Convert A 30 Day On Arrival To Retirement Visa

[Bengt]

I have a friend that arriving next week on a 30 day exempt visa and as far as i know it can be converted to a non-o visa by the reason to apply for a retirement extension for one year.

Hes economic status is pension from Sweden more than enough over required 65.000 THB per month that can be certified by Swedish Embassy.

I told him that he need at least 21 days left on hes 30 day on arrival visa to be able to convert to a Non-o visa.

Hes nationality is Swedish and hes age is 50 years and I have promised him to assist him at the immigration office as a moral support and also help him to fill in the forms that are required by immigration and same to make all nessesary photocopies of the relevant pages in hes passport that will be needed to submit to the applications.

If I have forgot some important information I will be glad if some other can complete in this case,,,myself i have already one year retirement visa and have a non-o visa at my arrival in Thailand issued by Thaiembassy in Stockholm.

Regards

[ubonjoe]

Some immigration offices will want to see a bank book with some transfers from outside county and some money in account.

It may also be two step process. First time they will issue 90 day non-o and then in last 30 days of entry go back for 1 year extension.

You can go to this link and click change visa and then retirement if you need a reminder of whats needed.

Also you can download forms from website.

Link: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...p?page=service#

[Maestro]

I am not absolutely sure but I seem to remember a recent post saying that one immigration office refused the change to a non-O in preparation for a retirement extension. Aside from that, unless your friend has a ticket for onward or return travel within 30 days the airline has the right to refuse him boarding and many airlines exercise this right.

--

Maestro

[JimGant]

Sounds like he's got what's needed.

What's not clear to me is, in order to convert a visa exempt entry into a Non Imm O visa for the purposes of retirement, you need to meet the requirements for retirement extension (which are now only age and financial bonafides).

So, does this mean -- if you're going solely the income route -- a confirmation affidavit from your embassy/consulate that you meet the income requirement? If so, then you've got only 9 days to go to both your embassy/consulate and to Immigration (in order to meet the 21 days left on entry permit).

Or will Immigration accept something less to ascertain your income for the initial Non Imm O visa -- and only require the embassy/consulate affidavit when you return in 60 days to apply for the retirement extension?

This would be parallel to what I assume they do now for those going the bank route, namely, issuing the Non Imm O visa even tho' the bank balance has not aged 3-months -- but will have aged 3-months when you come back 60+ days later for the retirement extension.

Anyway, I ask because that could be a very busy 9 days upon landing in Thailand, if you need that affidavit outright. (But, on the other hand, if you had the affidavit, Immigration just might issue your Non Imm O visa -- and one-year extension -- on the same day. But, I haven't seen any examples of that here for a couple of years.)

Probably best to come in on at least a tourist visa -- which would give you 39 days to do your business. Plus, it would avoid the potential airline denial-of-boarding-without-a-visa dilemma. Or, best of all, get your Non Imm O *before* heading to Thailand.

[Lite Beer]

Probably best to come in on at least a tourist visa -- which would give you 39 days to do your business. Plus, it would avoid the potential airline denial-of-boarding-without-a-visa dilemma. Or, best of all, get your Non Imm O *before* heading to Thailand.

That sounds good to me.

[ubonjoe]

Info from immigration website. Doesn't say money has to be in bank for 3 months.

DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA OR VISA STATUS ALTERATION (NON-O): FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES.

In case of overstaying in Thailand, application could not be submitted.

1. Application for Visa Status Alteration. (TM.86)

Application for visa. (TM.87)

2. Copy of passport entries.

3. 4 X 6 cm. Photograph.

4. Application fee of 2,000 baht.

5. • A guarantee letter from bank in Thailand showing that the applicant has an account of not less than 800,000 baht, and

• Copy all pages of bank passbook and

• A document proving foreign remittance(SWIFT) Or

6. A guarantee-letter from The Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension or income of the applicant not less than 65,000 baht per month. Or

7. The total amount of money from the pension and bank account as stated above not less than 800,000 baht.

I agee it would be better to enter on a non-o or at least a tourist visa.

[Maestro]

…

So, does this mean -- if you're going solely the income route -- a confirmation affidavit from your embassy/consulate that you meet the income requirement? If so, then you've got only 9 days to go to both your embassy/consulate and to Immigration (in order to meet the 21 days left on entry permit)…

Arrive on Monday, get the embassy letter on Tuesday, get your extension of stay on Wednesday. And this is doing it the slow and comfortable way; it could be done even faster.

