Expatriates Continue To Rank Singapore As The Top Place To Live In Asia

[thedude]

"Four Floors" is like going to Villa Market but limiting yourself to the stuff they are trying to liquidate because it's nearing its sell-by date (only not exactly the same because it's 2-3 times pricier than the fresh stuff). Doesn't even compare to HK where at least they have S141.

You must be looking at different stuff on the shelves to myself

Or you must be easily pleased

I agree with Heng, except to say that the product on offer, in the main, is PAST its sell by date

Beleive me I am not easily pleased - far from it

Ther may be a few old hags come down from Thailand at the end of their career but in the main there is a lot of very nice PRC, Viet and Flippers about.

There is a market for every product. There are guys who apparently think the bars at Nana, Cowboy, Patpong (AND Four Floors apparently), are full of fresh talent. Quality wise (of which age is only one component), IMO one never finds it as good as at the source, whether you're talking about gals from Shanghai, Saigon, Manila, or Prague. Now if we're talking about SG gals, sure, Singapore is the best.

i may have to disagree with you on that one Heng. in my last few years in Bkk many of the prettiest girls of the ahem, entertainment industry, that i have come across have spent some time in Sg, so many in fact that it hardly surprises me anymore to hear of their varied experiences. the vast majority of them do not do the "4 Floors", but are on more private arrangements involving agents and hotels, either that or they do the volume business at Geylang....its the easiest way for them to make a quick couple of million baht and retire back to their home town and open a salon or whatever.

i have come across many who wish to go but did not "make the grade" because the agents are very particular due to the high level of competition from China, Vietnam, and elsewhere...if they aren't sure of the turnover potential, they won't take the risk of taking them over to Sg, so only the best looking make it across.

this observation checks out with many of my friends from Sg, mostly professionals in finance and law, who used to come here quite often, but they are now generally less enthusiastic about entertainment in Bkk due to other options when they travel and also because, according to them, they get more variety in Sg and even the Thai's there are better looking. i suppose the 4 Floors is a bad representation of what is actually out there in Sg. i have seen some bizarrely beautiful women there in the Karoake scene, like 6 ft tall northern Chinese with green eyes, supermodels from Hanoi, statuesque songstresses from Guangdong...you get the picture.

[Prakanong]

"i may have to disagree with you on that one Heng. in my last few years in Bkk many of the prettiest girls of the ahem, entertainment industry, that i have come across have spent some time in Sg, so many in fact that it hardly surprises me anymore to hear of their varied experiences. the vast majority of them do not do the "4 Floors", but are on more private arrangements involving agents and hotels, either that or they do the volume business at Geylang....its the easiest way for them to make a quick couple of million baht and retire back to their home town and open a salon or whatever."

Yes if you have ever come across the Sammyboy" forums (strange place) a lot of Thai girls seem to do that volume market in Geylang and are booked morning to night for days at a time in their hotel room.

I do know one Thai girl who at only 22 used to bring younger girls down (shw was a bit of a looker herselfand last time I lookedther was a large picture of her in Walking Street) but she dropped them at 4 floors and went out to the likes of Brics herself but was always checking up on her brood (who she fleeced)

"this observation checks out with many of my friends from Sg, mostly professionals in finance and law, who used to come here quite often, but they are now generally less enthusiastic about entertainment in Bkk due to other options when they travel and also because, according to them, they get more variety in Sg and even the Thai's there are better looking. i suppose the 4 Floors is a bad representation of what is actually out there in Sg. i have seen some bizarrely beautiful women there in the Karoake scene, like 6 ft tall northern Chinese with green eyes, supermodels from Hanoi, statuesque songstresses from Guangdong...you get the picture. "

And often cheaper in Sg actually taking the whole package into account

Edited March 13, 2008 by Prakanong

[johnh101]

I also think sing is a boring place - PERIOD!!

Have you actually ever been there ?

If I presume you have, you must be an extremely interesting person (not) if you cannot find something to do in Singapore.

Edited March 13, 2008 by johnh101

[JacknDanny]

"Four Floors" is like going to Villa Market but limiting yourself to the stuff they are trying to liquidate because it's nearing its sell-by date (only not exactly the same because it's 2-3 times pricier than the fresh stuff). Doesn't even compare to HK where at least they have S141.

You must be looking at different stuff on the shelves to myself

Or you must be easily pleased

I agree with Heng, except to say that the product on offer, in the main, is PAST its sell by date

Beleive me I am not easily pleased - far from it

Ther may be a few old hags come down from Thailand at the end of their career but in the main there is a lot of very nice PRC, Viet and Flippers about.

