30-days Border Runs Now Only 15 Days

[Maestro]

We haven’t seen a translation of the new Police Order 778/2551 yet. The basic question, I believe, is whether it says that it supersedes the Order 608/2549.

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Maestro

[asianbravo]

I am totally thrown off track here. need you guys help.

Singaporean passport used to be the 'riff raff' asians ....... use to do 30days border runs for 9mths now ........... so with this new change can i go to LAOS to get the 1000Baht Tourist Visa for 60 days and extend it 30 days at the immigration. Was planning to get on when this 30days visa exempt end next week.

And one more thing can i continue to buy the 1k visas back to back for a long time (till another enforcement rule comes into play) or i can only get 2 60days visa tourist and after that do border runs for 6 times (used to be 3 when the 30days visa exempt stamps).

Sorry i do not have a good command of english and i simply dun get what the rules say.

Oh ya one more thing. i am planning to get married. What requirements do i need to get married (intention is to get long visas).

Help pls i got 6 days before the stamp expires.........

[asianbravo]

Thanks in advance . Need precision as time is money to me. TQ

[exalll]

OK, I'm one of those riff-raff that they want to get rid of.

I married a Thai lady 18+ years ago. By virtue of that marriage, she was immediately entitled to live in my home country permanently, and work there; own property, vote, etc. Three years ago we decided to move to Thailand because all of my work was in SE Asia, and it was impractical to keep travelling half way around the world. I was entitled to get an 'O' visa for one year, I am not allowed to work in Thailand and I am not allowed to have a bank account, let alone own property. I have to leave the country to renew my visa every year. The problem is that Thai consulates in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Singapore will not issue mutliple entry 'O' visas. Kuala Lumpur might issue the mutliple entry 'O' visa, but I have to take the risk to go there and hope to meet a sympathetic consular employee.

OK, I have a PhD and earn $150k-$200k per year, but to Thailand I am riff-raff. So what am I supposed to do? I have three choices: 1. Take a risk on Malaysia; 2. Spend ThB80,000+ to go back to my home country every year to apply for a new visa (not counting the cost of accomodation while on the trip); or 3. Leave my wife and two children, who are all Thai citizens, and go live somewhere else.

[farangnahrak]

Wouldn't a better way to 'limit the amount of foreigners using "back-to-back" border runs' be to actually increase, not decrease, the allowed days? I mean, if it was changed to 365 days, significantly fewer farangs would be doing visa runs!

logic, people.

[asianbravo]

OK, I'm one of those riff-raff that they want to get rid of.

I married a Thai lady 18+ years ago. By virtue of that marriage, she was immediately entitled to live in my home country permanently, and work there; own property, vote, etc. Three years ago we decided to move to Thailand because all of my work was in SE Asia, and it was impractical to keep travelling half way around the world. I was entitled to get an 'O' visa for one year, I am not allowed to work in Thailand and I am not allowed to have a bank account, let alone own property. I have to leave the country to renew my visa every year. The problem is that Thai consulates in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Singapore will not issue mutliple entry 'O' visas. Kuala Lumpur might issue the mutliple entry 'O' visa, but I have to take the risk to go there and hope to meet a sympathetic consular employee.

OK, I have a PhD and earn $150k-$200k per year, but to Thailand I am riff-raff. So what am I supposed to do? I have three choices: 1. Take a risk on Malaysia; 2. Spend ThB80,000+ to go back to my home country every year to apply for a new visa (not counting the cost of accomodation while on the trip); or 3. Leave my wife and two children, who are all Thai citizens, and go live somewhere else.

Omg if u r a riff raff............. dan i am a dead wood raff ............. if ur married to her why don't u get the 1 year married visa thingie(sprry i am not good with the names of the visas) and y can't u get a bank account here ? i have accounts with bangkok bank no questions asked ?

[asianbravo]

Wouldn't a better way to 'limit the amount of foreigners using "back-to-back" border runs' be to actually increase, not decrease, the allowed days? I mean, if it was changed to 365 days, significantly fewer farangs would be doing visa runs!

logic, people.

