People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[sriracha john]

Somchai the Fix-It Man.... can't fix this one...

Indeed he couldn't... Kung <deleted> Karun has been found GUILTY

Karun guilty of brawl in Parliament; House to deliberate on punishment

People Power Party MP Karun Hosakul has been found guilty of physical and verbal attacks against Democrat MP Sompong Kiartpaibul inside Parliament on April 2, the House fact-finding report said in its conclusion Friday.

MP Vichet Panvichartkul said the report will be forwarded for the House deliberation on punishment.

"The fact-finding panel reached an unanimous decision to conclude that Karun assualted Somkiart and that Karun had used rude langauge," Vichet said.

Karun refused to comment, saying he had not had a chance to study the report.

- The Nation (today)

[sriracha john]

Panel finds Karun did assault Democrat MP

A fact-finding panel yesterday concluded that PPP MP Karun Hosakul physically assaulted Democrat MP Somkiat Pongpaibul in parliament on April 2. Democrat MP for Krabi, Pichet Phanvichartkul, who represents the Democrats on the panel, said the decision was based on both parties' statements, eyewitness accounts, and other evidence. The evidence also showed Karun insulted Mr Somkiat verbally and later argued with Democrat MP for Bangkok, Kowit Tharana, who tried to calm him down. The panel was unanimous in its decision, he said. All members signed to certify their findings, except PPP MP for Samut Prakan Songkram Kitlertpairote, he added.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/09May2008_news09.php

[sriracha john]

Heat on Karun as house panel finds him guilty

People Power Party MP Karun Hosakul was yesterday asked to honour his promise to resign after he was found guilty of physical and verbal attacks against Democrat MP Somkiart Pongpaiboon inside Parliament on April 2.

A fact-finding report reached a unanimous decision concluding that Karun had assaulted Somkiart and used rude language, MP Vichet Panvichartkul said yesterday.

The report will be forwarded for the House's deliberation on punishment.

Karun could not be reached for comment yesterday.

Meanwhile, Democrat Party Secretary-General Suthep Thuagsuban said he wondered if Karun would keep his promise to quit his MP post.

"The Democrats will not demand his resignation, but he must be accountable for what he said,'' Suthep.

He questioned whether Karun would be harshly punished since the PPP has the majority vote.

In a related development, PPP's Bangkok MP Wattana Sengpairoh said his group would not take action against Karun and it depended on the House to decide his fate.

Asked if he thought Karun should honour his words by resigning, Wattana said he did not want Karun to use emotions in making this decision.

"This quarrel started because one party was challenged to meet outside the meeting room and this means they both premeditatedly entered into a fight. If Karun has to resign, the rival MP must also resign,'' he said.

- The Nation

=============================================================================

There's much about law that Khun Wattana is obviously very ignorant of.....

There was only one person that "entered into a fight".... and that was the one that was subsequently found guilty...

[marshbags]

Not sure which thread to submit this to but here seems a good place......................

Breaking news, The Nation, May 11, 2008 : Last updated 03:46 pm

Air Force chief warns Jakrapob not to restrict media rights

Air Force CommanderinChief ACM Chalit Phukphasuk Sunday suggested that PM's Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair should not try to control the media.

Chalit made the suggested when asked by reporters to comment on Jakrapob's threat against stateowned broadcast media.

On Saturday, Jakrapob, who supervises the Public Relations Department, threatened to take disciplinary actions against state broadcast media, especially those under the control of the Public Relations Department, if they support coup either directly or indirectly.

Chalit said no one should restrict the state media's press freedom.

The Nation

Unquote.

Apologies if it,s posted elsewhere.

Do you get the feeling that there is more going on as per similar to the last timely intervention.

marshbags

[sriracha john]

Panel finds Karun did assault Democrat MP

A fact-finding panel yesterday concluded that PPP MP Karun Hosakul physically assaulted Democrat MP Somkiat Pongpaibul in parliament on April 2. Democrat MP for Krabi, Pichet Phanvichartkul, who represents the Democrats on the panel, said the decision was based on both parties' statements, eyewitness accounts, and other evidence. The evidence also showed Karun insulted Mr Somkiat verbally and later argued with Democrat MP for Bangkok, Kowit Tharana, who tried to calm him down. The panel was unanimous in its decision, he said. All members signed to certify their findings, except PPP MP for Samut Prakan Songkram Kitlertpairote, he added.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/09May2008_news09.php

Apparently, the above is not enough to satisfy the PPP....

