HK wife and a mainland wife and frequent massage parlours.Are massages with a happy ending a form of cheating?

This thread is off topic anyway,the OP's ex didn't cheat,he fell in love with another girl and paid his dues and made off with a little money,that's all.As I said before,if the guy wanted to cheat he would keep both girls at the SAME TIME unless my perception of cheating needs to be reassessed.How is that cheating that he left the OP for someone else? .......and what has that to do with masturbation,shooting Aboriginals and other remarks?

Agreed. This has gone off topic...

[DamianMavis]

Should this be another thread entitled 'Cheating Thai Men'? I agree with Girlx that a majority of ASIAN men cheat not necessarily restricted to Thai men and this IS part of the culture.I've never been cheated on but just come to HK where a lot of men have a HK wife and a mainland wife and frequent massage parlours.Are massages with a happy ending a form of cheating?

This thread is off topic anyway,the OP's ex didn't cheat,he fell in love with another girl and paid his dues and made off with a little money,that's all.As I said before,if the guy wanted to cheat he would keep both girls at the SAME TIME unless my perception of cheating needs to be reassessed.How is that cheating that he left the OP for someone else? .......and what has that to do with masturbation,shooting Aboriginals and other remarks?

Agreed. This has gone off topic...

Well it cant be hlped considering the OP has deserted us....

Damian

[mssabai]

Just some insight into the Thai culture thing. My buddy has on a few occasions over the last 8 years in Thailand been caught cheating (different girlfriends he cheated on) and EVERY time, after they catch him red handed and are crying, asked him if HE was going to dump THEM! He tells them "no I thought you were going to do that to me".... they answer something along the lines of "no, just dont let my friends find out, dont embarass me". A falang woman would never put up with this because of cultural differences of course. Point is, there is a huge difference here in regards to male cheating, I wont say its accepted, but its not punished as severely as back home that is for sure. I would guess this is because it is so common and almost expected of male behaviour. Also, ever wonder why there is also a reputation for insanely jealous Thai girls too? I have friends whose wives/girlfriends are CONSTANTLY calling and messaging demanding to know where they are, to the point it is interfering with the mans work. They keep accusing the man of cheating (while he's in business meetings!). They seem to expect the man is going to cheat too. And no the man did NOTHING to warrant this attention, I've seen this many times.

Damian

I agree with you Damian - many people (men and women) here are more jealous. I have also noticed that in many cases relationships will 'overlap'. I witness much fewer relationships ending here without the appearance of a third party than when I was in the UK. When I wanted to break up with an ex, just because I thought there wasn't a future - many of my Thai friends were perplexed. He didn't beat me, we got along OK, he and I weren't cheating, he treated me well...what on earth was the problem?

I have read many of these threads and my opinions are of a similar line to yours and girlx's. I do feel though that those who attack girlx for her views are shooting themselves in the foot at times for not accepting at least some of what she says as it makes their own views look just as generalised and 'narrow minded' (if that's what girlx's views are). I do however think that it is also unfair to label every single Thai man as a cheater or potential cheater as I know that is untrue - unlike girlx I do know some good'uns.

But yes I see cheating happening a lot more here than I did at home and I see it in a lot of different spheres - Thai - farang relationships, Thai - Thai relationships, high-so, los-so - whatever. When it happened to me (don't worry the scum bag went already), the teachers in my school tutted, rolled their eyes and said "well that's Thai men for you". They all then came out with their own experiences of their boyfriends cheating on them, their friends etc and waxed lyrical about how bad Thai men's reputations were and why didn't I just stick to dating farang - because they would if they had the chance!

Not every Thai man cheats of course and I don't agree that you can tell anybody who is not with their boy/girl friend at this present time that they are bound to be cheating on them without knowing more about their situation, but I also don't agree with denying it's more obvious existence within Thai society as compared to western society. I also think on a sceptical note that Isabelle it does pay not to assume that your relationship will be exactly the same as it would if you were dating a fellow American. If it were that easy, so many farang/Thai relationships wouldn't break up. There are a lot of factors that are very different - the attitude towards infidelity being just one of them.

[mikethevigoman]

Good post Isabelle, I guess now that you have revealed your age you will be labeled naive and clueless, don’t worry it is just because it’s probably the only way of attack some people can see to run you down and rubbish your opinion (happened many times before). It seems that some people are either bitter or just plain jealous that they haven’t been able to find a decent Thai partner. I wonder if this shows us the characteristics of the Thai population or the characteristics of the person in question, hmm I wonder.

i agree, i think she is a wise head on young shoulders, i know people in there 60s that claim " they are all the same ', when the wise amongst us know its selection and choice,and a bit of luck that finds a good partner, ,

[mikethevigoman]

Just some insight into the Thai culture thing. My buddy has on a few occasions over the last 8 years in Thailand been caught cheating (different girlfriends he cheated on) and EVERY time, after they catch him red handed and are crying, asked him if HE was going to dump THEM! He tells them "no I thought you were going to do that to me".... they answer something along the lines of "no, just dont let my friends find out, dont embarass me". A falang woman would never put up with this because of cultural differences of course. Point is, there is a huge difference here in regards to male cheating, I wont say its accepted, but its not punished as severely as back home that is for sure. I would guess this is because it is so common and almost expected of male behaviour. Also, ever wonder why there is also a reputation for insanely jealous Thai girls too? I have friends whose wives/girlfriends are CONSTANTLY calling and messaging demanding to know where they are, to the point it is interfering with the mans work. They keep accusing the man of cheating (while he's in business meetings!). They seem to expect the man is going to cheat too. And no the man did NOTHING to warrant this attention, I've seen this many times.