Since when do you find anything logical here ............. well at least when u first stepped in here. considering ur get accustomed to this place after some time and get familiar with the strange-ness. When i first got there nothing made sense to me , the people , the way things are done, pace of life, everything ! .......

[exalll]

Omg if u r a riff raff............. dan i am a dead wood raff ............. if ur married to her why don't u get the 1 year married visa thingie(sprry i am not good with the names of the visas) and y can't u get a bank account here ? i have accounts with bangkok bank no questions asked ?

I DID get the 'O' visa when we first came here. The first year I renewed it in London because we happened to be visiting there at the right time. The second year I renewed it in S'pore, no problem. But this year S'pore has decided that it doesn't want to bother with multiple entry 'O' visas - neither does Vietnam, Cambodia, etc. As for the bank account, we went to the local BKK bank. It was very clear - you are not allowed to open a bank account on an 'O' visa (apparently it's all to do with money laundering which, of course, is only conducted by foreigners on 'O' visas; never Thais). My wife said "no problem", I know someone who works in the HQ of BKK bank". So we asked her, but she said "no way".

[henryalleman]

From the rough translation that was posted it appears that the 90 days in 6 months has been taken out.

If it is still there it would be take 6 entries to reach the max.

Extraordinarily stupid move! This will only hurt tourism and the economy more. Thailand's reputation as a tourist/expat friendly country is going down the drain. Hope that is civil enough for Thaivisa.

And, for the record, I do not have a visa problem, so this does not impact me personally.

Crack down on perpetual tourists..... name one country that will tolerate misfits that abuse immigration procedures.. Who needs them anyway.

[warwick7735]

Hello all

The 30 day rule for countries not bordering thai, and the new 15 day rule for neighbouring countries is fine for true tourists. If your wanting to stay longer get the required visa before arriving there, and again I feel these should only be issued from the travellers own country.

It would make the whole thing simpler if the thai government said your only allowed 1 30 day stamp in your passport per 12 month period as most true tourists only travel once per year.

Lot of fuss for no reason, people know the rules and try to find ways to get around them

[exalll]

Hello all

The 30 day rule for countries not bordering thai, and the new 15 day rule for neighbouring countries is fine for true tourists. If your wanting to stay longer get the required visa before arriving there, and again I feel these should only be issued from the travellers own country.

It would make the whole thing simpler if the thai government said your only allowed 1 30 day stamp in your passport per 12 month period as most true tourists only travel once per year.

Lot of fuss for no reason, people know the rules and try to find ways to get around them

Under such a system, if you travel on holiday to Thailand, forget about nipping acoss to Luang Prabang, or Angkor for a few days ... you won't be allowed back in.

[asianbravo]

Singaporeans allowed 60 day tourist visa in Vientianne ?

[henryalleman]

Once I knew I wanted to be here I changed to Non-Immigrant.

Not so easy.

Not everybody can get a Non-Imm, especially if you are not 50 yo, not married, not working...

Just asking you. Why a country should give a Visa extension to this people, who can not pass the 800 000 baht rule.

I always wondered what people who are not married, not working or don't have an sufficient income from abroad to meet the Visa applications are doing in Thailand.

And how they spend their live. Where they get the money to to eat, drink and sleep.

Receiving a Visa is a privilege giving by their hosts, it can never be extorted. Their can be only one exception, is a permanent Visa given for family reunion because this is an human right. And even in the EU they are implementing new very strict rules for it, like learning the language (even before entering the country), sufficient means, following acclimatize courses and so on.

So except the new rules or just leave, if you not agreed with them.

[henryalleman]

I think that Thailand wants to get rid of what it sees as the riff raff falangs. Those who cannot be bothered or just cannot get the right visa. If you have a legitimate visa there is no problem in staying here.

