O-a Retirement Visa Questions

[jbeck]

I'm age 50 and I get 2 checks a month total $4000 USD net from working from my home for the university.

I want to apply for the O-A visa and i've read for hours, and even called the embassy.

But they can't seem to answer a few questions:

Does the 800,000B have to be in a special separate 'CD' or other type of account, or will 'any' bank account be okay?

I heard that you can't touch the money for 3 months? This doesn't make sense.

Can I use my income to meet the criteria even though I'm not supposed to be working?

I'm in the US with a US passport, and I just spent 5 weeks in the Kingdom.

Are 'normal' bank statements and/or pay stubs accepted, or do I need written letters for either/both sources?

When they ask for an address on the personal form, can it just be the hotel I'm going to stay at initially?

thanks.

[Krub]

I'm age 50 and I get 2 checks a month total $4000 USD net from working from my home for the university.

I want to apply for the O-A visa and i've read for hours, and even called the embassy.

But they can't seem to answer a few questions:

Does the 800,000B have to be in a special separate 'CD' or other type of account, or will 'any' bank account be okay?

I heard that you can't touch the money for 3 months? This doesn't make sense.

Can I use my income to meet the criteria even though I'm not supposed to be working?

I'm in the US with a US passport, and I just spent 5 weeks in the Kingdom.

Are 'normal' bank statements and/or pay stubs accepted, or do I need written letters for either/both sources?

When they ask for an address on the personal form, can it just be the hotel I'm going to stay at initially?

thanks.

Will you be applying for a retirement 'permit' in the US or in Thailand ?

[ubonjoe]

I'm age 50 and I get 2 checks a month total $4000 USD net from working from my home for the university.

I want to apply for the O-A visa and i've read for hours, and even called the embassy.

But they can't seem to answer a few questions:

Does the 800,000B have to be in a special separate 'CD' or other type of account, or will 'any' bank account be okay?

I heard that you can't touch the money for 3 months? This doesn't make sense.

Can I use my income to meet the criteria even though I'm not supposed to be working?

I'm in the US with a US passport, and I just spent 5 weeks in the Kingdom.

Are 'normal' bank statements and/or pay stubs accepted, or do I need written letters for either/both sources?

When they ask for an address on the personal form, can it just be the hotel I'm going to stay at initially?

thanks.

You say an OA visa do you meat the one that you get at a Thai consulate and have to get a police report, health cert. and etc.

For this you just have to show the money (no 3 months requirement) in bank or income.

Or are you talking about getting one year extension after arriving here on a regular non-o visa. If it is this you can go to the US conuslate and do income affidavit which can be used to get the extension. Income for this can be from any source.

If applying here for extension money must be in bank for 3 months prior to date of application. It can be in any type of savings or a CD. You can touch the money but the balance can't go below 800K for 3 months.

Yes it can be a hotel.

For info on a OA visa the following link will help but ignore immigration office info in #3 it is incorect you can not apply for this visa here.

Link: http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2493

[Lite Beer]

If applying in USA the money does not have to be in a bank for 3 months. If applying in Thailand it does. A hotel address will be fine. Yes you can use your income. 65,000 Baht a month.

As Krub asks it makes a lot of difference if you are applying for an O-A Visa in USA OR a Retirement extension in Thailand.

Info. from the LA website

http://www.thai-la.net/visa/visa-non-im-oa.htm

[JimGant]

I want to apply for the O-A visa and i've read for hours, and even called the embassy. But they can't seem to answer a few questions:

Call, or email, an honorary consulate. They're easier to deal with -- and usually can answer all your questions. Houston and Portland seem to be the flavor of the month. Contact info easily found by searching this forum or Googling.

Don't think they'd be overly stringent on source of your income, as it is from a (I assume) Stateside, not a Thailand, university. Have never seen where income has to strictly be either a pension or annuity.....

Whether pay stubs or a monthly bank statement would suffice, I don't know. Have seen where simple letterhead stationary has sufficed to verify money in the bank, and the required police and medical reports. These guys are pretty flexible, so I would think anything that looks kosher (like a bank statement or a pay stub) would be acceptable.