Probe into clash 'lacked evidence'

The People Power Party will wait for police to finish their investigation of the row between its MP Karun Hosakul and Democrat MP Somkiart Pongpaiboon. The party does not believe the parliamentary panel has hard enough proof for a conviction.

"I haven't acknowledged the [panel's] investigation report. But it lacked clear evidence. The committee just found information indicating it saw reason to believe Karun was guilty. We'd better wait for the police's investigation results," Suwat Wansirikul, head of the PPP's Bangkok MPs, said yesterday.

The PPP does not fear public sentiment or blame that it is protecting Karun, he said. *no need for this government to fear anything from the public... they're running the show*

The party held a meeting to inform its MPs about its executives' decision to nominate government chief whip Chai Chidchob as the new House speaker to replace Yongyuth Tiyapairat, who resigned.

Karun was at the meeting but declined to make any comment. Karun faces charges of kicking and throwing a punch at Somkiart early last month.

Parliament's special committee probing the case released its conclusion on Friday that Karun did attack Somkiart as charged.

- The Nation (today)

[younghusband]

Not sure which thread to submit this to but here seems a good place......................

Breaking news, The Nation, May 11, 2008 : Last updated 03:46 pm

Air Force chief warns Jakrapob not to restrict media rights

Air Force CommanderinChief ACM Chalit Phukphasuk Sunday suggested that PM's Office Minister Jakrapob Penkair should not try to control the media.

Chalit made the suggested when asked by reporters to comment on Jakrapob's threat against stateowned broadcast media.

On Saturday, Jakrapob, who supervises the Public Relations Department, threatened to take disciplinary actions against state broadcast media, especially those under the control of the Public Relations Department, if they support coup either directly or indirectly.

Chalit said no one should restrict the state media's press freedom.

The Nation

Unquote.

Apologies if it,s posted elsewhere.

Do you get the feeling that there is more going on as per similar to the last timely intervention.

marshbags

First of all a coup is a criminal act which in many countries would earn the coup makers a long period of imprisonment or possibly even the gallows.In Thailand political interests hostile to the coup were given a popular mandate in a generally free and fair election.If elements state broadcast media, under Jakrapob's supervision in his Public Relations Department capacity, openly support criminal acts such as a coup they should be silenced and dismissed from office.Finally what earthly business is any of this of the Airforce C-in-C.As a coup leader he is lucky to have kept his job.He should keep his mouth shut and ponder on the shame he has brought to his uniform.

[Plus]

He was answering questions.

If you remember Samak was the first one with coup rumors, not the media.

There's no reason for Jakrapob to come out with a big stick and threaten journalists with disciplinary actions over something as vougue as "indirect support of the coup".

The evil junta allowed far more freedom than this democratic government.

[younghusband]

He was answering questions.

If you remember Samak was the first one with coup rumors, not the media.

There's no reason for Jakrapob to come out with a big stick and threaten journalists with disciplinary actions over something as vougue as "indirect support of the coup".

The evil junta allowed far more freedom than this democratic government.

He should have made no comment on matters which are none of his business.

If the charges of supporting the coup are unsubstantiated then I agree Jakrapob should hold fire.Just to be clear I am talking about overt declarations of support now.There shouldn't be a witch hunt for what went on during the period of the coup.

Don't thi nk there's much evidence for your last statement.

[sriracha john]

*double post

Edited May 12, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Mr Jakrapob, who supervises the PRD, said he would take disciplinary action against PRD staff who report any news or information supporting the coup.

Democrat spokesman Ong-art Klampaibul said Mr Jakrapob was wrong to believe that members of the media initiate coup rumours. In fact, he said, it was Mr Samak who first mentioned the possibility of a coup.

- Bangkok Post

====================================

Can we expect to see Jakrapob "disciplining" Samak in some sort of Japanese porn rope bondage scene?

Edited May 12, 2008 by sriracha john

[Plus]

He should have made no comment on matters which are none of his business.