Almost agree totally. Only thing is that I do not understand why those under 50 who can prove they have enough income or capital to support themselves here without working should get an equivalent of a retirement visa. Maybe to support their anticipated longer life the figure should be much higher than 800K Baht (say 2 million Baht) for under 50's but it should be an option and has to be good for the Thai economy. BTW this is not said to suit me as I am over 60 with a UK pension (yes I worked hard in the UK for 40 years and waited to retire until I could afford it) and have a proper OA retirement visa.

A very sensible ruling this and surely completely fair, if you stay here permanently then you are frankly NOT a tourist so why should you get a permanently renewable tourist visa ?? No other civilised country would normally allow this so why should Thailand ?? Wont affect tourism as 99% arrive by air anyway. So either get a spouse visa, retirement visa or work permit based visa or go back home work hard to earn enough to justify your return here in the future, most of us have done just that and NO I am not gloating in any way and feel sorry for those genuine cases who have no valid and fair option like an under 50 retirement visa which would be sensible.

:jerk:

[henryalleman]

Just a few thoughts for what they're worth:

1) '90 days' (total within any 180 day period) was/is always subject to interpretation as 3 entries, regardless of total days. I got hit with that at CNX a year and a half ago, 179 days from that first entry of the three, though well short of 90 days total in-country. I got one day, then had to go to Tachilek next day and re-enter.

2) Proper tourist visas aren't as easy as they sound any more. Last time I checked their website, LA Consul wanted bank statements, return or onward ticket dated at less than 60-day term of visa, hotel reservations, no multiple entries, etc. Smaller consulates seem(ed) easier.

3) 'Real tourists' do 10-14 day tours. The regs are likely aimed at scammers and schemers, some of us true, but also scads of Nigerians and Russians with Mafia and drug connections, not to mention foreign Muslims, many of them linguistic cousins of the south's ethnic Malays, always a problem. Simple lingerers are probably not much of a concern, and border-run abusers have long been given notice.

4) When the presence of foreigners begins to transform a society, then you can expect that society to defend its core values. Thailand long ago passed that point, with far more ex-pats than any other country of the 50-60 I've visited, and a society on the verge of serious degeneration. When 20+ y.o. Thai women see 55 y.o. foreign men as desirable life partners, that's a dangerous trend.

5) Only one country gets special consideration, China, but that's long been part of the deal, 700+/- years. They 'become Thai'. There are, however, several South American countries whose citizens get 90 days on arrival w/o visa. Anybody want to buy a Peruvian passport?

4) When the presence of foreigners begins to transform a society, then you can expect that society to defend its core values.

very correct we see it in Europe every day.

Thailand long ago passed that point, with far more ex-pats than any other country of the 50-60 I've visited.

When was the last time that you visit the UK, France, Holland, Belgium.

In my home town (population 450 000) are living 147 different foreign nationals 18% of the populations this not include Belgian naturalized citizens of foreign origine, in total about 30%

In some comunes in Brussels its nearly 60%. its not uncommon that natives passengers on public transport are far out the minority. More than once on full packed tram their are only 2 or 3 natives.

and a society on the verge of serious degeneration.

In Europe we past that point already a long time ago.

I wished that my country had the the same Visa requirements as Thailand.

[inthepink]

Alot of derisory BS being bandied about from certain ivory towers here.

I am on the last entry of my 3rd consecutive multiple entry non o visa, and was planning to stay a couple of months on visa exempt stamps before returning to the UK in Feb/ March to get a new one.

Does that mean I am currently an acceptable middle class expat, but come next Friday will automatically be demoted to riff-raff?

No, it means you are either a bit daft for not just applying for one year extensions in country or you don't really qualify for an 'O' visa in the first place, so can't extend them here...

[henryalleman]

Egypt: 1 yrs visa 30 dollars

Kenya: 1yrs visa 100 dolars

Vietnam: you can see in january the big changes

Brasil: 6 month visa 90 dollars

....ecc want more?

You realy like to stay in Egypt or kenya?

