What Does It Take For Thai's To Listen

[ray23]

I don't want any confusion about this, this a definetly a RANT

Things have gotten so bad around the house with people not listening it resulting in major problems.

I'll just give two examples. We were having painting done to get drop cloths down masking tape to be used was five times a day reminder. It was like following kids around finger painting. Even with that one brillant individual climbs in the a new well kept pickup with paint on thier back of thier shirt, result one ruined car seat.

Still yet start another room they don't put the drop clothes down.

There are four of us in the house in the daytime, the wife and I, the aunt and the housekeeper who has worked fro is for three years. She is normally a jewel.

Ok I've had been having to follow people around like they are children. So I sit down with them Saturday count them that four days ago. I have a very Jai Yen talk with them all explaining that being ignored when I say something had gotten very old. As nicely as one could posssibly do asked to understand that when I tell them something I have reasons and want my directions followed.

About a month ago after Auntie had been told dozen of times not to let the dogs out to watch when she opens and closes the gate. She lets one out and he chews up a neighbors dog, fortunatley it was in the street, Honestly the dog is major pest and got what it had coming. So I'm up on my soap box with everyone for days watch the dam_n gate.

So what happens today house keeper lets the dog out, he heads right for the other dog who had been tormenting him for two years and this time he goes right into the peoples yard and chews him a new ass.

How do I find out wife comes in a panic and at the top of her lungs you got to go tell the neighbor sorry. After I recovered from the shock. I was real curious why I would be apologizing to neighbor, hadn't even been out of the office.

Then I get housekeeper let the dog out and he had a fight with the other dog. Lets see I didn't a dam_n thing wrong and I'm going to apologize. No something doesn't equate here, told her to tell the houskeeper to go apologize.

I got a shirt on went over and found out what happened and told the lady to take obnoxiuos asshol_e dog to the vet and bring me the bill.

I also made it very clear that the next time someone let the dog cause they are to lazy to look before they opened a gate they were going home including Auntie.

Now here it is guys no one wants to listen till there is a problem then they have ceated and then I'm expected to solve it IE: me aplogize.

Now if something happens, goes wrong cause you didn't know somehting that is a mistake.

But if you ahve been told a 100 times and you do it anyway, that my friends is stupid behavoir.

They are all consoling the the houskeeper cause she got yelled at this time, probably the first time in three years. She has got big tears running down the cheeks the whole nine yards Why becuase the lady who she apologized had not talked nice to her at some point.

Well so what nice people or not if your wrong your wrong and there is no doubt that she was wrong.

I have honestly hit me limit on picking up the peices for Thai's that assume because you are a farrang you don't know anything, Not one of them would have a darn thing without this stupid guys help.

I'm afraid I have reached my limit on this one.

Rant over wished I drank.

[Chaimai]

Rant over wished I drank.

Drinking helps !!

I was under the impression you had been resident long enough to understand:-

Thai rak Thai

Avoid confrontation

Give money - not advice

This is done Thai stlye - Falang not khao jai.

Planning is only for Falang.

If something goes wrong, look first at Falang.

Maids take on an almost regal standing once they arrive in your house. They are always right (until a Thai actually discovers their money or property is missing)

[imaneggspurt]

Best advice i was given was ,think of them all as 5 year olds, the more i think about that it seems spot on,

[jitagon]

I don't want any confusion about this, this a definetly a RANT

Things have gotten so bad around the house with people not listening it resulting in major problems.

I'll just give two examples. We were having painting done to get drop cloths down masking tape to be used was five times a day reminder. It was like following kids around finger painting. Even with that one brillant individual climbs in the a new well kept pickup with paint on thier back of thier shirt, result one ruined car seat.

Still yet start another room they don't put the drop clothes down.

There are four of us in the house in the daytime, the wife and I, the aunt and the housekeeper who has worked fro is for three years. She is normally a jewel.

Ok I've had been having to follow people around like they are children. So I sit down with them Saturday count them that four days ago. I have a very Jai Yen talk with them all explaining that being ignored when I say something had gotten very old. As nicely as one could posssibly do asked to understand that when I tell them something I have reasons and want my directions followed.