Anyway, a chat with an honorary consulate should provide you with what you need. If you do subsequently go the O-A route, please come back here and tell us how it went. Good luck.

[jbeck]

i meant, that I think I have the initial visa under control, which I will get here in the US, but not understand the monetary procedure for renewal.

It seems (someone said) I need to bring, for renewal, proof that 800000B has been lying dormant in an account for 3 months.

So a bank statement from 3 months ago, and a bank statement on the day that I go to immigration?

How can anyone prove the during the 3 months the money never went 'below' 800000B if, for example. a savings account is okay?

Does this imply a savings account is NOT okay and it needs to be in a 3-month (or longer) CD in a thai bank and a savings account is not okay? I can't find out this level of detail on any of the consulate websites.

"5.4 Foreigner who wishes to extend his or her stay shall submit a request for extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer or a deposit account in Thailand or an income certificate showing an amount of not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate plus a deposit account showing a total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht. A one-year extension of stay shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer to the foreigner as long as he or she meets the above requirements."

"money transfer", (into a saving account)? "deposit account" (a CD?) It doesnt say anything about 3 months.

thanks, everyone - maybe someone who has actually done this, can PM me, - I expect to be cutting it very close, and probably won't be able to tie money up in a CD.

[jbeck]

ALSO, i have tried talking to consulate(s) and they tell me to talk to immigration when I get there regarding the renewal.

[Jingthing]

For your annual extensions of stay in Thailand, some points:

-- it sounds like you have income over 65K baht per month. You need to get a letter from the US embassy stating that fact. The US embassy takes your word for it but it is a good idea to have some paper proof in case Thai immigration demands you verify that further

-- if you qualify just on income, it is usually desirable to also maintain at least a small Thai bank account

-- if you are using a COMBO, income plus bank account to bring you to 800K, you do not need to season the money in the bank account, EVER

-- the seasoning only applies to people getting extensions based on retirement using the 800K in the bank method solely, and even then some immigration only require that seasoning the FIRST time, most do require it EVERY time

-- retired expats generally never get checking accounts or monthly mailed statements, they get SAVINGS PASSBOOKS where all the transactions are printed either at ATMs or at the bank counter. This is what you show immigration to show your bank money, a copy of your bank book. You also need to get an official letter from the bank very soon before your extension appointments, the balance shown on th letter must be exactly the same as in the book

-- if you do need to prove 3 month seasoning, you are not allowed to go even one baht below 800K for the three month period before the extension appointment, so if you are using this account for spending as is usual, you really need that account to be 800K plus 3 months spending practically speaking

-- make sure to set up wire arrangements with your US banks before you leave or you probably will not be able to make SWIFT wire transfers from the US to Thailand from Thailand

-- with an O-A there is a "special trick" where if you leave and return to Thaland using the correct timing, you get I think a FULL extra year without having to go through a formal extension the first time after you use the initial O-A period only. You will really want to learn about this, ask here, I can't explain that one as I didn't use an O-A.

[jbeck]

For your annual extensions of stay in Thailand, some points:

-- it sounds like you have income over 65K baht per month. You need to get a letter from the US embassy stating that fact. The US embassy takes your word for it but it is a good idea to have some paper proof in case Thai immigration demands you verify that further

-- if you qualify just on income, it is usually desirable to also maintain at least a small Thai bank account

-- if you are using a COMBO, income plus bank account to bring you to 800K, you do not need to season the money in the bank account, EVER

-- the seasoning only applies to people getting extensions based on retirement using the 800K in the bank method solely, and even then some immigration only require that seasoning the FIRST time, most do require it EVERY time

-- retired expats generally never get checking accounts or monthly mailed statements, they get SAVINGS PASSBOOKS where all the transactions are printed either at ATMs or at the bank counter. This is what you show immigration to show your bank money, a copy of your bank book. You also need to get an official letter from the bank very soon before your extension appointments, the balance shown on th letter must be exactly the same as in the book

-- if you do need to prove 3 month seasoning, you are not allowed to go even one baht below 800K for the three month period before the extension appointment, so if you are using this account for spending as is usual, you really need that account to be 800K plus 3 months spending practically speaking

-- make sure to set up wire arrangements with your US banks before you leave or you probably will not be able to make SWIFT wire transfers from the US to Thailand from Thailand

-- with an O-A there is a "special trick" where if you leave and return to Thaland using the correct timing, you get I think a FULL extra year without having to go through a formal extension the first time after you use the initial O-A period only. You will really want to learn about this, ask here, I can't explain that one as I didn't use an O-A.

yes, my income will only last a few years. then it will be bank balance only.

