Culinary Racism (by Thais Against Farangs)

[Jingthing]

You really need to take a step back and realise where you are in mindset. These are really small bait items you are concerning yourself with.

This is massively condescending. I don't suffer from culture shock at all. I live in Pattaya. I am not in shock here and never was. I make the same complaints about Chinese restaurants in my home country. So I guess I was culture shocked there also? However, I do think anyone who seriously believes many Thai people are not very racist against many groups of non-Thais has their head in the sand. That is kind of a bigger subject I don't really intend to open here. However, I would find it hard to take seriously anyone who isn't observant enough to acknowledge this dark reality.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[Prakanong]

You really need to take a step back and realise where you are in mindset. These are really small bait items you are concerning yourself with.

This is massively condescending. I don't suffer from culture shock at all. I live in Pattaya. I am not in shock here and never was. I make the same complaints about Chinese restaurants in my home country. So I guess I was culture shocked there also? However, I do think anyone who seriously believes many Thai people are not very racist against many groups of non-Thais has their head in the sand.

I fully accept Thai's can be horribly racist and have seen and heard it hundreds of time from all levels of Thai society.

However, I am not being condescending regarding culture shock - you would not be the first or the last

"Rejection

The next phase of Culture Shock Syndrome is referred to as the period of Rejection. This stage is marked by criticism, resentment, and anger. When an individual sets out to study, live or work in a new country, he or she will invariably experience difficulties with language, housing, friends, schoolwork, and understanding the idiosyncrasies of the local culture, often resulting in frustration. The Rejection period can be triggered by the realization that, as an outsider in a new culture, language or misunderstandings of cultural cues can often make the simplest task seem like a daunting challenge. Furthermore, because the high expectations set during the Honeymoon Period appear much farther out of reach, the individual feels disillusioned.

Regression & Isolation

The extreme letdown experienced during the Rejection Period prompts the individual to become critical of his new environment–of the people, their culture, and of all the perceived differences with the culture at home. This letdown often propels an individual into the stage of Regression & Isolation. In this stage, the culture from which the individual has come is idealized. For example, an Italian student studying in the U.S. for a semester may indiscriminately view his Italian university, past experiences or friendships as superior, regardless of any problems inherent to those relationships. The student risks further isolation from the new environment. Symptoms exhibited during this period include anxiety, sadness, homesickness, and anger. These feelings manifest themselves in changes in behavior: inappropriate anger over slight delays and minor frustrations, changes in sleep patterns, compulsive eating and/or drinking, irritability, poor concentration, and unexplainable crying. The stage of Rejection and Regression is variable in length but can last up to 6-8 weeks."

[Jingthing]

Not only condescending but entirely OFF TOPIC. Your little cut and paste has nothing to with me. Cheers.

[Prakanong]

Not only condescending but entirely OFF TOPIC. Your little cut and paste has nothing to with me. Cheers.

Bullseye

[guava]

There is no defense for this widespread IGNORANCE by Thai restaurants. You can attack me for pointing it out, but it is them who are showing prejudice against us.

Objection #1 - as other have pointed out, and you stubornly and IGNORANTLY continue to ignore - there is a quite reasonable defense for them doing it.

Objection #2 - I do not believe this is anywhere near as widespread or severe a problem as you melodramatically state. If you find a place that does this regularly, and they won't amend the practise for you personally, vote with your feet and eat elsewhere. How hard can it be? Do not expect them to change their practise for every other farang customer. IF they are doing this (at their inconvenience) there must be a historical reason for it.

Objection #3 - the use of the word racism in simply inappropropriate - they are not doing it because they hate you, though I do see how that situation could arise if you behave in real life the same way you behave here.

I do find most foreign restaurants in western countries do dumb down their food to a significant agree - they simply wouldn't do this if it wasn't good business, and the market didn't demand it. The average westerner by default would not be able to eat (nevermind enjoy) anything anywhere close to the spiciest, hottest, sweetest, saltiest, stinkiest, just-plain-weirdest Thai, Indian, Chinese, Greek, or whatever, hence they adjust the dishes over time to appeal to the broad market. If I sound like I'm stating the obvious - it's because I am stating the obvious.