There is a market for every product. There are guys who apparently think the bars at Nana, Cowboy, Patpong (AND Four Floors apparently), are full of fresh talent. Quality wise (of which age is only one component), IMO one never finds it as good as at the source, whether you're talking about gals from Shanghai, Saigon, Manila, or Prague. Now if we're talking about SG gals, sure, Singapore is the best.

i suppose the 4 Floors is a bad representation of what is actually out there in Sg. i have seen some bizarrely beautiful women there in the Karoake scene, like 6 ft tall northern Chinese with green eyes, .....

....................................big hands, big feet and answers to the name of Jimmy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve2UK]

Well, most of it seems to have been said already (Asia Lite, any number of "No x-ing $xxx fine" signs, great if you have the money and like Chinese etc) - so I'll just add a couple of anecdotes that sum up SG for me.

1] During a scuba holiday on Sipadan, I was having one of the usual chats (where are you from? where are you going next? etc) with a couple of middle-aged, middle-class fellow-divers. I said I was going to KL then BKK/Chiang Mai - possibly stopping off for a few days in Singapore. "Singapore? My God - why do you want to go there? It's just like a big hospital!". How true - and, ironically enough, this came from a Swiss couple........

2] I had a friend in SG with whom I used to chat on the 'phone from London occasionally (pre-Skype etc). He called his telco to query the phone bill - he thought there were a couple of extra calls on it that he thought he hadn't made. He gave his name, phone number and the dates of the calls to the operator. "Hold the line please, sir".......... Ten seconds later he heard a replay of a section of one of the calls . Operator comes back on the line: "Is that your voice in that call, sir?". It was. "Would you like to check the other call, sir?". No thanks.

Now, we're all full of wonderment at the "wired" society and what it can do - but think about what it takes to be able to do what that operator did and ask yourself whether you're happy with the idea? For myself, I'll take shambolic Thailand - no matter how many cyber-police laws they pass, we know that they just don't have and won't get what it takes to enforce them.

P.S. One last memory I'll pass on. While sitting with some SG mates at an outdoor cafe, I noticed a gang of orange-clad people cutting grass, tidying up (never much of that to do in SG!) etc. My mates told me that they were doing community service as a result of various infringements of which they'd been found guilty. This prompted me to ask why I saw so few police around - given that there are all those signs telling you what you must/mustn't do and what the fines are.......... how did people get caught doing/not doing those things? "Oh" came the answer, "we don't need police for that - the citizens do all the reporting".

Edited March 13, 2008 by Steve2UK

[Captain Chaos]

Keep hearing all these stories about the 'wired society', internet blocking, phone taps etc etc etc .... personally I've still never had access to a website blocked, including foreign newsies like BBC, CNN etc etc ... dunno about phone taps but have to point out that (1) virtually all of the population has a mobile (2) getting a pre-paid SIM card at any time is hardly onerous (just turn up at a 7-11 with your passport to get a legit one, or just buy a dodgy one from some street vendor at Cairnhill like I did and (3) there are soooooooooo many tourists and other foreign visitors here at any given time ... think the SG govt has really bugged all of these?

Still, makes for a good pub story, eh?

[Prakanong]

All phone calls in pre-Skype days recorded eh?

How much as hard drive then?

Take a <deleted> lot of memory to record all calls in and out of a country and save them to pull up at any time at all.

Urban myth or someones pulling your leg?

[mrtoad]

Of course there's no censorship in Thailand, or infringement of human rifghts.

Half the people that cook up these stories about S'pore have either not been there or have had 3 day, 2 night package with Air Asia.

As for the CWO's in the orange suites, can't see what the problem with that. If you abide by the law, then you'll have no problems, same as in any country, just that Singaporeans take a lot more responsibility for it, shame that doesn't rub off in other socities were people will walk on by, while someone is getting therehead kicked in by a bunch of Chavs.

[Loom]

Censorship relates to certain topics like criticism of the government, religion and race. But the environment has become more tolerant lately by allowing performances (plays) and web blogs with critical angles on the government.

Censorship rules have been pretty effective at keeping several ethnic and religious groups living side-by-side without overt friction. There is some underlying tension and no-one is barred from speaking his mind in private. But public displays, which could get out of hand, are banned with good effect so far.

In the public housing market there are racial quotas (no segregation). That probably makes it more difficult for the them against us mentality from developing.

[PhilHarries]

Seems to me that there are a lot of people on this forum who judge the quality of a place by the quality of the, ahem, "working girls".

Nothing wrong with that of course, it could actually save these pollsters money so instead of sending out questionaires they just troll around Nana Plaza, Orchard Towers etc etc.

