Its Dowry Time Again

[Malpal]

Looking for:/ sarcastic comments/bum steers, or maybe just a little real advice!!

Here is the whole story:-

My brother met his Thai wife on the internet, they fell in love and got married!!!!!!!!! Absolutely no problems, she is an angel....

Following his lead I went online and met someone who interested me.

After 4 months of internet chat I went to Thailand to meet her,.... yes the spark was there!!

After 3 days she announced that she wanted to take some of her family on a holiday as they had never seen the sea, could I help with the cost!

I was having a great time and said yes, she paid for the hotel (pretty basic) and I paid for the travel and food, in all cost me £200 for 3 days, not bad as there were 13 including me.

Many times her relatives hovered around expecting a few extras to be paid for and, many times she gently berated me for offering to pay.

On our return we got engaged, great party at her house for which i paid £300, plus gold of £750 for her status??

Now here is the crux of the matter....................

We have talked of marriage, yes I want this, so maybe I have lead the conversation.

NOW she says her family want me to pay a dowry....500,000 bhat, I said NO!!

She says she will think again, and then says, it must be 500,000 bhat!

At the same time after 14 years suddenly her business is not doing well ( she owns 2 beauty salons),

So now I have sent her £1,500 and have said I will send £200 each month

She is 42yrs Isaan, she has 3 sons, eldest is 24yrs (a complete lazy b*st*rd, waste of space) next is 22yrs(nice bloke ,works in the salon with his wife,both like to play more than work!) and last is 4yrs old reminds me of my own boys at that age.

Question:- AM I 'MUG OF THE DECADE???'

Now I genuinely want to get some real advice, please..

I seriously would like to hear from anyone who has been through this sh*t and come out the other side smiling!

[Carib]

Aa 42 year old woman with kids and a dowry of 500.000 baht is not realistic at all.

She and her family should be glad that someone will consider marying her and taking care of things, and.. believe me... by the way it sounds now already.... you are going to have to take care of a lot of things.

Do some thaivisa searching, and you wil come up with a lot about dowry/sinsod problems.

Good luck to you.

Ps. You are not the mug of the decade. ( yet)

Just take care that you will not be, put your foot down and see if love leaves the matrimonial shrine....I am sorry, but from what i have read now, it will. Try reading your own doubts as if someone else wrote them, and act accordingly.

[Thaddeus]

Question:- AM I 'MUG OF THE DECADE???'

Not yet, but you have potential.

[britmaveric]

Question:- AM I 'MUG OF THE DECADE???'

Not yet, but you have potential.

Yes and I have a feeling its coming sooner rather than later....

Remember sin sot is for show - not for them to keep.

She has been previously married and has kids - technically speaking its a one off and she's received her sinsot from her Thai husband. Not to mention her age - to be completely honest I think you are heading towards being mugged. She should be lucky anyone has interest in her.

BTW why the hurry after all you just met her face to face, marriage is a big step and your scenarios sounds like you are rushing it.

[Malpal]

Thanks all,

I think you know that I am having serious doubts already!!!

I will go for the showdown this week and let you know what happens............

Watch this space.

[2008bangkok]

Ha ha some of these Thai's really do like to bite the hand that feeds them, no need for a 500k early xmas present for the family you have already given them enough, i wouldn't even send her 200 a month thats already double what the average person earns for doing nothing..if her saloon is doing badly all of a sudden then its her problem not yours..

My mate is havin a pickle at the mo and its like i said to him they have stood on their own 2 feet okay before you meet them so why not now...

If you want my honest get back on the internet and try again..if you are already shelling out now then it aint gonna look good when you are married..

By bye issan girl you shoudlnt have been so greedy.......

[Zpete]

Looking for:/ sarcastic comments/bum steers, or maybe just a little real advice!!

Here is the whole story:-

My brother met his Thai wife on the internet, they fell in love and got married!!!!!!!!! Absolutely no problems, she is an angel....

Following his lead I went online and met someone who interested me.

After 4 months of internet chat I went to Thailand to meet her,.... yes the spark was there!!