[torrenova]

So you save money and make a visa run to the border leaving you more money to spend in Thailand and they give you 15 days or you fly out, spend a few days there because the trip was so expensive and come back with less money to spend in Thailand and they give you 30 days !.

You could not make that one up if you tried to be stupid for a day. Illogical captain.

Why not just give people with proper passports 90 days anyway and / or make extensions available at immigration for a fee, subject to proof of funds etc. Think of all the $20 (or Bt1000)s to be saved ?

[opebo]

My only comment is - does anyone really believe that most visa runners are in Thailand for 'work'? That seems absurd to me, given that salaries here are only in the 30-40 thousand bhat per month range.

No, it is far, far more common for farangs to 'work' as teachers simply for the visa, not the petty salary.

[davee58]

I do not understand the uproar.

If you wish to spend time in Thailand do so according to the immigration regulations that apply to you and your intentions.

If there are none then do not visit.

If the regulations change, respond accordingly.

Moaning about how much money you may spend, the type of person you are or how this is all bad for Thailand etc. is just moaning.

Non-thais do not have an inalienable right to visit Thailand.

You seem incredibly ignorant, perhaps deliberatly so.

We are on holiday, Myself from UK. Girlfriend from Philippines. We are on holiday for just under three months, Month Thailand, Month Philippines, Month Thailand, Back home.

I have visited Thailand before, I ensured when booking that our time in Thailand was less than the 30 Days (actually 29 nights) transit allowance for Thailand.

Now the rules have changed overnight, I booked all our flights in advance. We were almost forced to travel overland to Cambodia due to the Anarchy at the airport, and now, when we arrive back here in January it is not clear whether we will be allowed to stay for the 25 days before our flight back to the Philippines.

We have planned, as you say according to the visa regulations that apply to us and no I am not moaning about how much money I may spend.

And for the "get a visa in advance" brigade, how could we?? Spend a day bribing officials (at the Thai embassy) in Manila, you must be kidding.

We planned well within the thai immigration rules.

[leoalex]

Oh, you know, the visa rules in my home country and here in Britian, where I live now, are far more demanding then Thailand's rules.

In Australia, forget just arriving on a plane.

In the UK, unless your from the EU, which makes you a conditional citizen of the UK, you must get a visa. Getting these visas is no simple matter - some of the Thai people I know here have to prove, in part by paying for expensive language courses, that they are here for legitimate purposes.

I'm not sure about the US, but I do know they've tightened up lately.

It saddens and surprises me that I regularly hear from some disgruntled Australian's, Briton's and American's that the Thai's are 'so bad' to us.

It is problematic that the visa laws do cause such inconvenience, but we 'can' get into Thailand, all of us!

Many Thai's cannot get into my country at all, not for any reason.

How welcoming is your country to Thai's?

Are you really benefiting Thailand by being there, as some suggest, or are you self-seeking benefits, but using the 'I'm benefiting Thailand' cliche in misrepresented, but, self-serving cliches?

etr

BRAVO Couldn't agree more!!

Yes, you are right, indeed it is vey difficult for Thai people to enter any of the European countries.

Why should that be, you think.

Maybe, just maybe, the EU countries found out that a lot of Thai people enter the country on a visa, and then disappear.

Most come to the EU with a financial guarantee from someone in the EU, and most don't bring much money with them.

Now, the farang going to Thailand, nobody needs to guarantee him, he spends his money, is ripped off most of the time, wants to stay some longer or forever, and cannot do that.

Because of the immigration laws.

You see the difference?

I do!

If you spend money while being a tourist, money from abroad, one way or another you benifit the country you visit.

If you go to atcountry with no money, with a guarantee, you do not benifit the country you visit.

Simple

Not true, eu visa applications processed by very different way - I know it by my own personal experience and also my bf appied before for eu visa at embassy here at Thailand (with guarantee paper from me, approved by police (stamps/signs).