Of course, first you have to get on the plane without a visa, because if you come for retirement you probably won't have a return flight booked within 30 days.

--

Maestro

[JimGant]

Arrive on Monday, get the embassy letter on Tuesday, get your extension of stay on Wednesday. And this is doing it the slow and comfortable way; it could be done even faster.

My point wasn't that it couldn't be done from a time perspective. I just wondered if you needed the embassy affidavit for conversion -- or would something less do until you came back 60 days hence for your retirement extension? This would be akin to getting your conversion with unseasoned money in the bank -- with the 3-month requirement applying only to the subsequent retirement extension.

But, probably a moot question, as the tactic itself sucks. (Nevertheless, if I arrived on Saturday, had jet lag, the embassy only did affidavits on certain days, and I wanted to be on the beach -- I might be curious if someone actually had the answer.)

[Lite Beer]

But, probably a moot question, as the tactic itself sucks. (Nevertheless, if I arrived on Saturday, had jet lag, the embassy only did affidavits on certain days, and I wanted to be on the beach -- I might be curious if someone actually had the answer.)

As Joe pointed out you would need the Embassy letter to do this plus everything else.

Not really a good plan is it?

As you say Jim. Come with a Visa.

[JimGant]

As Joe pointed out you would need the Embassy letter to do this

Whoops, I missed that particular paragraph. New glasses time.

[Lite Beer]

As Joe pointed out you would need the Embassy letter to do this

Whoops, I missed that particular paragraph. New glasses time.

I have heard that the bottom of Leo beer bottles work just as well.

[bjohn34]

I am US passport holder and entered Thailand in Sep on visa waiver. I tried to convert to Non Imm O and then get retirement extension in Chiangmai and immigration there refused. I had the money in the bank but it had not been there for 90 days but that was not the reason. The person I talked to said that I could not convert directly from visa waiver. I do not know if it was just the person I happened to talk to or if that is the policy.

Told me to go out of Thailand, get a tourist visa and then come back. I went to Vientiane, got tourist visa and am now waiting for bank account aging to complete.

Edited October 31, 2008 by bjohn34

[Lite Beer]

I am US passport holder and entered Thailand in Sep on visa waiver. I tried to convert to Non Imm O and then get retirement extension in Chiangmai and immigration there refused. I had the money in the bank but it had not been there for 90 days but that was not the reason. The person I talked to said that I could not convert directly from visa waiver. I do not know if it was just the person I happened to talk to or if that is the policy.

Told me to go out of Thailand, get a tourist visa and then come back. I went to Vientiane, got tourist visa and am now waiting for bank account aging to complete.

Maybe it was the person you spoke to or you had less than 21 days remaining on you 30 day entry stay.

You need at least 21 days remaining on your permission to stay to upgrade. The same applies with you Tourist Visa.

Do not leave it too late.

[Mario2008]

There have recently been some more reports about immigration refusing to convert and telling people you can now only convert in Bangkok.

[ubonjoe]

I am US passport holder and entered Thailand in Sep on visa waiver. I tried to convert to Non Imm O and then get retirement extension in Chiangmai and immigration there refused. I had the money in the bank but it had not been there for 90 days but that was not the reason. The person I talked to said that I could not convert directly from visa waiver. I do not know if it was just the person I happened to talk to or if that is the policy.

Told me to go out of Thailand, get a tourist visa and then come back. I went to Vientiane, got tourist visa and am now waiting for bank account aging to complete.

It probably was the 21 day thing and/or the immigration officer that you talked to.

Why did you get a tourist visa? Vientiane would of given you a single entry non-o if you had applied for it.

I would guess you probably got a tourist visa because the immigration officer gave you bad information.

[PhilHarries]

Info from immigration website. Doesn't say money has to be in bank for 3 months.

DOCUMENTS TO BE SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION FOR VISA OR VISA STATUS ALTERATION (NON-O): FOR RETIREMENT PURPOSES.

In case of overstaying in Thailand, application could not be submitted.

1. Application for Visa Status Alteration. (TM.86)

Application for visa. (TM.87)

2. Copy of passport entries.

3. 4 X 6 cm. Photograph.

