Samak Sundaravej was elected

[h90]

His behaviour is quite bizarre. The head of the government doesnt speak to reproters anymore while the seat of government is surrounded,. Obviously he has lost massive amounts of face or maybe even had it broken but you'd expect the head of a government to rally the troops (excuse the expression) and to be making statements on how the problem would be resolved.

He's waiting for the safety of the old Channel 11 spin studios...

PM to Announce Plan to Deal with PAD Rally Tomorrow

PM Samak Sundaravej has told the media he will not flee from Government House now that the PAD protestors have surrounded it. He says he will announce tomorrow on his weekly television program about his plans to deal with the PAD rally.

- Thailand Outlook

Send emissaries, state of emergency, cry, propose changing the constitution again for a laugh, cook em all a khao pat or what?

"I the premier being the democratic erected Samak of Thailand"

"I don't want to swear but I shall play Doom if I every told to block the PAD"

bla bla nonsense, bla, bla nonsense

I won't force them away, but I am Samak I use all power I have to force them away at any means"

bla nonsense bla bla

"I Samak, I was never corrupt, friendly smart and handsome, why they don't let me cook aeh work"

bla nonsense blabla

[Ricardo]

and last night activities....

While protesters surrounded Government House yesterday, PM Samak was in a karaoke lounge at the Army Club monitoring the protests. Samak reportedly contemplated going to a number of venues where he could monitor and assess the situation. There are no conference rooms at the club, so Samak was escorted to the VIP 3 karaoke lounge. His entourage settled down in the VIP 2 lounge. Karaoke monitors were tuned to television stations so Samak and his team could monitor the demonstration. He was later joined by Army Chief, First Army Commander, and National Police Chief. Samak was then seen leaving as he sneaked into a pick-up truck and his motorcade reportedly headed in the direction of the Air Force Base at Don Mueang. It was reported that Samak used three vehicles yesterday in an apparent bid to

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/210608_News/21Jun2008_news02.php

I got told he didn't like the music there and his friends sang the wrong songs.....

Frank Sinatra's Greatest Hits, perhaps ?

[nomoretalksin]

and last night activities....

While protesters surrounded Government House yesterday, PM Samak was in a karaoke lounge at the Army Club monitoring the protests. Samak reportedly contemplated going to a number of venues where he could monitor and assess the situation. There are no conference rooms at the club, so Samak was escorted to the VIP 3 karaoke lounge. His entourage settled down in the VIP 2 lounge. Karaoke monitors were tuned to television stations so Samak and his team could monitor the demonstration. He was later joined by Army Chief, First Army Commander, and National Police Chief. Samak was then seen leaving as he sneaked into a pick-up truck and his motorcade reportedly headed in the direction of the Air Force Base at Don Mueang. It was reported that Samak used three vehicles yesterday in an apparent bid to

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/210608_News/21Jun2008_news02.php

I got told he didn't like the music there and his friends sang the wrong songs.....

Frank Sinatra's Greatest Hits, perhaps ?

I like to beat it (or them)

by Micheal Jackson I suppose.

Wearing a black hat, and making some break-beat twists!

[Ricardo]

PPP Spokesman says PM will not resign

The Spokesman of the People Power Party (PPP) and member of the party’s war room, Lt. Kuthep Saikrachang, says it is impossible for the Prime Minister and Defense Minister Samak Sundaravej, to resign, as the government has been formed for only three months.

- ThaiNews (today)

January to June is only three months ? Perhaps he would benefit from an all-expenses-paid training-course, preferably in Europe or the States, to teach him some basic maths.

Although looking at the (very) short list, of things the coalition-government has actually achieved, since they took power, one can perhaps understand his confusion.

[sriracha john]

Thai PM vows to stay in office

BANGKOK — Thailand's embattled Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej vowed not to quit Saturday, defying thousands of protesters who have besieged the capital demanding that he resign from office.

But Samak pledged to answer his critics during his weekly television address on Sunday.

"Wait and listen to me tomorrow," Samak told reporters during a visit to a police hospital, adding that he expected to return to work at his office where protesters have assembled to demand that he quit.

"Prime Minister Samak will speak on everything Sunday in his "Samak Talks"," Nutthawut Saikua, deputy government spokesman told AFP. "I can confirm that he will not resign," Nutthawut said.

