Jomtien Imm: Subsequent Retirement Extensions

[Jingthing]

OK, this is a very specific question, so if the criteria do not apply to you, it will not be to the point.

Here are the criteria:

1. on a retirement extension already

2. have already done their FIRST retirement extension

3. have used the bank account qualifier ONLY, no pension, no combo (800K baht)

4. have gone for a SUBSEQUENT retirement extension and have NOT seasoned the money for 3 months before your meeting

5. brownie points for transferring in the money a few days or weeks before the appointment

Has anyone met these criteria and tried this? Successful or not?

I along with a number of others have been told that the 3 month money seasoning is NOT required for subsequent retirement extensions IN JOMTIEN, using the 800K baht bank account method.

However, I know of not one poster who has reported trying this, successfully or not.

Please let us know if you have done this. (PM if you want to keep your privacy; I will not share your identity).

Cheers! I hope we can learn from this.

[Jingthing]

Nobody?

[sweetchariot]

I don't have direct experience, but I have read somewhere that people have done it successfully. You will probably get a mixed bag of answers, and I think that your success will depend on many factors such as the mood of the immi officer, the phase of the moon, and the prevailing wind.

If you haven't moved the money in time, then you don't have much choice but to give it a go, smile alot, and be confident. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[Jingthing]

I don't have direct experience, but I have read somewhere that people have done it successfully. You will probably get a mixed bag of answers, and I think that your success will depend on many factors such as the mood of the immi officer, the phase of the moon, and the prevailing wind.

If you haven't moved the money in time, then you don't have much choice but to give it a go, smile alot, and be confident. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Thanks. But to be clear, I and a number of other of people have already been clearly told that luck has nothing to do with it!

We were told THERE IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for subsequent extensions (as detailed in the OP) at immigration.

I was told in plain English: ONLY THE FIRST TIME. (First extension.)

But naturally, people are still shy about trying this out in real life, even when they are told in advance there is no problem doing so whatsoever. Thus, the post, seeking real life reports.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Jingthing

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

I have posted about this before, and you have responded to my post as well (around middle of Feb this year). But I shall repeat for the slow learners:

Expiry of first extension: 9 March 2008.

Money transferred in (>800K): 3 December 2007 (balance before that: 103K).

Applied for and got 2nd extension: 14 February 2008. Money then in account (>800K) around 10 weeks, i.e. less than 3 months. But if previous usage/withdrawal patternd followed, >800K would have been be in the account on the EXPIRY DATE.

I do not see the point of trying to cut it so fine that if unlucky, you have to start again. Instead, I make sure I have the money in the account for > 3 months. Each to his own.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

[Jingthing]

OK, that is a case, but not a case of a just before the meeting transfer.

You don't see the point of transferring later? Well, obviously not for you, but consider the multiplicity of personal circumstances out there. Well, how about a cash flow situation? How about a crashing stock market? I am sure many people have many reasons why they don't want to tie up their money any earlier than they are REQUIRED to.

Anyway, thanks muchly for that refresher. BTW, in offices where this rule is enforced, I do not believe the EXPIRY date is relevant in any way. The timing is based on the APPOINTMENT date, yes?

In any case, your case is suggestive that what many of us has been told is indeed the reality, at Jomtien.

But it would be good to hear of more cases, and of cases where the transfer was done closer to the appointment date.

Edited June 22, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Please forgive this bumping of this topic. So far, nobody has really posted who has had an experience (pro or con) that meets the criteria of the question. As it is a very specialized question, perhaps more exposure will reveal such a person.

[astral]

If you have not touched the 800K then what are you living on?

That is the question the Immigration officer is going to ask..............

[frankrimmer]

If you have not touched the 800K then what are you living on?

That is the question the Immigration officer is going to ask..............

I'm supposing it would be acceptable to have a couple of accounts, one for your 800k that could remain untouched for renewal/extension purposes and another just for day to day living?

Frank

[lopburi3]

It has been accepted.

[dotcom]

I don't have direct experience, but I have read somewhere that people have done it successfully. You will probably get a mixed bag of answers, and I think that your success will depend on many factors such as the mood of the immi officer, the phase of the moon, and the prevailing wind.

If you haven't moved the money in time, then you don't have much choice but to give it a go, smile alot, and be confident. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Thanks. But to be clear, I and a number of other of people have already been clearly told that luck has nothing to do with it!

We were told THERE IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for subsequent extensions (as detailed in the OP) at immigration.

I was told in plain English: ONLY THE FIRST TIME. (First extension.)

But naturally, people are still shy about trying this out in real life, even when they are told in advance there is no problem doing so whatsoever. Thus, the post, seeking real life reports.