After 3 days she announced that she wanted to take some of her family on a holiday as they had never seen the sea, could I help with the cost!

I was having a great time and said yes, she paid for the hotel (pretty basic) and I paid for the travel and food, in all cost me £200 for 3 days, not bad as there were 13 including me.

Many times her relatives hovered around expecting a few extras to be paid for and, many times she gently berated me for offering to pay.

On our return we got engaged, great party at her house for which i paid £300, plus gold of £750 for her status??

Now here is the crux of the matter....................

We have talked of marriage, yes I want this, so maybe I have lead the conversation.

NOW she says her family want me to pay a dowry....500,000 bhat, I said NO!!

She says she will think again, and then says, it must be 500,000 bhat!

At the same time after 14 years suddenly her business is not doing well ( she owns 2 beauty salons),

So now I have sent her £1,500 and have said I will send £200 each month

She is 42yrs Isaan, she has 3 sons, eldest is 24yrs (a complete lazy b*st*rd, waste of space) next is 22yrs(nice bloke ,works in the salon with his wife,both like to play more than work!) and last is 4yrs old reminds me of my own boys at that age.

Question:- AM I 'MUG OF THE DECADE???'

Now I genuinely want to get some real advice, please..

I seriously would like to hear from anyone who has been through this sh*t and come out the other side smiling!

Ya nutz, git out ASAP.

The sick buffalo will need replacing next.

Bin close myself, sad to say, but screwed me head back on proper and told "her" noway, no more.

We are still friends, but............... phewwwwwww.

Was 4 years ago.

Edited May 13, 2008 by Zpete

[rgs2001uk]

sounds like a keeper, how did you manage to unearth such a diamond ?

best get in there quick, dont know how many other guys she has online waiting for her, the good ones always go quick.

did you ask her what the 500k baht was for ?

it cant be for a dowry, so whats the reason.

another money grabbing chancer, put the loss of time energy and money down to experience and move on, drop this woman like a hot potato, you are lucky, you got off cheaply, others have had far more painful and expensive lessons.

tell her you need 100k baht for your airfare to come over again, can she please send it to your bank account.

jesus h chr**t, what the heck are you doing sending her £1500 for, and why are you sending her £200 each month.

on second thoughts maybe you came over on the banana boat.

[Malpal]

Stage one showdown now complete, yes i know this sounds like mission impossible!

Seems the 500,000b is not for her family, it is for her:-

Reason one, to keep face with her family and friends.

Reason two, she has debt on her business, (now there's a surprise) place seems to be buzzing 24/7.

Reason for Debt:-

Ex husband is a playboy and leave her many debts, fact(he is a school teacher who found a younger model) told to me by her uncle.

Her version:- He is weak man, drink and gamble much.

She will show me proof of debt with the banks, jeeez not one bank!!!!

total debt 1,500,000 b.

After much crying, her not me......

She is sorry and will pay money back to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When??? very soon she will work harder...

Truth:- she does seem to work bl**dy hard and long hours.

Fact:- She may be 42yrs, but she looks a dam_n lot younger, at least she did not lie about her age!! unless she added 10 yrs!

Fact:- Any talk of marriage is now taboo,

Fact:- Now agreed to take things much slower,

Fact:-My last 2 relationships in England involved women with huge mortgages, car loans, credit and store cards...

Now, £25k seems a pittance,........ yes, I know its a fortune in Thailand!

The sad/happy thing is now i do believe her, maybe I have lost the plot, time will tell!

As for coming over on the banana boat, made me think of The Monkeys......"Then I saw her face, now I'm a believer",

Last Fact:- She will get a surprise visit from my brother and his wife next week...............

I will keep you all posted!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jandajoy]

Stage one showdown now complete, yes i know this sounds like mission impossible!

Seems the 500,000b is not for her family, it is for her:-

Reason one, to keep face with her family and friends.

Reason two, she has debt on her business, (now there's a surprise) place seems to be buzzing 24/7.