The under fire prime minister won elections in December 2007 after more than a year of military rule following Thaksin's ouster in a coup.

But Samak's rule has come under attack both in the streets and in parliament just four months after forming a government, raising new fears about Thailand's stability.

Samak met with Thailand's most senior army commander, General Anupong Paojinda, on Friday afternoon to discuss the ongoing troubles.

- AFP (1 hour ago)

[plachon]

PPP Assures PM Won't Quit His Post

The People Power Party held a press conference, assuring the Prime Minister won't be quitting his post after rumors came out of his possible resignation, as pressured by the military.

Now that the PAD rally has relocated to Government House, the PPP made a satirical comment that Cabinet will have to meet at a temple.

- Thailand Outlook

======================================================================

a temple would actually be the perfect place for them...

Preferably in the meru.

[Plus]

none of PPP MPs asked him to step down because they all want him to solve national problems.

Tens of thousands of people surrounding government house would be a nice problem to start.

What a stupid, stubborn man. He doesn't get it - that tiny problem isn't going to go away, he can't run the country from karaoke lounge and pretend nothing happened.

[sriracha john]

His behaviour is quite bizarre. The head of the government doesnt speak to reproters anymore while the seat of government is surrounded,. Obviously he has lost massive amounts of face or maybe even had it broken but you'd expect the head of a government to rally the troops (excuse the expression) and to be making statements on how the problem would be resolved.

He's waiting for the safety of the old Channel 11 spin studios...

PM to Announce Plan to Deal with PAD Rally Tomorrow

PM Samak Sundaravej has told the media he will not flee from Government House now that the PAD protestors have surrounded it. He says he will announce tomorrow on his weekly television program about his plans to deal with the PAD rally.

- Thailand Outlook

a. Send emissaries,

b. state of emergency

c. cry

d. propose changing the constitution again for a laugh

e. cook em all a khao pat

f. or what?

A combination of b. and e.

I guess we're down to just khao pat as the honorable and respected Interior Minister reassures the country...

Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung insisted Saturday that the government will not declare state of emergency

Chalerm, who appeared in good mood, gave an interview after having his haircut inside his house at 11 am. He said the government would not enforce the emergency decree to deal with the situation because the protesters still demonstrate peacefully.

The interior minister said the protesters would have to wait forever if they wanted the government to use force to crack down on them.

- The Nation

========================================================================

In this world those golden rules

May seem like they're made for fools

Puppets on a string that blessing can bring

Forever is a long long time

Forever is a long long time

But now the wine has turned sour after all these years of fighting

So many wars but still his kingdom is not striking

Pray for your enemy

And love without agony

Always ready for his day to come

Forever is a long long time

Forever is a long time

--------------------------------- Yngwie Malmsteen

Edited June 21, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

The even more honorable and even more respected Jatuporn confirms...

No state of emergency announcement: Jatuporn

The government will not declare the state of emergency to deal with protesters, People Power Party MP Jatuporn Promphan said Saturday.

He said the government would not resort to the emergency announcement as long as police could control the situation.

Jatuporn said the protest by the People's Alliance for Democracy would not be able to prevent Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej and his Cabinet from working.

He said the prime minister and the Cabinet would still be able to hold Cabinet meeting and to work from somewhere else.

- The Nation

===================================================================

I understand Greenland is lovely this time of year. Perhaps they'll meet there, however I'm not sure if Jatuporn's bail conditions allow him to travel outside of the country. Afterall, he's not Thaksin.

[younghusband]

none of PPP MPs asked him to step down because they all want him to solve national problems.

Tens of thousands of people surrounding government house would be a nice problem to start.

What a stupid, stubborn man. He doesn't get it - that tiny problem isn't going to go away, he can't run the country from karaoke lounge and pretend nothing happened.

a

I think you are becoming a bit over excited.Just because a mob of tens of thousands of people surround Government House doesn't mean the government should step down.If it was a mob of Isarn peasants I suspect you might take a different view.I want to see a decent government headed by Abhisit but he will have to have a mandate preferably through winning an election.

[Plus]

Just because a mob of tens of thousands of people surround Government House doesn't mean the government should step down.

That means the government cannot function. It also means that the government should try everything in their power to diffuse the stand off and Samak will be sacrificed sooner or later.