Here's a novel idea & one you may not have thought of. Go over to the immigration office take a number queue up & ask them.

Of course second hand info & bullshift may be what you are after.

[dotcom]

If you have not touched the 800K then what are you living on?

That is the question the Immigration officer is going to ask..............

It's really none of their business. But keep the word "ATM card" in reserve for a witty retort.

[Jingthing]

I don't have direct experience, but I have read somewhere that people have done it successfully. You will probably get a mixed bag of answers, and I think that your success will depend on many factors such as the mood of the immi officer, the phase of the moon, and the prevailing wind.

If you haven't moved the money in time, then you don't have much choice but to give it a go, smile alot, and be confident. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Thanks. But to be clear, I and a number of other of people have already been clearly told that luck has nothing to do with it!

We were told THERE IS NO SUCH REQUIREMENT for subsequent extensions (as detailed in the OP) at immigration.

I was told in plain English: ONLY THE FIRST TIME. (First extension.)

But naturally, people are still shy about trying this out in real life, even when they are told in advance there is no problem doing so whatsoever. Thus, the post, seeking real life reports.

Here's a novel idea & one you may not have thought of. Go over to the immigration office take a number queue up & ask them.

Of course second hand info & bullshift may be what you are after.

I did. I already posted that I did.

But what you are TOLD at one point in time by one officer does not necessarily predict actual real life experiences of people ACTUALLY doing it (and of course the more RECENT the more useful the info). Not ASKING about it. We have had several reports of people ASKING about it and being TOLD it is OK, but where are the reports of people actually doing it? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough for you? Thus, the post seeking ACTUAL EXPERIENCES. I am happy to have provided you the opportunity to be nasty today. I am sure you feel better. Cheers.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

If you have not touched the 800K then what are you living on?

That is the question the Immigration officer is going to ask..............

This is not even close to the TOPIC of this thread. The topic is about transferring the TOP OFF money less than 3 months from the extension appointment date.

[dotcom]

I did. I already posted that I did.

But what you are TOLD at one point in time by one officer does not necessarily predict actual real life experiences of people ACTUALLY doing it (and of course the more RECENT the more useful the info). Not ASKING about it. We have had several reports of people ASKING about it and being TOLD it is OK, but where are the reports of people actually doing it? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough for you? Thus, the post seeking ACTUAL EXPERIENCES. I am happy to have provided you the opportunity to be nasty today. I am sure you feel better. Cheers.

Wrong. When you go there to discuss it they will hand you a piece of paper stating the requirements, in English. Then you'll know.

I get it you are looking for a shortcut (as are 98% of TV posters). So should you choose to ignore the WRITTEN REQUIREMENTS then that is 100% your responsibility.

[Jingthing]

I did. I already posted that I did.

But what you are TOLD at one point in time by one officer does not necessarily predict actual real life experiences of people ACTUALLY doing it (and of course the more RECENT the more useful the info). Not ASKING about it. We have had several reports of people ASKING about it and being TOLD it is OK, but where are the reports of people actually doing it? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough for you? Thus, the post seeking ACTUAL EXPERIENCES. I am happy to have provided you the opportunity to be nasty today. I am sure you feel better. Cheers.

Wrong. When you go there to discuss it they will hand you a piece of paper stating the requirements, in English. Then you'll know.

I get it you are looking for a shortcut (as are 98% of TV posters). So should you choose to ignore the WRITTEN REQUIREMENTS then that is 100% your responsibility.

So the wise oracle has spoken: WRONG.

This is a matter of interpretation and enforcement at a specific office. An office where several people including me have been told that the practice there is interpreted a somewhat different way than may be inferred from the English written materials (which are not in any way official, only the Thai version is). You may have noticed if you read this board that different offices sometimes have wildly different enforcement interpretations, some surprisingly different than you would expect. That is a large purpose of this board, to help people understand whats up for their specific situation. The paper English version is only a starting point. This has to do with actual enforcement policies and has nothing to do with SHORTCUTS. If you don't have anything relevant to add to this thread that is the actual information sought here, why do you post? It seems hostile for no good reason.

If I didn't have over 5000 posts here, I would say, get a life, but I guess that would be the black kettle speaking, oh well.

My apologies for this distraction to anyone who happens to actually be interested in the topic of the OP and might actually have something material and relevant to add to it.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Jingthing

[ignis]

If you have not touched the 800K then what are you living on?

That is the question the Immigration officer is going to ask..............

WHY would they ask this ??

