Best Moo Bahns

[moneyshot]

Definiately give Sivalai 3 a look - i just finished building a house there myself and have been happy with the service. The Architect, despite working what seems like 18 hours/day, 7 days a week, tries hard and does a good job. Just make him write things down as he tends to get 3-4 phone calls from other clients while you're talking to him!

Also, Sivalai just expanded a little and there will be some nice plots at the south east corner which should be available soonish, and should be cheaper than the plots currently available near the middle and front of the development.

Now, if only the clubhouse was finished...

Cheers Warrioroo

We will hopefully take a look later this week.

[moneyshot]

I am interested in buying a house in an estate in Chiang Mai, and was wanting some suggestions of the better moo bahns around.

Not concerned with which part of Chiang Mai, just the best quality houses in nice settings.

moneyshot,

Koolpunt 10 in San Kamphaeng has good homes. Atmosphere is nice too.

Home In Park is also worth a look.

Sivalai 3 is good value for the money, but I personally would not put it in the category of 'better quality homes'.

When you are inspecting projects, don't steer blind on what the developer tells you. Do talk with residents living there for awhile (6 months to a year). Knock on a few doors and ask their living experience and/or building experience.

If you buy or build a home in a project with lots of development going on, expect a lot of noise, dust, traffic, and labor annoyances, which could easily go on for another year or maybe two, especially if the project has various development phases, or is extending the project.

Building a home in Thailand is fun if you can control your building project, but it can also be a very stressful event. The language barrier can give more problems then you could ever think of. Put everything in writing, especially modifications, extra's, and detailed quality specifics. Double-check everything.

Research as much as you can, or hire a residential property assistant.

If you need more information or resources, leave me a message.

Thank you Guts

If we do take the building option, I will be in contact.

[moneyshot]

Thanks iang

Home in the park looks very nice from the website, I will be sure to check that too.

Being close to the airport, is it on the flight path?

It's not on the main flight path, so no jets, but the local Mae Hong Son flights come over a couple of times per day. Not a problem.

Sounds good

[Jefferson]

I think an important skill is to be able to estimate what a development will look like 5-10 years from now.

Sure many a new development looks very nice. But if you want this to remain a top development even after all the plots are sold, you need to look further.

Let's take Sivalai. I don't know it other than from the website. Now, the MAXIMUM plot size is 100 sq wa. There's many much smaller plots. So that means right then and there that this will be (or remain) a higher end development; don't get me wrong, it looks VERY GOOD value for money. Land and house prices are very reasonable. But with a bunch of 50'ish Sq wa plots in there, and noting that it's well beyond the Third Ring, it inevitably means some below-middle class people will go in, encouraged by the loans & mortgages on offer. Also, I looked at their biggest house which they say is 4 bedrooms. Looking at the floor plan though I see just three bedrooms upstairs. So that makes it all very very average. A higher level development needs several houses that are much bigger.

Note what happens when all plots are sold (everywhere): the developing company then transfers the maintenance & care taking costs to an owners collective / foundation. So the owners as a group will then make sure the pool remains clean and the gate staffed with security, and so on. If you're not in a higher level moo ban, that effectively means the whole thing ceases to remain a 'serviced gated community'. The gate will remain empty, it becomes just like if you did not buy in a commercial development.

I think to have a chance to have owners rich enough and with enough responsibility to make that step towards keeping the service level up (or improving it, even) means that the MINIMUM plot size should be 100 sq wa, preferably with many houses being sitting on larger plots than that.

Comments?

Edited March 11, 2008 by Jefferson

[Warrioroo]

I think an important skill is to be able to estimate what a development will look like 5-10 years from now.

Sure many a new development looks very nice. But if you want this to remain a top development even after all the plots are sold, you need to look further.

Let's take Sivalai. I don't know it other than from the website. Now, the MAXIMUM plot size is 100 sq wa. There's many much smaller plots. So that means right then and there that this will be (or remain) a higher end development; don't get me wrong, it looks VERY GOOD value for money. Land and house prices are very reasonable. But with a bunch of 50'ish Sq wa plots in there, and noting that it's well beyond the Third Ring, it inevitably means some below-middle class people will go in, encouraged by the loans & mortgages on offer. Also, I looked at their biggest house which they say is 4 bedrooms. Looking at the floor plan though I see just three bedrooms upstairs. So that makes it all very very average. A higher level development needs several houses that are much bigger.

Note what happens when all plots are sold (everywhere): the developing company then transfers the maintenance & care taking costs to an owners collective / foundation. So the owners as a group will then make sure the pool remains clean and the gate staffed with security, and so on. If you're not in a higher level moo ban, that effectively means the whole thing ceases to remain a 'serviced gated community'. The gate will remain empty, it becomes just like if you did not buy in a commercial development.