That means everyone else will have to go, too, but they can save face by not resigning enmasse as PAD demands. Many will probably sneak back in anyway.

Of course Samak can try and hang onto his job, sacrificing his office building, but PAD has many other options to up the ante, especially with union workers on their side. They mentioned civil disobedience, they can initiate massive strikes, they can attract truckers and farmers blocking major roads across the country, or block the airports. It's not going to go away, there's simply no option of going back to rosy post election days. It's impossible, protesters need to be placated, period. For Samak it's a point of no return.

As for Abhisit and the Democrats - their fate is not important, it's about getting Thaksin to face justice, not about who gets to govern. Eventually they might be able to muster a coalition, or even win the elections - good for them (and possibly for the country), but at the moment it's not a pressing issue.

[sriracha john]

He didn't like Karaoke VIP Room #3... and was peeved that the much-better VIP Room #1 was being used by Chuwit for a Soapie Party...

PM insists not to move workplace to Army Headquarters

Today the Prime Minister confirmed to the press that he will walk in to work at the Government House amid the surrounding PAD rally.

The Prime Minister revealed to the press that he will not move to work at the Defense Ministry and will continue his work at the Government House Office despite the PAD rally surrounding the area.

The Prime Minister said that he will give information about the measures to be launched in response to the ongoing rally on his Samak Talk TV Program to be aired on the NBT channel tomorrow morning.

Meanwhile, National Police Chief Police General Patcharawat Wongsuwan said that the police will discuss policy to provide safety for the Prime Minister as he insists on continuing his work at the Government House.

The National Police Chief confirmed that the police are able to control the ongoing rally situation without dispatching reinforcements. Police General Patcharawat said that the police will also discuss the related issues and legal procedures regarding the police officers who were injured in the rally yesterday.

- Thailand Outlook

[younghusband]

Just because a mob of tens of thousands of people surround Government House doesn't mean the government should step down.

That means the government cannot function. It also means that the government should try everything in their power to diffuse the stand off and Samak will be sacrificed sooner or later.

That means everyone else will have to go, too, but they can save face by not resigning enmasse as PAD demands. Many will probably sneak back in anyway.

Of course Samak can try and hang onto his job, sacrificing his office building, but PAD has many other options to up the ante, especially with union workers on their side. They mentioned civil disobedience, they can initiate massive strikes, they can attract truckers and farmers blocking major roads across the country, or block the airports. It's not going to go away, there's simply no option of going back to rosy post election days. It's impossible, protesters need to be placated, period. For Samak it's a point of no return.

As for Abhisit and the Democrats - their fate is not important, it's about getting Thaksin to face justice, not about who gets to govern. Eventually they might be able to muster a coalition, or even win the elections - good for them (and possibly for the country), but at the moment it's not a pressing issue.

If there was a national campaign of protest, involving millions, as you suggest - that would be a different matter altogether.However at the moment it's just a Bangkok mob of say 30,000.As Thitinan puts it "a limited and narrow steet based movement".Samak's not my idea of an acceptable PM but don't forget he won an election, was royally endorsed and has a majority in a parliament.

PAD's thinking is just weird.According to Suriyasai, they have voted no confidence in the government -as though they somehow speak for the Thai people.They don't.Basically people like this just can't bear the prospect of an election.Their leadership is grotesquely third rate and very far from a non -violent like movement with their unctuous Chamlong lieing about baseball bats.

Your comment on Thaksin speaks for itself.A little while ago I agreed it was all about Thaksin and his money, but unless you have the naivety of a five year old the matter doesn't end there.Why precisely does anyone think key forces want Thaksin out of the way, just to return the ruling class to its pristine purity?

Edited June 22, 2008 by younghusband

[marshbags]

Just because a mob of tens of thousands of people surround Government House doesn't mean the government should step down.

That means the government cannot function. It also means that the government should try everything in their power to diffuse the stand off and Samak will be sacrificed sooner or later.

That means everyone else will have to go, too, but they can save face by not resigning enmasse as PAD demands. Many will probably sneak back in anyway.

Of course Samak can try and hang onto his job, sacrificing his office building, but PAD has many other options to up the ante, especially with union workers on their side. They mentioned civil disobedience, they can initiate massive strikes, they can attract truckers and farmers blocking major roads across the country, or block the airports. It's not going to go away, there's simply no option of going back to rosy post election days. It's impossible, protesters need to be placated, period. For Samak it's a point of no return.