I put the 800,000 in a fixed term account in March 2003, this is all I have ever shown for my yearly retirement. It is Fixed and has never been used... the letter from the Bank stating I have the account + new 2 years ago a 3 monthly statement, showning the 800,000. = shows the 800,000 was there 3 months before.

I have always taken my bank book from a different Bank + copies just incase, but have never been asked.

[JimGant]

I think the answer probably can be found in the original rationale for money in-place for 3-months:

So that a musical chairs of a single 800k pile of baht is not allowing extensions of stay for Tom, Dick, Harry, and Clyde. By insisting on a holding time of several months, this ruse can be minimized. And whether this is for the first extension -- or a subsequent renewal -- wouldn't seem to be pertinent to countering this ruse.

[Jingthing]

I think the answer probably can be found in the original rationale for money in-place for 3-months:

So that a musical chairs of a single 800k pile of baht is not allowing extensions of stay for Tom, Dick, Harry, and Clyde. By insisting on a holding time of several months, this ruse can be minimized. And whether this is for the first extension -- or a subsequent renewal -- wouldn't seem to be pertinent to countering this ruse.

I am really befuddled at some of the responses here. Yes, we understand the rationale behind the rule. The question is whether or not what immigration officers are DIRECTLY TELLING people at Jomtien (that they do NOT require the money to be in there for 3 months before SUBSEQUENT renewals is in fact the ACTUAL way they are interpreting the rule).

Here is what an officer told me about the time the money is in the bank when using 800K for subsequent renewals:

WE DON'T EVEN LOOK.

I followed up with this question: So, I could transfer the top up money in the DAY BEFORE?

Answer: YES.

So you see (one can hope), that I have a completely legitimate question here. Not a dodge or an invitation to attack the moral character of expats seeking information about specific enforcement peculiarities at specific offices. Just seeking real life clarification and proof.

It is very old news to describe the probable motivation or rationale for the rule. The ambiguous issue at Jomtien is REAL LIFE INTERPRETATION. And BTW, just because someone tops up one day before it DOES NOT FOLLOW that person is borrowing the money any more than if they topped up six months before, but again, that is not the issue here.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[jonwilly]

OK, this is a very specific question, so if the criteria do not apply to you, it will not be to the point.

Here are the criteria:

1. on a retirement extension already

2. have already done their FIRST retirement extension

3. have used the bank account qualifier ONLY, no pension, no combo (800K baht)

4. have gone for a SUBSEQUENT retirement extension and have NOT seasoned the money for 3 months before your meeting

5. brownie points for transferring in the money a few days or weeks before the appointment

Has anyone met these criteria and tried this? Successful or not?

I along with a number of others have been told that the 3 month money seasoning is NOT required for subsequent retirement extensions IN JOMTIEN, using the 800K baht bank account method.

However, I know of not one poster who has reported trying this, successfully or not.

Please let us know if you have done this. (PM if you want to keep your privacy; I will not share your identity).

Cheers! I hope we can learn from this.

I don't know if this of any help, its from the website of the Hull Thai Consulate.

" The current financial requirements are the equivalent to an income of 800,000 baht per annum

or 65,000 baht per month. Applicants who do not receive an income / pension must be able to

demonstrate that they have an amount equivalent to 800,000 baht in a bank account. Monies

do not have to be paid into or held in a Thai bank."

I am of to do my retirement visa next week and this week am chasing up any new rules regulations.

john

[jonwilly]

OK, this is a very specific question, so if the criteria do not apply to you, it will not be to the point.

Here are the criteria:

1. on a retirement extension already

2. have already done their FIRST retirement extension

3. have used the bank account qualifier ONLY, no pension, no combo (800K baht)

4. have gone for a SUBSEQUENT retirement extension and have NOT seasoned the money for 3 months before your meeting

5. brownie points for transferring in the money a few days or weeks before the appointment

Has anyone met these criteria and tried this? Successful or not?

I along with a number of others have been told that the 3 month money seasoning is NOT required for subsequent retirement extensions IN JOMTIEN, using the 800K baht bank account method.

However, I know of not one poster who has reported trying this, successfully or not.

Please let us know if you have done this. (PM if you want to keep your privacy; I will not share your identity).

Cheers! I hope we can learn from this.

I don't know if this of any help, its from the website of the Hull Thai Consulate.

" The current financial requirements are the equivalent to an income of 800,000 baht per annum

or 65,000 baht per month. Applicants who do not receive an income / pension must be able to

demonstrate that they have an amount equivalent to 800,000 baht in a bank account. Monies

do not have to be paid into or held in a Thai bank."

I am off to do my retirement visa next week and this week am chasing up any new rules regulations.

john

[Jingthing]

Thanks Jon; I am sure this basic outline will be of help to some people who happen to be applying for an initial O-A visa outside Thailand.