Using the combo or income is not an issue at all.

Sorry - Again, if I have a savings acc with a passbook and use an atm, how would it show up on the passbook?

[JimGant]

I want to apply for the O-A visa and i've read for hours, and even called the embassy.........ALSO, i have tried talking to consulate(s) and they tell me to talk to immigration when I get there regarding the renewal.

Yes, I'm sure they did, since you seem to be on 3 different sheets of music. If you're trying to get an "O-A" visa, what exactly is it you're trying to "renew?" Or are you trying to get a "retirement extension?" If so, then you don't need an O-A visa. But, since you're currently in the US, exactly what kind of visa will you get before heading back to Thailand? Or will you go back "visa exempt?" Each option brings its own advice.

You're not the first to get hung up on terminology. But your confusion doesn't help us help you.

[Jingthing]

Sorry - Again, if I have a savings acc with a passbook and use an atm, how would it show up on the passbook?

This is used to show your bank activity later on when you are doing extensions based on retirement in Thailand. You open a Thai bank account. They give you an old fashioned savings account passbook and also an ATM card. The passbook is your bank record. You get prints of updates at the bank's ATMs that are designed to do that and/or also just by walking into any branch and handing it the customer service clerk. Every transaction shows up in the book, transfers, fees, ATM withdrawals, interest, etc.

JimGant brings up another subject. You do not need to start with an O-A from the US. You can if you want. You can also start with a regular O visa obtained in the US from a consulate (embassy won't give if you mention retirement), a neighboring country, or you can even convert a 30 day stamp or tourist visa with at least 21 days left IN Thailand. Lots of options.

[jbeck]

I want to apply for the O-A visa and i've read for hours, and even called the embassy.........ALSO, i have tried talking to consulate(s) and they tell me to talk to immigration when I get there regarding the renewal.

Yes, I'm sure they did, since you seem to be on 3 different sheets of music. If you're trying to get an "O-A" visa, what exactly is it you're trying to "renew?" Or are you trying to get a "retirement extension?" If so, then you don't need an O-A visa. But, since you're currently in the US, exactly what kind of visa will you get before heading back to Thailand? Or will you go back "visa exempt?" Each option brings its own advice.

You're not the first to get hung up on terminology. But your confusion doesn't help us help you.

I'm getting an OA longstay retirement visa in the US, for entry into thailand in Jan 2009.

I don't have questions about that anymore.

I'll be renewing it, extending it, every year, forever, I hope.

My questions regard the specific details on requirements for having funds, type of accounts, balance and time periods, and exact details of presenting proof of 800000B (and not using income) - right now i was told to show a passbook, and if use an ATM, how does immigration know if my account was not frozen at 800000B for 3 months? Also I am told I need a letter from that bank - is that where they say my account never dipped below the required amount for the previous 3 months? I was hoping someone who has actually extended an OA visa could respond with personal experience.

Thank you very much!

[jbeck]

Sorry - Again, if I have a savings acc with a passbook and use an atm, how would it show up on the passbook?

This is used to show your bank activity later on when you are doing extensions based on retirement in Thailand. You open a Thai bank account. They give you an old fashioned savings account passbook and also an ATM card. The passbook is your bank record. You get prints of updates at the bank's ATMs that are designed to do that and/or also just by walking into any branch and handing it the customer service clerk. Every transaction shows up in the book, transfers, fees, ATM withdrawals, interest, etc.

JimGant brings up another subject. You do not need to start with an O-A from the US. You can if you want. You can also start with a regular O visa obtained in the US from a consulate (embassy won't give if you mention retirement), a neighboring country, or you can even convert a 30 day stamp or tourist visa with at least 21 days left IN Thailand. Lots of options.

