Pattaya Better Wih The Bars Closed

[mrbojangles]

Something that I cannot comprehend is why people who move into an area knowing what it is, do an "about face" & start complaining about "changing this" or "removing that" after they have made the decision to move there in the first place.

Soundman.

Yep, i agree. They fall in love with the place, buy a property, move in, settle down and want to change it all. Amazing really

[britmaveric]

Patters is fine as it is, only thing I'd change about it were the traffic and the state of beaches/water. Rest can stay the same as far as I am concerned. However I am smart enuf to know even those won't be full filled in my lifetime.

[deon]

Well when ever i go to Thailand as my gf lives there in bkk, we always go to Pattaya, infact we will be there in 2 weeks time .I just go there and chill on the beach ,and have a look about . I dont go in the bars as i dont drink. And in all the times i have been there i have never seen any trouble .

I dont understand why some folks are so down on the place , like i have said i dont drink and at and dont like being around drunks to much .But it does not stop me and my other half going there .

Edited February 28, 2008 by deon

[trotski]

Well reading this thread makes me smile, I have been visiting Pattaya for over 25 years and also have property there, sure it has changed over the years but it is what it is, although larger now than 25 years ago, it is still basically a poor beach resort with a few make weight tourist attractions, but with the upside of a vibrant nightlife. Take the nightlife away and with it the bars and ladies and what have you got, a very second rate tourist destination with nothing to attract tourists, or certainly nothing to attract tourists who are capable of looking at the internet and seeing what else is available.

Those who have chosen to live there and now want to change everything remind me of the worst sort of whining NIMBIES (not in my back yard) that we see in the UK. Some of these guys should be settled down in a nice retirement home with a cup of warm milk and a nice nursie to ensure that no one disturbs their afternoon naps. Or judging by some of these posts the Nursie is probably far too sexual for them so she would have to go.

Trotski

[PanzerJohn]

Well reading this thread makes me smile, I have been visiting Pattaya for over 25 years and also have property there, sure it has changed over the years but it is what it is, although larger now than 25 years ago, it is still basically a poor beach resort with a few make weight tourist attractions, but with the upside of a vibrant nightlife. Take the nightlife away and with it the bars and ladies and what have you got, a very second rate tourist destination with nothing to attract tourists, or certainly nothing to attract tourists who are capable of looking at the internet and seeing what else is available.

Those who have chosen to live there and now want to change everything remind me of the worst sort of whining NIMBIES (not in my back yard) that we see in the UK. Some of these guys should be settled down in a nice retirement home with a cup of warm milk and a nice nursie to ensure that no one disturbs their afternoon naps. Or judging by some of these posts the Nursie is probably far too sexual for them so she would have to go.

Trotski

Well said Trotski, and your first post as well.

[Spiny]

Well reading this thread makes me smile, I have been visiting Pattaya for over 25 years and also have property there, sure it has changed over the years but it is what it is, although larger now than 25 years ago, it is still basically a poor beach resort with a few make weight tourist attractions, but with the upside of a vibrant nightlife. Take the nightlife away and with it the bars and ladies and what have you got, a very second rate tourist destination with nothing to attract tourists, or certainly nothing to attract tourists who are capable of looking at the internet and seeing what else is available.

Personally, I would rather walk round Stockport on a rainy Sunday afternoon in winter with a hole in one shoe and a stone in the other than spend anytime anywhere close to Pattaya

[ClaytonSeymour]

Personally, I would rather walk round Stockport on a rainy Sunday afternoon in winter with a hole in one shoe and a stone in the other than spend anytime anywhere close to Pattaya. Hardly surprising coming from you - aren't you the chap who asked about converting to Islam?

[Spiny]

Personally, I would rather walk round Stockport on a rainy Sunday afternoon in winter with a hole in one shoe and a stone in the other than spend anytime anywhere close to Pattaya. Hardly surprising coming from you - aren't you the chap who asked about converting to Islam?

Assumptions erroneous, mate, I subscribe to views of Richard Dawkins. The Islam conversion query was made on behalf of another

[Ulysses G.]

