Switch Of Coalition Alliance To Democrats Difficult: Kudep

[Buckwheat]

MP Kudep Saikrajang on Wednesday ruled out the possibility for the Democrats to form the next coaliton government on the ground that six coalition parties remain firm on their alliance.

"It is more realistic if the Democrats want to join the six-party alliance - this is very possible and the coalition is open for negotiations," he said.

Kudep was reacting to a call from the business associations for the coalition switch in order to overcome the political turmoil.

Even if the Democrat Party leads the next coalition, it will not have sufficient votes to ensure stability, he said.

The Nation

[grandpops]

MP Kudep Saikrajang on Wednesday ruled out the possibility for the Democrats to form the next coaliton government on the ground that six coalition parties remain firm on their alliance.

"It is more realistic if the Democrats want to join the six-party alliance - this is very possible and the coalition is open for negotiations," he said.

Kudep was reacting to a call from the business associations for the coalition switch in order to overcome the political turmoil.

Even if the Democrat Party leads the next coalition, it will not have sufficient votes to ensure stability, he said.

The Nation

And it never will have.

The ratio of poor thais is too high here and the Dems will not make it in this enlightened age.

The long memories of the Dems backing the overthrow of a 4 times elected TRT/PPP will ensure this. PAD brainswashing or no PAD brainwashing.

[annamaria4711]

Thank god for that...so the rural are NOT that stupid....they know a fascist plutocrat when they see one.

Which sane decent party would want to join a fascist regime. I certainly would move my vote else where if I saw my chosen party join a fascist plutocratic dictator lead party

[blaze]

Thank god for that...so the rural are NOT that stupid....they know a fascist plutocrat when they see one.

Which sane decent party would want to join a fascist regime. I certainly would move my vote else where if I saw my chosen party join a fascist plutocratic dictator lead party

Annamaria- many terms have been bandied about: terrorism- democracy- elites- but none is more vital to the current discussion than the one you introduced- Plutocrats!

Edited December 3, 2008 by blaze

[hammered]

I dont doubt there will be a bit of gamesmanship around all party national coalitions until people can see whether or not it is suggested as a way out of the politcal impasse.

[rainman]

The problem is that Bangkok's elite can't accept the fact that they're the minority.

[blaze]

I dont doubt there will be a bit of gamesmanship around all party national coalitions until people can see whether or not it is suggested as a way out of the politcal impasse.

It's funny Hammered- Canada is now on the brink of forming a coalition government- and the phone in shows to the CBC are saturated with words like "fascists' and 'dictatorship' and 'democracy' -- I don't know why I find that funny- but it is. From this perspective anyway. What's my point? None.

[hammered]

I dont doubt there will be a bit of gamesmanship around all party national coalitions until people can see whether or not it is suggested as a way out of the politcal impasse.

It's funny Hammered- Canada is now on the brink of forming a coalition government- and the phone in shows to the CBC are saturated with words like "fascists' and 'dictatorship' and 'democracy' -- I don't know why I find that funny- but it is. From this perspective anyway. What's my point? None.

Well Harper has talked of suspending parliament to stop them voting his government out. I guess there is no point although it looks like everyone wants either to get into power or retain power by any means they can get away with. What they can get away with depends on what a society as a whole will let them get away with.

I too probably have no point

[DP25]

The problem is that Bangkok's elite can't accept the fact that they're the minority.

The problem is that Thaksin and his fascist supporters can't accept that they are a minority. They got 35% of the vote in the last election, and the majority of Thais are now anti Thaksin, as is shown by the over 50% of voters that voted for parties claiming to be anti Thaksin, and will be shown again in the next election. If their minority government hadn't attempted to change the constitution and pardon convicted criminals and mass murderers in the face of overwhelming public condemnation none of this would have happened.

[dotcom]

The only people more incompetent that Somchai are the Democrats.

Perfect chance to show leadership & they dummy up.

[KhaoNiaw]

The Democrats actually got the most votes in the last election but they really are pretty inept aren't they? Always have been since Chuan was in charge.

I don't really get this 'rural poor'/'rural masses' thing though. Are they all a massive block? Why is that the southern rural poor/rural masses are not considered to be as worthy as those in the North or Northeast?

What about the areas of the Northeast that have continued to return their Democrat MPs throughout the Thaksin/PPP era? Are those rural people considered to be backward and yet to have their collective consciousness awakened, or something bizarre like that?

[h90]

The only people more incompetent that Somchai are the Democrats.

Perfect chance to show leadership & they dummy up.

The Democrats are very boring and they didn't show any leadership, but in compare everyone of them is competent and all the university degree are real and not fake.

[erobando]

The Democrats actually got the most votes in the last election but they really are pretty inept aren't they? Always have been since Chuan was in charge.

I don't really get this 'rural poor'/'rural masses' thing though. Are they all a massive block? Why is that the southern rural poor/rural masses are not considered to be as worthy as those in the North or Northeast?

What about the areas of the Northeast that have continued to return their Democrat MPs throughout the Thaksin/PPP era? Are those rural people considered to be backward and yet to have their collective consciousness awakened, or something bizarre like that?

+1 It seems like everyone forgot that Southern Thailand exists.