I think to have a chance to have owners rich enough and with enough responsibility to make that step towards keeping the service level up (or improving it, even) means that the MINIMUM plot size should be 100 sq wa, preferably with many houses being sitting on larger plots than that.

Comments?

Good points certainly, especially on thinking how an estate will look in 5-10 years once the developers bugger off. But it also depends on the residents. In Sivalai 3's case the residents have already started having monthly meetings (separate from the developer) to discuss how things are progressing and any important issues. IF this continues (yes, big IF ), i would forsee in 5-10 years that most of us would chip in a few hundred Baht a month to support some security lads and maintenance... I dont know if this already happens in any other estates that are older? Anybody know?

On plot size, yes max size is 100 talang wah, but quite a few residents have bought 2 or more plots, meaning some are 150-200 talang wah, which is a decent size. The estate have also provided some special plots for larger custom-designed houses at the front, providing the chance for 4-5 bedrooms designs.

So yes, agree with your points... but i'm hoping Sivalai may buck the usual trend. Eternal optimist i know!

[ProThaiExpat]

As I have previously posted, I live in an older Sivalai Development, completed about 4 years ago. Once the developer moved on to Lampang, the various phases of the development met and a couple of the newer phases elected to break off from the project as a whole and to hire a security guard for their "gate", just a shack and sliding partition. To get there you travel through the old gate where the sleeping guard shack was located (now unattended) and drive through some unsightly real estate to get to their "gate".

I am in the phase that was finished just before the break away phases and our monthly maintenance fee is now 100 Baht and it is for street lights and garbage, no security guard. I detect no difference in the overall appearance of the development since break away, but then we have no common area facilities such as pools etc.

The deterioration of developments is a Thai thing in my opinion, as is the deterioration of condos for all to see.

Our street is a dead end finger sticking out from the development and about half falang. We all keep our houses and yards looking good, although some better than others.

Having grown up in Japan, I have ingrained, the concept that what is public has nothing to do with ones private life and so your existence in your home doesn't begin until you enter the gate onto your property. Thus unkempt public streets or shacks on approach roads to your development are paid little mind. My home faces away from the development houses and so I have no view of them or their condition, other than when I drive up to my plot.

Coming from the West, I am very conscious of a "sense of community" and those who want beautiful approaches to their property. Many developments in CM have very ostentatious gates, many guards and expensive common area fees. How they do after the developer leaves is still problematic, as most developers subsidize the common area expense until they turn it over.

The least maintained houses in our project are large with outbuildings that the original buyers have gone and left the properties unattended. One I know of was repossesed by the bank and has just sold, perhaps maintenance there will improve.

On our street, the smallest houses on the smallest lots are the best maintained.

My guess is it is an individual thing, large lots don't guarantee good maintenance or good neighbors for that matter.

In the newest breakaway phases, one house was recently painted bright orange yellow with green trim and it really looks awful. How can that be stopped since the juristic rules aren't enforced even if they have color controls. Likewise, many Thais add lean-to like structures to their houses, right up to the property line, usually of "do it yourself" quality construction. Terrible eye sores, as are the untrimmed foliage sticking way out into the street. The over ten year phase since construction seems to be blighted by this the most so far.

I have always been attracted to the Spanish model of home where the house surrounds an interior courtyard, where a pool resides if desired and outside living occurs, all protected from the outside world by the four walls of the house. I would suggest such a layout to anyone building in Thailand so they internalize their living style rather than externalize it. Then they just have to ignore all they see until they enter their attached garage.

After all, even in the most prestigious community, an owner can choose to use exterior spaces for "storage" of all manner of things, usually unsightly. Many Thais choose to hang their laundry out in their front gardens or over their perimeter fences when their houses face west. Can't do anything about that either. Even if a far sighted developer banned such activities, as they do often in the West, there is no enforcement in Thailand of juristic regulations that I have seen.

I once did a house in the West which was a remodel on a half acre of land and to achieve privacy, I planted five foot ficus every foot around the perimeter. In a year I had a wall of green, total privacy. Probably would only take six months in Thailand.

With non-existent zoning law enforcement, even if there are such laws, a body shop can spring up almost anywhere, not, perhaps, in the development but certainly around the edges and along the approaches, usually not until after the developer has gone.

[Mystery1]

Wow that is a nice place it seems, wonder if one can get a loan on a house, i.e. 50% down now etc.

i think the best mooban in town with superb quality in finishing without any bullshit is Sivalai 3 out in San Kampheng.