Personally, I would rather walk round Stockport on a rainy Sunday afternoon in winter with a hole in one shoe and a stone in the other than spend anytime anywhere close to Pattaya

Don't worry, they say that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

[ClaytonSeymour]

Personally, I would rather walk round Stockport on a rainy Sunday afternoon in winter with a hole in one shoe and a stone in the other than spend anytime anywhere close to Pattaya. Hardly surprising coming from you - aren't you the chap who asked about converting to Islam?

Assumptions erroneous, mate, I subscribe to views of Richard Dawkins. The Islam conversion query was made on behalf of another. Well you never made that clear - you opened the gates of Hades and fled the heat. I wont bother posting the link to your thread, most of the replies were removed prior to the inevitable conclusion.

[thaihome]

Some one made the comparison to Las Vegas and what would happen if gambling was taken away there. I think it would be about the same effect as taking away the bars in Pattaya. It would hurt a large segment of the population, but just like in Las Vegas, there are many more that do not depend on tourists to make a living.

Pattaya is right in the center of the Chonburi/Rayong industrial area, sitting between Rayong (actually Maptaphut) and Sri Racha it is perfectly situated for the hundreds of thousands of Thais and thousands of expat that work in either place. People that only know about a few square blocks near Beach Rd have no idea that this other Pattaya even exists, just like someone that only knows about a few miles of hiway in Las Vegas.

So yeah, close the bars and Beach Rd, Second Rd, and Walking St would close down for a while then reopen with a completely new focus, but it would be a lot less money.

But for the Thais and expats working in the area, the change would not impact them much, other then a lot of the farang restaurants would disappear.

TH

Edited March 1, 2008 by Pattaya_Fox

[JSixpack]

Is it just me who thinks the past couple of nights have been refreshingly quiet and relaxed, with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town.

Very true. But most of us, including myself, do like the bars, except for the noise. Now, other cities, in developed countries, have lots of bars yet remain "quiet and relaxed."

What the quiet break proves is how much better Pattaya could be with some enforced anti-noise and disorderly conduct laws. Also, the transportation situation, a source of constant complaint around here, needs vast improvement. Fix these three major problems and Pattaya would be pleasant but still interesting and fun place in which civilized people might enjoy residing.

But let's not hold our breath waiting for THOSE changes. Culture and corruption will not permit them.

[happyaussie]

Some of you guys amaze me. Close the bars and get rid of the girls. How stupid is that. What are you going to tell me you moved to Pattaya for the palm fringed idylic beaches, stunning architecture or it's natural beauty. NO, I would pretty well guarantee that 99% of men who live in Pattaya came here for one reason only, SEX. Pattaya has it's faults, but where doesn't. I for one think it is moving in a positive direction. And the bars and girls are fantastic. Yes, I'd prefer not to have the loud mouthed holligans. But unfortunately they come with the territory.

[Jingthing]

I reject that most expats come here for sex only. Partly, yes, of course. It is not as if men and women don't seek sex anywhere they go. It is a package and the availability of sex is part of the package. Not a whole lot different than people who move to Miami Beach, Acapulco, Rio, Phuket, etc.

Edited February 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[patsfangr]

I reject that most expats come here for sex only. Partly, yes, of course. It is not as if men and women don't seek sex anywhere they go. It is a package and the availability of sex is part of the package. Not a whole lot different than people who move to Miami Beach, Acapulco, Rio, Phuket, etc.

And you certainly should reject it, Jingthing. Yes, there are expats who come here for sex only. However, I think it's reasonable to assume that most of them (though certainly not all) are single men. There are a great many expat families living here, some of which are entirely falang. The same is true of the tourists, although, from my observation, a much larger percentage of that group is here for the beer bar atmosphere, and the sex.

As I said in an earlier post, the demographics of the expat population in Pattaya has changed significantly from the early days. It's foolish not to recognize that both elements (sex seekers and home bodies) exists in large numbers now.