About a month ago after Auntie had been told dozen of times not to let the dogs out to watch when she opens and closes the gate. She lets one out and he chews up a neighbors dog, fortunatley it was in the street, Honestly the dog is major pest and got what it had coming. So I'm up on my soap box with everyone for days watch the dam_n gate.

So what happens today house keeper lets the dog out, he heads right for the other dog who had been tormenting him for two years and this time he goes right into the peoples yard and chews him a new ass.

How do I find out wife comes in a panic and at the top of her lungs you got to go tell the neighbor sorry. After I recovered from the shock. I was real curious why I would be apologizing to neighbor, hadn't even been out of the office.

Then I get housekeeper let the dog out and he had a fight with the other dog. Lets see I didn't a dam_n thing wrong and I'm going to apologize. No something doesn't equate here, told her to tell the houskeeper to go apologize.

I got a shirt on went over and found out what happened and told the lady to take obnoxiuos asshol_e dog to the vet and bring me the bill.

I also made it very clear that the next time someone let the dog cause they are to lazy to look before they opened a gate they were going home including Auntie.

Now here it is guys no one wants to listen till there is a problem then they have ceated and then I'm expected to solve it IE: me aplogize.

Now if something happens, goes wrong cause you didn't know somehting that is a mistake.

But if you ahve been told a 100 times and you do it anyway, that my friends is stupid behavoir.

They are all consoling the the houskeeper cause she got yelled at this time, probably the first time in three years. She has got big tears running down the cheeks the whole nine yards Why becuase the lady who she apologized had not talked nice to her at some point.

Well so what nice people or not if your wrong your wrong and there is no doubt that she was wrong.

I have honestly hit me limit on picking up the peices for Thai's that assume because you are a farrang you don't know anything, Not one of them would have a darn thing without this stupid guys help.

I'm afraid I have reached my limit on this one.

Rant over wished I drank.

Ahhh, thanks for this! Bit of levity for the day. You feel better now?

[nidge]

Drinking helps !!

Yes it does, i've had a day a bit like yours and i'm about to open my second bottle of Leo

[mrt273nva]

Punch your painter, divorce your wife, fire the house keeper, kick the dog, and say f*** off to the neighbor.

You are the king of your house, if you give them an inch they will take a mile. I'm now having to retrain my wife and my employees because I was too "jai yen / jai dee" and was getting stepped all over. I didn't realize that I was being taken advantage of until it hit me all at once what was going on. "Jai Yen" no more. Take control if you can.

I'm still in the process of obedience training but I think it will work out for everyone in the end.

[ray23]

"Punch your painter, divorce your wife, fire the house keeper, kick the dog, and say f*** off to the neighbor.

You are the king of your house, if you give them an inch they will take a mile. I'm now having to retrain my wife and my employees because I was too "jai yen / jai dee" and was getting stepped all over. I didn't realize that I was being taken advantage of until it hit me all at once what was going on. "Jai Yen" no more. Take control if you can.

I'm still in the process of obedience training but I think it will work out for everyone in the end. "

Great minds think alike, about a what iwa thinking a few hours ago.

I got that obedience training going in the house already, darn chain pinches my neck

[Soutpeel]

Punch your painter, divorce your wife, fire the house keeper, kick the dog, and say f*** off to the neighbor.

You are the king of your house, if you give them an inch they will take a mile. I'm now having to retrain my wife and my employees because I was too "jai yen / jai dee" and was getting stepped all over. I didn't realize that I was being taken advantage of until it hit me all at once what was going on. "Jai Yen" no more. Take control if you can.

I'm still in the process of obedience training but I think it will work out for everyone in the end.

Here..Here...well said.. .went through the taking the p*ss phase myself...and stayed too jai yen for too long, one day I really the ruptured...and think then the penny dropped....they thought they where dealing with a jai yen ting tong farang..glad to say all resolved now...not once have the persons concerned even tried to take the p*ss since...

[imaneggspurt]

Punch your painter, divorce your wife, fire the house keeper, kick the dog, and say f*** off to the neighbor.

