Thread in General

I thought this was quite an interesting post, but degenerated, so how do you think it will pan out?

Moss

By this stage we know that the police will not interfere with the protesters except on the most basic level.

The army is not going to come anywhere near them and most of us that live here know why but can't say it on the forum.

They will probably leave when Somchai gets back to Bangkok and go after him... if he comes back.

If he stays in Chiang Mai then it's impossible to predict the outcome. If there's a coup in Bangkok and Somchai, still in CM, refuses to accept it the civil war could well result.

They're between a rock and a hard place and have to hope like hel_l they can get the protesters out by negotiation.

A forcible extraction will get very messy, could cause extensive damage to both the airports' structures and facilities and to Thailand's reputation. Scenes of riot police smashing heads and dragging out civilians will not go down well in the world's press. The issue of who is right and who is wrong gets clouded when there's blood on the ground.

However if they do nothing it merely shows the present government in it's true colours as an incompetent, ineffectual, impotent bunch of wind bags.

Then there is the protester's trump card : the control towers. Taking the terminal will be easy compared to the towers (they may rue the day they decided to have the tallest tower in Asia) and the airport is just a field without ATC.

It's all down to a battle of wills. Has the government or the protesters got the stomach for the fight? In the showdown at high noon who wil blink first?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=132341

The government has declared a state of emergency around the two occupied Bangkok airports and police have been ordered to clear out PAD protesters so flights can resume.

LATE NEWS: Authorities have officially declared Suvarnabhumi airport closed until Saturday at 6pm at the earliest.

the fastest and easiest way is pepper gas the entire terminal, or better yet, use the anesthetic gas to knock out the protesters.

And the staff and passengers?

They're between a rock and a hard place and have to hope like hel_l they can get the protesters out by negotiation.

A forcible extraction will get very messy, could cause extensive damage to both the airports' structures and facilities and to Thailand's reputation. Scenes of riot police smashing heads and dragging out civilians will not go down well in the world's press. The issue of who is right and who is wrong gets clouded when there's blood on the ground.

However if they do nothing it merely shows the present government in it's true colours as an incompetent, ineffectual, impotent bunch of wind bags.

Then there is the protester's trump card : the control towers. Taking the terminal will be easy compared to the towers (they may rue the day they decided to have the tallest tower in Asia) and the airport is just a field without ATC.

It's all down to a battle of wills. Has the government or the protesters got the stomach for the fight? In the showdown at high noon who wil blink first?

When we were building the airport the extra-high control tower was a late addition - inspired solely by Toxin.

Due to it's possible late completion the question of ATC was raised and we were assured that the Control Tower at Don Muang could easily take in the control of Swampy as well.

So maybe the authorities should just let the protesters occupy the CT and then brick up the entrance(s)?

And the staff and passengers?

The passengers and staff are not being held hostage, so they can leave before the gas is deployed.

CNN is reporting there are no Police or Immigration officers, they can only find one AOT official and some Hajj pilgrims in the terminal.

Bet you they still don't do it though.

you guys seen this latest reuters article?

Riot police gather at besieged Thai airport

4:46am EST

By Ed Cropley

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Dozens of riot police with truncheons and shields gathered at Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi airport on Friday after talks with anti-government protesters apparently failed to end a crippling blockade.

A Reuters correspondent saw 100 police set up a perimeter at the airport headquarters building, about 300 meters (yards) from where the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protesters had besieged the main terminal.

Earlier, police said they hoped talks with protest leaders would end the siege, but warned they would "take other steps" if they failed.

"We are asking them to allow the airport to resume operations," Lieutenant-General Suchart Muenkaew, the chief police negotiator, told reporters.

"We will keep talking, but if it fails we will take other steps. The last step will be to disperse them."

This was published two hours ago

So it's getting serious. I'm arriving in BKK on the 22nd December - I hope it's sorted by then...

Lads

It's extremely serious. The PM seems to feel he has the loyalty of the RTAF and the Navy but the Army before his arrival, went National and said they would not move. Rumours abound that the " Reds" are arming and prepred to move against the " Yellows" with some form of tacit approvel, the Police Chief, dismissed. It will end in tears.

Lads

It's extremely serious. The PM seems to feel he has the loyalty of the RTAF and the Navy but the Army before his arrival, went National and said they would not move. Rumours abound that the " Reds" are arming and prepred to move against the " Yellows" with some form of tacit approvel, the Police Chief, dismissed. It will end in tears.