Someone earlier noted that he'd be more than happy to leave the beer bar and sex supermarket alone, for those who want it. So would I. IMO, the issues of infrastructure improvement and preservation of the "nightlife" are separate. My priority is most heavily on the former. I live here. I want well maintained streets, effective law enforcement, and consistent water, power and communications services. I couldn't care less if the entire downtown area west of Third Road was filled with naked people drowning in a sea of beer suds. I'm neither a preacher nor a prude. I'd just like to see the every day living conditions improved for those of us who have moved past the "party" life.

Would Pattaya be better with the bars closed? For whom? It would certainly be better for the expats and tourists who are not here seeking sex, drugs, booze, and ear-splitting "music". But it would be abandoned by those who are seeking that type of entertainment. So there's no one answer, and no "right" answer to that question. We all have the right to live our lives as we choose, with the sole restriction that we do not have the right to bring harm to others while doing so. Barring violence, I say, you do your thing, and I'll do mine.

Fair enough?

[Ulysses G.]

I reject that most expats come here for sex only. Partly, yes, of course. It is not as if men and women don't seek sex anywhere they go. It is a package and the availability of sex is part of the package. Not a whole lot different than people who move to Miami Beach, Acapulco, Rio, Phuket, etc.

And you certainly should reject it, Jingthing. Yes, there are expats who come here for sex only. However, I think it's reasonable to assume that most of them (though certainly not all) are single men. There are a great many expat families living here, some of which are entirely falang.

Most are here so that the husband/father can fool around if he feels the need. I mean, come on, who moves their family to Pattaya?

[APMann]

I reject that most expats come here for sex only. Partly, yes, of course. It is not as if men and women don't seek sex anywhere they go. It is a package and the availability of sex is part of the package. Not a whole lot different than people who move to Miami Beach, Acapulco, Rio, Phuket, etc.

And you certainly should reject it, Jingthing. Yes, there are expats who come here for sex only. However, I think it's reasonable to assume that most of them (though certainly not all) are single men. There are a great many expat families living here, some of which are entirely falang.

Most are here so that the husband/father can fool around if he feels the need. I mean, come on, who moves their family to Pattaya?

You can fool around anywhere in the world if you feel like it. You don't move lock stock and smoking codpiece to Pattaya just so you can get some action now and again.

A poster earlier said he thought it was NIMBY to wish for a more cultured, civilised, diversified Pattaya; one not so reliant on the sex industry. In some peoples' fear of the loss of their cheap "fun", and in their rush to defend the sleazy state of the city, they overlook that NOBODY has said close it down entirely, just reduce and relocate it.

[ClaytonSeymour]

I reject that most expats come here for sex only. Partly, yes, of course. It is not as if men and women don't seek sex anywhere they go. It is a package and the availability of sex is part of the package. Not a whole lot different than people who move to Miami Beach, Acapulco, Rio, Phuket, etc.

And you certainly should reject it, Jingthing. Yes, there are expats who come here for sex only. However, I think it's reasonable to assume that most of them (though certainly not all) are single men. There are a great many expat families living here, some of which are entirely falang.

Most are here so that the husband/father can fool around if he feels the need. I mean, come on, who moves their family to Pattaya?

In some cases no doubt about it, I suspect in others the attraction is the large expat community & the ease of having a life as close as possible to the one back home. It's a similar pattern in many countries i.e. Spain. This type of expat seems determined to recreate the world they left behind with a few extras - sea, sand, sun, cost of living etc. Pattaya affords them a good opportunity to do this.

Back here in the UK, I've come across a sad fact regarding a large percentage of the wife's pals husbands - apart from a few days in Isaan they've never been anywhere in Thailand except Pattaya - some have never even been to Bangkok, apart from Don Muang or Suvarnabhumi that is. These annual/bi-annual pilgrimages continue year after year with no desire to go anywhere else in Thailand.

[happyaussie]

patsfangr you put your point across well and I agree. But I still stand by the fact that 99% of men living here in Pattaya originally came here with one thing on mind. Thai women (or for others Thai men). Yes, a lot have met women (or men) and settled down, and yes some have reloacted with their farang wives (or husbands). Why anyone would do this baffles me. And to make comparisons to other countries also doesn't work. Everyone knows what made Pattaya great. Just because some people have found their love and settled into a quieter life doesn't mean others should be denied their chance to achieve the same.