As for Abhisit and the Democrats - their fate is not important, it's about getting Thaksin to face justice, not about who gets to govern. Eventually they might be able to muster a coalition, or even win the elections - good for them (and possibly for the country), but at the moment it's not a pressing issue.

If there was a national campaign of protest, involving millions, as you suggest - that would be a different matter altogether.However at the moment it's just a Bangkok mob of say 30,000.Samak's not my idea of an acceptable PM but don't forget he won an election, was royally endorsed and has a majority in a parliament.

PAD's thinking is just weird.According to Suriyasai, they have voted no confidence in the government -as though they somehow speak for the Thai people.They don't.Basically people like this just can't bear the prospect of an election.

Your comment on Thaksin speaks for itself.A little while ago I agreed it was all about Thaksin and his money, but unless you have the naivety of a five year old the matter doesn't end there.Why precisely does anyone think key forces want Thaksin out of the way, just to return the ruling class to its pristine purity?

There you go again Y H making desparaging remarks about a democratic and peaceful protest in relation to a just cause and for the good of themselves and a better future for Thailand.

I read your comments and this particular reference sticks out a mile as i did, you don,t do yourself any favours by making acidic remarks that are uncalled for.

I,m sure you know what a mob definition is and it for sure isn,t applicable to the present demonstrations, and that,s for sure

Other than that your comments are welcomed in the debate for others who have time to discuss them in depth should they wish to do so.

marshbags

Edited June 22, 2008 by marshbags

[younghusband]

I read your comments and this particular reference sticks out a mile as i did, you don,t do yourself any favours by making acidic remarks that are uncalled for.

I,m sure you know what a mob definition is and it for sure isn,t applicable to the present demonstrations, and that,s for sure

Other than that your comments are welcomed in the debate for others who have time to discuss them in depth should they wish to do so.

marshbags

I've always had a soft spot for you Marshbanks mainly for your uncynical passion on the illegal drugs war.So I shall keep my acidic remarks to myself on this occasion!

Do you know what the PAD leadership wants? I think the main aim is to destroy Thaksin. Have you ever wondered why the "puyai" as you call them don't nail him for his part in the drugs war?

I know what a mob looks like and the PAD scenes in the last few days were clearly a mob.

[Plus]

Do you know what the PAD leadership wants? I think the main aim is to destroy Thaksin.

That's why I said installing Abhisit as a PM doesn't matter. If he is seen as stalling Thaksin's cases, PAD will turn against him, though their union allies will probably won't go that far.

"Limited and narrow street movement of 30,000" translates into millions of supporters who stay home. Daily approval ratings might fluctuate widely, the crackdown Saturday possibly being the highest and following Monday the lowest (after amendment motion was withdrawn), but I bet PAD scored some major PR points with a non-violent blockade of the government house. According to poll results definetely more people want them to carry on than to pack up and go home. People want PAD to do their "dirty" job for them and keep pressure on the government. As I said, I don't approve of asking for Samak's resignation in principle, but realistically it's the most obvious course of action at the moment. I don't see any good alternatives.

Apart from carrying baseball bats there's nothing "mobby" about them, imo. They also carry lots ot makeshift protective gear, bats are just a small part of it. If a crowd of 30,000 passes through a cordon of 3,000 heavily armed anti-riot police force and the most you get is two sore thumbs, it's not a mob. Suriasai, btw, went to the hospital to check on injured officers.

I don't even know why are we discussing this seriously. Have you forgotten scenes at Prem's residence? Have you forgotten Central World attacks on elderly people while police was watching the other way? Have you forgotten recent DAAD's performance at Sanam Luang?

Labelling PAD a "mob" after all that speaks of great prejudice on your part, nothing else.

[younghusband]

"Limited and narrow street movement of 30,000" translates into millions of supporters who stay home. Daily approval ratings might fluctuate widely, the crackdown Saturday possibly being the highest and following Monday the lowest (after amendment motion was withdrawn), but I bet PAD scored some major PR points with a non-violent blockade of the government house. According to poll results definetely more people want them to carry on than to pack up and go home. People want PAD to do their "dirty" job for them and keep pressure on the government. As I said, I don't approve of asking for Samak's resignation in principle, but realistically it's the most obvious course of action at the moment. I don't see any good alternatives.