4. Application fee of 2,000 baht.

5. • A guarantee letter from bank in Thailand showing that the applicant has an account of not less than 800,000 baht, and

• Copy all pages of bank passbook and

• A document proving foreign remittance(SWIFT) Or

6. A guarantee-letter from The Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension or income of the applicant not less than 65,000 baht per month. Or

7. The total amount of money from the pension and bank account as stated above not less than 800,000 baht.

I agee it would be better to enter on a non-o or at least a tourist visa.

To my way of thinking step one is the nutcracker. If you arrive on a 30 day exemption stamp yu have no visa to alter the status of.

I might be wrong, have been may times in the past, but that is the way I would view it.

[Mario2008]

^ In the recent past it has not been a problem to convert from a visa exempt entry or a tourist visa to a non-immigrant visa. The wording is confusing, but the practise has always been you can also convert on a visa exempt entry.

[ubonjoe]

I understand your point.

There have been several posts from people that have done it on a visa exempt entry. When turned down most have been because they didn't have 21 days left on their enrty.

[bjohn34]

I am US passport holder and entered Thailand in Sep on visa waiver. I tried to convert to Non Imm O and then get retirement extension in Chiangmai and immigration there refused. I had the money in the bank but it had not been there for 90 days but that was not the reason. The person I talked to said that I could not convert directly from visa waiver. I do not know if it was just the person I happened to talk to or if that is the policy.

Told me to go out of Thailand, get a tourist visa and then come back. I went to Vientiane, got tourist visa and am now waiting for bank account aging to complete.

Maybe it was the person you spoke to or you had less than 21 days remaining on you 30 day entry stay.

You need at least 21 days remaining on your permission to stay to upgrade. The same applies with you Tourist Visa.

Do not leave it too late.

I knew about the 21 day issue so I went with more than 21 days left. I suspect it was the person I talked to although she consulted with others before turning me down.

I got the tourist visa in Vientiane because money had not been in bank 90 days and because that is what they told me to do.

[Lite Beer]

I knew about the 21 day issue so I went with more than 21 days left. I suspect it was the person I talked to although she consulted with others before turning me down.

I got the tourist visa in Vientiane because money had not been in bank 90 days and because that is what they told me to do.

I does seem a bit strange. However they are the ones you are dealing with. So you can only follow their wishes.

[JimGant]

I knew about the 21 day issue so I went with more than 21 days left. I suspect it was the person I talked to although she consulted with others before turning me down.

What a bummer. Chiang Mai Immigration is normally one of the more accommodating, consistent offices. But, I can't recall any other examples, positive or negative, of converting exempt entries into Non Imm O visas in Chiang Mai......

Out of curiosity, did you actually hand the TM.87 to the clerk, complete with photo and 2000 baht attached? If so, they could have really been nasty, accepting the form and money -- then reverting to what is says at the bottom of the form:

WHETHER PERMISSION IS GRANTED OR NOT, APPLICATION FEE IS NOT REFUNDABLE

Or, maybe if the TM.87 form had been submitted (assuming it hadn't), it might have jogged their collective memories that it is on the books that Non Imm O's can be obtained from visa exempt entries........

Sorry to hear Chiang Mai Immigration has a speed bump.

[JimGant]

I went to Vientiane, got tourist visa and am now waiting for bank account aging to complete.

Waiting for aging before ....... converting Tourist to a Non Imm O visa?

Another thread seemed to show that aging was *not* required to convert to a Non Imm O visa. You only needed 3-months-in-the-bank when you subsequently showed up to apply for your retirement extension (normally 60days+ after converting to a Non Imm O visa).

Have you already converted to a Non Imm O -- or did Immigration say 'come back for conversion only after aging?'

[bjohn34]

I went to Vientiane, got tourist visa and am now waiting for bank account aging to complete.

Waiting for aging before ....... converting Tourist to a Non Imm O visa?

Another thread seemed to show that aging was *not* required to convert to a Non Imm O visa. You only needed 3-months-in-the-bank when you subsequently showed up to apply for your retirement extension (normally 60days+ after converting to a Non Imm O visa).

Have you already converted to a Non Imm O -- or did Immigration say 'come back for conversion only after aging?'