Reason for Debt:-

Ex husband is a playboy and leave her many debts, fact(he is a school teacher who found a younger model) told to me by her uncle.

Her version:- He is weak man, drink and gamble much.

She will show me proof of debt with the banks, jeeez not one bank!!!!

total debt 1,500,000 b.

After much crying, her not me......

She is sorry and will pay money back to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When??? very soon she will work harder...

Truth:- she does seem to work bl**dy hard and long hours.

Fact:- She may be 42yrs, but she looks a dam_n lot younger, at least she did not lie about her age!! unless she added 10 yrs!

Fact:- Any talk of marriage is now taboo,

Fact:- Now agreed to take things much slower,

Fact:-My last 2 relationships in England involved women with huge mortgages, car loans, credit and store cards...

Now, £25k seems a pittance,........ yes, I know its a fortune in Thailand!

The sad/happy thing is now i do believe her, maybe I have lost the plot, time will tell!

As for coming over on the banana boat, made me think of The Monkeys......"Then I saw her face, now I'm a believer",

Last Fact:- She will get a surprise visit from my brother and his wife next week...............

I will keep you all posted!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reign back, take it slow, no committment, no money - other than immediate pass times, eating out, beer etc. Just put it all on hold. You'll be amazed at how quickly you'll be appreciated. Remember the old axiom "My way or the Hyway". It works mate.

[Thaddeus]

I am re-evaluating my original assessment.

[BFD]

As am I.

I am eager to hear more about this scenario.

BFD!

[Malpal]

Carib and BFD,

You are considering a change of opinion, BFD you did not give one!

Feel free to give one now.

I have a vision of many out there with their hands to their foreheads thinking ...What drugs is this guy on!!!

Well, I have decided to play this scenario out, at the moment she seems full of remorse, " so very very sorry, you are a good man , I am a bad woman"...."I will give you money back, I make a mistake, I think that if I tell you that i have debt you will not want to know me.....sob .....sob"

"Please do not tell my family that I have debt They think i have good business, always take care of them"

" Do not send me money, I know it troubles you much, We will take time for future together"

Any psychoanalists out there care to make a comment?

[justcruisin]

Just think you are taking things a bit fast,why take on the big family,when there are another 1,000 eligible ladys queing up behind her.

You don't have to spend a fortune to find happiness.

My lady is from issarn,parents deceased,no children and own house.(30yr old,me 50..met on the internet also)

After 2.5 years together,mostly her mind is pre-occupied about money...(unemployed accountant MBA)

Don't be easy on her,I have more than learn't my lesson.$$$$$$$$

She is VERY lucky to have you.If you set out YOUR rules early saves time down the track.

Cheers

[Carib]

She is losing you, or is afraid to lose you.

Why is she afraid? Could be..

1: She loves you. ( does she really? )

2: You are the hen with the golden eggs.

3; A combination of the above

4: She knows she wil not ever have a Thai guy anymore

A woman of her age with kids, and a not doing so well business is not the catch of the century for a Thai guy, otherwise it would have happened already. Think about that !!

She is trying to make you understand her, by telling you the reasons for lying: The shops are doing bad, or could do better, she in in debt and she doesnot want the family to know because they depend on her. Or... is she trying to avoid the fact that you could ask questions to her family?

The dependant part.. wil be a part of your future too, the family will depend on you.... it is the Thai way, and very difficult to make them understand that you think different about that.

The ones with money in the family are the social security for the rest of the family.

Would you tell the government to keep your pension??

Neither will Thai ladies, except that you will be their government. Already you have been asked for money, with lies what it was for.

It could even go as far as that a whole family turns against you more or less, because you are a cheap charly in their eyes. We all know that all westerners have truckloads of money, donot we ?, so why doesnot he dish out???

She sobs, will pay you back, will not accept any more money because you have a problem with that and so on and so on.... It `Could be` very smart long term investment behaviour. Not accept anything now, or even paying something back, will make you all mellow and .......she has got it made.

If we accept other traits of Thai woman that we do like... we will also have to accept this !