They can build you a superb house below 6 mil. Unless you rather have something "branded" as Land & House or Quality House. Which is priced too much for what they deliver IMHO.

[anonymouse]

I have always been attracted to the Spanish model of home where the house surrounds an interior courtyard, where a pool resides if desired and outside living occurs, all protected from the outside world by the four walls of the house. I would suggest such a layout to anyone building in Thailand so they internalize their living style rather than externalize it. Then they just have to ignore all they see until they enter their attached garage.

Totally agree with you if I ever get round to building my dream property in Chiang Mai this is the style I would go for.

[buzzer101]

We have just bought a house in Sivalai 3 and managed to get a mortgage through the bank. PM me if you need further details.

Wow that is a nice place it seems, wonder if one can get a loan on a house, i.e. 50% down now etc.

i think the best mooban in town with superb quality in finishing without any bullshit is Sivalai 3 out in San Kampheng.

They can build you a superb house below 6 mil. Unless you rather have something "branded" as Land & House or Quality House. Which is priced too much for what they deliver IMHO.

[scotbeve]

As I have previously posted, I live in an older Sivalai Development, completed about 4 years ago. Once the developer moved on to Lampang, the various phases of the development met and a couple of the newer phases elected to break off from the project as a whole and to hire a security guard for their "gate", just a shack and sliding partition. To get there you travel through the old gate where the sleeping guard shack was located (now unattended) and drive through some unsightly real estate to get to their "gate".

I am in the phase that was finished just before the break away phases and our monthly maintenance fee is now 100 Baht and it is for street lights and garbage, no security guard. I detect no difference in the overall appearance of the development since break away, but then we have no common area facilities such as pools etc.

The deterioration of developments is a Thai thing in my opinion, as is the deterioration of condos for all to see.

Our street is a dead end finger sticking out from the development and about half falang. We all keep our houses and yards looking good, although some better than others.

PTE,

Pls see mid-page...

Scott

Hi PTE,

I'm in phase 4 there and there is actually a difference of upkeep of the "moo bahns" (phases 2,3, and 4). How well is the TAO taking care of your area. Mark was relatively happy to leave... Has there been any decrease of property value once that section of Sivalai split off?

Having grown up in Japan, I have ingrained, the concept that what is public has nothing to do with ones private life and so your existence in your home doesn't begin until you enter the gate onto your property. Thus unkempt public streets or shacks on approach roads to your development are paid little mind. My home faces away from the development houses and so I have no view of them or their condition, other than when I drive up to my plot.

Coming from the West, I am very conscious of a "sense of community" and those who want beautiful approaches to their property. Many developments in CM have very ostentatious gates, many guards and expensive common area fees. How they do after the developer leaves is still problematic, as most developers subsidize the common area expense until they turn it over.

The least maintained houses in our project are large with outbuildings that the original buyers have gone and left the properties unattended. One I know of was repossesed by the bank and has just sold, perhaps maintenance there will improve.

On our street, the smallest houses on the smallest lots are the best maintained.

My guess is it is an individual thing, large lots don't guarantee good maintenance or good neighbors for that matter.

In the newest breakaway phases, one house was recently painted bright orange yellow with green trim and it really looks awful. How can that be stopped since the juristic rules aren't enforced even if they have color controls. Likewise, many Thais add lean-to like structures to their houses, right up to the property line, usually of "do it yourself" quality construction. Terrible eye sores, as are the untrimmed foliage sticking way out into the street. The over ten year phase since construction seems to be blighted by this the most so far.

I have always been attracted to the Spanish model of home where the house surrounds an interior courtyard, where a pool resides if desired and outside living occurs, all protected from the outside world by the four walls of the house. I would suggest such a layout to anyone building in Thailand so they internalize their living style rather than externalize it. Then they just have to ignore all they see until they enter their attached garage.

After all, even in the most prestigious community, an owner can choose to use exterior spaces for "storage" of all manner of things, usually unsightly. Many Thais choose to hang their laundry out in their front gardens or over their perimeter fences when their houses face west. Can't do anything about that either. Even if a far sighted developer banned such activities, as they do often in the West, there is no enforcement in Thailand of juristic regulations that I have seen.

I once did a house in the West which was a remodel on a half acre of land and to achieve privacy, I planted five foot ficus every foot around the perimeter. In a year I had a wall of green, total privacy. Probably would only take six months in Thailand.

With non-existent zoning law enforcement, even if there are such laws, a body shop can spring up almost anywhere, not, perhaps, in the development but certainly around the edges and along the approaches, usually not until after the developer has gone.

[moneyshot]

I think an important skill is to be able to estimate what a development will look like 5-10 years from now.