[Prakanong]

There is no defense for this widespread IGNORANCE by Thai restaurants. You can attack me for pointing it out, but it is them who are showing prejudice against us.

Objection #1 - as other have pointed out, and you stubornly and IGNORANTLY continue to ignore - there is a quite reasonable defense for them doing it.

Objection #2 - I do not believe this is anywhere near as widespread or severe a problem as you melodramatically state. If you find a place that does this regularly, and they won't amend the practise for you personally, vote with your feet and eat elsewhere. How hard can it be? Do not expect them to change their practise for every other farang customer. IF they are doing this (at their inconvenience) there must be a historical reason for it.

Objection #3 - the use of the word racism in simply inappropropriate - they are not doing it because they hate you, though I do see how that situation could arise if you behave in real life the same way you behave here.

I do find most foreign restaurants in western countries do dumb down their food to a significant agree - they simply wouldn't do this if it wasn't good business, and the market didn't demand it. The average westerner by default would not be able to eat (nevermind enjoy) anything anywhere close to the spiciest, hottest, sweetest, saltiest, stinkiest, just-plain-weirdest Thai, Indian, Chinese, Greek, or whatever, hence they adjust the dishes over time to appeal to the broad market. If I sound like I'm stating the obvious - it's because I am stating the obvious.

Your well argued rational posit will not make a jot of difference to the hissy fit of OP - he is beyond rational discourse on this and other issues such as baht buses at this moment in his life

[ludosiam]

It's unbelievable that people living in Thailand are feeling they're insulted by getting not enough spices with their food! When my wife, born in Isaan travels with me she usually doesn't like the Thai food, for example in Bangkok as it's not what she would get back home, would this be a discrimination against Isaan people then?

[steveromagnino]

It's unbelievable that people living in Thailand are feeling they're insulted by getting not enough spices with their food! When my wife, born in Isaan travels with me she usually doesn't like the Thai food, for example in Bangkok as it's not what she would get back home, would this be a discrimination against Isaan people then?

Yes.

The other day someone said 'hello' to me on the skytrain. They presume to think I am unable to speak Thai.

How racialist.

I fink it's cause I is a multilingamist.

[madjbs]

Can someone send Jingthing a virus or something? Hopefully we might be able to stop him polluting the internet with complete rubbish for even just a short amount of time.

[cobra]

Can someone send Jingthing a virus or something? Hopefully we might be able to stop him polluting the internet with complete rubbish for even just a short amount of time.

If only it was that easy,

He's one of TV's hemorrhoids, you don't notice him until he flares up again,

[Jingthing]

It's unbelievable that people living in Thailand are feeling they're insulted by getting not enough spices with their food! When my wife, born in Isaan travels with me she usually doesn't like the Thai food, for example in Bangkok as it's not what she would get back home, would this be a discrimination against Isaan people then?

It is unbelievable that so many people can't seem to get my basic POINT.

If your Isaan wife doesn't like Central Thai food, in Bangkok she can go to an Isaan food restaurant. When she goes there, without asking for anything special, because of her RACE, she will be served standard Isaan food. Now if a farang goes there and just orders, he might get the standard or he might not. In defense, he might say give it to me extra spicy or kon Thai or chao Isaan style. Why should a person have to make a special request based on his skin color to get the SAME food? Also, in my experience, asking for it spicy in DEFENSE of being served dumb food (which of course I quite often do) frequently results in getting food much more spicy than the default spicy, but you often have to ask for it anyway or risk being served farang crap version. I can eat hot and spicy food hotter than any Thai I have ever met, but I would really like the dishes to be cooked appropriately for their spice level based on the specific dish. Some dishes are meant to be super hot, some medium hot, etc, To repeat again, sorry ad nauseum, it is not always even a matter of spice, it is sometimes even a matter of getting an entirely different dish based on your race. I am not saying this is a issue of the century. I am saying it is annoying and indeed insulting to be racially stereotyped.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Can someone send Jingthing a virus or something? Hopefully we might be able to stop him polluting the internet with complete rubbish for even just a short amount of time.