Seriously, if I have a passbook in my hand and use an ATM, how are you saying the activity gets printed into the passbook? Are you saying I write it in myself? That would explain it.

Have I missed something - Is there a reason I would not want an OA visa from the US, and one of the other types?

Thank you very much. Kop khun maak.

[Jingthing]

Doing annual extensions if you initially used an O-A is EXACTLY the same as doing annual extensions if you initially had an O. The only difference is that ONE TIME trick I mentioned gets you your first time extra year stamp on the O-A without any application. You would be well advised to find out about that "trick" because it is one of the big perks of bothering to go the O-A route. The O-A route has extra requirements, a medical form and a police clearance report that are not required if you begin the process in Thailand. Of course O-As are only issued in your home country. Many find the O-A too much of a hassle but it has another advantage, you don't need to have money in Thai bank account until your first extension using the bank account in Thailand. Personally, I didn't bother with the O-A, it is your choice.

Updating passbooks is a separate action from using an ATM card. You update it periodically at your convenience. There are sometime machines adjacent to the ATM machines that are passbook update printers. you just enter your ATM, code, stick in the book, and it prints. You never write anything in your passbook yourself! You can also get a print update at any branch.

Like this at a machine:

The letter from the bank is usually in Thai and is official verfication of your current balance. The passbook shows you account activity, the officer will examine the copy of it to determine that you haven't gone under 800K within 3 months.

[jbeck]

I am getting an OA visa before I enter the country and plan to stay indefinitely.

I was told about a one time trick - these are from a previous thread:

"The ONE TIME trick I mentioned gets you your first time extra year stamp on the O-A without any application. You would be well advised to find out about that "trick" because it is one of the big perks of bothering to go the O-A route."

"-- with an O-A there is a "special trick" where if you leave and return to Thaland using the correct timing, you get I think a FULL extra year without having to go through a formal extension the first time after you use the initial O-A period only. You will really want to learn about this, ask here, I can't explain that one as I didn't use an O-A."

Can anyone explain more about this and exactly how to go about it?

Thanks,

Jeff Beck

Hawaii

[JimGant]

I'm getting an OA longstay retirement visa in the US, for entry into thailand in Jan 2009.

I don't have questions about that anymore. - I expect to be cutting it very close, and probably won't be able to tie money up in a CD.

How "cutting it very close?" If you come in on an O-A in Jan 2009, you'll be stamped in until Jan 2010. So the earliest you'll have to deal with Immigration for a retirement extension of stay is no earlier than sometime in Dec 2009. If it's a multiple entry O-A, you'll have the option of not seeing Immigration until over 2-years from today. (I'm assuming you haven't gotten your O-A visa, so we're talking about doing a border run right before its expiration date 1-year+ hence, thus another 1-year permitted to stay stamp upon re-entering Thailand.)

Anyway, a lot can change between now and when you first apply for a retirement extension from Thai Immigration. But, using today's rules, yes, you'll need a minimum of 800k maintained for the 3-months leading up to your extension application. For sure, a savings account will be accepted. Some have used fixed accounts, which pay higher interest, but not all Immigration offices/officers have accepted these. Foreign Currency account in a Thai bank? I don't know whether these have ever been accepted or not.

And if you go the combo route, the certified "income" doesn't have to be earned income. It can be investment income, amortization of principal, loan from Aunt Agnes -- virtually any type of cash flow. So whatever you're living on, with the difference made up by a bank deposit, gets you off the hook for the 3-months in the bank requirement (assuming this cash flow isn't ridiculously low.....).

Oh, you couldn't find the rule for the 800k in the bank? Look in the pinned section, above, in the 'Useful Immigration' entry, Police Order 606/2549, Case 7.21

[jbeck]

I'm getting an OA longstay retirement visa in the US, for entry into thailand in Jan 2009.

I don't have questions about that anymore. - I expect to be cutting it very close, and probably won't be able to tie money up in a CD.

