Thinking About Our Daughter's Education Over Time

[torrenova]

Just thinking about a few things and how the next few years are going to pan out and my mind drifted to the subject of the medium term education of our daughter.

Currently we are in Buriram as I've sold off most of my businesses in Thailand over the last 18 months having envisaged a business downturn in the tourist sector and now we have financial meltdown and world recession on the cards, which I did not foresee, my thoughts turned to what I want to do and where and how that would affect my family and particularly our daughter's education.

She is only 15 months and we're starting her at a kindergarten place at 18 months and will lead her up to full participation in that over the next 3 months to let her adjust. After that we are not committed to anything but I don't know whether I will or will want to re-invest in Thailand due to a number of factors.

What I am concerned about is her gaining enough knowledge about her mother's country, culture and language as I don't want her to be a half Thai child who does not know Thailand or even speak the language fluently. If I do something in Asia, most likely in Singapore then we can live in both countries and the problem will not be so great. However, I don't want to drag her around the world for short stints or even prolonged ones and certainly not until she is much older.

So what I want to ask is what age is sufficient for her to remain in Thailand to grasp the language fluently and just how difficult is is for kids to adjust to different countries and languages. She is already speaking her version of both English and Thai and understands both to her level.

Previously I thought that she would attend university outside Thailand if she wished but would probably be educated to at least 11 or so in Thailand, perhaps even to 16 and maybe even through to 18. I suppose I thought the logical times for a move were when she was 11, perhaps 14 or 16. That would give her time to fit in with the UK curriculum, the only other one I know.

I know it is way off but decisions made in the next 12 months will shape our family's future for the next 5 to 10 years or so and that makes it important. I would not be happy being a largely absent father but could probably handle a semi commute from Singapore with the family flying the other way on occasion.

What do people here think - any comments welcome. Also, I would welcome any thoughts on boarding schools, either weekly boarding or full term boarding at a later age.

[ajannick]

Hi Torrenova,

I can relate to what you are thinking as I have two children one of which was born in Thailand and the other born in the UK. They both have spent time in Thailand and in the Thai education system. They are both now in the UK and enjoying life and school here.

You mentioned about having a half Thai daughter and not wanting her to leave without knowing the Thai culture, fair enough, but she is also half something else (don't know your nationality) and you may deny her this culture in the process. You mention that she is speaking both Thai and English already and if you and your wife keep this up then you have already cracked the language thing. Children are very versatile and can usually adapt to new surroundings and situations a lot more easily than you may think.

My personal opinion is; a family that is together stays together, so I would do everything possible to be with them full time, if this meant loosing a bit of culture or language skills along the way then so be it.

[think_too_mut]

My personal opinion is; a family that is together stays together, so I would do everything possible to be with them full time, if this meant loosing a bit of culture or language skills along the way then so be it.

That's it. Wherever, just whole family together. It's common saying: "what you learn between year 3 and 8 is what determines your life".

According to that, I was late 1.5 years, got family together in Japan last month when my daughter was almost 4.5 year old. Full time together, enhanced by lack of family and friends may make up for that.

My daughter plays with Japanese kids in playgrounds as if she has always known them, with all possible nationalities kids in her school as well.

It's a remarkable change in her behavior since she has realized that papa is not going anywhere and will be at home day in day out.

Maintaining "Thainess"? Whatever it is, she can enjoy it 2 months a year, July and August, when her school is closed and she and wife can enjoy our new condo in Bangkok, with pools and plenty of kids running around.

To torrenova: if you are in Singapore and want your family to come in and out (it's much harder than you think, just one example - her school in Thai has to be closed and you available to look after them and enjoy) one thing may pop up - per your other posts, you are not officially married and after second entry, Singapore Immigration may start harassing your wife. When you complain, they will openly ask you "what is the issue, why don't you marry her?".

Whatever - that may end up as separate life, with supporting 2 households and being part-time father.

IMO - just get them to Singapore and live there. There is no gain separate life in Buriram would have over whole family life in Singapore. For that matter, Singapore could be better than probably any other place on the planet.

[PeaceBlondie]

We like to say that children are flexible and can adapt to changes in living conditions. That is not always true. I don't know what to advise.

[torrenova]

My personal opinion is; a family that is together stays together, so I would do everything possible to be with them full time, if this meant loosing a bit of culture or language skills along the way then so be it.

That's it. Wherever, just whole family together. It's common saying: "what you learn between year 3 and 8 is what determines your life".

According to that, I was late 1.5 years, got family together in Japan last month when my daughter was almost 4.5 year old. Full time together, enhanced by lack of family and friends may make up for that.