It is a part of Thai life. That doesnot mean that i think it is allways bad, mind you. It has to do with survival sometimes.

Look at the lenght some Thai woman go, to take care of their family they will do anything for that even sell their body`s . A whole industry thrives on it in Thailand. And a lot of families are dependant on that.

Westerners will absolutely not understand why. We we will see other solutions, like: Let the rest of the family get of their lazy asses and do something themselves !!!.

No, they will not, because it is the Thai way, they will not even say it out loud, it is not done !

Even if, a Thai person will say something like that to you, they will still not tell their family, and sometimes consider themselves a bad person for talking negative about lazy brothers or sisters parents/ whatever. ( usually it is lazy men by the way) .

It doesnot happen everywhere, i know, but it happens a lot.

Can you understand this?? I cannot, but I can accept, why can I ? Because i am not in your shoes.

These are just examples of the way of thinking we will not grasp, or have a hard time with, we would do it in a different way! Forget your way, is is not the Thai way !

Now i do realise i am talking about someone you have feelings for, but the above scenario is not unthinkable. Can you think of another one??

Westerners seem to think that everybody has got a universal ( western) way of thinking and living and behaving. All woman around the world will have the same way of reacting to things or will show love in the same way.

Forget it. In Thailand it is very different, mix it with the concept of "losing face" and you will be in for all kind of surprises. Never a dull day, which can make it all very pleasant and nice, unless you get in trouble because of it.

Not understanding these things is a disadvantage by itself. Will we ever understand ? or just stop thinking and accept...i donot know, sometimes it is very hard to do so.

A lie is not a lie in Thailand, and whatever you do, to proof that it is a lie...... Forget it !!. You are trying to proof it western style, so it is not applicable. Ask the opinion of another Thai person, and they wil disagree with you too, they will stick together most of the time.

Sofar she has lied, even her family contradicts her about her ( ex) husband, and what happened, and where the debt came from. If she is in trouble moneywise, there is no need to hide that, everybody will just know already, few secrets are kept in Thai society, especially in more rural parts of the country.

Do you understand anything about Thailand yourself, how many books, sites or whatever have you read about the subject. There are so many sites on the net with so many simular stories about guys in your position. And they all have the same problem, they all think "universal". And.... think with the wrong head too, if you know what i mean !

We all talk about the asian lifestyle, but when in asia we accept that the language is different, housing is different, food is different, people even smell different, but we donot accept that the way of thinking is different too !!.

I suggest you read books, sites whatever, try to understand and get rid of your western way of thinking, well.. you know what i mean, otherwise you will not `survive`. Even now you must realise that there are things you cannot grasp, otherwise you wouldnot be here on a public forum asking for opinions. Smart move by the way, at least you are trying to get a better understanding.

You are going to have to accept more than you will be willing to understand maybe. Not just with Thai woman but Thai life in general. It is not the western world thank gowd. But if you cannot handle it it will be difficult.

Was this helpfull? Mmmm i donot really think so, you have a lot of answers already, you are looking for confirmation i think.

Whatever you do, take it slow, keep a healthy part of distrust in the back of your mind, donot send money anymore, tell them you ran into a problem, and see what happens. So far they have survived without you, and will keep on doing that. Donot start feeling responsible for them, because you are not!. Throwing in lots of money is not the answer. In most cases it will just make everybody sit down in a more relaxed way and go down the raod to buy a new honda dream, and than asking for money....to buy fuel !

Now disregard all of the above when you are too much in love.....( just telling you that i do understand) but in order to STAY in love, i would do some more soulsearching and do some reading. Become "Thailandwise".

Thailand is not Blighty as i have seen one of your fellow country man write. I have never been there, but it sounds funny and there is something what tells me that ..... well never mind.

The disclaimer here is that i painted the black side, and overdone some things and they will not be the same for everybody, but sometimes overdoing it to make an impression helps.

English mistakes will have been made, it is not my language, but you will get the general idea.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Pack and run. No forwarding address.

[MISTERBONK]

Bet you wish you never had a computer!