This topic happens to specifically be about retired expats already in Thailand, using Jomtien office, using the 800K baht in Thai bank account to qualify, and who are also PAST their FIRST such extension in Thailand. Cheers.

Different offices interpret the immigration regulations in very different ways. While general written guidelines are a good place to start, more specialized info is sometimes of great relevance for dealing with specific immigration offices/consulates/embassies.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

I don't know if this of any help, its from the website of the Hull Thai Consulate.

" The current financial requirements are the equivalent to an income of 800,000 baht per annum

or 65,000 baht per month. Applicants who do not receive an income / pension must be able to

demonstrate that they have an amount equivalent to 800,000 baht in a bank account. Monies

do not have to be paid into or held in a Thai bank."

I am of to do my retirement visa next week and this week am chasing up any new rules regulations.

john

Off topic but John do not take too much notice of the Hull website regarding Retirement Visas as most of it is wrong.

They cannot even issue O-A Visas , only the Embassy in London can.

Sorry JT for nicking your thread.

Surely there must be people renewing on a regular basis at Jontiem.

[Jingthing]

No problem. I am really sorry when I have been rather snitty (sic) here. I am just a bit frustrated about the lack of relevant feedback. I am pretty sure the SPECIFIC JOMTIEN info I seek is out there in thaivisalandia, but it has not been forthcoming.

[JimGant]

just because someone tops up one day before it DOES NOT FOLLOW that person is borrowing the money any more than if they topped up six months before, but again, that is not the issue here.

Actually, that is the issue here -- if you're trying to apply logic to the 3-month rule. And such a rule would definitely restrict a 'floating renewal fund' to <4 folks, from one that had allowed >300 annual renewals. And, the logic doesn't differ from initial to subsequent extensions of stay.

But, if such logic escapes both you and Jomtien, hey, go for it. Let us know how it works out at your next renewal. Just try and get the officer who told you he didn't care about the 3-month rule.

[Jingthing]

just because someone tops up one day before it DOES NOT FOLLOW that person is borrowing the money any more than if they topped up six months before, but again, that is not the issue here.

Actually, that is the issue here -- if you're trying to apply logic to the 3-month rule. And such a rule would definitely restrict a 'floating renewal fund' to <4 folks, from one that had allowed >300 annual renewals. And, the logic doesn't differ from initial to subsequent extensions of stay.

But, if such logic escapes both you and Jomtien, hey, go for it. Let us know how it works out at your next renewal. Just try and get the officer who told you he didn't care about the 3-month rule.

I repeat the topic is NOT about the "logic" behind the 3 month rule. The topic is about the interpretation/enforcement at Jomtien where several people have reported that they been TOLD exactly what I have been told, that the 3 month seasoning is NOT needed for SUBSEQUENT extensions, only first time ones. Are you incapable for some odd reason of separating these topics? "Logic"/rationale versus actual application? I really do not understand you or even WHY you would post on this topic. I guess you just brought me back to Snittyville. Thanks bunches.

How about this idea? How about you start a new thread where you explain exactly what is in the brains of the Thai legislators of each and every written immigration regulation as well as all the many quirky flavors of interpretation/enforcement at embassies/consulates/offices worldwide as that seems to be your area of interest and expertise. You certainly don't seem to know anything at all about the topic of this thread.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Well, I am not sure I want to be the guinea pig on this one, much as I like holidays in Malaysia.

[lekatai]

Well I can tell you from my own personal experience last week that the money does NOT have to be in the account for 3 months prior to the renewal.I renewed my retirement visa for the third time at Jomtien.I have a combination of income,(certified by letter from Barry Kenyon),and money in a Thai savings account.Although there was some money in the account for many months,I transfered 100,000B in to the account three weeks before renewal,to bring it up to the required amount.This was clear from the passbook,which they wanted to see,and they also required a photocopy of this.No mention was made of the fact that I had recently transfered the money in.Incidentally,the original letter certifying income,which I obtained from the British Embassy in BKK three years ago,was not acceptable,they said it was out of date,which is why I had to get a new one from Barry.Hope this helps

[lopburi3]

There has never been any requirement when there is an Embassy letter of pension/income. It is only when you use 800k bank deposit method alone.

[Jingthing]

Thanks muchly, Lopburi, for the clarification. I should have mentioned that point. Indeed, this is an issue ONLY for people at Jomtien doing SUBSEQUENT extensions, and also using ONLY the 800K in the bank method, with NO pension letter.

Also thanks Lekatiai, that should be helpful to some people who are indeed using the COMBO method.