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How Much Medical Cover Do You Have ?


torrenova

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There have been some reports of late with people not having enough insurance and running out. This caused me to think carefully about how much we should have.

There is my missus, 14 month old baby and me.

What gets me is that I don't really have any idea of what costs could be if you got sick and needed some treatment or an operation. I'm not talking about the sub 100k costs here but the big stuff.

I'm also worried that some statements like lifetime limits are to be avoided but how do you know if you have enough cover unless it is unlimited and yet be covered for most if not all things.

Also, there is always a trade off between cost and limits but how can you choose if you don't know the prices ?

Ay comments welcome and advise especially.

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i dont know torrenova,but like you i think its scary and have been pondering what to do,imho i have n't seen a policy that will cover 100%,but i would like one that will pay the hospital bill for you.I looked at one policy coming from the UK,I think the name of the co.is walkers at my age 59 its expensive 60,000 baht per year,it also covers you while out of thailand for emergencies up to 75%.am currently looking at just accident cover you know if you are injured in a car accident,motor bike or hit by either,and on samui the liklihood of this happening is quite high,i will keep you posted if i find some good hospital cover.One thing for is the premium is a lot less for joint family,and if you are young.

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i dont know torrenova,but like you i think its scary and have been pondering what to do,imho i have n't seen a policy that will cover 100%,but i would like one that will pay the hospital bill for you.I looked at one policy coming from the UK,I think the name of the co.is walkers at my age 59 its expensive 60,000 baht per year,it also covers you while out of thailand for emergencies up to 75%.am currently looking at just accident cover you know if you are injured in a car accident,motor bike or hit by either,and on samui the liklihood of this happening is quite high,i will keep you posted if i find some good hospital cover.One thing for is the premium is a lot less for joint family,and if you are young.

This may sound silly but, depending on what you want to insure (i.e. In Patient or Out Patient, if you are happy with an excess etc etc.) Thai Visa Insurance can offer 5m Baht of (100%) cover for a sensible premium with payment direct to hospitals – unlike UK companies who you will have problems with contacting and authorizing in an emergency.

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This may sound silly but, depending on what you want to insure (i.e. In Patient or Out Patient, if you are happy with an excess etc etc.) Thai Visa Insurance can offer 5m Baht of (100%) cover for a sensible premium with payment direct to hospitals – unlike UK companies who you will have problems with contacting and authorizing in an emergency.

I know you can and without wanting to just knock you back then that policy must be with one company and I want let's say all policies by all companies. I don't want to say "I want this much" or "I want to pay this much", I am quite capable of assessing the various merits of policies but where are they ?

Now if I want this in the UK I guess either a comparison site or an email to each company which I thought of good standing would have their policy details winging their way back to me by email. How do we do that here ? Do you have all policies available with all current premiums in electronic form ? Are you willing to send us a list of all the companies you recommend ?

You see the thing is that like motor insurance, you stick in an excess and see how the premium changes. You change cover levels and see what the total costs are. Trying to keep altering things one at a time would be a great waste of your resources TV.

Anyway, where do we get the figures of what hospitals cost for certain things. In your opening sentence you state you can cover up to Bt5m but how do we know whether that is too much or not enough ? One time limit, annual or lifetime ?

Often I think insurance is a trade off between cost and the level of cover. What you don't want is to pay $25 (just a number) when for $30 you can have a much better policy. However, if you say you will only pay $25 then you will not hear about the $30 policy.

So are there interactive websites here ? Does anyone have the policies by email. Does anyone have a list of the recommended companies we can contact ? Etc.

Thanks.

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Have a look at William Russell in the UK. They have a number of different levels of coverage & differing amounts of excess. They also have an age related no claims system, if you do not claim, your premium stays in the age bracket at which you started. I have used them for 7 years & have juggled the excess according to my needs. As so far I have not made a claim, next year my premium will be 50% below what it would be if I were to join now at my current age! This is my 'big problem' fall back medical cover for somthing big, to avoid losing my no claims status I accept I will pay myself for the small stuff (although at some stage I might get local BUPA for that). I went through the details of most of the big international insurers & they came out best for my specs.

This may sound silly but, depending on what you want to insure (i.e. In Patient or Out Patient, if you are happy with an excess etc etc.) Thai Visa Insurance can offer 5m Baht of (100%) cover for a sensible premium with payment direct to hospitals – unlike UK companies who you will have problems with contacting and authorizing in an emergency.

