30-days Border Runs Now Only 15 Days

[farangfool]

i was many time in the philippines after all this changes.

the philippines is no alternative.

1. you know it when you one time sick,,,hospitals etc very low standard

2. infrastructure bad

3. police is absoluty untrtrustable and 10 times corrupter than in thailand

4. food and hotel supply is low quality

5. no security

but diving,beaches,islands and of course the girls are nice,and beer and cigarettes are cheap

but this is not enough to live there

They do give you a reliable legal setting. I agree on hospitals, mostly, although you dont have full security in Thailand as well (no need to discuss the infamous cases here). Infrastructure is bad, but how much do you travel? Depends also where you stay, regional differences are surprisingly high. Police.....hmmm, the 10 times might be true but after a certain degree it hardly matters. Hotels cost on average more and lower quality, but again, the individual location matters. Security: Manila is a shithole, true, other places are safe. The problem with the Phil. is that the standards are every uneven and regional differences strong. I found an almost ideal place for myself. So Thailand is a now a place to visit for that good noddle soup.

As we discuss the immigration situation: Cant beat them.

[george]

We have now got the National Police order number 778/2551 (2008) translated to English, kindly provided by Sunbelt Asia,

http://www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

It's added in the first post of this long thread, and also available here (PDF format):

National_Police_Order_778_2008.pdf

[Lite Beer]

We have now got the National Police order number 778/2551 (2008) translated to English, kindly provided by Sunbelt Asia,

http://www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

It's added in the first post of this long thread, and also available here (PDF format):

National_Police_Order_778_2008.pdf

Just as we thought. The 90 days/6 Month Rule is dead.

Let's hope that the officers at the checkpoints know this.

Thanks George and Sunbelt.

[george]

Still not clear if you get 15 or 30 days if you enter by ship/boat/yacht, but I guess that would be 30 days.

[Mario2008]

It replaces section 3, so the other sections are still intact. Meaning people on a visa exempt onder bilateral agreement still get 30 days at a land border.

[HelterSkelter]

Could it be that they are in some way trying to benefit the crippled airline industry? This is Thailand you know.

Of coarse! The Well off can afford to fly! And the "Farang Key Noks"(our younger Colledge age children) Will be kept away from influencing the "Rural" Thai's in more "Remote" areas

with tthier "Democracy" ideas!

The funny thing of coarse being the "Convenient" timing of this "Rule"? No Government! Quick quick , New Rule!

Great! Now We are as Progressive and competitive as Burma!

Wife and I are GONE!!To live in a "Civil" and fair society!

Hope You with "Proper" visas make a fortune on "Nothing"!

Ciow!

[Lite Beer]

Still not clear if you get 15 or 30 days if you enter by ship/boat/yacht, but I guess that would be 30 days.

Do you not technically enter Ranong by boat.

[Maestro]

So now that we have seen the English translation of 778/2551 we know that the rules for visa-exempt entry are “according to Royal Thai Police Order No. 608/2549 as amended by Royal Thai Police Order No. 778/1551”

--

Maestro

[tropo]

It replaces section 3, so the other sections are still intact. Meaning people on a visa exempt onder bilateral agreement still get 30 days at a land border.

Could you please explain this in more detail. Are you saying that some nationalities will get 30 days?

Which ones?

Cambodia gives Filipinos 21 days and the Philippines gives all ASEAN citizens 21 days. Laos and Malaysia both give Filipinos 30 days, so there is no uniformity even amongst the close neighbors who are all part of ASEAN.

[Lite Beer]

Malaysians will get 30 days.

[ubonjoe]

See this list for countries that will still get 30 day or in some cases 90 days. The only people that are under the police order are those on the visa exempt list.

http://www.mfa.go.th/internet/document/ChartVisa.pdf

[brahmburgers]

Cambodia gives Filipinos 21 days and the Philippines gives all ASEAN citizens 21 days. Laos and Malaysia both give Filipinos 30 days, so there is no uniformity even amongst the close neighbors who are all part of ASEAN.

When will SE Asia combine as a SE Asian Union - similar to EU, with non-hassle border crossings, common currency, cooperative economic policies, etc. 200 years? 400 years? .....ever?

SE Asians have troubles with cooperating on small issues:

>>> Whether to allow traffic on an already-built bridge in Mae Sai/Tachilek.