Personally I've not spent enough time in Singapore to reach any firm conclusions about the place. Like everywhere it has it's good points and it's bad and each individual has to make a judgement. For me if the choice were Singapore or the UK the deal for Sing would have to be real cr@p for me to take the alternative. But if the choice were Sing or Bangkok I'd have to think a bit about which way I'd go, there being no clear front runner.

[Steve2UK]

All phone calls in pre-Skype days recorded eh?

How much as hard drive then?

Take a <deleted> lot of memory to record all calls in and out of a country and save them to pull up at any time at all.

Urban myth or someones pulling your leg?

Pre-Skype as in before I started using it - four years ago.

How much hard drive? Not a lot with compression - ask the NSA (they've been doing it for decades).

Urban myth or leg-pulling? First-hand account from tame Singaporean with no reason to fabricate.

[Steve2UK]

Of course there's no censorship in Thailand, or infringement of human rifghts.

Half the people that cook up these stories about S'pore have either not been there or have had 3 day, 2 night package with Air Asia.

As for the CWO's in the orange suites, can't see what the problem with that. If you abide by the law, then you'll have no problems, same as in any country, just that Singaporeans take a lot more responsibility for it, shame that doesn't rub off in other socities were people will walk on by, while someone is getting therehead kicked in by a bunch of Chavs.

I'm not here to promote Thailand; like most, I just accept the conditions of being here for what they are.

No problem with the CWO's in the orange suits - wish there was more of that in the UK......... not that I'm much bothered by what happens there now. Come to that, I wish Thailand made more use of the community service penalty. My point was about the small number (judging by visibility) of police relative to the multitude of fine-able offences. Coming from the UK with neighbourhood watch, CCTV etc, I fully appreciate the value of civic responsibility etc - and am happy that my Thai neighbours and I know each other well enough to challenge anyone they think is a stranger/intruder and up to no good.

It's about where you draw the line. How about you get in your car after a drink or three and/or go five kph over the limit. OK to shop you or better to stop you?

[Steve2UK]

dunno about phone taps

You do now.

[ade100]

dunno about phone taps

You do now.

If my service provider really want to record my phone calls, quite frankly I don't care. As I am not a drug dealer, terrorist or murderer and I am not plotting a revolution at the moment, I doubt they will find the calls very interesting.

The positive side of this control is that we have almost no crime and we have Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and many other faiths living happily together. There are mosques, churches and temples all on the same street. No problem at all. Compare this to the Southern states of Thailand.

Also compare phone tapping to the Thai approach to combatting drugs - shoot first, ask questions later.

I know which system I prefer.

[wanderer9020]

been her for 6 years, but never had a close singaporean friend, Theyre threatened by ur talent, they think that ur getting their job. Nahh, two more years and Im off to Thailand especially that my rental now doubles just waht I paid a month ago.

Come here and save, then go somewhere else

And please, dont RETIRE here, IM begging.....

[Steve2UK]

dunno about phone taps

You do now.

If my service provider really want to record my phone calls, quite frankly I don't care. As I am not a drug dealer, terrorist or murderer and I am not plotting a revolution at the moment, I doubt they will find the calls very interesting.

The positive side of this control is that we have almost no crime and we have Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and many other faiths living happily together. There are mosques, churches and temples all on the same street. No problem at all. Compare this to the Southern states of Thailand.

Also compare phone tapping to the Thai approach to combatting drugs - shoot first, ask questions later.

I know which system I prefer.

Great - you & SG seem made for each other.

[Prakanong]

dunno about phone taps

You do now.

If my service provider really want to record my phone calls, quite frankly I don't care. As I am not a drug dealer, terrorist or murderer and I am not plotting a revolution at the moment, I doubt they will find the calls very interesting.

The positive side of this control is that we have almost no crime and we have Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and many other faiths living happily together. There are mosques, churches and temples all on the same street. No problem at all. Compare this to the Southern states of Thailand.

Also compare phone tapping to the Thai approach to combatting drugs - shoot first, ask questions later.

I know which system I prefer.

Has he worked out the hard disk space to record over 5 million mobile lines, the mobile lines on 10's of thousands of visitors plus all the land lines

Then there is the database technology that pulled up the calls months later (remember this was pre-Skype) and very quick the exact one.

Now I am not saying its impossible but I do doubt they record absolutely every call - the paranoid USA does not even do it and just listen for key words to trigger.

[ade100]

dunno about phone taps

You do now.

If my service provider really want to record my phone calls, quite frankly I don't care. As I am not a drug dealer, terrorist or murderer and I am not plotting a revolution at the moment, I doubt they will find the calls very interesting.