Government's interefering with the media is everyone's business, regardless of election results.

Few months after the coup practically all restrictions on the media had been lifted. Thaksin supporters had nearly full freedom to say or do whatever they wanted, including mob attacks on Prem's residence.

Now even a comparative analysis of a political situation last year and under PPP is punishable if there's even an indirect suggestion that last year wasn't too bad.

Something like "Surayud's ministers resigned over confict of interests issues even if they were legally right, but the current health minister is still staying on" is deemed illegal by Jakrapob's criteria.

[younghusband]

He should have made no comment on matters which are none of his business.

Government's interefering with the media is everyone's business, regardless of election results.

Few months after the coup practically all restrictions on the media had been lifted. Thaksin supporters had nearly full freedom to say or do whatever they wanted, including mob attacks on Prem's residence.

Now even a comparative analysis of a political situation last year and under PPP is punishable if there's even an indirect suggestion that last year wasn't too bad.

Something like "Surayud's ministers resigned over confict of interests issues even if they were legally right, but the current health minister is still staying on" is deemed illegal by Jakrapob's criteria.

He (ACM Chalit) was a coup leader and thus badly tainted.He should have kept quiet and I repeat it is not his business as a serving officer to comment anyway.It is for civil society to keep the government up to mark, not the military.How long will it take for this basic message accepted by all civilised countries to sink through?

As I said disciplinary measures should be applicable to overt current expressions of disloyalty, and there should be no Soviet style investigation of what said before the coup.The example you give (indirect suggestion) is border line, and in my personal view would be acceptable if it was slightly edited to avoid suggestions of bias (ie what the BBC would do).Of course it's not strictly true.Some of Surayud's ministers had conflicts of interest without resigning - but let's not go down that road.

[sriracha john]

The pugnacious People Power Party pugilist punches on...

MP refuses to resign over alleged assault

Karun Hosakul, a Bangkok MP for the PPP, has refused to resign over an alleged assault on a member of the opposition. Karun claimed there has been no firm evidence that he is guilty of the assault. A House fact-finding committee agreed last week that Karun physically and verbally assaulted Democrat MP Somkiat Pongpaibul in the parliament building on April 2. Karun said if police decided he was guilty, he would only have to pay a fine and there would be no need to resign his seat. He also argued that the findings of the fact-finding committee were only circumstantial and it did not include strong evidence that he was guilty. The PPP MP was accused of verbally insulting and kicking Mr Somkiat during a coffee break in a heated House debate on Mr Somkiat's role in the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD). Democrat MP and opposition whip Sathit Wongnongtoey said his party would ask for the House committee's findings tomorrow. The party wants to know what punishment the PPP will take against Karun.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/13May2008_news14.php

[Plus]

He (ACM Chalit) was a coup leader and thus badly tainted.He should have kept quiet and I repeat it is not his business as a serving officer to comment anyway.

Why? He was asked a question, he answered. Look at American generals opinions on Iraq war, for example. They don't particularly care about the government politics and often tell it as they see it. I bet one can find their opinions on media freedom, too, but generally no one asks them about that.

[younghusband]

He (ACM Chalit) was a coup leader and thus badly tainted.He should have kept quiet and I repeat it is not his business as a serving officer to comment anyway.

Why? He was asked a question, he answered. Look at American generals opinions on Iraq war, for example. They don't particularly care about the government politics and often tell it as they see it. I bet one can find their opinions on media freedom, too, but generally no one asks them about that.

American generals do indeed sometimes speak out when government policy on military matters seems ill advised to them.However they do so at their own risk if serving officers and would be subject to instant dismissal if the elected government deemed the remarks a breach of confidence or disloyal

Why would anyone in America ask a General about media freedom? It's none of their business, nor should it be in Thailand.

[sriracha john]

they do so at their own risk if serving officers and would be subject to instant dismissal if the elected government deemed the remarks a breach of confidence or disloyal

Do you have any examples of this happening?

[Plus]

Why would anyone in America ask a General about media freedom? It's none of their business, nor should it be in Thailand.

Actually with the new practice of embedded reporters questions about media freedom are very important.