Damian

Its usually beacause they may be spending their money on someone else,

[fletchsmile]

The irony for me was in the phrase: "you should try to think outside the box a bit & to be a bit more open minded, thai people are raised with a culteral history just as we are"

I didn't read her post as saying all Thai men, just the ones she had met.

then you obviously have missed several of her claims then. Go back & re-read her posts & no I see no irony as I was responding to her claims that the reason all thai men cheat etc is because of their cultural past. Well afaik we all come from countries with one so by her logic all americans would not only condone but also practice lynching cause it was allowed in the past, all australians would go around shooting aborigines cause it was condoned in the past. Viking/skandos raping & pillaging etc etc etc.

I really hope you understand this time.

sorry but it is not stereotyping, it is a fact of thai culture. thai men were polygamous up until 1935. prostitution is deeply ingrained into the culture at every level of society. the richer and more powerful men boost their status with "mia nois", minor wives. thai men believe it is their right to have more than one woman. that is a fact. there may be cases where a thai man is married to a farang woman, and they have discussed the faithfulness issue, and because it is important to her he makes an effort to stay true. but my belief is he just makes an effort to hide it better. EVERY single thai man i know has cheated on their girlfriend or wife. EVERY SINGLE ONE in the past 8+ years of travelling here. they do not believe it is wrong. thai women are not as accepting of this as they once were, but it has not changed things. this is different from england or america, etc. because in the west we are brought up with the idea that cheating is wrong and that we want to stay with one partner. so yes, i do believe it is valid to assume because he was thai, he was less likely to be faithful. and i know that some of the other women on here get angry at this assertion, but i believe they are in denial and i stand by it.

Boo,

I've cut and post girlx's original post. I think you may have misread it rather than myself. The world "all" is not used once. The word "every is used 3 times". 1 refers to "every level of society", the other 2 refer to "every thai man that I [girl x] know".

Hence she is not talking about all Thai men. She is generalizing, except when she talks about her own experience, when using all is valid. As someone reading objectively that was my view. I think you misinterpreted her thoughts and took them to an extreme, with more than a little irony. As mentioned I think girlx's views are harsh, but have a lot in them

In your comment:

"you should try to think outside the box a bit & to be a bit more open minded, thai people are raised with a culteral history just as we are"

I think this similarly generalises about Thai people, who are raised in many different ways, although there are some common themes. Some are raised overseas, some in Bangkok as a city, some of Chinese race, some up country etc etc

On the part of being raised with a cultural history as we are, I think that is actually where the key points of girlx lie. Yes both foreigners and thais have cultural histories but I think they are significantly different in key areas. eg some possible factors:

- Christianity or Buddhism (and distortions thereof)?

- Socrates or Confuscious (questionnable via Thai Chinese)?

- horizontal society vs vertical society?

- individual vs collective?

- meritocracy vs age/experience?

- single life vs reincarnation and multiple lives

- creative education and thinking/challenging vs rote learning and conform

- early 20th century monogamy vs 20th century polygamy?

- more even wealth distribution vs uneven wealth distribution?

- everyone is born equal vs everyone is not born equal (pi/nong, women vs men, sakdinah etc)?

- truth and substance vs face and appearance?

etc

The above factors are largely different in say UK/US vs Thailand. Given such differences over thousands of years, that's why I believe it is inaccurate to say Thais are raised as we are. There are some very wide differences. True all these factors will not impact all situations, but the ones in bold for example, are relevant here

Societies differ on this and other topics. That's what I found ironic:

"Thais" = generalisation (as you criticised girl x for) "are raised with a cultural history just as us" - yes they have their cultural history(ies) but in many cases are very different even among themselves, before comparing to "us" (=generalisation)

Back to the OP, I think these factors are important in evaluating the story.

I think they also contribute to why I would disagree with someone like Isaballe's assertion that infidelity is the same everywhere, and why cheating/ multiple partners at the same time appears more prevalent in Thailand vs some western countries.

Hence when you say Boo, that girlx cannot speak for all Thais, most people would accept that as true. Many people also see the patterns she highlights, even if you see different patterns.

Just some thoughts:

Edited January 21, 2008 by fletchsmile

[Boo]

I do beleive I have already stated that no one is disagreeing that it happens just disagree with her (girlx) claim of facts when they were actually opinion.