I think Tigs was being the 'Master of the understatement', I mentioned yesterday regarding the support of the RTAF and Navy, is there anything concrete that he has their support.

Tacit approval of who, though? If it is just the Gov't, that doesn't mean as much as if certain factions of the Police turning Nelsons Eye or actually overtly supporting such a move.

Moss

My best pal in Thailand is a fantastic, honest man who is from a very good family and is deeply concerned about splits in the Forces and what this may mean. His comments are from a Thai's point of view, dificult to verify from HK, but I would not dismiss them.

There are many structures around the airport - not just the terminal building and boarding/holding areas.

One could hide an army within a couple of hundred yards of the terminal building.

Go in with water cannon (possibly doing it the Maltese way - use raw sewage) and follow closely with overwhelming police force.

I do realise that there are women and children among the demonstrators, but if it is amnnounced beforehand that this will be a 'shock and awe' attack and that anyone who wishes can leave now - then it's on their own heads.

I have no sympathy for these people, whatever their greivances. A government was elected through the ballot box - if they don't like it, put forward better policies and get elected.

Thread in General

I thought this was quite an interesting post, but degenerated, so how do you think it will pan out?

Moss

There is only one way to successfully assault a large complex like Swampy...and that is with massive force. If there are 4,000 protesters in the airport complex, then you need 8,000 troops to overwhelm them. This is standard assault tactics.You must assume that the protesters will be armed. To assume that they are unarmed and that they will not resist is tantamount to criminal negligence on the planners part. In the case of Thailand, you would have to find 8,000 police officers or troops who have the stomach for the attack, because these things never go according to plan and often will be bloody. You organize your assault teams according to the target they are about to attack and the number of individuals you expect to confront. The physical layout of the target also must be considered. A large terminal with multiple floors will require more troops than a hangar. Everyone needs to know exactly what their job is and they must have the authority to execute the assault plan to its finite conclusion. Whenever possible it is best to have a rehearsal for the assault. When the assault occurs, it must be done quickly and violently in order to completely overwhelm the opposing force. When I heard that the Royal Thai Police had set up a roadblock with 100 police officers, I knew it was a doomed effort.

Go in with water cannon (possibly doing it the Maltese way - use raw sewage) and follow closely with overwhelming police force.

I would hate to be part of the clean up crew after that

There is only one way to successfully assault a large complex like Swampy...and that is with massive force. If there are 4,000 protesters in the airport complex, then you need 8,000 troops to overwhelm them. This is standard assault tactics.You must assume that the protesters will be armed. To assume that they are unarmed and that they will not resist is tantamount to criminal negligence on the planners part. In the case of Thailand, you would have to find 8,000 police officers or troops who have the stomach for the attack, because these things never go according to plan and often will be bloody. You organize your assault teams according to the target they are about to attack and the number of individuals you expect to confront. The physical layout of the target also must be considered. A large terminal with multiple floors will require more troops than a hangar. Everyone needs to know exactly what their job is and they must have the authority to execute the assault plan to its finite conclusion. Whenever possible it is best to have a rehearsal for the assault. When the assault occurs, it must be done quickly and violently in order to completely overwhelm the opposing force. When I heard that the Royal Thai Police had set up a roadblock with 100 police officers, I knew it was a doomed effort.

Would they just storm the terminal busting heads, or should they soften up the occupiers by using some sort of pepper/mace gas?

I agree they have to use overwhelming force, but I believe they have to use something to cause discomfort/confusion first. Maybe stun grenades with pepper gas immediately following. And water cannons outside to continue the movement/flight of the occupiers.

Also should anyone be taken into custody? if so, the police numbers would have to be bigger, not to mention vehicles to transfer them to detention center.

They have to storm the terminal.

Unfortunately blood will be spilled and lives may be lost but they have to do this as an "object" lesson.

The PAD protestors think this is a joke, they obviously believe they are in no danger (maybe beem told they will be no danger). Bunch of ppl laughing as they takeover the building. Most being paid to be part of the protest.

Time to show that this is not a game. That their action will have consequences.

<deleted>, if I was the govt, I would even sacrifice some of my own ppl. Show the PAD as the thugs they are and then use it as an excuse to move in.

Force the issue now then have it go on, then something happens to trigger an escalation where everything will be totally out of control. At least if they force the issue they will be the one calling the shots (in the beginning anyway).