>>> Whether to coordinate tourist access to a small spiritual site that sits by a border.

>>> Basic rights for immigrant workers. ....the list could go on and on.

So am not holding my breath - hoping SE Asian heavies can begin to work together on bigger issues. Heck, Thailand doesn't even have a sitting government, and hasn't had a functional government for several years. Laos has some old men carved in stone at its helm. Cambodia has a few power brokers that are doing all they can to stymie justice being meted out to former Khmer Rouge. Malaysia is ok. Burma has a mean-spririted junta at war with its own people. Indonesia and Vietnam are passably ok in the large scheme of things.

[pooket]

I don't think it's a great loss for Thailand - big spenders generally don't do visa runs but get proper long term multiple-reentry tourist or non-o visas in their home countries.

How wrong you are. Big Spenders usually only come here for a couple of weeks and spend up big in 5 star hotels. A lot of which filters off overseas. Visa runners spend their money at local hole in the walls and support the local economy at grass roots levels.

I agree totally! I've been a visa runner for a year, since I quit teaching English. My landlord seems quite happy to have me around, especially when I pay my rent on time every month! And the Thai people who sell delicious and cheap Thai food seem happy to see me when they realize I've become a regular customer. Not of all of us are chain-smoking, lowlife alcoholics!

[gazman]

Hi all,

I was seriously considering purchasing a condo in Pattaya early next year.

However since the recent halving on land crossing visa runs to only 15 days I’ve come to realize just how fragile it can be for a farung to stay here.

Imagine owning property in Thailand and being restricted into the country.

So there is 1,500,000. baht which I won’t be contributing to the Thai economy.

And that’s just me you times this by thousands of farungs also concerned with getting access into Thailand and you’re talking about some serious baht.

I was also considering investing in a guest house and had also made several serious inquiries to do so which would have employed staff and renovators an who knows what else. I know I can apply for a business visa and not have to do visa runs however any rules that are in place now can quickly change and we have just seen, and I’m not prepared to invest where there is so much instability.

Getting 30 days on a visa run simply gives me a bit of breathing space in-between visas. Which gives me a bit of flexibly which I can live with.

Also the comment of “just get a visa” well it is not always that easy or convenient as it may sound for many many reasons.

I can live with the 90 days in 180 days rule, however many could not and packed up and left. Some of you would say well “good we don’t want them” even though the average farung would spend 30,000 – 60,000 Baht per month.

However the 2 visa runs per month to get 30 days is simply un-do-able unless you live near the boarder.

Also the comment of “ Just fly in to get 30 days” is financially not an option.

There is such a thing as the financial crises, which have removed about 1/3 of my investments not to mention the crappy exchange rate at the moment.

At the end of the day Thailand can do what every they like when it comes to visas as it’s their country but, buy cutting back on the one thing they need which is farungs who spend money is something I can not understand.

Cheers

[farangfool]

Remember the reasoning behind the 90 days' rule? The pretext was that a sick xxxxxxx who had a taste for kids had been hiding in Thailand for years. So no more unlimited border runs but visas from the home country. No other place as only the home country Thai embassies would have the right computer link. Great, they could not fix this in 2 or 3 years? Right one time came a 20% increase in visa fees.

Then came the airline ticket rule at the Cambodian border. Remember? and that one place that accepts the bus tickets? against a good fee? of course no connection with immigration, dont get me wrong.

The reaction by some to the 90 day rule was similar to this new rule. Some pontificated that the change had been overdue etc. Now the same line of argument without a sick xxxxxxx. People refuse to recognize that this is a trend and not a one time measure that would end here. Let me speculate: I predict a rise in visa fees for the next few months. They are creating the demand and market for the next step.

Those who are stuck with family, houses, or investments are facing real headaches. I love my Thai friends for warning me not to buy anything. Bottom line is they want farangs out. A previous poster listed his planned investments that escapted the Thai economy. Add mine to the bill. No details, it was a bit more painful (higher).

[Lite Beer]

. Bottom line is they want farangs out.

Everyone is entitled to their view and they are welcome to it.

But for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would choose to live anywhere they thought they were not welcome and not wanted. I would not.

This is not a "If you do not like it , go home" post.

I just do not understand why anyone would want to live in a place where they feel that no one wants them.

[Jingthing]

LB,

That is kind of naive.