As Chalit was one of the coup leaders, he has legitimate concerns when Jakrapob tries to block the media from discussing junta's performance. Not everyone has only good/evil switch when it comes to Thai generals. Jakrapob (and YH, apparently), can't allow the thought of "maybe it wasn't so bad" to enter their heads.

[younghusband]

they do so at their own risk if serving officers and would be subject to instant dismissal if the elected government deemed the remarks a breach of confidence or disloyal

Do you have any examples of this happening?

The most famous example was the dismissal of General Macarthur by Harry Truman for criticising the President in public.The principle I stated is beyond debate in developed countries but generally there aren't that many examples because the military, certainly in the US and the UK, recognise without question the control of the armed forces by elected governments.It takes a monstrously large ego like that of Macarthur to lose sight of this.

In the UK a senior officer making a comment like that of Chalit would be facing some kind of disciplinary action but probably not dismisal.Can I conclude by saying that on military matters there is no problem in my view with a senior officer criticising politicians if he feels they are neglecting national interests and if he has exhausted all internal channels of expressing his opinions.

[Plus]

Macartur? I thought you could find a more recent example with one general after another offering critical remarks over the conduct of both Iraq and Afganistan wars.

"exhausted all internal channels of expressing his opinions" - the whole country gave up on reasoning with Samak/Jakrapob already. Maybe you can shoot them an e-mail, maybe they'll listen to you.

[sriracha john]

Macartur? I thought you could find a more recent example with one general after another offering critical remarks over the conduct of both Iraq and Afganistan wars.

Have to admit I was expecting something from within the last 50 years myself.

===============================================================

Meanwhile...

A football match between government and opposition MPs on Tuesday.

That was attended by the "dirty-playing" Kung <deleted> Master...

Karun Hosakul plays in a football match between the government and opposition MPs. The opposition players walked out after he was substituted onto the pitch.

The Nation

[sriracha john]

Karun swears on his mother's life he is innocent

Instead of resigning from his post, People Power Party MP Karun Hosakul swore on his mother's life he did not kick and punch Democrat MP Somkiart Pongpaiboon as accused.

Under pressure from Somkiart and the Democrats, Karun refuted the investigation result of the parliamentary special committee. He also refused to resign.

"I won't quit as I am not guilty. I dared Somkiart to swear, but he refused. If we swear, I will swear on my mother's life because I love my mother. If the police say I'm guilty, I'll just have to pay the fine. But I will not quit because I did nothing wrong," he said.

Somkiart yesterday asked Karun to quit as an MP as he promised earlier that he would resign if he was found guilty.

Karun faces charges of kicking and throwing a punch at Somkiart at Parliament early last month. The information from the two was conflicting. Karun dared Somkiart that the one who lied must resign from the MP's post.

Second Deputy House Speaker Apiwan Wiriyachai who headed the House special committee probing the case said on Friday that there were reasons to believe Karun did attack Somkiart as charged. However, he said the committee is not the court.

Somkiart also filed complaint of assault with the police. Karun said the committee had no evidence. The report only said "there were reasons to believe".

Opposition chief whip Sathit Wongnongtoey said the "reasons to believe" phrase was enough legally and called on the House Speaker to take responsibility in Karun's case as it was a threat to people's representatives. Moreover, the House Speaker comes from the same party as Karun.

- Daily Xpress / 13-05-08

[Tony Clifton]

Does he love his mother as much as Sudarat who also loves her father so much, after she was banned from politics she got him to run as MP even though he's in a wheelchair and needs to be pushed around.

This f*&^ clown is making the Thai love sign but inside is thumbing hios nose to the whole country.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[hammered]

Nice to be a childish and mentally deficient member of the Thai elite and never ever have to take responsibility for your own actions like a normal human being. What next crashing your car into crowded bus stops and moaning that the plebs have scratched it? Or maybe denying more than one person was murdered at a massacre you are linked to on international media. Oh and then there is always Daddy to make things good in the unlikely event of thigns going pear shaped. Of course such things would never ever happen in reality.

[sriracha john]

I fear for her life.

She should borrow Yongyuth's victims' refrigerator for protection.