Have not converted yet. They did not tell me to wait for the aging, but I want to get retirement extension also and with the tourist visa I have there is no rush. Therefore I will wait for the 90 day aging to complete in early Dec and attempt to convert to Non Imm O and get retirement extension in one visit to Immigration.

I am novice at this so flying a little blind. All advice welcome.

[wpcoe]

I am US passport holder and entered Thailand in Sep on visa waiver. I tried to convert to Non Imm O and then get retirement extension in Chiangmai and immigration there refused. I had the money in the bank but it had not been there for 90 days but that was not the reason. The person I talked to said that I could not convert directly from visa waiver. I do not know if it was just the person I happened to talk to or if that is the policy.

Told me to go out of Thailand, get a tourist visa and then come back. I went to Vientiane, got tourist visa and am now waiting for bank account aging to complete.

As some cynics here (who, me? ) would say: Thai Immigrations procedures vary from office to office, and sometimes from officer to officer, and even from day to day. It sounds like what you experienced, since I know that Jomtien (Pattaya) Immigrations still converts directly from visa-exemption stamp to Non Immigrant O for the purpose of a retirement extension. I further know they do it when the money has not yet been in the Thai bank for 90 days. An acquaintance of mine did it about a week ago.

Also, I think most of the process and procedure has been covered above, but as a summary, I still have my web page: The express lane to a "Retirement Extension" with just a 30-day visa-exemption stamp (i.e. no visa)

[JimGant]

3. Complete Form TM.7, the Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom. This will convert your 90-day Non-Immigrant "O" visa to one year from the date of entry on your original passport stamp. It cost B1,900.

WP, most (all?) recent reports indicate Immigration now starts the one-year retirement extension clock from the date your 90-day permitted to stay stamp expires. Such a stamp is obtained when you convert to a Non Imm O in-country, and they send you home to wait at least 60 days into that 90 day permission before applying for the one-year retirement extension.

If I recall right, you got your Non Imm O visa *and* one-year retirement extension on the same day. In such a case, it wouldn't make sense to give you a 90-day permission stamp, followed 2 seconds later by a one-year permission stamp. So, the only logical choice is to begin the one-year clock from date of entry.

But, I haven't heard much lately about converting to a Non Imm O visa -- and also getting your one-year retirement extension -- on the same day. Was your friend that you mentioned able to do this -- or was he told to come back in 60 days?

Oh, your website still remains an excellent source for this process. I might suggest, in the area where you talk about the other avenues (O-A and O visas) that you mention the Tourist Visa conversion route. That would make it an ironclad source, IMO.

[Bengt]

But, probably a moot question, as the tactic itself sucks. (Nevertheless, if I arrived on Saturday, had jet lag, the embassy only did affidavits on certain days, and I wanted to be on the beach -- I might be curious if someone actually had the answer.)

As Joe pointed out you would need the Embassy letter to do this plus everything else.

Not really a good plan is it?

As you say Jim. Come with a Visa.

Hello Lite.....my friend comes by a charter airline for a 2 weeks vacation and will trough away hes return ticket and buy a new one way ticket back home to Sweden when he wants to go back home again.

He will bring all nessesary documents that will be required and our Swedish embassy will issue the certificate of hes pension in an hour for the cost of 600 THB and then we have to go to the Immmigration in Sri racha for a convertion from 30 days exempt visa to a Non-o for 90 days..it cost 2000 THB.

I think if he as my advise bring all documents I told him to bring whit him maybe we have a chance to go trough the processes whit the Immigration.

Hes pension exeed lot more than one million THB per year so there will be no economic problem in any way.

The other alternative is to take a visa trip to Laos for a Non-o visa but we will try to make all the processes here in Thailand and its worth a try....another point of view is that hes married to a Thai national that got a permanent stay in Sweden since 2 years now.

Ok Lite...you been a great help to me when I have problem whit immigration when i was applying for one year extension based non retirement...but i got it last week at Pattaya immigration and to my surprice I got little more than 14 months extension at my first time so now its time for me to be at some help for others here too..

As soon he arrive we will be at our embassy at day number 2 and at immigration at day number 3 so hopefully there will be a chance.

Regards!!

[dotcom]

In Ubon Joe's post #6 above it doesn't say the money has to be seasoned. (Using the 800k method).