It not matter you have money or not, it not matter embassy country own laws (like you must provide this, this and this paper - every time need much more than specified at laws). Also how him explain me his feelings after visiting immigration him feel like "i feel like I am illegal immigrant" or something like it.

His was asked to provide his full bank statement for last 6 monthes (it when his has bank warranty letter with visa application!), his was asked to provide airtickets to europe (hopefully reservation only was enough like was said at embassy paper) and paid booking of the hotel in the eu country. So - pay hotel booking, pay visa fee, give away your "human rights secret" full banking & statements info and wait for answer when consul has said from start can give not more than 21 day (buy it 3 monthes per 180 days by eu country immigration law!!!).

So first time his visa was rejected, and him get VISA REJECTED red stamp to his passport about it. (eu embassy not worry about money lost, red stamps in the passport, visa fee is cannot be returned back, hotel booking lost also (was paid by credit card and this company not refund money).

But on second time when his apply for visa - it was granted for 25 days. It was because I speak with peoples who was at simular situation and make him business class airticket with ability to refund money.

So I can speak what it so so not easy for any middle-class thai (who not work on goverment) to make eu visa. I also listen what some thai senator was applied for eu visa not using diplomatic channels - and his visa application was rejected. So ... now can feel how feel middle-class thai who want to make european visa. I think this things well known by Thai goverment and also reason for this kind of visa rules. Which I must to say MUCH much better than any european/australian/usa/etc visa application _practice_(!) (not just declarated rules).

Also this visa things not related only to Thailand, it happen with much more countries than you ever have ideas to think about.

[thaiwanderer]

I do not understand the uproar.

If you wish to spend time in Thailand do so according to the immigration regulations that apply to you and your intentions.

If there are none then do not visit.

If the regulations change, respond accordingly.

Moaning about how much money you may spend, the type of person you are or how this is all bad for Thailand etc. is just moaning.

Non-thais do not have an inalienable right to visit Thailand.

You seem incredibly ignorant, perhaps deliberatly so.

We are on holiday, Myself from UK. Girlfriend from Philippines. We are on holiday for just under three months, Month Thailand, Month Philippines, Month Thailand, Back home.

I have visited Thailand before, I ensured when booking that our time in Thailand was less than the 30 Days (actually 29 nights) transit allowance for Thailand.

Now the rules have changed overnight, I booked all our flights in advance. We were almost forced to travel overland to Cambodia due to the Anarchy at the airport, and now, when we arrive back here in January it is not clear whether we will be allowed to stay for the 25 days before our flight back to the Philippines.

We have planned, as you say according to the visa regulations that apply to us and no I am not moaning about how much money I may spend.

And for the "get a visa in advance" brigade, how could we?? Spend a day bribing officials (at the Thai embassy) in Manila, you must be kidding.

We planned well within the thai immigration rules.

if as it appears from your post that you are flying, what is the problem?

[leoalex]

Thailand has by far the most rude and agressive immigration officers on the planet my dear. If you care to understand - then it was only a short time ago when the powers that be decided that they 9immigration plebs) should attend a course on how to be polite. Ofcourse it never happened.

You just never seen european immigration officers/consuls in action. Try to go or ask some questions in uk/or any eu embassy saying from start what you from poor region country (like hello, i am citizen of xxx. i have visa question - xxxxxx. ) (you can try to do it also by phone) and you will see yourself.

[leoalex]

as far as I am concerned if you do everything by the book when it comes to visas you are going to be ok both ways I have never had trouble getting a visa for thailand and my wife has never had a problem getting visa to austraila including tourist visa fiance visa and spouse visa and immigration were very polite and never hassled my wife once .

As I said before you do everything by the book and no hassles

it not true. I dont know about Australian visas, but it may be because you was with she at that time. In europe/european embassies situation is very different.

[davee58]

I do not understand the uproar.

If you wish to spend time in Thailand do so according to the immigration regulations that apply to you and your intentions.

If there are none then do not visit.

If the regulations change, respond accordingly.

Moaning about how much money you may spend, the type of person you are or how this is all bad for Thailand etc. is just moaning.