You are the king of your house, if you give them an inch they will take a mile. I'm now having to retrain my wife and my employees because I was too "jai yen / jai dee" and was getting stepped all over. I didn't realize that I was being taken advantage of until it hit me all at once what was going on. "Jai Yen" no more. Take control if you can.

I'm still in the process of obedience training but I think it will work out for everyone in the end.

Yes this is good advice, i found out the hard way that kindness is seen as a weakness and its abused and you get pushed to the edge, a side of me was seen by all that wasnt seen before, now there is some sort of respect and they know whos paying/ in charge .ME

[ozzydom]

Sorry to hear of your "bad hair " period Ray, it must be a horribilus day all round ,if I had hair long enough to grip I would have yanked the lot out today.

We have found it necessary to pump out two ponds and transfer the fish to new lodgings, one pond today and one tomorrow,we are talking 1500 fish of average 400g in todays and 2500 of similar size tomorrow.

Well ,I started pumping at 5am and the eight women we hired to pick up fish were to start at 8.30 am . They started arriving at 9am and were still dribbling in at 11am, did they start picking up fish, "no bloody way " they had to eat first,papaya salad ,grilled fish washed down with generous quantities of Lao Kao.

All the time they are feeding their faces ,me the paymaster ,is flat out with the cast nets ,trying to get some of the fish out as the water dropped and with arthritic hands it is no easy chore.

The water got down to shallow for cast netting and many fish were bellying up through lack of oxygen, so I did the lolly and flew the workers , "get off your <deleted> or we are going to lose these fish", which led to the T/W flying me with " you cant tell friends what to do".

Well dear wife, while I am paying these people for a days work I call the tune and I want them picking up fish, NOW.

Well what do they do, they get in the pond, but instead of picking up the now gasping fish, they start picking up prawns,snails etc and all the other delicacies , more words passed my lips, to the effect of do the fish first ,then you can get your goodies later.

By this time I have armed myself with a dip net and the "ladies " have the plastic laundry holders to carry the fish the 10 metres and dump them in the new pond , suddenly I find myself alone in the mud with a net full of fish looking for a carrier, and they are all sitting on the bank chatting, more words and back they come, only for me to wake up that they are only taking 1 or two fish each Lao Kao affected trip.

So we swap jobs ,I tell them "you catch ,I will carry. so at near 70 years ,here I am running through the mud with about 20 kg of fish at a trip.

Well eventually the fish got moved and while I moved equipment to the next pond ready for an even earlier start tomorrow ,they collected all the goodies they wanted ,then came a 3 hour feast and more Lao Kao .

I went down to the festivities late this afternoon to ask them to be on time tomorrow as I will start pumping earlier am. as it is a bigger pond with more than twice as many fish, only to be told that they will all be late tomorrow as the newly elected village rep is throwing a party to celebrate his election,(dont know why, as he paid them all 500 baht each to vote for him).

They all know that the fish have to be moved tomorrow owing to technical problems or we could lose the lot, but they are not prepared to let our losing about 80k worth of fish get in the way of a free party.

Then to cap off a <deleted> day the T/W catches a little blue Kingfisher in a hanging butterfly net and wanted to keep it in a little cage ,so I told her you dont cage those sort of birds and promptly let it go, I even told her of the merits she had earned for saving it and setting it free, That definately did not work and I am in deeper mud on the home front than I was in the ponds today.

And I have an even worse day coming up tomorrow, Boy, retirement to the beach in Sihanoukville is looking more of a prospect every day.

Rant over.

[ray23]

Now guys I said I was Jai Yen Saturday, truth is I have done both approaches, only difference one leaves them smiling

[ray23]

Dom your a better man then I. I would have packed and be headed to that beach on that one alone.

[steveromagnino]

just because it sounds like you guys are surrounded by dimwits (perhaps via where you live, your wife, who knows) please don't cast aspersions on all Thai people.

It kind of makes you seem like dimwits yourselves.

Not all of us are complete twits.

BTW if you treat people like idiots, they usually will not fail to disappoint you in behaving like one.