How "cutting it very close?" If you come in on an O-A in Jan 2009, you'll be stamped in until Jan 2010. So the earliest you'll have to deal with Immigration for a retirement extension of stay is no earlier than sometime in Dec 2009. If it's a multiple entry O-A, you'll have the option of not seeing Immigration until over 2-years from today. (I'm assuming you haven't gotten your O-A visa, so we're talking about doing a border run right before its expiration date 1-year+ hence, thus another 1-year permitted to stay stamp upon re-entering Thailand.)

Anyway, a lot can change between now and when you first apply for a retirement extension from Thai Immigration. But, using today's rules, yes, you'll need a minimum of 800k maintained for the 3-months leading up to your extension application. For sure, a savings account will be accepted. Some have used fixed accounts, which pay higher interest, but not all Immigration offices/officers have accepted these. Foreign Currency account in a Thai bank? I don't know whether these have ever been accepted or not.

And if you go the combo route, the certified "income" doesn't have to be earned income. It can be investment income, amortization of principal, loan from Aunt Agnes -- virtually any type of cash flow. So whatever you're living on, with the difference made up by a bank deposit, gets you off the hook for the 3-months in the bank requirement (assuming this cash flow isn't ridiculously low.....).

Oh, you couldn't find the rule for the 800k in the bank? Look in the pinned section, above, in the 'Useful Immigration' entry, Police Order 606/2549, Case 7.21

thanks. You say I can ask for a multiple entry OA, then at the end of one year, just do a border run?

But: From the Los Angeles Royal thai consulate website OA Visa Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A”: $ 65 fee for a single-entry ONLY, no multiple-entry.

I also called the thai embassy in washington and they could not say if there is/isn't a multiple entry OA.

thank you,

jeff

[dotcom]

To clarify Jing's comment.

Every single transaction done in your savings account gets stamped in your passbook; both the transaction & the resulting balance. This is an automated process & it is done by a passbook printer attached to the banks computer.

And if your balance falls below 800k Immigration officials will see it.

[RogerL]

My wife and I just got our US passports back from the Royal Thai Counsel General in Chicago. We specified multiple reentry on our retirement visa application forms and enclosed two cashier checks for US$175 each . Got passports back as O-A with multiple reentry.

Do not know if all their Counsel offices follow the same rule book.

[JimGant]

The LA Consulate is the only one that publishes that their O-A visas are "single entry" only. And, the Thai Embassy DC has a rough track record on visa issue -- with me and many others.

On the other end of the spectrum, as previously mentioned, honorary consulates are user friendly. In particular, Houston has an excellent record, and they can handle everything by mail. Call them on the phone. They moonlight out of a lawyer's office (nothing in life is perfect), speak English (well, Texan), and are more than willing to help you out.

Chicago has also gotten a couple of kudos from friends of mine, and nice to see an MFA consulate getting kudos (LA and New York are the other MFA consulates, with LA having, by far, the worst 'user friendly' track record).

[For RogerL: How stiff were their certification requirements? Did you need State Dept certification, notarization, or what on your bank/income, health, and police records? Or did 'official looking' paperwork do the trick? Thanx]

You say I can ask for a multiple entry OA, then at the end of one year, just do a border run?

Search this forum on 'O-A.' Plenty of threads addressing this in detail. But, in short, yes. An O-A gives you a "365 day permitted to stay" stamp every time you enter Thailand -- as long as the visa is valid. And since a multiple entry Non Imm O-A visa is valid for one year, then, if you do a border run near its expiration date, you'll get stamped back in for 365 days. Voila. Nearly 2 years of living in Thailand, with only one border run in the middle, and no visits to Immigration (if you mail in your 90 day reporting).

[Crossy]

Not exactly a trick and it only works if you have received a multi-entry non-OA.

Each time you enter the country you receive a permit to stay stamp for one year provided you are entering before the 'enter before' date on your visa. If you do a border hop just before your visa expires (before the 'enter before' date) you'll get another year stamp meaning that you cab get two years out of your OA.

IMPORTANT. Once your visa has passed the 'enter before' date you will need a re-entry permit if you intend leaving the country.