... i am simply stating that it has always been their culture to do so

fletchsmile you seem to be trying to make an issue of me saying "thais are raised with a culteral history" buit if you had read the posts by girlx I was just agreeing with her post above but adding that it was the same as westerners also having a culteral history but not everyone acting on it.

funny what different people read or chose to read, if you go & re-read the whole exchange the thing I disagreed with was:

thai men believe it is their right to have more than one woman. that is a fact.

Just for clarity, I see nowhere where in the above part of the post, which is what I first objected to, as being any kind of "fact" it was actually a generalisation according to her opinion.

I really have no interest in getting into this further cause you have taken one part of one post & chose to ignore several others where it wasn't made clear that it was an opinion rather than a fact. I would challenge anyone who made the same posts as girlx cause like you say, no thai person is raised the same with the same beleifs & parents so stands to reason that, although these things are known & do exist not everyone would do them. It really is that simple IMO. So lets get back on topic shall we.

[isabelle17]

Just some insight into the Thai culture thing. My buddy has on a few occasions over the last 8 years in Thailand been caught cheating (different girlfriends he cheated on) and EVERY time, after they catch him red handed and are crying, asked him if HE was going to dump THEM! He tells them "no I thought you were going to do that to me".... they answer something along the lines of "no, just dont let my friends find out, dont embarass me". A falang woman would never put up with this because of cultural differences of course. Point is, there is a huge difference here in regards to male cheating, I wont say its accepted, but its not punished as severely as back home that is for sure. I would guess this is because it is so common and almost expected of male behaviour. Also, ever wonder why there is also a reputation for insanely jealous Thai girls too? I have friends whose wives/girlfriends are CONSTANTLY calling and messaging demanding to know where they are, to the point it is interfering with the mans work. They keep accusing the man of cheating (while he's in business meetings!). They seem to expect the man is going to cheat too. And no the man did NOTHING to warrant this attention, I've seen this many times.

Damian

I agree with you Damian - many people (men and women) here are more jealous. I have also noticed that in many cases relationships will 'overlap'. I witness much fewer relationships ending here without the appearance of a third party than when I was in the UK. When I wanted to break up with an ex, just because I thought there wasn't a future - many of my Thai friends were perplexed. He didn't beat me, we got along OK, he and I weren't cheating, he treated me well...what on earth was the problem?

I have read many of these threads and my opinions are of a similar line to yours and girlx's. I do feel though that those who attack girlx for her views are shooting themselves in the foot at times for not accepting at least some of what she says as it makes their own views look just as generalised and 'narrow minded' (if that's what girlx's views are). I do however think that it is also unfair to label every single Thai man as a cheater or potential cheater as I know that is untrue - unlike girlx I do know some good'uns.

But yes I see cheating happening a lot more here than I did at home and I see it in a lot of different spheres - Thai - farang relationships, Thai - Thai relationships, high-so, los-so - whatever. When it happened to me (don't worry the scum bag went already), the teachers in my school tutted, rolled their eyes and said "well that's Thai men for you". They all then came out with their own experiences of their boyfriends cheating on them, their friends etc and waxed lyrical about how bad Thai men's reputations were and why didn't I just stick to dating farang - because they would if they had the chance!

Not every Thai man cheats of course and I don't agree that you can tell anybody who is not with their boy/girl friend at this present time that they are bound to be cheating on them without knowing more about their situation, but I also don't agree with denying it's more obvious existence within Thai society as compared to western society. I also think on a sceptical note that Isabelle it does pay not to assume that your relationship will be exactly the same as it would if you were dating a fellow American. If it were that easy, so many farang/Thai relationships wouldn't break up. There are a lot of factors that are very different - the attitude towards infidelity being just one of them.

My views on infidelity? Actually, I do know that there are some big differences in regards to infidelity, relationships, etc in Thailand and more western countries. I was just simply stating, as Boo stated, is that not everyone is raised the same way in once society. I mean in general, yes, but when it comes to obtaining morals, values, etc, it really depends on how they're parents raise them. (at least thats my personal opinion.)

On "It does pay not to assume that your relationship will be exactly the same as it would if you were dating a fellow american" comment. I thought this thread was about the OP and not about me....and "thanks" for the advice, but honestly, I will handle my own personal affairs myself...

I just dont see what the point is in arguing about this because its clear that some of us will refuse to change our views. I for one, wont as well. And to be clear: I am NOT saying that thai culture is not different from for example, american culture. I am not saying that they look at infidelity differently. I am saying that to assume all Thai men cheat is ridiculous. yes, some thai men do cheat, possibly a little more than in america/europe. But really, cheating is a..."personal" thing. I know that if my friends were cheating, I would not cheat just because they did. I know that even if I was raised in a culture where cheating is more acceptable, I still wouldnt accept if for myself. Culture does play a part in how you view the world, but it is not the total deciding factor.

[DamianMavis]

They cheat "a little" more eh? hokay.....

Damian