Clear priorities.

For upcountry worker types, the key thing....never give them food or incentives until the job is done right. Actually, for anyone from a Harvard MBA, NW PhD or the farmer who helps you move the fish; clear goal, good communication and clear expectations with a reward/consequence for performance.

Running a few hundred rai of rice, a few thousand rai of rubber plantation, a building/property development and a consulting company, none of them seem to run much differently.

You will get some twits. Can't help but feel that some of you lot have significant others that are causing rather than helping the problem though, especially Ozzydom. Pay is pay. expectation -turn up get the work done, and then we party.

I've never met more hardworking people than the guys at the boat yards I've worked with; willing to sand non stop for 16 hours of wet and dry (far more than most people I've ever seen) but all to do with the reward at the end.

There is however, a very big difference between being a good boss and what some here have described as 'kindness'. Any country if you are bending over, expect to get a right shafting.

Edited August 26, 2008 by steveromagnino

[Crushdepth]

We just fired our computer guy at work because he just wouldn't do what we asked. No matter how many times we asked. We have literally been asking him not to do crazy things for six years (eg. don't use the office phone number as the password to all available computer systems) but he just kept doing it anyway. To get backups (after 2 years of asking, I'm a patient guy) I eventually had to say 'give me a backup or don't come to work tomorrow because I never want to see you again'. I could talk for hours about the insane things this guy used to do. It has been something of a mystery to me as to why he insisted on behaving in such a suicidal way.

After much reflection, I have come to the opinion that they do listen. They just don't care.

[ray23]

Kind sir I would point out to you saying people won't listen is a far cry from calling them dim wits, Stupid behaivor does not translate into stupid people. Very intelliegnet people may at times exibit stupd behavior

You may be reading into what was said, but thats how life is isn't it.

You don't need to defend Thai people they do just fine on thier own.

[steveromagnino]

We have literally been asking him not to do crazy things for six years (eg. don't use the office phone number as the password to all available computer systems) but he just kept doing it anyway.

You tell him it is fine by keeping him on the payroll.

The guy would not make probation and you should have kicked him out years ago.

kindness is not the same as good management; how come there is some switch that people turn off at the airport that starts them running things in ways they never would back home?

[Merlin]

I'm reminded of the old story of the Indian mahoots and their elephants.

At night they would loosely tie a rope around one foot of each elephant and go to sleep.

A young boy noticed this one day and asked: "Those elephants are so strong, they could snap that little rope without even noticing. Why doesn't the elephant simply walk away during the night?"

The old man told him:

"when the elephant is very young, we put the rope around it's leg, and it learns to stay. It accepts that when the rope is around it's leg, it stays in that place. You must do this right from the very start. If the elephant has not learned and you try to put the rope on later, it will not work. The elephant will do whatever he likes and there will be nothing you can do about it."

whatever he likes". . .]

[dumball]

Best advice i was given was ,think of them all as 5 year olds, the more i think about that it seems spot on,

My children at 5 years of age were more than willing to help on a project , the only Thais i found that worked eficiently and responsibly were a crew of ladies digging a ditch to prevent THIER houses being constantly flooded in the rainy season . All of the talking and explaining by the NGO as to why the ditch was needed fell on completely deaf ears , change of strategy , inform them ,if they dig the ditch to my specs in one day they will recieve B200 for each of 10 ladies , this to dig a ditch FOR THIER BENEFIT . The next day they all turned up at first light , any problem and i was immediatly called to explain and what to do , by mid-day the work was very expertly completed and all 10 hands extended for payment .

Moral of the story , be precise and demanding of what is needed including how and by when , but be prepared to pay for what is to THIER benefit , most Thais i wanted help from were energetically and motivationaly disadvantaged , i.e. f33333g lazy by nature .

By the way , the drainage ditch was and still is a success .

[BSJ]

Try not to stress out so much folks....or you will end up with grey hair from all the worry before you hit 75!

[BigSnake]

I'm reminded of the old story of the Indian mahoots and their elephants.

At night they would loosely tie a rope around one foot of each elephant and go to sleep.