My daughter plays with Japanese kids in playgrounds as if she has always known them, with all possible nationalities kids in her school as well.

It's a remarkable change in her behavior since she has realized that papa is not going anywhere and will be at home day in day out.

Maintaining "Thainess"? Whatever it is, she can enjoy it 2 months a year, July and August, when her school is closed and she and wife can enjoy our new condo in Bangkok, with pools and plenty of kids running around.

To torrenova: if you are in Singapore and want your family to come in and out (it's much harder than you think, just one example - her school in Thai has to be closed and you available to look after them and enjoy) one thing may pop up - per your other posts, you are not officially married and after second entry, Singapore Immigration may start harassing your wife. When you complain, they will openly ask you "what is the issue, why don't you marry her?".

Whatever - that may end up as separate life, with supporting 2 households and being part-time father.

IMO - just get them to Singapore and live there. There is no gain separate life in Buriram would have over whole family life in Singapore. For that matter, Singapore could be better than probably any other place on the planet.

Some good points, thanks.

The Buriram thing is only temporary anyway. After divesting of most things n Pattaya it offered a chance to go back to her province whilst we consider the longer term future.

As for the official marriage thing then I understand but we may do it official but I think she can get some dependent visa anyway. Haven't gone into finite detail yet.

Being in Singapore together might be an option or it might not. Perhaps for a year (if I go down that route) then I'd just commute back to LOS and they could fly down for a week or two now and then. No problem at pre school. Would not work when she starts school proper though I admit.

The togetherness thing I agree with but if was still in my old career then I would always be flying around the world and I don't see how I could have avoided that. IN fact, that reason is one reason I struck out on my own, to get a better quality of life.

Lots to think about.

[Polemi]

In my personal experience of having 3 languages in my family I strongly feel that a child needs a ''mother tounge''. A child has developed its language enough to start to read at the age of 6 (according to experts and my opinion). The child needs to play and experience day to day life in that language. I dont mean that a child cant have more than one language as a ''living'' language, but one needs to be the main one. Usually the child will ''pick'' the language that is used mostly in its enviroment. To move a child around a lot under the age of 6 means that the parents have to work hard if they want the child to be fluent in a language that is not spoken in the country they live in. If the parents speak two different languages they have to speak in their own language to the child all the time if they wish the child to be fluent in both. From my experience this is difficult if one of the languages is used as the ''family language''.

My mother tounge is Swedish, my husbands is English and we live with our 2 children in Greece. Our family language is English. I have tried to speak Swedish as much as possible w our children but as we speak in English when we are all together the children chose English to be their language. They go to Greek school and most of their friends are greek. They dont find it difficult to swap between the three but Swedish is hardest for them as they dont hear that as much as English and Greek. Hope this makes sense

[PeaceBlondie]

I wonder if the cultural heritage can be passed to half-Thai children without extended stays in Thailand.

[Kuedech]

Just thinking about a few things and how the next few years are going to pan out and my mind drifted to the subject of the medium term education of our daughter.

Currently we are in Buriram as I've sold off most of my businesses in Thailand over the last 18 months having envisaged a business downturn in the tourist sector and now we have financial meltdown and world recession on the cards, which I did not foresee, my thoughts turned to what I want to do and where and how that would affect my family and particularly our daughter's education.

She is only 15 months and we're starting her at a kindergarten place at 18 months and will lead her up to full participation in that over the next 3 months to let her adjust. After that we are not committed to anything but I don't know whether I will or will want to re-invest in Thailand due to a number of factors.

What I am concerned about is her gaining enough knowledge about her mother's country, culture and language as I don't want her to be a half Thai child who does not know Thailand or even speak the language fluently. If I do something in Asia, most likely in Singapore then we can live in both countries and the problem will not be so great. However, I don't want to drag her around the world for short stints or even prolonged ones and certainly not until she is much older.

So what I want to ask is what age is sufficient for her to remain in Thailand to grasp the language fluently and just how difficult is is for kids to adjust to different countries and languages. She is already speaking her version of both English and Thai and understands both to her level.

Previously I thought that she would attend university outside Thailand if she wished but would probably be educated to at least 11 or so in Thailand, perhaps even to 16 and maybe even through to 18. I suppose I thought the logical times for a move were when she was 11, perhaps 14 or 16. That would give her time to fit in with the UK curriculum, the only other one I know.

I know it is way off but decisions made in the next 12 months will shape our family's future for the next 5 to 10 years or so and that makes it important. I would not be happy being a largely absent father but could probably handle a semi commute from Singapore with the family flying the other way on occasion.