The positive side of this control is that we have almost no crime and we have Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and many other faiths living happily together. There are mosques, churches and temples all on the same street. No problem at all. Compare this to the Southern states of Thailand.

Also compare phone tapping to the Thai approach to combatting drugs - shoot first, ask questions later.

I know which system I prefer.

Great - you & SG seem made for each other.

Lol. It's the honeymoon period. I'll report back next year.

[Prakanong]

dunno about phone taps

You do now.

If my service provider really want to record my phone calls, quite frankly I don't care. As I am not a drug dealer, terrorist or murderer and I am not plotting a revolution at the moment, I doubt they will find the calls very interesting.

The positive side of this control is that we have almost no crime and we have Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and many other faiths living happily together. There are mosques, churches and temples all on the same street. No problem at all. Compare this to the Southern states of Thailand.

Also compare phone tapping to the Thai approach to combatting drugs - shoot first, ask questions later.

I know which system I prefer.

Great - you & SG seem made for each other.

Lol. It's the honeymoon period. I'll report back next year.

I am in mine still as well but its lasting. - I do see things I do not like though - keeping of tables in food courts by putting down tissue or brollies, sitting on the aisle seat of the bus with the window seat empty

After I had spent less time in Thailand I used to want certain groups of Thai's to be buried in a big hole and could count 29 things I hated about the place while walking between my apartment on Wireless to the Beer Garden on soi 7.

I love visiting Thailand though

[Steve2UK]

dunno about phone taps

You do now.

If my service provider really want to record my phone calls, quite frankly I don't care. As I am not a drug dealer, terrorist or murderer and I am not plotting a revolution at the moment, I doubt they will find the calls very interesting.

The positive side of this control is that we have almost no crime and we have Muslims, Buddhists, Christians and many other faiths living happily together. There are mosques, churches and temples all on the same street. No problem at all. Compare this to the Southern states of Thailand.

Also compare phone tapping to the Thai approach to combatting drugs - shoot first, ask questions later.

I know which system I prefer.

Great - you & SG seem made for each other.

Lol. It's the honeymoon period. I'll report back next year.

Got to admire your attitude, Ade - 10/10 for that!

[Steve2UK]

Has he worked out the hard disk space to record over 5 million mobile lines, the mobile lines on 10's of thousands of visitors plus all the land lines

Then there is the database technology that pulled up the calls months later (remember this was pre-Skype) and very quick the exact one.

Now I am not saying its impossible but I do doubt they record absolutely every call - the paranoid USA does not even do it and just listen for key words to trigger.

Not sure who the "he" is meant to be? Anyhow, to clarify, what I described referred to a landline. I have and claim no knowledge of what happens with mobiles (even remembering "Squidgygate" etc). Don't get your calculators in a twist - even before 4 years ago, this was neither difficult technology nor particularly demanding in terms of capacity. What surprises me now is that so many doubt that it even could happen - let alone that it did and does.

Regarding your last point, key words actually trigger further examination through (ultimately) human monitoring. Nobody outside the NSA could/would tell you how much is actually recorded or how long it's kept. Anyhow - that's going way , so enough already.

To round this off, let me repeat that I'm not promoting Thailand vis-a-vis Singapore - nor especially knocking Singapore. My privacy and freedom matter a lot to me - hence my raising that particular issue. I look forward to my next visit to SG (but just for a week) - even more so given that I understand it's now OK to be carrying and using chewing gum!

[Prakanong]

^^I think chewing gum is OK to have but you just can not buy it without a Dr's prescription - I brought some back from Vietnam and it got all the girls in the office excited (yeah it does not take much)

As for not many police around I noticed that too - a long time expat said if trouble starts though they come out of the woodwork pretty sharpish - they got Nick Leeson quick enough for dropping his keg's!!!

It is always said it was in Harry's and people stop and point (tourists etc) but I was once in the company of a guy who swears he was there that night and it was at a bar further down the road

[Captain Chaos]

dunno about phone taps

You do now.

No, sorry, I don't 'know' - I still only have third hand hearsay from your Singaporean friend - and the locals here like to gossip about 'the man' just as much as do the Thais, Americans, Brits etc etc etc ...

... leaving that aside, my point was more that SG has become very much a 'mobile' society - lots of folks aren't bothering with landlines as the cellular coverage is pretty much 100% - and the practicality of bugging all those mobiles I would suggest is very difficult ...