Do you think Mexicans illegally crossing the Rio Grande being chased by la migras think they are welcomed by the government of the USA?

It is very possible and totally rational to WANT to live in a nation for your own reasons (commonly economic) and still be faced with a government that doesn't really welcome you.

[Lite Beer]

LB,

That is kind of naive.

Probably. But why live somewhere you feel you are not wanted?

A bit different for Mexicans going to USA. There need is economic. Most westerners here are better off than most of the local population and have a choice of going elsewhere if they want.

I certainly do not feel unwanted.

[Jingthing]

LB,

That is kind of naive.

Probably. But why live somewhere you feel you are not wanted?

A bit different for Mexicans going to USA. There need is economic. Most westerners here are better off than most of the local population and have a choice of going elsewhere if they want.

I certainly do not feel unwanted.

Again, naive.

Economics is indeed a big part of the motivation for many many westerners to live in a lower cost country like Thailand.

[Lite Beer]

Again, naive.

Economics is indeed a big part of the motivation for many many westerners to live in a lower cost country like Thailand.

I think we have different mindsets. If I really believed that I was unwanted , I would find somewhere else just as cheap.

As I said everyone is entitled to make their own decisions.

[sunholidaysun1]

Today I had to go to the border for the first of my 30 day stamp after my double entry visa from Laos ran out. I didnt want to pay the 1900 bht for a 1 month extention, so I chose to just cross the border and see what happens.

Prior to crossing the border , I went to the Immigration office in MaeSai - Chiang Rai , to see what information they had on disply about the new 15 day rule ......NOTHING , either in Thai or English. I spoke with an immigration officer , asked him about the new rule and he said YES , it was now in force . I asked if at the end of my 3 x 15 day border runs , would I need to leave the country to get a visa , like what we had to do after the 3 x 30 days had expired under the OLD rule. The answer was NO, you can stay indefinately , as long as you keep crossing the border every 15days. So, on arrival at the border crossing , handed my passport over and they took my photo on leaving Thailand (thats New to me ). On arrival back to the border into Thailand after getting my arr/dep stamps from Myanmar , I handed my passport over , and was given 15 days. I pleaded that I didnt know about the new rule and as the officer could speak English very well , he said exactly the same as the Immigration office Iwent to as mentioned. The officer said we can stay as long as we cross the border every 15 days. There is NO REQUIREMENT FOR A VISA from any Thai Embassy or Consulate as long as you are happy to keep crossing every 15 days. If you prefer NOT to do the 15 day rule , then you can still go to the Embassy etc and get the single Entry or Double entry as you were doing before. So for me , I will follow that ruke unless I get bored and take a trip to Vientian for a short holiday . As you know , things can change here at a moments notice, but theres no need to fret or panic or get hostile with them or eachother. WE ARE ALL welcome here as long as you follow the law, its as simple as that and whatever visa you have to get into the country , good luck to you . I just prefer NOT to go back to my own country , purely because of the time and expense and therefore abide by their rules. I hope that puts a few minds at ease , knowing now that they have just made it more easy for us to stay here but are monitoring our movements a little better. Regards

Steve

[BeauKarl]

. Bottom line is they want farangs out.

Everyone is entitled to their view and they are welcome to it.

But for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would choose to live anywhere they thought they were not welcome and not wanted. I would not.

This is not a "If you do not like it , go home" post.

I just do not understand why anyone would want to live in a place where they feel that no one wants them.

You are right about that, but for people like me with a Thai family it ain't easy, to just pack your bags and leave. We have a home and some land here aswell.

A WP is one option, and my biggest problem is boredom, but some work is just impossible to do, at least in my case, I opened a ltd co 2 years ago that was just not doable due to the taxes that are way higher.

My wife could open a busniness, but can't employ me,....

[Lite Beer]

. Bottom line is they want farangs out.

Everyone is entitled to their view and they are welcome to it.

But for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would choose to live anywhere they thought they were not welcome and not wanted. I would not.

This is not a "If you do not like it , go home" post.

I just do not understand why anyone would want to live in a place where they feel that no one wants them.

You are right about that, but for people like me with a Thai family it ain't easy, to just pack your bags and leave. We have a home and some land here aswell.