Apart from carrying baseball bats there's nothing "mobby" about them, imo.

I love that bit about "apart from carrying baseball bats"!! I have been very consistent that PAD has every right to demonstrate but the performance over the last few days was mob behaviour par excellence.

The biggest misaprehension in your post is that this mob somehow represents a silent majority.Dream on Plus.Come to think of it wasn't it you that used to claim the silent majority suported the coup although if memory serves you piped down after the Thai people slapped the junta in the face at the general election.

[sriracha john]

However at the moment it's just a Bangkok mob

I,m sure you know what a mob definition is and it for sure isn,t applicable to the present demonstrations, and that,s for sure

He keeps confusing DAAD with PAD, marshbags....

[h90]

here all speaking from 30.000 people, while I read somewhere before (can't recall where, maybe Thai Visa) that Reuters calculated 550.000 people. I really don't know....someone has some reliable numbers?

[younghusband]

However at the moment it's just a Bangkok mob

I,m sure you know what a mob definition is and it for sure isn,t applicable to the present demonstrations, and that,s for sure

He keeps confusing DAAD with PAD, marshbags....

Oh touche, what a penetrating and incisive point.

Try telling that to the young police women with broken bones injured by PAD thugs.

[younghusband]

here all speaking from 30.000 people, while I read somewhere before (can't recall where, maybe Thai Visa) that Reuters calculated 550.000 people. I really don't know....someone has some reliable numbers?

I would have thought Reuters was about right wouldn't you? 550,000 sounds about right if not more.

Most international correspondents present laughably calculated about 25,000 but everyone knows they're in the pay of Thaksin.

[sriracha john]

However at the moment it's just a Bangkok mob

I,m sure you know what a mob definition is and it for sure isn,t applicable to the present demonstrations, and that,s for sure

He keeps confusing DAAD with PAD, marshbags....

Oh touche, what a penetrating and incisive point.

Try telling that to the young police women with broken bones injured by PAD thugs.

Tell us how did the broken arm occur? Was she beaten and stomped on by "PAD thugs"?

How many police were slightly injured in PAD's protest? 4. How many police were injured in DAAD's riot involving tens of thousands fewer protestors? 200.

Did DAAD go visit any of the police in the hospital that were injured? No. Did PAD? Yes.

[Plus]

wasn't it you that used to claim the silent majority suported the coup although if memory serves you piped down after the Thai people slapped the junta in the face at the general election.

64% of voters slapped junta in the face by voting for junta "approved" parties? That's an interesting conclusion. Go on, search election threads, it's all there. On party list, ie national politics level, PPP was almost beaten by Democrats alone, without even adding various "alternatives" like Ruam Jai or Matchima or Chart Thai.

Do I need to remind you that PPP was the only anti-coup party while the pro-coup parties split their votes six ways? No wonder PPP got the biggest overall number. No wonder they had to publicly drop their anit-junta/pro-Thaksin agenda to form a coalition. No wonder they find themselves in precarious situation now, when they brought it back.

In short - they don't have the mandate to amend the Constitution and dissolve AEC, despite their rhetoric about being democratically elected, majority is not on their side (or was not, at the election time, if you don't recognize public opinion polls). Last month one poll showed only 4% in favour of charter rewrite - that's how low their support can drop.

As for "silent majority" - have you noticed that whoever speaks on their behalf ends up concluding that Thaksin should stand in courts, effectively supporting PAD's main thrust, even if they disagree on many other points. For these people, pretending to speak for millions but having no popular support or any allies, it's the same, 2005 situation all over again - "Thaksin is corrupt, but no way I'm going to be seen together with Sondhi and Chamlong", or 2006-2007 - "Thaksin is corrupt, but no way I'm going to support the junta in their attempts to punish him". So they end up like dogs chasing passing cars - annoying, distracting noise and the aura of self importance.

[younghusband]

wasn't it you that used to claim the silent majority suported the coup although if memory serves you piped down after the Thai people slapped the junta in the face at the general election.