A young boy noticed this one day and asked: "Those elephants are so strong, they could snap that little rope without even noticing. Why doesn't the elephant simply walk away during the night?"

The old man told him:

"when the elephant is very young, we put the rope around it's leg, and it learns to stay. It accepts that when the rope is around it's leg, it stays in that place. You must do this right from the very start. If the elephant has not learned and you try to put the rope on later, it will not work. The elephant will do whatever he likes and there will be nothing you can do about it."

whatever he likes". . .]

Ray, just grin and bear it, remember TIT, This is Thailand. It could be worse, example: a lazy brother-in-law hanging around, a 30 year old step-son that think his mom, your wife owe his the world, trust me on this one your household is not so bad.

[ozzydom]

Steve raises some valid points, this was the first (and last ) time we had hired an all female crew, but as all the men are busy with their rice and rubber tapping and the job was urgent, we had to use what labour was available.

I think the fact that they were all friends of T/W made the situation worse as I think they took advantage of the situation. They have all worked for us before ,in the same capacity ,but always with their menfolk also on the job and everything has always gone smoothly.

I always try to involve our workers by having T/W explain the why,s and wherefores of the job and it was unusual to have to move so many fish (in liveable condition) so I made sure she explained the urgency of getting them into the new ponds quick as possible, but the message fell on deaf ears I,m afraid..

My male work crews know that I supply their whisky on completion of the job, but these women turned up with their own whisky ,like it was a party and not a work detail and T/W knows full well I wont tolerate them drinking while on the job.

[RubbaJohnny]

SHeartfelt sympathy my

alleged 'plumber built a shower in the guest room and laid the floor with no outlet

The Chang or Regency must be eschewed in such dire straits some fine Malt or Bushmills in emergency or Cristal if you are ahigh roller

As Adrian Croanauer said in Vietnam

never saw a whiteman in more need of a b job

As Tony Blur lied it can only get better!

Chok dee

[MiG16]

ok, Im seeing rants and thats all Im seeing

so please lets keep it that way.

those that read the posts and comments please view it with an open mind. please dont read too much into it and interpret it to be what its not

Im not reading this as thai bashing, just individual experience of frustrations.....happens also when dealing with anyone that does things different to us or how we would like to see it done)

lets keep it that way people and dont let it divert course

(MiGgy trying to be MOD with objective eyes)

[12DrinkMore]

Any country if you are bending over, expect to get a right shafting.

Loved that!

Thank you so much, it will qualify for the expression of the the year!

I will go to sleep with a smile

[12DrinkMore]

Try not to stress out so much folks....or you will end up with grey hair from all the worry before you hit 75!

<deleted>, grey hair would be GREAT! No hair left already!

[dingdongrb]

When all else fails try the following:

[Boater]

very interesting post, but one quote really stood out that i must agree on ( as discussed many times in my office)

After much reflection, I have come to the opinion that they do listen. They just don't care.

very to the point

Edited August 26, 2008 by Boater

[ray23]

Well I least one person is listening in the house even if it's just me LOL

Remeber guys I was pissed (Mad) when I wrote the first message if there were not good things as well the entire lot would have been down the road long ago. But the not listening has run its course, there won't be anymore, my fault I let them do it.

The person who said treat people like you want to be treated had never lived in Thailand. Very few Thai's I have met understand that. There is a pecking order here and Thai's protect it with all they got. Lesson learned.

The housekeeper screwed up once, really bad timing though.

Now let me tell you about the other side now that I calmed down. Between all these ladies I do nothing unless I want to. Aunte gives me physical therapy after me teaching her how to do it three to five day a week cost me a whopping 1k a week. It's the only way I can get the same thing I was getting in the states. It involves accupressure. Anyone can do it if they know the spots after 15 year I know where they are LOL Thai messages are out, they cause more problems then they solve for someone with seven screwed up discs

The guys around me paid 10K in labor to get the inside of thier houses painted. Housekeepers cousin who is a painter come over when he has no other work and paints for us at 200 Baht a day. I have two rooms to go I have spent 1100 baht in labor. Wasn't the painter that screwed up the seat it was Auntie who had brain surgery six months ago.