A WP is one option, and my biggest problem is boredom, but some work is just impossible to do, at least in my case, I opened a ltd co 2 years ago that was just not doable due to the taxes that are way higher.

My wife could open a busniness, but can't employ me,....

Ok but you do have Visa options because of your Thai family.

[Hawkup2000]

Not much have changed for the long staying farang, but what will happen the the day Vientiane stop issuing double tourist visas?

Edited December 9, 2008 by Hawkup2000

[MacWalen]

nothing will happen, learning more Thai cannot hurt, you can get ED visa and be here very long term and no visa runs at all. It works out not much more expensive if not cheaper.

Kind regards

Mac

Walen School of Thai

[yongli]

Still not clear if you get 15 or 30 days if you enter by ship/boat/yacht, but I guess that would be 30 days.

Do you not technically enter Ranong by boat.

From the English Translation of the post police order:

"Whereas each time

when entering the Kingdom shall not be longer than

30 days as of the first date of entering. Unless, the

Alien (Tourist/Visitor) is entering through the border

of the neighboring countries will be granted only 15

days per visit as of the date of the first entry."

To me that could be interpreted as: You are getting 15 days when entering from a neighboring country - regardless, which mode of transport you use. So technically it could even be interpreted as if you fly in /sail in from a neighboring country, you get 15 days. They could monitor this just by looking on the arrival card and if in doubt asking for the boarding pass.

But maybe in the Thai original "land borders" is specifically mentioned.

Does anybody have any experience about entering via a flight from a neighboring country?

[Jingthing]

Again, naive.

Economics is indeed a big part of the motivation for many many westerners to live in a lower cost country like Thailand.

I think we have different mindsets. If I really believed that I was unwanted , I would find somewhere else just as cheap.

As I said everyone is entitled to make their own decisions.

Do you think everyone in Thailand wants you? Why should you care who wants you? Its our lives and if we want to move somewhere, and we can manage it, why care about what other people think about you?

[ubonjoe]

Unless, the Alien (Tourist/Visitor) is entering through the border

of the neighboring countries will be granted only 15

days per visit as of the date of the first entry."

To me that could be interpreted as: You are getting 15 days when entering from a neighboring country - regardless, which mode of transport you use. So technically it could even be interpreted as if you fly in /sail in from a neighboring country, you get 15 days. They could monitor this just by looking on the arrival card and if in doubt asking for the boarding pass.

But maybe in the Thai original "land borders" is specifically mentioned.

"Entering through the border" I don't see how that could be read to say flying in could be applied. You are not entering through the border you are entering through an airport.

The is the key word in the rule.

[yongli]

Unless, the Alien (Tourist/Visitor) is entering through the border

of the neighboring countries will be granted only 15

days per visit as of the date of the first entry."

To me that could be interpreted as: You are getting 15 days when entering from a neighboring country - regardless, which mode of transport you use. So technically it could even be interpreted as if you fly in /sail in from a neighboring country, you get 15 days. They could monitor this just by looking on the arrival card and if in doubt asking for the boarding pass.

But maybe in the Thai original "land borders" is specifically mentioned.

"Entering through the border" I don't see how that could be read to say flying in could be applied. You are not entering through the border you are entering through an airport.

The is the key word in the rule.

@ubonjon: fair enough, that would rule out the fly in, but sail ins would still be through a border.

I was just a bit surprised when reading the doc, that it didn't mention land border crossings.

[maxbentley]

Thailaban,

Once your $25- 30 day tourist visa on arrival or maximum stay of 60 days ($55) expires you have options if you wish to remain in Indonesia:

Stay and pay $20 USD's per day overstay charges.

Leave and then re-enter-which means flying or boating out and then back-costly.

Purchasing one year tourist visas-I was quoted $750-$1,000.00(depending on agency).

The agency in Bali I used quotes and charges $55 on a monthly basis- for 30 day visas after your initial tourist visa has transpired.

"Indonesian VISA's are just $ 25 if you buy them on arrival (30 days on arrival). I never was in need of the regular 60-days-tourist VISA, but I dont think it costs $ 55 a month (that would be 110 $ for 60 days - highly unlikely..... though right now I am too lazy at the moment to search at the website of the indonesian embassy in my home country....)" Thailaban

I have recently entered Indonesia twice on separate 60 day($55 and $60) tourist visas.

http://www.bali-travel-online.com/visa_regulation.html