Is this an omission or is it not required in this particular case?

Thanks.

[ubonjoe]

In Ubon Joe's post #6 above it doesn't say the money has to be seasoned. (Using the 800k method).

Is this an omission or is it not required in this particular case?

Thanks.

No omission.

This is for a change of visa or visa status only and is a copy and paste from immigration website.(IE: tourist visa to non-o or visa exempt entry to non-o) The reason seasoning is not re-required is because in this case immigration will issue a 90 day non-o visa. Before that visa expires the applicant will have to return to immigration and extend it for 1 year and at that time then show money in bank for 3 months.

[JimGant]

Before that visa expires the applicant will have to return to immigration and extend it for 1 year and at that time then show money in bank for 3 months.

The irony is, if you're going solely the income affidavit route, you apparently need to have all the t's crossed up-front (i.e., affidavit from Embassy/Consulate) to do both the conversion, and the subsequent 1-year retirement extension. Why the procedures aren't parallel..........(no, I won't even waste my time repeating the platitude answer).

[wpcoe]

3. Complete Form TM.7, the Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom. This will convert your 90-day Non-Immigrant "O" visa to one year from the date of entry on your original passport stamp. It cost B1,900.

WP, most (all?) recent reports indicate Immigration now starts the one-year retirement extension clock from the date your 90-day permitted to stay stamp expires. Such a stamp is obtained when you convert to a Non Imm O in-country, and they send you home to wait at least 60 days into that 90 day permission before applying for the one-year retirement extension.

Thanks for reminding me of that. Yes, I think it changed since I went through the process in 2006.

If I recall right, you got your Non Imm O visa *and* one-year retirement extension on the same day. In such a case, it wouldn't make sense to give you a 90-day permission stamp, followed 2 seconds later by a one-year permission stamp. So, the only logical choice is to begin the one-year clock from date of entry.

Correct again, I think. They actually gave me a special Non Immigrant O visa valid for one day only, and not a 90-day visa.

But, I haven't heard much lately about converting to a Non Imm O visa -- and also getting your one-year retirement extension -- on the same day. Was your friend that you mentioned able to do this -- or was he told to come back in 60 days?

There was mis-communication between him and me. He did not use *any* income to qualify, he used solely the B800k in the bank, and it hadn't been there 90 days yet, so they gave him a 90-day visa and told him to come back after the money had been there long enough. They didn't tell him to wait until the last 21 days, just to wait until the money reached its 90th day, which is only a few weeks into the 90-day visa they gave him.

I wonder if the same-day process on a special one-day Non-Immigrant O is still available for folks who meet the criteria to get the extension on initial application, i.e. if my friend had gone the income route with an embassy letter certifying >B65k per month income, would they have sent him out the door the same day with his extension? <shrug>

Oh, your website still remains an excellent source for this process. I might suggest, in the area where you talk about the other avenues (O-A and O visas) that you mention the Tourist Visa conversion route. That would make it an ironclad source, IMO.

Thanks. I actually thought just the other day about pulling down the web page, since keeping up with changes is annoying <g>, and my original goal of a *simple* reference site is ballooning into a somewhat complex mega-page. That said, I have added your info from above (about the effective date of the retirement extension), and am adding a reference to using a Tourist Visa. HOWEVER, I'm not clear: when starting with a Tourist Visa, does it first need to be converted to a Non-Immigrant O, or can the extension be issued directly to the Tourist Visa?

PS: It's flattering, but uncomfortable and mis-directed, that people send me private e-mails with technical immigrations questions after reading my site. I'm in no way an expert, and usually refer them to post their question here on ThaiVisa.com or I offer to post on their behalf. I know next-to-nothing about other types of visas, or work permits, or border runs, etc.

I set up that page as private reference guide for my work colleagues when the visa rules changed in October 2006, but revealed it to the public here on the forum initially for feedback on its layout and accuracy. Then my web site took a HUGE number of hits on that page for the following months, and I realized it could be useful to others and have left it public. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy feedback and suggestions about the page, am fairly clear on the specific process of converting a 30-day visa waiver stamp to a retirement extension, but should not be considered an expert on Thai immigrations issues!

And, speaking of experts: lopburi3, if you still lurk around here, let me tell you, your expertise is sadly missed, and I hope all is well with you!