All my shirts are custom made with button down collar and two button pockets what I need for the bike, I buy the material and they are made for 200 baht, source housekeeper.

We had a roof leak yesterday, the houskeepers husband who is the best guy I have ever seen with Tile brought a brother who is a roofer and fixed the roof. Wouldn't take any money for it had to force them to take a 100 baht to buy a few beers.

Not one baht has ever even been touched much less taken in three years. When we leave the housekeeper and her daughters stay in the house while we are gone, They don't ask for anything but I pay them a bit for thier trouble.

She has never had a pay raise, she is paid at the standard rate here. But I did sit up a college fund for the kids after about a year 100 baht a week at a time (per child 2). These days the kids have more in the bank then the parents. Hopefully they will have a better life then thier parents. She wanted to buy a washing machine cost 7k and she was going to have to finance it, I loaned her they money she expected to pay village interest, it was interest free. I was paid back every baht. But what I do for her, she works for.

The problem comes with the wife in reality, like most couples we tune eachother out survival when you together 7/24. For some odd reason she does he laundry, wont let anyone else do it. She takes pride in being able to cook different meals, so that aspect couldn't get any better. She is my ride partner and you couldn't find a better one most times, enjoys it as much as I do. This woman is givin a household budget and unless there is a legitimate emergency she has stuck to it for years. I am never bothered about money. But, she had to learn first, she gets 50K a month from that she has to make the house payment of ten K, she pays the housekeeper not me. I do the college funds and the truck payment and pay for auntie. I did pay for aunties surgery can you imagine getting brain surgery for 20K baht and her meds are next to nothing per month less then 500 baht. It's amazing the ladies hear she gets 50k a month they assume that is play money far from it she runs a farrang household on that. There is extra there, if it's handled right for trinkets and such. She has purchased gold slowly over the years. She asks me about things like the aswner is it's your moey stay in the budget and do what you want. By the way I did see she was frugal about money and taught he about budgets before this happened.

I know where the problem really is, it's the tuning out that we both do. Everyone sees the wife not listening and nothing happens so they don't either. But it has went past acceptable levels for me now. I could leave her, but how many guys have wives that are like what I just described. Oh I know I could go get a 20 year old hard body I've done it before I got married, but it costs to drive a corvette in many many ways. Yelling doesn't work whne you have been tuned out. I have now tried the Jai Yen approach many many times. Last a little longer then the yelling bit not much.

In the end it's my fault she is now a Princess compared to where her life was five years ago. for anyone who wants to put on the white hat and save the day. At first it is recognized then it becomes just everyday living.

This is a marriage worth saving, so we started Thai family counceling. You guys would like that one simple answer I'm the 1st priority. I got one obstacle to get over but it's a big one.

Truth is I have found palying the game just as they do very effective. If I distance myself and not talk, she will respond but I hate to play games. But, if that is what she undertands might be the only effective avenue available.

I said the first messsage was a rant, blowing off steam, releasing anger.

Now this is real life not all that bad.

[a2396]

I find this is a constant and recurring problem. It seems most Thias have learned to tune out any and all extraneous noises - barking dogs, loud music, traffic, etc. This is coupled with a generally short attention span and lack of focus on the subject at hand. Add in poor comprehension and lack of interest in English. Unless you are fluent in Thai, it often is necessary to find a Thai person who speaks & understands both languages, and has a clear & focused mind, to resolve issues of importance. Such a person is not easy to find outside of BKK.

[ray23]

Good points. I have been working on Thai for years, in that I qaulify for dim wit. I will keep trying what else I got to do

It becomes more complicated in Issan where serveral languages are actually used. Depending on who you are speaking to they may understand proper Thai and they may not.

In the end you haev to look to yourself first, I created this tiger now I have to do somehting about it. Not thier problem they are happy, I'm not.

I'll try another family meeting this morning and see if things have calmed down. If not tomorrow. But I'm not letting slide anymore. So I will use the Jai Yen today, the big stick was yesterday.