The Som Tam man will sort it all out. Leave em all in there a few more days without food and then ship a fleet of Som Tam stalls to the outskirts. Jeez, sh1t like this is so easy to sort out

There is only one way to successfully assault a large complex like Swampy...and that is with massive force. If there are 4,000 protesters in the airport complex, then you need 8,000 troops to overwhelm them. This is standard assault tactics.You must assume that the protesters will be armed. To assume that they are unarmed and that they will not resist is tantamount to criminal negligence on the planners part. In the case of Thailand, you would have to find 8,000 police officers or troops who have the stomach for the attack, because these things never go according to plan and often will be bloody. You organize your assault teams according to the target they are about to attack and the number of individuals you expect to confront. The physical layout of the target also must be considered. A large terminal with multiple floors will require more troops than a hangar. Everyone needs to know exactly what their job is and they must have the authority to execute the assault plan to its finite conclusion. Whenever possible it is best to have a rehearsal for the assault. When the assault occurs, it must be done quickly and violently in order to completely overwhelm the opposing force. When I heard that the Royal Thai Police had set up a roadblock with 100 police officers, I knew it was a doomed effort.

Would they just storm the terminal busting heads, or should they soften up the occupiers by using some sort of pepper/mace gas?

I agree they have to use overwhelming force, but I believe they have to use something to cause discomfort/confusion first. Maybe stun grenades with pepper gas immediately following. And water cannons outside to continue the movement/flight of the occupiers.

Also should anyone be taken into custody? if so, the police numbers would have to be bigger, not to mention vehicles to transfer them to detention center.

A dynamic entry into a building always requires the use of diversionary or stun devices. So flashbangs would always be used. The use of pepper spray or tear gas is not wise because you have a lot of innocent people who are trapped there. In addition, the Royal Thai Police does not have the necessary equipment for its personnel to carry out an attack after a chemical assault. They would be as incapacitated as their opponents. I don't agree with using water hoses...it takes time to set up and their capability is minimal against a determined foe. The use of nightsticks or truncheons as you Brits call them is okay, but you would be surprised how many police officers don't know the principals of using a nightstick (it is a defensive and not offensive weapon and is more effective on arms and legs and not on heads). And if the military is using their personnel in the attack, they have virtually no experience in the use of nightsticks. If the Thai government wants to minimize serious casualties, they might want to consider arming their entry teams with shotguns loaded with No. 6 birdshot rather than assault rifles or shotguns using No. 4 buckshot.

As far as taking everyone into custody...the answer is yes. They need to be arrested and marshalled to a holding area well away from where the action is taking place. This actually does not require that much personnel if you establish one hangar area for this purpose. A hangar is easily secured.

There should be a new airport built immediately and no one tell the PAD where it is .

There should be a new airport built immediately and no one tell the PAD where it is .

There should be a new airport built immediately and no one tell the PAD where it is .

Good idea but how the hel_l are we going to get in and out of Thailand in the intervening 30 years?

Funny, reading all the crash and burn rhetoric here and in general, but my mind keeps returning to that haunting image of the lone protester confronting the tank in Tiananmen square.

In the end will anyone remember who was right and who was wrong? But the families of the dead will remember nothing but their loss. If the worst comes to the worst no amount of scrubbing will remove the blood from the floors of the new airport, Thaksin's legacy .

RIP the Land of Smiles.

I'm not sure how Thaksin can wear all the blame for this. Blame the ordinary rural Thai people who keep voting his party/parties into power.

And the greed and ambition of people like Sondhi Limthongkul.

So it's getting serious. I'm arriving in BKK on the 22nd December - I hope it's sorted by then...

I leave for Bangers on Thursday the 4th December. I'm hoping its sorted by then.

I'm not sure how Thaksin can wear all the blame for this. Blame the ordinary rural Thai people who keep voting his party/parties into power.

And the greed and ambition of people like Sondhi Limthongkul.

Please Scea, don't blame the rural Thais, they were just manipulated..... the same way that the BKK Thais have been manipulated for many years.... you can blame the whole thing on one guy that got too big for his boots.

They were manipulated with money Thad, they were just totally unused to some cash coming back to them.

You would think that the educated middle classes would know better though.

Tell the PAD members that the airport is sinking into a cobra pit and that they need to evacuate.