I know you can and without wanting to just knock you back then that policy must be with one company and I want let's say all policies by all companies. I don't want to say "I want this much" or "I want to pay this much", I am quite capable of assessing the various merits of policies but where are they ?

Now if I want this in the UK I guess either a comparison site or an email to each company which I thought of good standing would have their policy details winging their way back to me by email. How do we do that here ? Do you have all policies available with all current premiums in electronic form ? Are you willing to send us a list of all the companies you recommend ?

You see the thing is that like motor insurance, you stick in an excess and see how the premium changes. You change cover levels and see what the total costs are. Trying to keep altering things one at a time would be a great waste of your resources TV.

Anyway, where do we get the figures of what hospitals cost for certain things. In your opening sentence you state you can cover up to Bt5m but how do we know whether that is too much or not enough ? One time limit, annual or lifetime ?

Often I think insurance is a trade off between cost and the level of cover. What you don't want is to pay $25 (just a number) when for $30 you can have a much better policy. However, if you say you will only pay $25 then you will not hear about the $30 policy.

So are there interactive websites here ? Does anyone have the policies by email. Does anyone have a list of the recommended companies we can contact ? Etc.

Thanks.

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A local Thai BUPA agent I was talking to showed me her current list of the charges (e.g. private room and ICU per day) for the major hospitals in my area. Or, pick a hospital in which you would like to end up should things go pear-shaped (for you or yours), and go ask them what they charge. Daily rate X days of expected stay would give a basis to answer your Q "how much cover do I need?". Add in some surgery fees and you have some idea of cost.

As pointed out above, there are Thai-based policies and there are overseas-based policies. I'm in same boat as you, and now considering what to go for. One Q is how much cover outside of LoS might you need?

AIA only offers health insurance to expats with work permits.

Muang Thai, and others, offer health insurance on the back of a life assurance policy. You get half your money back from the assurance premiums after some years (e.g. 8, 10, 12). But the health insurance is cheap(-er), but the cover ain't great.

Thai Pragaan Sukapaap (same as Thai Pragaan Chewit, I believe) offers straight health ins, and is offered via Thai-Visa.com by AA Ins Brokers. However, I can't figure how the deal offered via AA maps onto what TPS offers on its website. I must give them a call, or perhaps AA will read this and advise.

For me. Goodhealth, Allianz and o/seas BUPA etc are off the cost richter scale. But Exeter Friendly Society looks interesting for UK-based o/seas cover.

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Real HEALTH insurance plans/policies are sort of like post paid Mobile Phone Contracts/plans. What might be a great provider with good "cell sites" and excellent mobile phone coverage with the number of minutes you need at a good price ONE YEAR, might be poor choice in comparison to what service and minutes you can get the next year from a different mobile phone company. But the PHONE company does not contact you to say they have a cheaper plan with suitable minutes. You have to research it.

I have paid for health insurance for myself, my wife and our daughter for four years. I contacted and looked a possible HEALTH INSURANCE policies from three agents in 2005. My choices of companies was somewhat limited since I checked to see which Insurance company was direct bill for OUT PATIENT coverage at our local Private hospital. The list of Insurance companies with DIRECT BILL at that hospital has since added BUPA. Well in our case, the OUT PATIENT coverage, of our in-patient and out-patient policy with THAI HEALTH INSURANCE was a poor choice and it did not pencil out. I was warned by the agent it would not be the best choice. However towards the end of our 2nd year with Thai Health Insurance a 9 hour IN PATIENT visit with some tests at BUMRUNGRAD Luxury Hotel/hospital cost MORE than a TWO years premium for my wife. Through the valuable help of the agent Eric in Phuket, the billing department of the hospital worked with the Insurance company and I only paid a minor part which Thai Health Insurance claimed was a pre-existing health condition. I paid less than 10% of the bill out of pocket due to this "pre-existing situation" so I could not complain.

My daughter has never used the coverage as we have been blessed with a healthy child and I have had zero in-patient claims and only a few out patient claims the one year I had out patient coverage. Out patient coverage might not be a good use of money in Thailand, compared to the USA.