[sriracha john]

House Speaker: Verdict on Karun case expected today

House Speaker-elect Chai Chidchob has made it clear he doesn't know much

- Bangkok Post

*edit... apologies. I thought that phrasing pretty much says it all.

but anyway, here's the "Continued here" link:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127650

Edited May 14, 2008 by sriracha john

[hammered]

House Speaker: Verdict on Karun case expected today

House Speaker-elect Chai Chidchob has made it clear he doesn't know much

- Bangkok Post

*edit... apologies. I thought that phrasing pretty much says it all.

but anyway, here's the "Continued here" link:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127650

Guess he is having one of those senior moments like John McCain has.

[sriracha john]

The relentlessly repent-less, rambunctious, rebellious, rabble-rouser resists reproach....

Abhisit sets conditions for Karun

The government MP at the centre of the April 2 brawl inside Parliament wants forgiveness without showing remorse, but opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva counters that Karun Hosakul's absolution hinges on his admission of guilt.

The House yesterday saw two hours of heated debate, but failed to draw a conclusion on how to penalise Karun for the verbal and physical assault on Democrat MP Somkiart Pongpaiboon.

On the House floor, Deputy House Speaker Apiwan Wiriyachai, who chaired the investigative panel, read out his report on Karun's misconduct.

He said the panel met seven times and heard the testimonies of nine eyewitnesses in order to answer two key questions - whether Karun had executed a kung-<deleted> kick against Somkiart and whether he had used rude language.

The panel found that Karun did assault Somkiart and that he had used impolite words, he said.

Before allowing government and opposition MPs to debate the issue, he said Karun and Somkiart both showed willingness to forgive and forget when he invited them to his office for a mediation session.

He said he turned down a plea by Karun to act as a go-between to mend fences with the opposition as he deemed it necessary for Karun to take responsibility for his actions.

Many government MPs expressed disbelief about Karun's misconduct and questioned the report's credibility while opposition members demanded punishment.

Karun said he had no opinion on the conclusion drawn by the report because he did not assault Somkiart.

"Although the panel is responsible for a fact-finding mission, it is not a court of law to judge me," he said.

Speaking from the House floor, Abhisit said the opposition members are willing to drop the matter if Karun concedes he has erred.

- The Nation (today)

Edited May 14, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

PAD to renew street rallies on Sunday

The People’s Alliance for Democracy will hold a major rally at the Democracy Monument on Sunday afternoon to protest government moves to amend the constitution. They will also call for the impeachment of government ministers who have shown traits of working for their own self-interest. The group called on members of the public to take part in this rally and to bring along with them a copy of their identification card to sign impeachment petitions against ministers trying to scrap the

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127787

[nomoretalksin]

TOC NEWS:

PAD leader declares last battle against charter amendment

UPDATE : 24 May 2008

Manager Group founder Sondhi Limthongkul, one of the five leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy, or P.A.D., announced on his TV show "Thailand Watch" that the PAD rally at Democracy Monument tomorrow will be his last battle , adding that it might be the end of the Thaksin regime or the beginning of a democratic republic system.

He expressed his readiness to fight in this rally no matter what will happen or what the results are. Sondhi told viewers about his past and how he got into this battle. He was born to a Chinese family in Sukhothai province. His family was not rich so he had to fight for the family since he was young. Sondhi said that he stared working at the Democracy Newspaper and got fired after the October 6th, 1976 incident. He then worked at the Manager Newspaper when the government of General Chatchai Choonhawan was overthrown. He stated that he had to fight against the military dictatorship and remembered that he used to provide assistance for Police Captain Chalerm Yubamrung, the current Interior Minister, who had to escape to a foreign country for his life at the time. Sondhi also talked about his previous friendship with former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.The PAD leader said that he has known Thaksin since the start of Shinawatra Computer Company. Sondhi revealed that he gave Thaksin a lot of IEC shares when he took over the IEC company. When Thaksin decided to get into politics, Sondhi said that he always gave Thaksin support but the relationship was broken when he couldn't stand Thaksin's inappropriate behavior, particularly when Thaksin sat at a religious ceremony at the Grand Palace like a member of the Royal Family, which is unacceptable.

continue to read all

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/toc/ViewData...?DataID=1007091

[hammered]

Whatever way we want to look at it, it is clear that reconcilliation is further away than ever. Nobody is willing to give a millimetre let alone an inch. Not a good sign.