64% of voters slapped junta in the face by voting for junta "approved" parties? That's an interesting conclusion. Go on, search election threads, it's all there. On party list, ie national politics level, PPP was almost beaten by Democrats alone, without even adding various "alternatives" like Ruam Jai or Matchima or Chart Thai.

Do I need to remind you that PPP was the only anti-coup party while the pro-coup parties split their votes six ways? No wonder PPP got the biggest overall number. No wonder they had to publicly drop their anit-junta/pro-Thaksin agenda to form a coalition. No wonder they find themselves in precarious situation now, when they brought it back.

In short - they don't have the mandate to amend the Constitution and dissolve AEC, despite their rhetoric about being democratically elected, majority is not on their side (or was not, at the election time, if you don't recognize public opinion polls). Last month one poll showed only 4% in favour of charter rewrite - that's how low their support can drop.

As for "silent majority" - have you noticed that whoever speaks on their behalf ends up concluding that Thaksin should stand in courts, effectively supporting PAD's main thrust, even if they disagree on many other points. For these people, pretending to speak for millions but having no popular support or any allies, it's the same, 2005 situation all over again - "Thaksin is corrupt, but no way I'm going to be seen together with Sondhi and Chamlong", or 2006-2007 - "Thaksin is corrupt, but no way I'm going to support the junta in their attempts to punish him". So they end up like dogs chasing passing cars - annoying, distracting noise and the aura of self importance.

I like your last paragraph, smart and point well made though by your criteria few if any governments are democratically elected.Don't know about being a dog chasing a car but you're right.Indecisive liberals like me are probably too squeamish about bedfellows.Nevertheless remember the old proverb about riding the tiger....Remember Kerensky who thought he could use and tame the feral Bolsheviks.

On one point I think you err.The Democrats were never pro-coup, publically at least.I don't recall the other parties giving overt support either.

[younghusband]

Try telling that to the young police women with broken bones injured by PAD thugs.

Tell us how did the broken arm occur? Was she beaten and stomped on by "PAD thugs"?

How many police were slightly injured in PAD's protest? 4. How many police were injured in DAAD's riot involving tens of thousands fewer protestors? 200.

Did DAAD go visit any of the police in the hospital that were injured? No. Did PAD? Yes.

No idea how the PAD baseball wielding thugs harmed the young policewomen.Suggest you ask your friends.

I'm sure the unappetising old duo of Chamlong and Sondhi sought to limit the PR damage by getting a few PAD types to visit the injured.

Joking apart my point is a mob is a mob is a mob.Just because one is middle class doesn't make it more virtuous than the DAAD rabble.

[sriracha john]

my point is a mob is a mob is a mob.Just because one is middle class doesn't make it more virtuous than the DAAD rabble.

and the PAD's two year history of non-violence disproves you lumping them together.

[Meerkat]

Tell us how did the broken arm occur? Was she beaten and stomped on by "PAD thugs"?

Sounded pretty "thuggish" to me.

How many police were slightly injured in PAD's protest? 4. How many police were injured in DAAD's riot involving tens of thousands fewer protestors? 200.

Did DAAD go visit any of the police in the hospital that were injured? No. Did PAD? Yes.

Ah, so as long as only a few police are wounded (broken limbs are a slight injury now?), and some of those responsible then visit them in hospital, violence is OK then? What's an acceptable level of violence in your opinion? You've implied it's somewhere between 4 and 200 casualties, or, as you've stated that the equally detestable (IMO) DAAD thugs had a smaller mob, perhaps you'd prefer to quote the permissable level as a percentage of injuries inflicted per protester.

Violence is violence; trying to spin it away with a "But...but...they were even worse!" argument is just ridiculous.

[sriracha john]

Tell us how did the broken arm occur? Was she beaten and stomped on by "PAD thugs"?

Sounded pretty "thuggish" to me.

How many police were slightly injured in PAD's protest? 4. How many police were injured in DAAD's riot involving tens of thousands fewer protesters? 200.

Did DAAD go visit any of the police in the hospital that were injured? No. Did PAD? Yes.

Ah, so as long as only a few police are wounded (broken limbs are a slight injury now?), and some of those responsible then visit them in hospital, violence is OK then? What's an acceptable level of violence in your opinion? You've implied it's somewhere between 4 and 200 casualties, or, as you've stated that the equally detestable (IMO) DAAD thugs had a smaller mob, perhaps you'd prefer to quote the permissable level as a percentage of injuries inflicted per protester.