So please stop pretending to be so pious. You enjoy your journey and let others enjoy theirs.

[Ulysses G.]

You can fool around anywhere in the world if you feel like it. You don't move lock stock and smoking codpiece to Pattaya just so you can get some action now and again.

I've got news for you. 99.9% of us do.

[happyaussie]

patsfangr you put your point across well and I agree. But I still stand by the fact that 99% of men living here in Pattaya originally came here with one thing on mind. Thai women (or for others Thai men). Yes, a lot have met women (or men) and settled down, and yes some have reloacted with their farang wives (or husbands). Why anyone would do this baffles me. And to make comparisons to other countries also doesn't work. Everyone knows what made Pattaya great. Just because some people have found their love and settled into a quieter life doesn't mean others should be denied their chance to achieve the same.

So please stop pretending to be so pious. You enjoy your journey and let others enjoy theirs.

patsfangr my comment about being pious was not directed to you it was for the author of this thread.

[edwardandtubs]

Anyone who lives in Pattaya and gets all uptight about "sexual exploitation" can't be very intelligent. Why come to live in the world's biggest red light district if you feel that way? Why come to live in a place with one of (if not the) highest concentration of bars in the world if you find drunken tourists so distressing? Anywhere else in Thailand would be a more suitable location. If you really can't find somewhere else to live in Thailand that more closely matches your tastes then you reveal just how clueless you are.

[APMann]

patsfangr you put your point across well and I agree. But I still stand by the fact that 99% of men living here in Pattaya originally came here with one thing on mind. Thai women (or for others Thai men). Yes, a lot have met women (or men) and settled down, and yes some have reloacted with their farang wives (or husbands). Why anyone would do this baffles me. And to make comparisons to other countries also doesn't work. Everyone knows what made Pattaya great. Just because some people have found their love and settled into a quieter life doesn't mean others should be denied their chance to achieve the same.

So please stop pretending to be so pious. You enjoy your journey and let others enjoy theirs.

patsfangr my comment about being pious was not directed to you it was for the author of this thread.

And my comment to you is how do you know what I am like? How do you know patsfangr ISN'T pious? That's the first time I have ever been called pious in my life. It sounds great, so thanks.

And just to repeat for anyone who cannot read properly - nobody is saying close all the bars. Just relocate and reduce them and broaden the economic base of the city.

And why are so many people so negative on Thailand and Pattaya scrubbing up their image and moving into the 21 st century. Don't all Thais deserve a better global opinion of their country than as a giant bordello, and don't you think Pattaya's Thais could benefit from better quality businesses and a broader economy to give them real careers and jobs instead of investors buying beer bars and go gos?

Again, where's the harm in that?

Some posters sound like they just don't care about Thailand really, nor Thais. They just want to screw them and leave (economically and physically).

[patsfangr]

You can fool around anywhere in the world if you feel like it. You don't move lock stock and smoking codpiece to Pattaya just so you can get some action now and again.

I've got news for you. 99.9% of us do.

Now that one rates at the very top of the "dumb statement" ladder. I'd have to ask, Ulysses, if you have ever left the downtown area to wander into the so-called "darkside"; which is generously dotted with an ever growing number of middle to high end housing developments?

Fair enough for you to say that "99.9% of us do", as long as you quality "us" as the people that you mix with. I have no factual information regarding the percentage of expat men who are here for sex and bars, versus the percentage who are here to benefit from the low cost of housing, and ensuing low cost of living. However, I'm as certain that there is a much more even split than 99.9 to .1.

It would be really interesting to see an anonymous poll of expates, asking the question: Have you ever had sex with a prostitute since moving to Pattaya? Although, I rather doubt that "big brother" would allow such a poll here.

[edwardandtubs]

I have no factual information regarding the percentage of expat men who are here for sex and bars, versus the percentage who are here to benefit from the low cost of housing, and ensuing low cost of living. However, I'm as certain that there is a much more even split than 99.9 to .1.