Most definitely, I don't want to be stuck in an old, badly maintained estate 10 years down the road.

Let's take Sivalai. I don't know it other than from the website. Now, the MAXIMUM plot size is 100 sq wa. There's many much smaller plots. So that means right then and there that this will be (or remain) a higher end development; don't get me wrong, it looks VERY GOOD value for money. Land and house prices are very reasonable. But with a bunch of 50'ish Sq wa plots in there, and noting that it's well beyond the Third Ring, it inevitably means some below-middle class people will go in, encouraged by the loans & mortgages on offer. Also, I looked at their biggest house which they say is 4 bedrooms. Looking at the floor plan though I see just three bedrooms upstairs. So that makes it all very very average. A higher level development needs several houses that are much bigger.

The Land and Houses development has 9 separate estates within the compound of varying age, some as old as 15 years. One of the newer areas in the compound, 'Nuntawan' is the most exclusive, with a separate pool and sauna area. The overall feel and look of the area is very nice, probably the best I have seen (not that I have seen too many), The streets are very green with hedges on the road side of the fences and lots of mature trees about. The houses range from 6.5 to 24 million. The build quality is very good compared to what I have seen elsewhere.

Note what happens when all plots are sold (everywhere): the developing company then transfers the maintenance & care taking costs to an owners collective / foundation. So the owners as a group will then make sure the pool remains clean and the gate staffed with security, and so on. If you're not in a higher level moo ban, that effectively means the whole thing ceases to remain a 'serviced gated community'. The gate will remain empty, it becomes just like if you did not buy in a commercial development.

This has been a concern of mine. My thinking was the 'better' moo baans would have some sort of protocol in place. Companies like Land and Houses have many developments all over Thailand and many completed so I guess they are being maintained, maybe they still manage the body corporate for the estate, Im not sure but will find out soon.

I think to have a chance to have owners rich enough and with enough responsibility to make that step towards keeping the service level up (or improving it, even) means that the MINIMUM plot size should be 100 sq wa, preferably with many houses being sitting on larger plots than that.

I would think the more expensive the house prices in the development, the better chance of people wanting to maintain the moo baan, but not a guarantee.

Comments?

[moneyshot]

I think an important skill is to be able to estimate what a development will look like 5-10 years from now.

Sure many a new development looks very nice. But if you want this to remain a top development even after all the plots are sold, you need to look further.

Let's take Sivalai. I don't know it other than from the website. Now, the MAXIMUM plot size is 100 sq wa. There's many much smaller plots. So that means right then and there that this will be (or remain) a higher end development; don't get me wrong, it looks VERY GOOD value for money. Land and house prices are very reasonable. But with a bunch of 50'ish Sq wa plots in there, and noting that it's well beyond the Third Ring, it inevitably means some below-middle class people will go in, encouraged by the loans & mortgages on offer. Also, I looked at their biggest house which they say is 4 bedrooms. Looking at the floor plan though I see just three bedrooms upstairs. So that makes it all very very average. A higher level development needs several houses that are much bigger.

Note what happens when all plots are sold (everywhere): the developing company then transfers the maintenance & care taking costs to an owners collective / foundation. So the owners as a group will then make sure the pool remains clean and the gate staffed with security, and so on. If you're not in a higher level moo ban, that effectively means the whole thing ceases to remain a 'serviced gated community'. The gate will remain empty, it becomes just like if you did not buy in a commercial development.

I think to have a chance to have owners rich enough and with enough responsibility to make that step towards keeping the service level up (or improving it, even) means that the MINIMUM plot size should be 100 sq wa, preferably with many houses being sitting on larger plots than that.

Comments?

Good points certainly, especially on thinking how an estate will look in 5-10 years once the developers bugger off. But it also depends on the residents. In Sivalai 3's case the residents have already started having monthly meetings (separate from the developer) to discuss how things are progressing and any important issues. IF this continues (yes, big IF ), i would forsee in 5-10 years that most of us would chip in a few hundred Baht a month to support some security lads and maintenance... I dont know if this already happens in any other estates that are older? Anybody know?

On plot size, yes max size is 100 talang wah, but quite a few residents have bought 2 or more plots, meaning some are 150-200 talang wah, which is a decent size. The estate have also provided some special plots for larger custom-designed houses at the front, providing the chance for 4-5 bedrooms designs.

So yes, agree with your points... but i'm hoping Sivalai may buck the usual trend. Eternal optimist i know!

Sounds promising that the residents are already having meetings concerning the estate, hopefully it will continue.