But in 2007 we switched to BUPA after comparing three companies. The policy information and quotes are in Thai and English. The HOSPITAL AND CLINIC LIST is in Thai and English. For IN PATIENT coverage I actually have:

Male age 54 2,000,000 Hospital max on the PLATINUM PLAN

Female age 39 2,000,000 Hospital max on the Platinum plan

girl age 13 500,000 on a smaller plan

All the information on various plan benefits and limits are on the web site of Bupa in Thailand. www.bupa.co.th

I get 10% discount since we joined as a family.

With tax I paid 66,461 baht for a family of three. That is $158 USD a month for great health insurance and it includes some over seas coverage if we travel out of Thailand.

And six months after the recent policy renewal we get a 10% REFUND due to a no claims discount.

I live Up Country and can easily pay out of pocket for any out patient visits.

But ONE short trip to Bumrungrad shocked me to how expensive "big city" Thailand hospitals can cost AND I saw the value of a native English speaking agent dealing with the insurance company.

Perhaps if you contact Tony Dabbs, Eric at Insurance-IN-Thailand or the fine forum sponsor THAI VISA INSURANCE you can sit down and look at your e-mailed quotes and policies.

I also think that in Thailand if you do not have a "Health insurance card" in your wallet you will have a "slow" hospital admittance. It is not the "Sisters of Mercy" running the good hospitals in Thailand, they are "for profit" companies.

It costs nothing to get some quotes from English speaking agents. Calling the Insurance company DIRECT is a frustrating experience.

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What gets me is that I don't really have any idea of what costs could be if you got sick and needed some treatment or an operation. I'm not talking about the sub 100k costs here but the big stuff.

I'm also worried that some statements like lifetime limits are to be avoided but how do you know if you have enough cover unless it is unlimited and yet be covered for most if not all things.

Also, there is always a trade off between cost and limits but how can you choose if you don't know the prices ?

Want "big stuff"?

Me and my family are insured through Aetna (before it was Cigna) and monthly cost is 1140US$. Yes, over 1 thousand $ a month. Check those that pop up through Google, top insurance (where you never pay anything) is about 1000$ a month, one quoted me 2000$ a month for world wide coverage.

Of course, my company pays for it and still paying.

Now that we are in Japan, we all have Japan national health insurance, that's what I pay off my salary 400$ a month or so. No extra money would land you in a hospital better than national health property.

There is some token participation (root canal therapy, 4 visits, each visit 4 (four) $).Kids under 12 get everything totally free. When you think what killed GM, Ford and Chrysler, it was non existent health insurance in the US, the three were paying more for health insurance for their workers than for steel to make cars. Toyota and other JPs had national scheme and no health burden.

Now, to health insurance in Thailand. Those that I have checked usually meant you never get anything from them.

For example, you are covered for open heart surgery but for anythings smaller and more likely, you pay first 3000B. That's pretty much all you will ever need and never get anything out.

Look at this: BUPA: to cover 40% of baby's birth (in my case it was 120K baht at Samitivej so the coverage would have been 45K baht) we had to:

1. be legally married

2. join BUPA at the same time

4. pay 37K baht (combined) per month for at least 2 years

Nearly 900K baht for what? To get 45K back when your baby is born (and still pay first 3000B).

The numbers above are 6 years old, may be a bit different now but the priniple has not changed.

When looking for insurance, check that excess limit first.

Edited by think_too_mut
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What gets me is that I don't really have any idea of what costs could be if you got sick and needed some treatment or an operation. I'm not talking about the sub 100k costs here but the big stuff.

I'm also worried that some statements like lifetime limits are to be avoided but how do you know if you have enough cover unless it is unlimited and yet be covered for most if not all things.

Also, there is always a trade off between cost and limits but how can you choose if you don't know the prices ?

Want "big stuff"?

Me and my family are insured through Aetna (before it was Cigna) and monthly cost is 1140US$. Yes, over 1 thousand $ a month. Check those that pop up through Google, top insurance (where you never pay anything) is about 1000$ a month, one quoted me 2000$ a month for world wide coverage.

Of course, my company pays for it and still paying.

Now that we are in Japan, we all have Japan national health insurance, that's what I pay off my salary 400$ a month or so. No extra money would land you in a hospital better than national health property.