You do not have to read it.

do find most foreign restaurants in western countries do dumb down their food to a significant agree - they simply wouldn't do this if it wasn't good business, and the market didn't demand it. The average westerner by default would not be able to eat (nevermind enjoy) anything anywhere close to the spiciest, hottest, sweetest, saltiest, stinkiest, just-plain-weirdest Thai, Indian, Chinese, Greek, or whatever, hence they adjust the dishes over time to appeal to the broad market. If I sound like I'm stating the obvious - it's because I am stating the obvious.

Yes, and foodies avoid such insulting restaurants like the plague or sometimes go to the bother of training them to cook the food the right way. However, as we are in Thailand, it is reasonable to expect Thai restaurants to cook Thai food in the style that Thai people would like, and if the whitey can't take it, there is always KFC. But you can't escape the dumbing down even when you move to the country, again, due to race, and sorry folks, it ain't right.

Perhaps, this thread should have been in the food section, because really it seems only people who care about food more than as body fuel are even beginning to get my point.

Edited May 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[HS Mauberley]

[JetsetBkk]

You really need to take a step back and realise where you are in mindset. These are really small bait items you are concerning yourself with.

This is massively condescending. I don't suffer from culture shock at all. I live in Pattaya...

You should try moving somewhere where there are a lot of tourists. Pattaya is far too rural.

[Prakanong]

You really need to take a step back and realise where you are in mindset. These are really small bait items you are concerning yourself with.

This is massively condescending. I don't suffer from culture shock at all. I live in Pattaya...

You should try moving somewhere where there are a lot of tourists. Pattaya is far too rural.

Loud and proud - "I live in Pattaya"

LOL -I can not say what I would really like to on the board

You have to ask why he lives in Pattaya if it irks him so much - the food, the baht bus and the Thai's?

We know the answer but can not say it here!

[Naam]

It is unbelievable that so many people can't seem to get my basic POINT.

your point might have been taken and accepted Jingthing. you spoiled the party by using the expression "racism"

[Prakanong]

It is unbelievable that so many people can't seem to get my basic POINT.

your point might have been taken and accepted Jingthing. you spoiled the party by using the expression "racism"

Naam - you live close to little miss hissy fit - take him out and see the racim in action - bit no baht bus - 1 thing at a time!

Do Klingons water down food for Ferenghi?

[LooseCannon]

I live in Pattaya.

Famous the world over for fine dining, often referred to as a 'foodie's paradise'.

"I am talking about regular places where regular Thai people and some expats go."

"To make the IGNORANT ASSUMPTION that just because a person has white skin, that they will prefer dumbed down food, is not a favor."

There's a good chance that they have had previous experience with disgruntled farangs & decided to err on the side of caution.

You say this...

"I never said it happened all the time. It happens sometimes. I can't quantify it with a percentage really."

Then later on this....

"If there was not rampant prejudice, ignorance, and sometimes culinary racism going on..."

Surely if this behaviour was so rife you would be able to quantify these instances of "rampant prejudice, ignorance, and sometimes culinary racism"

The only things rampant in Pattaya have absolutely nothing to do with prejudice, ignorance or culinary racism.

Please keep your hands on the table at all times. Thank you.

[ludosiam]

Jingthing, I believe I got your point, although I have to admit that I don't suffer from this proble as I live in rural Isaan. What I can't understand is that people feeling insulted by different cooking style for farangs. Don't you thing this could be because restaurants have learned from previous incidents happened? Restaurants do try to cater to their customers in the best possible way (usually) and I'm sure they do not try to insult us by putting less chilli in the pot.

[ovenman]

You have to ask why he lives in Pattaya if it irks him so much - the food, the baht bus and the Thai's?

Because it's cosmopolitan:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=157799

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=149127

[Prakanong]

You have to ask why he lives in Pattaya if it irks him so much - the food, the baht bus and the Thai's?

Because it's cosmopolitan:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=157799

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=149127

I thought that was a girlies magazine

I hear its Metrosexual too!