[moneyshot]

As I have previously posted, I live in an older Sivalai Development, completed about 4 years ago. Once the developer moved on to Lampang, the various phases of the development met and a couple of the newer phases elected to break off from the project as a whole and to hire a security guard for their "gate", just a shack and sliding partition. To get there you travel through the old gate where the sleeping guard shack was located (now unattended) and drive through some unsightly real estate to get to their "gate".

That is interesting. Were the other residents not concerned with upkeep and security. One of the main reasons to live in a 'gated community' is for security.

I am in the phase that was finished just before the break away phases and our monthly maintenance fee is now 100 Baht and it is for street lights and garbage, no security guard. I detect no difference in the overall appearance of the development since break away, but then we have no common area facilities such as pools etc.

How about with the general cleaning of the streets and trimming of common garden areas?

The deterioration of developments is a Thai thing in my opinion, as is the deterioration of condos for all to see.

Many of the older moo baans I have seen are very ugly and badly in need of some paint etc.

In the newest breakaway phases, one house was recently painted bright orange yellow with green trim and it really looks awful. How can that be stopped since the juristic rules aren't enforced even if they have color controls. Likewise, many Thais add lean-to like structures to their houses, right up to the property line, usually of "do it yourself" quality construction. Terrible eye sores, as are the untrimmed foliage sticking way out into the street. The over ten year phase since construction seems to be blighted by this the most so far.

Unfortunately there seems to be no control over the general upkeep and appearance of individual houses, with ugly extensions taking up an entire plot right to the road or poor choice of house colours. If your neighbours decide to paint their house with ugly and out of place colours, it definitely detracts from your house and would make it very hard to sell at a later date

I have always been attracted to the Spanish model of home where the house surrounds an interior courtyard, where a pool resides if desired and outside living occurs, all protected from the outside world by the four walls of the house. I would suggest such a layout to anyone building in Thailand so they internalize their living style rather than externalize it. Then they just have to ignore all they see until they enter their attached garage.

An ideal design, great privacy too.

After all, even in the most prestigious community, an owner can choose to use exterior spaces for "storage" of all manner of things, usually unsightly. Many Thais choose to hang their laundry out in their front gardens or over their perimeter fences when their houses face west. Can't do anything about that either. Even if a far sighted developer banned such activities, as they do often in the West, there is no enforcement in Thailand of juristic regulations that I have seen.

You cannot choose your neighbours. I see loads of junk about in peoples front yards which detracts the entire area. The condo I lived in Bangkok had rules about hanging clothes on the balcony railings, which surprisingly was enforced.

[moneyshot]

I have been thinking about property value with the estates. In 10 years time, will you be able to sell your house for more than it cost now?

With so many new developments and houses being built, buying second hand doesn't seem like an option. I have noticed in some moo baans, properties for sale that are 4 years old, asking the same price if not more, than brand new identical homes in the same estate. You would be mad to pay more for something the same, but already lived in.

When will the prices go up? When the building stops, but when will that be? If you live in a desirable moo baan that is already finished and full, then will the property prices rise?

Would buying a plot of land somewhere not inside a gated development and building a house, increase in value more?

I am not thinking to buy and sell quickly, I want to have a comfortable family home to live in for some time, but I would like to think that in 10 or 20 years that we would be able to sell the property for considerably more than we paid for it.

Any thoughts on this?

[Liquid Soul]

I have been thinking about property value with the estates. In 10 years time, will you be able to sell your house for more than it cost now?

With so many new developments and houses being built, buying second hand doesn't seem like an option. I have noticed in some moo baans, properties for sale that are 4 years old, asking the same price if not more, than brand new identical homes in the same estate. You would be mad to pay more for something the same, but already lived in.

When will the prices go up? When the building stops, but when will that be? If you live in a desirable moo baan that is already finished and full, then will the property prices rise?

Would buying a plot of land somewhere not inside a gated development and building a house, increase in value more?

I am not thinking to buy and sell quickly, I want to have a comfortable family home to live in for some time, but I would like to think that in 10 or 20 years that we would be able to sell the property for considerably more than we paid for it.

Any thoughts on this?

We have just finished a three day tour of Chiang Mai housing developments with a view to a move there with a lovely young Thai/Oz couple, and were very impressed with the Quality House development, although many of the houses did seem to be unlived in which gave the whole area an eary feel to it.

I would have to agree that Nuntawan in Land & House has a very special feel to it, and would certainly be near the top of our wish list!!

[Larry]

For a suburban feel in the middle of the city, try mooban Nantawan. It's located right off Nimmanhaemin, with tree-lined streets and a feeling of about 30 years ago. As soon as you walk through the gate, there is an incredible sense of calm. Even the air is fresher. I sit in my sala in the morning with my daughter, waiting for her school bus. A wonderful mixture of well-educated, English-speaking Thais and nice, stable farangs. We have all the restaurants, art galleries and entertainment of Nimmanhaemin combined with the feel of the country. We dont even need to buy a car, or pay gas, or think about parking. And it's very safe too. Houses are about 4 million and up. No cookie-cutter houses...everyone is different. This was Land and House's very first project.