There is some token participation (root canal therapy, 4 visits, each visit 4 (four) $).Kids under 12 get everything totally free. When you think what killed GM, Ford and Chrysler, it was non existent health insurance in the US, the three were paying more for health insurance for their workers than for steel to make cars. Toyota and other JPs had national scheme and no health burden.

Now, to health insurance in Thailand. Those that I have checked usually meant you never get anything from them.

For example, you are covered for open heart surgery but for anythings smaller and more likely, you pay first 3000B. That's pretty much all you will ever need and never get anything out.

Look at this: BUPA: to cover 40% of baby's birth (in my case it was 120K baht at Samitivej so the coverage would have been 45K baht) we had to:

1. be legally married

2. join BUPA at the same time

4. pay 37K baht (combined) per month for at least 2 years

Nearly 900K baht for what? To get 45K back when your baby is born (and still pay first 3000B).

The numbers above are 6 years old, may be a bit different now but the priniple has not changed.

When looking for insurance, check that excess limit first.

37 k Baht a month? I have used the BUPA Emerald plan for 4 years. Single: 15 k a year. Child, wife and me: 35 k a year. And they only have a 10+ months quarantine period for child delivery coverance - In my case I was stupid not to buy it: One month later my wife wife was pregnant again, and for around 10-15 k the birth would have been covered.

All three of us have been hospitalised in the last 2 years, and never a problem with BUPA (exept from a few k Baht because the hospitals are greedy).

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I have LMG Pacific health insurance. I am covered for 1.25 million baht per occurrence. I have had one claim for appendicitis. The bill was about 49,000 baht. The insurance paid all except 15 baht. That 15 baht was for a Coke that my wife had. I am now 63 years old and probably too old to ever get insurance with another company. I forgot what the age limits are but if you have the policy continuously year after year, they won't cancel you. Last year my premium was about 22,000 baht.

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37 k Baht a month? I have used the BUPA Emerald plan for 4 years. Single: 15 k a year. Child, wife and me: 35 k a year. And they only have a 10+ months quarantine period for child delivery coverance - In my case I was stupid not to buy it: One month later my wife wife was pregnant again, and for around 10-15 k the birth would have been covered.

All three of us have been hospitalised in the last 2 years, and never a problem with BUPA (exept from a few k Baht because the hospitals are greedy).

Yes, 37K baht. It was 22K for me and 15K per month for wife (then not married). Until we left Thailand back in September I still had that glossy brochure somewhere.

BUPA, a British company, has similar price for same insurance that I have with company and Aetna now - over 1100US$ per month. Those 37K baht per month BUPA quoted us 6 years ago are just about there.

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37 k Baht a month? I have used the BUPA Emerald plan for 4 years. Single: 15 k a year. Child, wife and me: 35 k a year. And they only have a 10+ months quarantine period for child delivery coverance - In my case I was stupid not to buy it: One month later my wife wife was pregnant again, and for around 10-15 k the birth would have been covered.

All three of us have been hospitalised in the last 2 years, and never a problem with BUPA (exept from a few k Baht because the hospitals are greedy).

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on a couple of points.

During the last 4 years, how have your premiums increased ?

Why did BUPA not pay your bills in full ? Did you expect they would or did you choose the most expensive hospitals ? If in a "cheap" area and BUPA were not sufficient, then how would such a policy cope in an "expensive" area with more expensive hospitals ?

Thanks

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If you look at the www.bupathailand.com web site and PRINT OUT the various "table of benefits" you will see that Emerald is NOT the top range of the "Personal Care" four plans. That is the plan I have for my daughter. You can see what is covered and the limits. I think it is a good value given her medical history.

My wife and I have the middle of the PLATINUM plans (2 million) and you can obtain FIVE MILLION baht coverage with a more expensive PLATINUM plan. All of the different plans list limits on hospital room payments, etc... The plan CAN cost more some years as you get older, but family discounts and no claims discounts are possible.

It certainly is worth looking on the BUPA web site and printing out the "table of benefits". There is a FIVE PAGE list of hospitals in Thailand you can print out in ENGLISH that accept direct bill with BUPA at that web site.

It does not cost you any additional money to buy your insurance through an agent in Thailand. But an INDEPENDENT agent who has YOU as a client and YOUR interests at heart, in my opinion can be of valuable service. Dealing direct with Insurance Companies (or a captive agent who only sells policies for one firm) in Thailand is not fun.