Non-thais do not have an inalienable right to visit Thailand.

You seem incredibly ignorant, perhaps deliberately so.

We are on holiday, Myself from UK. Girlfriend from Philippines. We are on holiday for just under three months, Month Thailand, Month Philippines, Month Thailand, Back home.

I have visited Thailand before, I ensured when booking that our time in Thailand was less than the 30 Days (actually 29 nights) transit allowance for Thailand.

Now the rules have changed overnight, I booked all our flights in advance. We were almost forced to travel overland to Cambodia due to the Anarchy at the airport, and now, when we arrive back here in January it is not clear whether we will be allowed to stay for the 25 days before our flight back to the Philippines.

We have planned, as you say according to the visa regulations that apply to us and no I am not moaning about how much money I may spend.

And for the "get a visa in advance" brigade, how could we?? Spend a day bribing officials (at the Thai embassy) in Manila, you must be kidding.

We planned well within the thai immigration rules.

if as it appears from your post that you are flying, what is the problem?

It is not yet certain that we will be allowed 15 days flying from Phnom Penh.

Up until yesterday our flight tickets to Phnom Penh were considered cancelled, we were expecting the (emergency) Plan-B overland trip. (my earlier post asking for advice.)

As it is, we could have planned our travels overland, as I am certain many people have done. I myself travelled around Laos, Cambodia, (and ventured into Burma) several years ago, now I fly, (I must be getting old).

Overland travel around Asia is a great adventure, unplanned changes like this one just screw things up.

[eggomaniac]

OK, I'll leave, but I won't come back. I'lljust spend my money elsewhere.

how much was that? $30 per day?

[eggomaniac]

Just asking you. Why a country should give a Visa extension to this people, who can not pass the 800 000 baht rule.

I always wondered what people who are not married, not working or don't have an sufficient income from abroad to meet the Visa applications are doing in Thailand.

And how they spend their live. Where they get the money to to eat, drink and sleep.

Receiving a Visa is a privilege giving by their hosts, it can never be extorted. Their can be only one exception, is a permanent Visa given for family reunion because this is an human right. And even in the EU they are implementing new very strict rules for it, like learning the language (even before entering the country), sufficient means, following acclimatize courses and so on.

So except the new rules or just leave, if you not agreed with them.

---------

same here! in 2003 and 2004 in my 1rst exposure to Thailand, I never went near the sex centers,, well passed through as they were hard to avoid, met up with the lovely 'traditional' Thai women who I had met online, from a good family who all had 'normal' jobs.

At the time I was so pleased about the moves to ratchet down the 'sex' tourism industry and the attempt to move towards more of a 'family' destination, lose the $30 per day [$10 per day trash]

I also saw the angry reaction to the closing hours of the prositute parlors [oh ya girl bars] call it what you what.

[madjbs]

You gotta love the way all the moaning farangs complain to the bitter end about how their home countries have been taken over by immigrants and how they should be kicked out etc... But, when Thailand tries to protect itself against the same kind of thing, it's moan moan moan and how Thai people are stupid and shooting themselves in the foot etc...

Just goes to show, these kind of regulations really are needed.

[rainman]

I know 30 day border runs are easy (though the bus drives are long). I used to do them myself before I got my marriage visa. But there are options for everybody that wants to live in Thailand, even if you're not married and not retired. Sure they take a bit more work than border runs, but in the end it's worth it.

[tropo]

You gotta love the way all the moaning farangs complain to the bitter end about how their home countries have been taken over by immigrants and how they should be kicked out etc... But, when Thailand tries to protect itself against the same kind of thing, it's moan moan moan and how Thai people are stupid and shooting themselves in the foot etc...

Just goes to show, these kind of regulations really are needed.

In actual fact they are shooting themselves in the foot, but of course that's their choice, isn't it.

I don't know where you live, but where I live the Thais exist on the money we spend. The Thais here have a very good standard of living based solely on what we spend.