We love it so much, not only did we buy a house in this mooban, but have a 10 year lease on another house here, which we rent by the month. You are welcome to come over for coffee anytime you want.

Larry Abramson

Edited March 18, 2008 by Larry

[moneyshot]

Larry,

Thank You kindly for the offer.

Ill be sure to drive past and have a look. I kind of like being a little distance out of town.

[Gravelrash]

For a suburban feel in the middle of the city, try mooban Nantawan. It's located right off Nimmanhaemin, with tree-lined streets and a feeling of about 30 years ago. As soon as you walk through the gate, there is an incredible sense of calm. Even the air is fresher. I sit in my sala in the morning with my daughter, waiting for her school bus. A wonderful mixture of well-educated, English-speaking Thais and nice, stable farangs. We have all the restaurants, art galleries and entertainment of Nimmanhaemin combined with the feel of the country. We dont even need to buy a car, or pay gas, or think about parking. And it's very safe too. Houses are about 4 million and up. No cookie-cutter houses...everyone is different. This was Land and House's very first project.

We love it so much, not only did we buy a house in this mooban, but have a 10 year lease on another house here, which we rent by the month. You are welcome to come over for coffee anytime you want.

Larry Abramson

Thats quite an old moobaan without any facilities is it not? No doubt old style construction to boot. It wouldn't be that as you are trying to flog a house on this forum that you describe it like a sales brochure?

[Bill97]

I have been thinking about property value with the estates. In 10 years time, will you be able to sell your house for more than it cost now?

With so many new developments and houses being built, buying second hand doesn't seem like an option. I have noticed in some moo baans, properties for sale that are 4 years old, asking the same price if not more, than brand new identical homes in the same estate. You would be mad to pay more for something the same, but already lived in.

When will the prices go up? When the building stops, but when will that be? If you live in a desirable moo baan that is already finished and full, then will the property prices rise?

Would buying a plot of land somewhere not inside a gated development and building a house, increase in value more?

I am not thinking to buy and sell quickly, I want to have a comfortable family home to live in for some time, but I would like to think that in 10 or 20 years that we would be able to sell the property for considerably more than we paid for it.

Any thoughts on this?

Monday March 17, 2008 Barrons Online article titled "A 16-Year Housing Slump? It Could Happen" might give you some idea.

From that article about the US housing market:

"The inflation-adjusted average price of an existing home peaked in 1979, didn't bottom out until 1984 and didn't return to the 1979 level until 1995. In other words, real home prices went nowhere for 16 years."

Do you know any reasons why Thailand could not have a similar or worse experience? If you think so, take a close look at the property prices of 1996-1997 and see how they compare to today's prices on actual sales for the same properties?

[p1p]

The OP might like to have a look at World Club Estate. The house prices have recently fallen due to problems with the management and Grace School, which owns the World Club Sports Club and swimming pool. Management had been taken over by the owners of properties on the estate and they are taking action to have the sports club returned to their control.

The house prices should rise steeply again when the current difficulties are sorted out.

[moneyshot]

I have been thinking about property value with the estates. In 10 years time, will you be able to sell your house for more than it cost now?

With so many new developments and houses being built, buying second hand doesn't seem like an option. I have noticed in some moo baans, properties for sale that are 4 years old, asking the same price if not more, than brand new identical homes in the same estate. You would be mad to pay more for something the same, but already lived in.

When will the prices go up? When the building stops, but when will that be? If you live in a desirable moo baan that is already finished and full, then will the property prices rise?

Would buying a plot of land somewhere not inside a gated development and building a house, increase in value more?

I am not thinking to buy and sell quickly, I want to have a comfortable family home to live in for some time, but I would like to think that in 10 or 20 years that we would be able to sell the property for considerably more than we paid for it.

Any thoughts on this?

Monday March 17, 2008 Barrons Online article titled "A 16-Year Housing Slump? It Could Happen" might give you some idea.

From that article about the US housing market:

"The inflation-adjusted average price of an existing home peaked in 1979, didn't bottom out until 1984 and didn't return to the 1979 level until 1995. In other words, real home prices went nowhere for 16 years."

Do you know any reasons why Thailand could not have a similar or worse experience? If you think so, take a close look at the property prices of 1996-1997 and see how they compare to today's prices on actual sales for the same properties?

Interesting...