Buying Insurance is about calculated risks and weighing your financial options. If you go to a "cheap" hospital then as a general rule, cheaper insurance (lower benefits) would cover your stay. If you want to be a patient at Bumrungrad or BNH or the "His So" hotels/hospitals be prepared to "step up" and have a good credit card limit and/or SERIOUS INSURANCE benefit levels.

But frankly because of the lower staff costs, lower liability costs, even the top flight hospitals in Thailand are considerable less for the same procedures than most Western Nations. So maybe my 2 million baht of coverage could get eaten up fast at Stanford Hospital or John Hopkins in the USA, I am banking on it covering me in at ANY Thailand hospital.

I'll certainly post after I use BUPA for in patient coverage. Yes if a "guest" orders food and drinks when the insured person is in the hospital it will be on your bill.

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37 k Baht a month? I have used the BUPA Emerald plan for 4 years. Single: 15 k a year. Child, wife and me: 35 k a year. And they only have a 10+ months quarantine period for child delivery coverance - In my case I was stupid not to buy it: One month later my wife wife was pregnant again, and for around 10-15 k the birth would have been covered.

All three of us have been hospitalised in the last 2 years, and never a problem with BUPA (exept from a few k Baht because the hospitals are greedy).

Would you be so kind as to elaborate on a couple of points.

During the last 4 years, how have your premiums increased ?

Why did BUPA not pay your bills in full ? Did you expect they would or did you choose the most expensive hospitals ? If in a "cheap" area and BUPA were not sufficient, then how would such a policy cope in an "expensive" area with more expensive hospitals ?

Thanks

For me: around 12000 in 2004, now around 17000. Wife in in 2006 on around 12000+. Daughter in on around 15000 in 2007.

Last time discount for 3 persons. Result: Around 37k a YEAR (at least less than 40k, I cannot remember exactly).

If you get a child, the child cannot be insured before 15 days of age, AND if your child is not insured at the same time as the rest of the family - no discount for the new child (first year).

Reason for paying a few k myself: Expensive room (3000 a day), some nursing costs not covered in the plan, double tests, a shitload of medicines to bring home, bla. bla. bla.

The point is: BUPA has paid for us around 2-300k for two hospitalisations for my daughter, one for my wife and one for me. I have payed in total maybe 10-20k directly. I don't have the energy to fuk up the hospital (Aek Udon) or BUPA for a few thousand Baht. I am happy they still want to insure us (knock wood) ...

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Hi,

I'm taking the train moving... I have to say that I'm in the same case, Torrenova. What is the "good" quote for the "good" benefits...

As I'm french, back there the "health care system" is totaly different. You never worry about "how much", because, as you work, you are systematicaly insured on an average of 75% of all the costs for whatever can happen. The average 25% up can be covered by a low cost personnal care plan.

So it's very difficult for me to choose what should be good enough, here in LOS...

I went already to "my" bank, the Bangkok Bank, but they only sell life insurance including health care. And life insurance I've got already better ones back in France...

And thanks to you all, I've just mailed to BUPA, here in CNX, for more details on the different plans...

I stay in contact...

Cheers,

Gobs

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Hi,

I'm taking the train moving... I have to say that I'm in the same case, Torrenova. What is the "good" quote for the "good" benefits...

As I'm french, back there the "health care system" is totaly different. You never worry about "how much", because, as you work, you are systematicaly insured on an average of 75% of all the costs for whatever can happen. The average 25% up can be covered by a low cost personnal care plan.

So it's very difficult for me to choose what should be good enough, here in LOS...

I went already to "my" bank, the Bangkok Bank, but they only sell life insurance including health care. And life insurance I've got already better ones back in France...

And thanks to you all, I've just mailed to BUPA, here in CNX, for more details on the different plans...

I stay in contact...

Cheers,

Gobs

As you may have trouble getting the information we have sent you a PM with BUPA and the AXA plans (to compare) for you to peruse.

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We Belgians have something nice called "Overseas Social Security Office" (or DOSZ - OSSOM) Strange enough, many expat's don't know about it and keep on paying for these silly health insurances.

In a nutshell, it works like this : In Belgium, we have a very good social security system. If you move to another country, you can voluntarily choose to stay in this system and continue to pay premiums. You will later receive a retirement pension, and your (and your family's) medical costs are covered for 75% of the paid amount (no limit). After retirement age, you stop paying premiums but will still be insured for the rest of your life.