What do people here think - any comments welcome. Also, I would welcome any thoughts on boarding schools, either weekly boarding or full term boarding at a later age.

[hamishgillan]

i would just go with the flow man, thats what i'm doing

[prapagorn]

many time we talk together with mom thailand .they not problem with daughter but sometime they want change school for her daughter ..

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

You could school enroll her in Thai government primary schools. At age 12, when she enters Mattayom, you could put her in an EP program from M1-M3. If you're in Buriam at that time, the biggest secondary school in Buriam probably has the best EP program. The cost isn't outrageous (currently 40,000 baht/year).

When she completes M3, you could send her to a good boarding school overseas, like in Singapore, Japan or Australia. That way, she has a full Thai childhood, with cultural integration, but also will have the English skills to successfully complete university studies at top schools.

[nikster]

i would just go with the flow man, thats what i'm doing

seconded

It helps to realize that culture is just a very thin layer on top of the human experience. So there is no need to "worry" about cultural heritage. Is she not Thai enough? Too Thai? In reality, the question is irrelevant for her happiness, for her life. Thai culture is pleasant but it's something I have a pretty good understanding of even though I am here only 5 years - so I am not worried about my son. He'll swim in it like a fish in the water.

Your daughter will get everything she knows from you and your wife, and by extension, the people and circumstances you surround yourself with. Making it a primary goal that the family stays together is far more important than culture or language. Happy parents, happy kids.

[chiangmaibruce]

A very important topic and some good points made already. Surely all of us with 1/2 thai kids have considered this issue of Thai-ness and sought to weigh it against other factors, like the family staying together, the need for English fluency, ability to undertake further education overseas later, and so on.

Even if the family stays in Thailand this is somewhat difficult as there are few truly bilingual schools <warning/generalisation follows>

The international ones offer only a token amount of Thai language and culture as part of the curriculum. For example the child will not learn to read and write Thai unless you can manage to do this at home. But, if there has to be a trade-off - just on this language issue - then surely English fluency must be the more important in terms of the child's future options?

The Thai schools - even when offering an English stream - often seem to do an indifferent job of teaching English and do so within a Thai education framework. Here in Chiang Mai we seem to be having a small explosion in "bilingual" kindies, schools, etc. It's the new buzzword, like putting eco- in front of everything (ie. eco-tourism). We have visited a few, and with most I suspect that once the last farang parent disappears from view, it is 100% Thai being spoken all day every day.

It seems to be the position of many that this Thai education framework generally does not turn out people who can compete on the world stage (ie. with adequate intellectual curiosity, confidence and drive, etc) even if they have the basic knowledge implanted (and that's perhaps a big IF). Yes surely there must be some Thai schools that are different, but I would suggest that they represent an exception to the rule.

I started off thinking a better Thai school would be OK until at last the end of primary school. Now I am thinking that perhaps this idea might be influenced less by the head and more by the heart (perhaps a tad self-indulgent even?). And the more I have read about Thai education - from Thaivisa and various other sources - the more I feel that getting the Thai-ness might well come at the cost of our child reaching his full potential from both an intellectual and economic standpoint (or at least having the widest range of choices open to him in the future).

Our little one is currently happy in (what seems to be) a good Thai school, but only in the nursery grade. These are just my thoughts at this point in time. Our considerations are ongoing, but at this stage it is likely that the next move (sooner rather than later) will be either to an international school or back home to Australia.

Good luck with your own decision-making

[think_too_mut]

She is already speaking her version of both English and Thai and understands both to her level.

It's been just over a month that we are all in Japan. End of September, my daughter was speaking 95% Thai and 5% of what her English was , consisted of words she knew but no sentences.

Now, 4 weeks at International school, ramped up her English beyond any expectations. This way, end of school year she would hardly differ from kids born in English speaking families.

The school is expensive (I pay it myself) but max 12 kids in a class and 2 (yes, 2 ) teachers (one mid-20s and 1 mid-50s) per such a small class work wonders.

[torrenova]

I know that I can teach my daughter English far better than her mother will ever be able to teach her Thai. That goes for maths, physics and social sciences etc.

I do want and need her to be firstly bilingual and then trilingual (I can speak German as well) and a second European language would be easy because of the script. I tried to learn Japanese as an adult and found it near impossible whilst holding down a demanding job.

Personally I expect that I will know more than the teachers at even the best schools in most subjects pre degree level. Why ? because I was taught well. Kids today are not even taught grammar outside of foreign languages.