You'll get a much lower cost of living in most areas of Thailand outside Pattaya. I think only a really clueless person would choose to live in Pattaya if he had no interest in the nightlife. The nightlife is what distinguishes Pattaya from all those other cheaper locations.

[Jingthing]

I have no factual information regarding the percentage of expat men who are here for sex and bars, versus the percentage who are here to benefit from the low cost of housing, and ensuing low cost of living. However, I'm as certain that there is a much more even split than 99.9 to .1.

You'll get a much lower cost of living in most areas of Thailand outside Pattaya. I think only a really clueless person would choose to live in Pattaya if he had no interest in the nightlife. The nightlife is what distinguishes Pattaya from all those other cheaper locations.

This is the same old black and white thinking that so offends me.

Here are the reasons to move to Pattaya, for different people, different factors will have more importance:

On the sea

Striking distance of nicer beaches and islands

convenient to airport

convenient to Bangkok

cost of living reasonable compared to Bangkok and Phuket

low cost bus service (baht buses), no need for a car for many expats

access to decent albeit expensive health care, easy to get to Bangkok if you need better

excellent choice of restaurants of many nationalities at many price points, food scene already rivals Bangkok

shopping decent and recently getting much better, within a year will rival Bangkok

nightlife, live music

nightlife, charming beer bars, gay straight and katoey

nightlife go go as above

legit and non legit massage on offer everywhere

I am sure others could add to the list, but my point is, Pattaya is a package. It is unique in Thailand and given all the wonderful benefits here, it wouldn't surprise me at all if some people who have no great interest in the night life choose to move here. Living here is different than being a tourist. I am very happy with my choice and I am very happy that the nightlife is here when I want it, which is not very often, it would be a much less rich experience living here if all the choices were not available. The idea that we need to wipe out the nightlife is absurd. What we need is improvement and even more choices all around, including nightlife. Great cities and great urban beach resorts have IT ALL. Thats what I want, EVERYTHING.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Jingthing

[edwardandtubs]

Jingthing, take away the nightlife and there are hundreds of other places that have all the other stuff you mention. Get yourself away from the Sukhumvit ghetto and you'll find Bangkok is much cheaper. Within an hour's bus ride from Pattaya there's Sri Racha, Bang Saen on the way to Bangkok or Rayong in the opposite direction. Be a bit more adventurous and you'll find Koh Chang, Trat, Samui, Hua Hin all have what you list at a similar or lower cost of living. I agree that Pattaya is a package but the nightlife is central to the package. Anyone who objects to Pattaya's nightlife but chooses to live here is a fool.

[Ulysses G.]

You can fool around anywhere in the world if you feel like it. You don't move lock stock and smoking codpiece to Pattaya just so you can get some action now and again.

I've got news for you. 99.9% of us do.

Now that one rates at the very top of the "dumb statement" ladder.

Anyone who contradicts such an obvious truth is sitting on top of the "dumb statement" ladder wearing a giant pink dunce cap!

[Ulysses G.]

It would be really interesting to see an anonymous poll of expates, asking the question: Have you ever had sex with a prostitute since moving to Pattaya? Although, I rather doubt that "big brother" would allow such a poll here.

Have you ever had sex with a Thai that you gave any kind of financial "help" to would be better. Many "handsomemen" have convinced themselves that what they are doing here is just normal dating.

[Jingthing]

Jingthing, take away the nightlife and there are hundreds of other places that have all the other stuff you mention. Get yourself away from the Sukhumvit ghetto and you'll find Bangkok is much cheaper. Within an hour's bus ride from Pattaya there's Sri Racha, Bang Saen on the way to Bangkok or Rayong in the opposite direction. Be a bit more adventurous and you'll find Koh Chang, Trat, Samui, Hua Hin all have what you list at a similar or lower cost of living. I agree that Pattaya is a package but the nightlife is central to the package. Anyone who objects to Pattaya's nightlife but chooses to live here is a fool.

I have been all around Thailand, and Pattaya is unique in the package it offers, and it is getting better, year after year as it grows into a major city. I like cities, not everyone does. I agree if you object to nightlife and visible prostitution, this ain't your place, and you should not move here.