The current cost for this is 127 euro/month per family. Including the "retirement pension part" and some additional insurances, I pay in total around 400 euro/month.

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I use Aetna insurance which I am very pleased with, covered for 1 million Pound Sterling worldwide including USA. When I had to use it at Bangkok Rayong hospital they paid direct without any hassle at all. It really depends of your age and so on for a price so you need to ask them for a quote, you can find them online. It pays my medicine and all very good, and I have only good experience with them :o

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I use Aetna insurance which I am very pleased with, covered for 1 million Pound Sterling worldwide including USA. When I had to use it at Bangkok Rayong hospital they paid direct without any hassle at all. It really depends of your age and so on for a price so you need to ask them for a quote, you can find them online. It pays my medicine and all very good, and I have only good experience with them :o

Post #9 we spoke about that. Hardly an invention.

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  • 3 weeks later...
We Belgians have something nice called "Overseas Social Security Office" (or DOSZ - OSSOM) Strange enough, many expat's don't know about it and keep on paying for these silly health insurances.

In a nutshell, it works like this : In Belgium, we have a very good social security system. If you move to another country, you can voluntarily choose to stay in this system and continue to pay premiums. You will later receive a retirement pension, and your (and your family's) medical costs are covered for 75% of the paid amount (no limit). After retirement age, you stop paying premiums but will still be insured for the rest of your life.

The current cost for this is 127 euro/month per family. Including the "retirement pension part" and some additional insurances, I pay in total around 400 euro/month.

Opps..you call that nice? :o For the average Scandinavian that daylight robbery. My insurance cost 9000 baht/year and covers medical expenses 100% up to 10 million bath, excess 6000 baht. That insurance also covers theft up to 250 000 baht and legal protection up to 500 000 baht. (Single person).

Edited by Hawkup2000
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Opps..you call that nice? :o For the average Scandinavian that daylight robbery. My insurance cost 9000 baht/year and covers medical expenses 100% up to 10 million bath, excess 6000 baht. That insurance also covers theft up to 250 000 baht and legal protection up to 500 000 baht. (Single person).

Could you share the name of the insurance company that offers such an inexpensive plan, either here or PM me.

Thanks

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I, as a single male, am considering LMG maxicare plan but their lifetime limit is 20,000,000 baht or under $600k US.

Although I have been in the best of health all my life, if one were to have several catastrophic health problems in the future, could that cap be easily blown using the better hospitals, given the rise in health cost in Thailand.

Edited by vagabond48
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A lot has to be down to the 'small print' when taking ot any medical insurance. So many companies have so many opt out clauses it is unreal.

I travel without medical insurance. I get checked by my Doctor in the UK once a year and go by his judgement. If he says I am fit to go, I go.

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torrenova

how much coverage do u need?

if u go to the most expensive hospitals (and in some cases they are worth the money) like Bumrungrad, Paolo Memorial, Samitivej, the Bangkok Hospital chain, and if u pay farang prices, and if they know u have insurance:

one day ICU easily 50000 B, Bangkok Trat Hospital charges this even for one day in the normal ward (upcountry is not cheaper than Bangkok, just not as good)

with a serious condition, u may need 2 or 3 weeks ICU, more is rare

add operation cost: some broken bones several 100000 B, a heart operation around 500000, cath lab a bit less

if u have cancer, roughly a million for chemotherapy (this may vary a lot)

altogether, your hospital bill (per condition) usually will not exceed 1 million, in serious cases maybe 2 millions - 3 millions is rare, but it does happen

so a coverage of 3 million (per time or per year) for the three of you should be good enough, i would not recommend less

the government hospitals cost a fraction of this (like 1/5-1/7)

beware: there is no decent government hospital in Pattaya - Sattahip and Sri Racha are good, but too far in an emergency

[reason for edit: reference to another forum]

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In my case not nearly enough. Have local Thai Life, Bt22,000 per year coverage, cover about Bt70,000 if in hospital, for sure I need to go with BUPA, just no agents in my area. :o:D

Understand the lack of agents but please contact Thai Visa Insurance as they cover the whole country.

To contact TV Ins. for a BUPA and other major insurance companies quotations, please go to : http://insurance.thaivisa.com/quote-form

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