[rainman]

The problem is that Thaksin and his fascist supporters can't accept that they are a minority. They got 35% of the vote in the last election, and the majority of Thais are now anti Thaksin, as is shown by the over 50% of voters that voted for parties claiming to be anti Thaksin, and will be shown again in the next election. If their minority government hadn't attempted to change the constitution and pardon convicted criminals and mass murderers in the face of overwhelming public condemnation none of this would have happened.

So, who got the majority in the last election? And if someone else got the majority, why weren't they able to form a government?

[KhaoNiaw]

So, who got the majority in the last election? And if someone else got the majority, why weren't they able to form a government?

No one party got a majority. The PPP got the most constitutency MPs and put a coalition together. Note that in some constituencies people are able to vote for 2 or 3 MPs. In the proportional vote for the party list, the Democrats actually got a fractionally larger share of the vote than the PPP i.e. slightly more individual voters chose the Democrats. So the PPP needs other parties to form a majority government.

Edited December 3, 2008 by KhaoNiaw

[blaze]

The problem is that Bangkok's elite can't accept the fact that they're the minority.

The problem is that Thaksin and his fascist supporters can't accept that they are a minority. They got 35% of the vote in the last election, and the majority of Thais are now anti Thaksin, as is shown by the over 50% of voters that voted for parties claiming to be anti Thaksin, and will be shown again in the next election. If their minority government hadn't attempted to change the constitution and pardon convicted criminals and mass murderers in the face of overwhelming public condemnation none of this would have happened.

Before we render the language totally useless- could you please give a valid definition of fascism which includes instances wherein not only do fascists endorse reprentative democracy- but depend on it.

Edited December 3, 2008 by blaze

[Plus]

Was trying to accomodate Blaze's request for fascism definition but instead came acroos this little gem.

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

>>>Thaksin and the flags....

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

>>>Thaksin and human rights...

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

>>>Thaksin and elites/democracts

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread

domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

>>>Ok, in this day and age showing off the military is not important, and they were always his internal enemies

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

>>>Social Order campaign....

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

>>>Thaksin and the media...

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

>>>Ok, Thaksin concentrated on internal enemies instead.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

>>>Thaksin and the monks...

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

>>>Thaksin and corporate power....

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

>>>Thaksin and labour unions like Egat...

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

>>>Thaksin and academics...

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

>>>Thaksin and the police...

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

>>>Thaksin and corrupt cronies...

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

>>>Thaksin and fraudulent elections...

[grandpops]

The only people more incompetent that Somchai are the Democrats.

Perfect chance to show leadership & they dummy up.

There was some interest from coalition parties in joining the Democrat/PAD/Fascist party.

The fly in the ointment was the hospitals were busy and couldn't remove the spines of the members concerned quickly enough.

[animatic]

Was trying to accomodate Blaze's request for fascism definition but instead came acroos this little gem.

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

>>>Thaksin and the flags....

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

>>>Thaksin and human rights...

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

>>>Thaksin and elites/democracts

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread

domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

>>>Ok, in this day and age showing off the military is not important, and they were always his internal enemies

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

>>>Social Order campaign....

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

>>>Thaksin and the media...

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

>>>Ok, Thaksin concentrated on internal enemies instead.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

>>>Thaksin and the monks...

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

>>>Thaksin and corporate power....

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

>>>Thaksin and labour unions like Egat...

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

>>>Thaksin and academics...

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

>>>Thaksin and the police...

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

>>>Thaksin and corrupt cronies...

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

>>>Thaksin and fraudulent elections...

More than JUST a few check boxes here....

[Jingthing]

I think there are strong fascist elements on both sides, PAD and Thaksin. Pick your poison. Its sad to see there is no strong voice for a third way.

I know the Thai democrat party is weak, but do people really think PAD equals the democrats? Because I don't.

[abdulrahman]

I think there are strong fascist elements on both sides, PAD and Thaksin. Pick your poison. Its sad to see there is no strong voice for a third way.

I know the Thai democrat party is weak, but do people really think PAD equals the democrats? Because I don't.

Don't either,but the Democratic Party leaders don't have the *ojones to take a stand.

Bad for them,worse times for the Thailand we love!

[phupaman]

MP Kudep Saikrajang on Wednesday ruled out the possibility for the Democrats to form the next coaliton government on the ground that six coalition parties remain firm on their alliance.

"It is more realistic if the Democrats want to join the six-party alliance - this is very possible and the coalition is open for negotiations," he said.

Kudep was reacting to a call from the business associations for the coalition switch in order to overcome the political turmoil.

Even if the Democrat Party leads the next coalition, it will not have sufficient votes to ensure stability, he said.

The Nation

And it never will have.

The ratio of poor thais is too high here and the Dems will not make it in this enlightened age.

The long memories of the Dems backing the overthrow of a 4 times elected TRT/PPP will ensure this. PAD brainswashing or no PAD brainwashing.

Hi All

Do it occur to any one that the coalition have taken Toxins money and are commited for the long haul on the promise of even more.

phupaman

[sriracha john]

First coalition MP defecting to Democrat Party

MP Kiartikorn Pakpiansilp of disbanded Matchima Thipataya Party on Thursday became the first coalition member to join the opposition Democrat Party.

Democrat Party Secretary-General Suthep Thuagsuban organised a warm welcome for Kiartikorn and handed him his party membership.

Kiartikorn said the country sustained serious damage from the political turmoil and that he wanted to help in pushing for the switch in the coalition alliance.

- The Nation / 2008-12-04