CC

[mrtoad]

^^I think chewing gum is OK to have but you just can not buy it without a Dr's prescription - I brought some back from Vietnam and it got all the girls in the office excited (yeah it does not take much)

As for not many police around I noticed that too - a long time expat said if trouble starts though they come out of the woodwork pretty sharpish - they got Nick Leeson quick enough for dropping his keg's!!!

It is always said it was in Harry's and people stop and point (tourists etc) but I was once in the company of a guy who swears he was there that night and it was at a bar further down the road

PK, just to clarify, as my memory at times is not as good as the Sngaporean phone recording system, the original Harry's bar was at the back of Boat Quay? Shit my memory is really poor.

[retirednavyman]

I traveled there extensively during the 80's aboard a US Navy vessel and we would typically pull in long enough to loadout fresh fruits and vegetables and distribute them to the rest of the US Navy fleet (whichever one we happened to be accompanying at the time).

Normally we would pull in for about a day or so unless we were deploying to the Indian Ocean and then we would stay for about 3 days. My impression of Singapore was nothing but favorable, the locals were very nice people and as a US Navy representative at that time, I was always treated with kindness and respect which I always reciprocated. Singapore is a bit on the expensive side as far as daily living expenses go, but nonetheless I would have no reservations about retiring there.

Just my 2 cents

Mike

[johnh101]

The UK has the highest ratio of CCTV cameras per person in the world.

ALL UK phone calls go through the computers at GCHQ.

As long as you are not breaking the law, who cares ? These measure are there to protect the innocents and catch the guilty

Oh and anyone can buy chewing gum in Singapore, you just ask the pharmacist, it is not always on open display.

[Captain Chaos]

^^I think chewing gum is OK to have but you just can not buy it without a Dr's prescription - I brought some back from Vietnam and it got all the girls in the office excited (yeah it does not take much)

As for not many police around I noticed that too - a long time expat said if trouble starts though they come out of the woodwork pretty sharpish - they got Nick Leeson quick enough for dropping his keg's!!!

It is always said it was in Harry's and people stop and point (tourists etc) but I was once in the company of a guy who swears he was there that night and it was at a bar further down the road

PK, just to clarify, as my memory at times is not as good as the Sngaporean phone recording system, the original Harry's bar was at the back of Boat Quay? Shit my memory is really poor.

Your memory ain't that bad (but have yourself bugged anyway just in case you need to recall any details ) Harry's is right on Boat Quay itself - at the end nearest to the banks and the Fullerton Hotel, next to the Penny Black pub. They still have some pretty well known jazz acts in there if that's your bag (personally not mine).

There are Harry's all over the place now though, including one about a 2 minute walk from my office front door which is proving a bit dangerous!

CC

[Prakanong]

^^I think chewing gum is OK to have but you just can not buy it without a Dr's prescription - I brought some back from Vietnam and it got all the girls in the office excited (yeah it does not take much)

As for not many police around I noticed that too - a long time expat said if trouble starts though they come out of the woodwork pretty sharpish - they got Nick Leeson quick enough for dropping his keg's!!!

It is always said it was in Harry's and people stop and point (tourists etc) but I was once in the company of a guy who swears he was there that night and it was at a bar further down the road

PK, just to clarify, as my memory at times is not as good as the Sngaporean phone recording system, the original Harry's bar was at the back of Boat Quay? Shit my memory is really poor.

Yes - at the OUB Plaza end next door to Penny Black English Pub (which will cover its signs on Monday and become Irish for the day).

I can not remember the name of the pub further down where somebody said it really happened - it was a pick up joint though I think with lots of SPG's now long gone.

SPG - I still have not seen one and I go to all the right places - I reckon they are extinct now

[Prakanong]

I traveled there extensively during the 80's aboard a US Navy vessel and we would typically pull in long enough to loadout fresh fruits and vegetables and distribute them to the rest of the US Navy fleet (whichever one we happened to be accompanying at the time).

Normally we would pull in for about a day or so unless we were deploying to the Indian Ocean and then we would stay for about 3 days. My impression of Singapore was nothing but favorable, the locals were very nice people and as a US Navy representative at that time, I was always treated with kindness and respect which I always reciprocated. Singapore is a bit on the expensive side as far as daily living expenses go, but nonetheless I would have no reservations about retiring there.

Just my 2 cents

Mike

My Dad who recently died was in the British Merchant Navy during the 1950's and he had only good memories of the place too - I think it might have been a bit wild then.

The band at one of my favourite bar's play's a song each night which reminds me of him and Singapore.

[Captain Chaos]

SPG - I still have not seen one and I go to all the right places - I reckon they are extinct now

Go to Balaclava at Suntec - was there on Weds night and the SPG's were out in force