[macduff]

Quit while you've got money left

[Zpete]

Dowry just a scam, if insisted with, give the fingers and skeddadle.

[Juzrelax]

What if you meet a Thai girl in your home country, move her in and plan to get married. I’m thinking ahead a bit here but it's worth tossing the idea around.

Can the sinsot thing be offset by saying that the tradition here is for the bride's parents to pay for the wedding, but to make it all fair we won’t ask for any money for the wedding but in lieu of that there will be no dowry?

I’m sure I will come across like a tightarse, but that’s not too far from the truth so I don’t mind.

The sinsot has been mentioned and I replied with "that's nice, but it's not going to happen, I work for my money & I expect others to do the same" We’re still together so I like my chances thus far!

...If I can make a suggestion to the op, harden up a little & have the intestinal fortitude to say NO!

[MISTERBONK]

She's 40+ (well past her Thai sell-by date)

She's got 2 adult kids

Been married before - likely received a dowry.

And now she (and/or family) have the cheek to DEMAND a dowry - not even a small one but 500K!!

As others have said she should be grateful that a man wants to look after her, and so should her family. Typical greedy Thai's!

This is very clearly a no dowry situation. There is no way a Thai man would pay for a 2nd hand old wife with kids!

Get out before you get in too deep

[Carib]

The OP has already stated that the amount stated was not a dowry, but for her to try to get rid of some debt.

[thetravellingcat]

To paraphrase from the paperback book "the Fool is Back!" by Neil Hutchinson basically one chapter goes on about how most relationships/marriages between foreigners and Thais ends soon after a large amount of cash has been parted with. As with other comments I too agree she is "getting on" even by Thai standards. £200 is a large amount of money, are you prepared to keep this up indefinitely? Month in Month out? Who else does she communicate with online? Do other guys send her money?

The book also suggested that the best candidate to marry would be an orphan.

Think about that for a minute or two. I highly recommend you get a copy of that book and some of his other ones.

Keep a healthy air of skepticism about you and treat everything (well most things!) as "lies-till-proven-fact". I would like to know what happens when your brother and his wife pays her a visit!

[Malpal]

Honeymoon is over!!!!

Got to admit, starting to feel a bit better.

Thanks guys without you I would have thrown a lot of money away,

Thanks guys without you I would be very happy!!!!!

Now who knows what is best!!

Maybe she will send back my money, not very likely is it?

Great quote, It is up to you, if you not pay sinsot, goodbye.I love you.

I know you have good job, make much money, "sob" why you treat me this way?

I would like to thank all of the reprobates who gave their best advice, cheers guys,

I OWE YOU!!!

[Carib]

It must hurt, but i am sure you gave it thought and reached the right conclusion. Good luck

[zaza]

are credit cards accepted or just Western Union & cash are the preferable methods?

BTW; how could a (woman) knows what is her "value" in the re(lation/al estate) market?

Edited May 21, 2008 by zaza

[Thaddeus]

BTW; how could a (woman) knows what is her "value" in the re(lation/al estate) market?

It's tattooed on the back of the neck.

[zaza]

BTW; how could a (woman) knows what is her "value" in the re(lation/al estate) market?

It's tattooed on the back of the neck.

I think you are "wrong" here for two reasons :

1st: I could not turn my head and see the back of my neck.

2nd: I called my mother and she told me I don't have it and I was not tagged(tattooed) when I was born(made) cause she thinks I am "epigone" of her and not a genuine( brand of a woman)

[koheesti]

Question:- AM I 'MUG OF THE DECADE???'

You and tens of thousands others who come to Thailand and fall for the same ol' ____.

Maybe I got a different visa application than most of you because I didn't see anything about having to leave my brain at border before entering Thailand.

[Thaddeus]

BTW; how could a (woman) knows what is her "value" in the re(lation/al estate) market?

It's tattooed on the back of the neck.

I think you are "wrong" here for two reasons :

1st: I could not turn my head and see the back of my neck.

That's why it's up to the girls closest friends to tell her how much she is worth. ')