Have you any idea where you could find accurate real estate sales history?

[moneyshot]

The OP might like to have a look at World Club Estate. The house prices have recently fallen due to problems with the management and Grace School, which owns the World Club Sports Club and swimming pool. Management had been taken over by the owners of properties on the estate and they are taking action to have the sports club returned to their control.

The house prices should rise steeply again when the current difficulties are sorted out.

Thanks for the tip.

How confident are you that the facilities will return to the estate's control?

Also, are there still new houses for sale and is there a sales office onsite? Or is it a matter of driving through looking for, 'sale' signs?

[p1p]

How confident are you that the facilities will return to the estate's control?

I am advised by my lawyers and others who are closely involved in the case that the law is firmly on the side of the estate householders. Please see the Grace School thread.

Also, are there still new houses for sale and is there a sales office onsite? Or is it a matter of driving through looking for, 'sale' signs?

There are new houses, "previously lived in" houses and some plots of land available for building. There is certainly a management office onsite.

I would take issue with a previous poster regarding new vs second-hand houses. I would personally only ever either build a house myself, or at least oversee every step of the construction process - or purchase a previously lived in house where I could see if any faults were beginning to surface. Too much building work is of an extremely slapstick and shoddy nature here, you are safer to purchase a house that is still standing some five to ten years after it was completed. If you find a well built home, all you should have to budget then will be cosmetic.

[moneyshot]

How confident are you that the facilities will return to the estate's control?

I am advised by my lawyers and others who are closely involved in the case that the law is firmly on the side of the estate householders. Please see the Grace School thread.

Also, are there still new houses for sale and is there a sales office onsite? Or is it a matter of driving through looking for, 'sale' signs?

There are new houses, "previously lived in" houses and some plots of land available for building. There is certainly a management office onsite.

I would take issue with a previous poster regarding new vs second-hand houses. I would personally only ever either build a house myself, or at least oversee every step of the construction process - or purchase a previously lived in house where I could see if any faults were beginning to surface. Too much building work is of an extremely slapstick and shoddy nature here, you are safer to purchase a house that is still standing some five to ten years after it was completed. If you find a well built home, all you should have to budget then will be cosmetic.

Thank you p1p.

I will add it to the list of moo baans to check out.

[Gravelrash]

I, and others I know, have either purchased non-moobaan land or houses. The rationale is for others is that they buy large plots and build the house properly; I bought in the city and will re-develop my house later. Generally moobaans are poorly built on postage stamp blocks of land, often with next door a metre away. Also some older moobaan have fallen into serious disrepair deflating their property values.

A guard asleep on the gate does not offer security, likewise I know of one upmarket moobaan that has had theft problems. My home has the other residents on the lookout for those that don't belong, and seems to work well. I read of others posters that lost their moobaan facilities and will definitely see a price slump.

I pay 20 baht per month for garbage and that is it, bore water here is free. No 400+ baht per month moobaan payments.

Take your time and think it through, every poster will extoll his moobaan to feel that he made the right decision. Likewise anyone showing property usually has an angle like a kick-back from the moobaan for delivering the customer. Believe or not, up to you...

[moneyshot]

I, and others I know, have either purchased non-moobaan land or houses. The rationale is for others is that they buy large plots and build the house properly; I bought in the city and will re-develop my house later. Generally moobaans are poorly built on postage stamp blocks of land, often with next door a metre away. Also some older moobaan have fallen into serious disrepair deflating their property values.

A guard asleep on the gate does not offer security, likewise I know of one upmarket moobaan that has had theft problems. My home has the other residents on the lookout for those that don't belong, and seems to work well. I read of others posters that lost their moobaan facilities and will definitely see a price slump.

I pay 20 baht per month for garbage and that is it, bore water here is free. No 400+ baht per month moobaan payments.

Take your time and think it through, every poster will extoll his moobaan to feel that he made the right decision. Likewise anyone showing property usually has an angle like a kick-back from the moobaan for delivering the customer. Believe or not, up to you...

Thanks Gravelrash, I appreciate the post.

There certainly is much to think about with regards to what the moo baan will be like in 10 years time, as it will effect the property value. I have thought about buying land and building, but it seems like it could be a headache. Do you think a private house will increase in value more than a property on an estate?

Since we are a young family, I do like the idea of living in an estate for the community, security and peace of mind for the kids to play in a safe environment.

Edited March 22, 2008 by moneyshot

[RAZZELL]

For a suburban feel in the middle of the city, try mooban Nantawan. It's located right off Nimmanhaemin, with tree-lined streets and a feeling of about 30 years ago. As soon as you walk through the gate, there is an incredible sense of calm.

Is there a website?