The same idea works for other multi-entry non-immigrant visas, but these only give you a stamp for 90 days on entry limiting their life to a stay of just under 15 months.

[Lite Beer]

Two Threads merged as both on the same subject by the same OP.

[jbeck]

Two Threads merged as both on the same subject by the same OP.

i just called the consulate in honolulu and she said all their OA visas are issued as multiple entry. She also said that whomever stamped you (or anyone who did this successfully) for another year - is a mistake by immigration as they are supposed to get all the 'normal' renewal documentation. So perhaps they're not equiped to do that at the border re-enty location and take the easy solution.

Is the 'enter before' date the same as the 'expires' date or are there actually 2 different dates stamped in to the passport?

Also I read on this forum, and the consulate website, that you must request a re-entry permit under any circumstance of leaving the country, or your current stamp will be invalidated. It was one of the few things I thought was crystal clear.

I'm talking here about renewals, just to clarify.

thanks

jeff

[RogerL]

For JimGant:

For money end: Had a notarized statement of retirement income from past employer; notarized copy of net worth from my investment firm; notarized statement of funds on hand at my bank. Probably overkill but did not want to leave any room for possible rejection on application.

For criminal record check: Notarized "no record" statement from Michigan State Police (live in Michigan)

For medical: Had mini-physical and TB check done by my personal physician who filled in medical form and notarized. It was how the doctor wanted to handle it.

Did not have any interaction with the US Department of State.

The Chicago Counsel web site says they have a one week turn around on applications. After two weeks in their hands I called to check on status and was told would process in a day or two. It was a three week turnaround from date they received the application. Lucky I did not need my passport for anything. I think maybe they just wanted to date it two weeks before I leave for Thailand - did not ask them the question.

Whenever I called them I was able to get questions answered fairly well. Sometimes asked the question several different ways to be sure they understood what I was asking and I was understanding their answer. They did not seem to respond to e-mail (at all).

[Lite Beer]

As Crossy said. With a Multi Entry O-A Visa each entry is for 12 months. So if you leave and come back again just before it expires you will get another year.

A Re Entry permit would not be needed for the first year but would be for the second.

The Visa will usually have "Enter before" on it.

When the second year is finnished you apply for a 12 month extension at Immigration in Thailand.

[Crossy]

i just called the consulate in honolulu and she said all their OA visas are issued as multiple entry. She also said that whomever stamped you (or anyone who did this successfully) for another year - is a mistake by immigration as they are supposed to get all the 'normal' renewal documentation. So perhaps they're not equiped to do that at the border re-enty location and take the easy solution. Consulates / Embassies rarely have full information on border policies, it is totally normal for OA multi holders to get a 1 year stamp every time they enter, even the day before their visa expires.

Is the 'enter before' date the same as the 'expires' date or are there actually 2 different dates stamped in to the passport? Same thing, the wording varies but means the same thing, it is the date on the visa itself that is important and you must enter BEFORE that date to be entitled to visa entry

Also I read on this forum, and the consulate website, that you must request a re-entry permit under any circumstance of leaving the country, or your current stamp will be invalidated. It was one of the few things I thought was crystal clear. If your visa is still valid for entry then a re-entry permit is not required, once the visa has expired (or been stamped 'used' if it is a single entry) you need the re-entry permit to keep your permit to stay alive.

I'm talking here about renewals, just to clarify.

[ubonjoe]

I would double check the consulates statement that all their OA's are multiple entries. Of course when you apply you will know that when you pay the fee if it's less than $175 you are getting a single entry.

[Mario2008]

Crossy gave the right information. As long as the OA visa is valid you don't need re-entry permit to come and go.

[Jingthing]

I regret using the word "trick" to describe the method where you can get an extra year's stamp out of the initial O-A visa. Trick might be taken as to imply a scam or skirting the rules. Perhaps think of it as an extra benefit, perk, or feature of the O-A visa. I agree that consulate staff are a very poor source of info about what happens visa-wise once you are actually in Thailand. It is out of the area of their knowledge and expertise. Much better to ask on this website.

[Maestro]

I understand that honorary consulates are no longer allowed to issue the non-OA visa (retirement visa)

--

Maestro