Violence is violence; trying to spin it away with a "But...but...they were even worse!" argument is just ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous as feeble attempts to lump the obviously-diametrically-different groups together.

My aunt broke her arm when no one was around as she stumbled off a curb and fell. Do you know what happened to the police that were injured?

PAD has had dozens of protests involving multiple, multiple thousands for 2 years without incident. DAAD's presence involves violence at nearly every single event they (and their various reincarnations) are involved in. I'm not attempting to spin away violence, merely putting it into perspective.

If violence does occur, it's wrong.

Edited June 22, 2008 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Yet another U-Turn for the erratic driver Samak... but not without making his usual threats of a violent crackdown...

Thailand: PM Lashes Out At Protesters But Ready To Resign If Parliament Votes Against Him

BANGKOK, THAILAND: Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said Sunday (22 June) he would resign if a no-confidence vote went against him in Parliament, but lashed out at protesters surrounding his office in an effort to force his ouster.

The demonstrators, led by the People's Alliance for Democracy, continued to occupy the area around Government House, the seat of Thailand's government, after breaking through a police cordon Friday (20 June).

In a nationwide address on government television, Samak said he was ready to enter the opposition if his coalition partners switched sides and he lost a no-confidence vote in Parliament.

Parliamentary debate starts Monday (23 June).

Samak said he would allow senators and the opposition Democrat Party, which tabled the no-confidence motion, to grill him over the first three days of this week.

Samak's People's Power Party, whose members include many allies of toppled Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, heads a six-party government coalition that controls about two-thirds of the 480 seats in the lower house of Parliament.

Samak's partners would have to desert him for any non-confidence motion in the lower house to succeed. The Senate does not take part in the voting.

While the law requires the resignation of prime ministers who lose such motions, Samak appeared to stress that, unlike other Thai leaders in the past, he would not use extraconstitutional means to cling to power if the vote goes against him.

The demonstrators, who began street protests more than three weeks ago, claim that Samak and his party are mere proxies of Thaksin, who was ousted in a 2006 military coup.

"The (alliance) protests because of their hatred of former Prime Minister Thaksin still prevails. Their hatred of Thaksin is linked to me and they instigate to overthrow me," Samak said.

"I will not bow to your pressure. I will pull out only if I am defeated by a vote in Parliament," he said.

But alliance spokesman Suriyasai Katasila said Saturday even Samak's resignation would not satisfy their demands.

"The People's Alliance for Democracy believes that the government's decision to allow a no-confidence motion in Parliament is a political game to lessen tension. But the decision has come too late," Suriyasai said.

He said even if Samak resigned the protesters would still want to root out his People's Power Party, which they consider a reincarnation of Thaksin's disbanded earlier party.

The alliance led mass demonstrations before the 2006 coup demanding Thaksin step down for alleged corruption and abuse of power. They now accuse Samak's government of interfering with corruption charges against the former prime minister and trying to change the constitution for its own self-interest.

Rumors have swept Bangkok since the protests began that the country's powerful military would stage another coup, something the top brass has repeatedly denied.

Samak's People's Power Party won general elections last December. His Cabinet is packed with Thaksin's allies, and critics say rehabilitating the former leader is among the government's top priorities.

Samak said he would get back to work Monday at Government House despite the ring of protesters around it.

"I am telling you that the government is still stable. The situation in the country is still normal," he said

"I will continue to allow you (the alliance) to demonstrate your power as long as the public still tolerates you. But once the public tells me that they do not tolerate you, I will exercise my right to take tough measures," Samak said without elaboration.

- Associated Press

Edited June 22, 2008 by sriracha john

[hammered]

Samak is obviously not the bets person to have running the country right now, but he was put in through democratic process, and it is going to be nigh on impossible for the opposition to defeat him in parliament without at least some PPP crossover Even with all the coalition partners the Dems would only have a bare majority and sickness absence and abstentions probably make that not enough. In this one what will be telling is how much or little the PPP enforcers try to ensure total turnout and a totally loyal party vote. It is basically up to the PPP whether they want Samak to remain or go, and we should know in advance by their behaviour if they want him or not. My guess is they darent chaneg him now but who knows.