RAZZ

[p1p]

I, and others I know, have either purchased non-moobaan land or houses. The rationale is for others is that they buy large plots and build the house properly; I bought in the city and will re-develop my house later. Generally moobaans are poorly built on postage stamp blocks of land, often with next door a metre away. Also some older moobaan have fallen into serious disrepair deflating their property values.

A guard asleep on the gate does not offer security, likewise I know of one upmarket moobaan that has had theft problems. My home has the other residents on the lookout for those that don't belong, and seems to work well. I read of others posters that lost their moobaan facilities and will definitely see a price slump.

I pay 20 baht per month for garbage and that is it, bore water here is free. No 400+ baht per month moobaan payments.

Take your time and think it through, every poster will extoll his moobaan to feel that he made the right decision. Likewise anyone showing property usually has an angle like a kick-back from the moobaan for delivering the customer. Believe or not, up to you...

Thanks Gravelrash, I appreciate the post.

There certainly is much to think about with regards to what the moo baan will be like in 10 years time, as it will effect the property value. I have thought about buying land and building, but it seems like it could be a headache. Do you think a private house will increase in value more than a property on an estate?

Since we are a young family, I do like the idea of living in an estate for the community, security and peace of mind for the kids to play in a safe environment.

Having had houses both in the Moo Bahn and outside, adjacent to a village, my comparison is as follows.

The home outside the Moo Bahn had many aesthetic benefits over my current Moo Bahn home. We had much more land and were bounded on two sides by rice fields. The house was nicer too. However that was offset by lack of security. We were burgled more times than I can remember. If we went out or away, we had to get family or pay somebody to house sit 24/7.

In the ten years since we have been in our Moo Bahn, we have yet to be burgled, although I am sure this post is asking for trouble!

In the Moo Bahn here, there have been some thefts from other houses than ours. Almost all were immediately solved, culprit caught and property returned. All culprits were working in the estate on constructing new houses.

I would much prefer to have my old home - but for peace of mind, I would never move back.

[moneyshot]

For a suburban feel in the middle of the city, try mooban Nantawan. It's located right off Nimmanhaemin, with tree-lined streets and a feeling of about 30 years ago. As soon as you walk through the gate, there is an incredible sense of calm.

Is there a website?

RAZZ

Razz, it is an old moo baan so no website.

The company Land and Houses who built it have a website. - lh.co.th - although it is all in Thai.

[moneyshot]

I, and others I know, have either purchased non-moobaan land or houses. The rationale is for others is that they buy large plots and build the house properly; I bought in the city and will re-develop my house later. Generally moobaans are poorly built on postage stamp blocks of land, often with next door a metre away. Also some older moobaan have fallen into serious disrepair deflating their property values.

A guard asleep on the gate does not offer security, likewise I know of one upmarket moobaan that has had theft problems. My home has the other residents on the lookout for those that don't belong, and seems to work well. I read of others posters that lost their moobaan facilities and will definitely see a price slump.

I pay 20 baht per month for garbage and that is it, bore water here is free. No 400+ baht per month moobaan payments.

Take your time and think it through, every poster will extoll his moobaan to feel that he made the right decision. Likewise anyone showing property usually has an angle like a kick-back from the moobaan for delivering the customer. Believe or not, up to you...

Thanks Gravelrash, I appreciate the post.

There certainly is much to think about with regards to what the moo baan will be like in 10 years time, as it will effect the property value. I have thought about buying land and building, but it seems like it could be a headache. Do you think a private house will increase in value more than a property on an estate?

Since we are a young family, I do like the idea of living in an estate for the community, security and peace of mind for the kids to play in a safe environment.

Having had houses both in the Moo Bahn and outside, adjacent to a village, my comparison is as follows.

The home outside the Moo Bahn had many aesthetic benefits over my current Moo Bahn home. We had much more land and were bounded on two sides by rice fields. The house was nicer too. However that was offset by lack of security. We were burgled more times than I can remember. If we went out or away, we had to get family or pay somebody to house sit 24/7.

In the ten years since we have been in our Moo Bahn, we have yet to be burgled, although I am sure this post is asking for trouble!

In the Moo Bahn here, there have been some thefts from other houses than ours. Almost all were immediately solved, culprit caught and property returned. All culprits were working in the estate on constructing new houses.

I would much prefer to have my old home - but for peace of mind, I would never move back.

Thanks for sharing your opinion of living on both sides of the fence.

I have been told by few people, that Chiang Mai has a high rate of burglaries. Having a big plot of land with a house of your design and away from the neighbours is great, but unless you are going to hire your own security team, it is never going to be safe.

Edited March 23, 2008 by moneyshot