[Jingthing]

Yes, I am happy to live in Pattaya as it is without question the most cosmopolitan city in Thailand.

[Jingthing]

I hate to say it but I think there is some reverse discrimination happening. There are many restaurants with two menus, and the differences go beyond translating the language. No, there are different items, and most non-asians are never given the chance or order beyond the usual kung pao and fried rice. I'm sure it's hard to satisfy everyone but I don't think chinese restaurants in this area give non-asians enough credit for being able to decide for themselves if they want to try something new.

Just to demonstrate the issue I raise is a huge issue with Asian food foodies in the US and UK. I am not making it up. It is also an issue for us in Thailand. Bash on, but it is bloody REAL, whether you admit it or not.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate...p;entry_id=8143

Methinks some of you are getting too hung up on the semantics. If you get different treatment because of your RACE, something is seriously NOT RIGHT.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Jingthing

[Naam]

It is unbelievable that so many people can't seem to get my basic POINT.

your point might have been taken and accepted Jingthing. you spoiled the party by using the expression "racism"

Naam - you live close to little miss hissy fit - take him out and see the racim in action - bit no baht bus - 1 thing at a time!

Do Klingons water down food for Ferenghi?

i invited him once to my house to share a good bottle of wine with me but he declined. at that time i thought he was quite witty...

[Jingthing]

i invited him once to my house to share a good bottle of wine with me but he declined. at that time i thought he was quite witty...

Well I may not be the most witty expat in town (Hello Weho!), but I have done wonders for the phrase: "culinary racism"

Google it with quotes and this thread shows up numero uno.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Jingthing

[onzestan]

i invited him once to my house to share a good bottle of wine with me but he declined. at that time i thought he was quite witty...

Well I may not be the most witty expat in town (Hello Weho!), but I have done wonders for the phrase: "culinary racism"

Google it with quotes and this thread shows up numero uno.

And that's all that really matters to you isn't it?

Being noticed. You must be a very lonely person.

cheers

onzestan

[samran]

Yes, I am happy to live in Pattaya as it is without question the most cosmopolitan city in Thailand.

just as poipet is the cultural centre of cambodia.

[guava]

i invited him once to my house to share a good bottle of wine with me but he declined. at that time i thought he was quite witty...

Well I may not be the most witty expat in town (Hello Weho!), but I have done wonders for the phrase: "culinary racism"

Google it with quotes and this thread shows up numero uno.

If by "done wonders for" you mean "completely misunderstood and made an absolute fool of myself using" then congrats - job done!!

It's ironic that most people seem to consider "culinary racism" (if they'd even heard the silly expression before) to mean racist and insulting statements or behaviour directed against a nationality's cuisine (eg "I wouldn't eat that XXXX sh1t if you paid me", "those XXXX only use chilli/curry to cover up rotten meat", "it's all sh1t on a stick" etc etc) whereas you have applied almost the opposite meaning and made yourself the victim. Culinary Racism by Thais Against Farangs..... Revolutionary genius? The jury is clearly out.

Perhaps ironic is not the right word to describe trolls. But I do so hope this is not a troll, JingT really is this cracked, and we can expect more of the same mad rantings to come. By the way, I think JingT needs a catch phrase like Ice T's "Yo Ease lets do this" or Mr T's "Pity the foo!". Something hip that speaks! Maybe something like "It's cosmopolitan babyyyy!" (think Conan O'Brien or Austin Powers)?? Then the "Pattaya. Pattaya. Pooying lub you maak maak" song in the background. Too much? Just ideas......

Yes I know in some twisted convoluted way he could rationally argue that culinary racism (as defined by everyone else) is somehow historically indirectly responsible for the situation he finds himself in - but he probably won't. I'm predicting he'll come out will something else completely outlandish. Either way, the important thing is that it'll be good for a laugh. And by "laugh" I mean "thought provoking debate" of course.

Edited June 2, 2008 by guava

[Jingthing]

And, Guava, that is what I was after here, thought provoking debate, as opposed to the typical personal bashing of anyone who brings up and defends a controversial point of view. Carry on, boys.