30-days Border Runs Now Only 15 Days

[Eff1n2ret]

Without myself entering into the argument about the desirability or otherwise of visa runners, it's quite clear that the Thai authorities have decided that those entering the country as tourists/visitors should be just that - tourists or visitors - (that's what the Order says). Their first attempt to stamp down was to apply the 90 days in 180 limitation. When (a good few years ago) I worked on the desk at Heathrow there were occasions when you had to tot up a passengers Ins and Outs from his passport, for example Working Holidaymakers could claim the balance of their 2 years for time out of the UK when the original stamp was expiring; it was a real pain in the bum. I guess that Thai IOs, particularly at the land borders, found the same thing, so they decided to find another way.

No doubt their stats show that the majority of visa runners are doing day trips over a land border, thus they've concluded that a 15-day limitation will inconvenience a sufficient number to discourage the practice. Which leaves the anomaly that passengers arriving by air will be granted 30 days any number of times. I wonder what they'll do when the charter flights start up, for example U Tapao-Penang, there and back in the day.....

[growe237]

. . . in Thailand most expats don't want anything other than to freeload on the state, have their own estates, mosques, culture and the like, never learning Thai even. Only one thing make him looks different from Thai is money. But his money from untrusted sources (may have money, but may be work unlegal), so genuine tourists more welcome for Thai economics than longstayers without proper visa.

Does anyone know what amount of income tax is actually being avoided by ex-pats who live here? Is there a flat income tax or a percentage based on income?

[Mario2008]

. . . in Thailand most expats don't want anything other than to freeload on the state, have their own estates, mosques, culture and the like, never learning Thai even. Only one thing make him looks different from Thai is money. But his money from untrusted sources (may have money, but may be work unlegal), so genuine tourists more welcome for Thai economics than longstayers without proper visa.

Does anyone know what amount of income tax is actually being avoided by ex-pats who live here? Is there a flat income tax or a percentage based on income?

Have a lok here: (at the end)

http://www.boi.go.th/english/how/tax_rates..._agreements.asp

[growe237]

Are you still only allowed three of these visas in a six month period?

I went to immigration on the holiday and there was an officer there. He told me that you can go in and out every 15 days as many times as you like.

I spoke with an Immigration officer in Chiang Mai last week and was told that you can only get three 15-day stamps. So - there you go.

[Maestro]

That immigration officer was wrong.

--

Maestro

[bangkokgas]

Are you still only allowed three of these visas in a six month period?

I went to immigration on the holiday and there was an officer there. He told me that you can go in and out every 15 days as many times as you like.

I spoke with an Immigration officer in Chiang Mai last week and was told that you can only get three 15-day stamps. So - there you go.

"So there you go" what? I don't think anyone on this forum would take the word of ONE immigration officer. Too well-documanted that NOBODY knows what really happens as there are no hard and fast rules., especially regrding tourist visas. They like you (appearance/attitude) in Vientiane, and you get the visa.Plain and simple. penang...depends on who happens to be in charge. One thing is for sure I believe. That is there will always be a way to stay here legally if you follow the rules.....even if you are a "tourist runner", or whatever the snobs on this forum call them. Freedom of movement!!!! Be legal, behave, and why should'nt anyone stay in Thailand as long as they wish ?

[gazman]

Has this been the most hottest debated topic ever on Thai Visa.

[troy04]

Did you ever try to get a tourist visa yourself in Phnom Penh or Penang (before a few weeks ago the whole staff were replaced and now it's easy) or Manila?

It's real difficult! P.P. was unfriendly even 4-5 years ago when i tried there. Penang until recently bad stories! Manila, this year I only get it because i wrote a letter to the ambassador.

why? I just wanted a tourist visa!! not a resident permit or work permit or whatsoever...

how can it be almost impossible in some consular offices to get a simple tourist visa?

read comments on thaivisa.com about manila!

since years i got a proper 12mth visa. but it run out before i returned home and before my parents came for a 3 weeks holiday with me.

If you're a tourist, get a tourist visa from your Thai consulate at home for 60-90 days travel.

Not rocket science!!

Edited December 14, 2008 by troy04

[troy04]

I am real glad you mention this! most of the readers here are expats living or even working in TH most of the year. and face another situation. i myself got a proper visa as well and i dont have a problem with this law.

But i got lots of friends coming here, for 3 weeks or 3 months they face the same problem, since TH borders to 4 countries of which 3 can be visited by road, they might visit Angkor Wat by mini van or Luang Prabang by bus. not to mention this extraordinary situation about closed airports but their time after reentry must be planed wisely. and i guess we all know how much time it can consume to get things done here. for travelers it might be an indian visa which is 5 days and a bangladesh visa another 3! or an onward flight which can be fully booked for a week or more.

15 days is short. as a hub for asia, if not the whole world, TH should be aware of a certain responsibility. of course they want to eliminate the long time stayers and farangs without cash. but it should work as in the court, to give somebody the benefit of the doubt, can't punish everyone bacause of some black sheep.

Even then i believe farangs without cash have to spend more than many thais living in villages and changwats, defenetely they will not cost TH money.

Backpackers nowadays got much more requirements than years ago. they need power plugs for their various chargers, a wifi point for their laptop, some mp3 station and what ever we didn't need in our times without all that electronic and could stay in any shack. see khao san where you now got guesthouses which cost 2000 baht a room. i.e. buddy - i stayed there for 50 baht 19 years ago....

And yes, with the tourist industry suffering this year, is this restriction that important now?

why indonesia can give 2 mths, malaysia 3 mths without any fees?

The snobbery on here is hilarious.

.........Scoff at the independent and backpacker crowd all you like, but they undisputably form a very large section of Thailand's tourism market (the biggest, if you refer to the stats and read them in detail), and many of them drift around SE Asia, using Thailand as a hub. We all know that and there's nothing wrong with that. It's been actively encouraged afterall, what with the fancy new aiport and it's vastly superior capacity that serves as a regional hub, coupled with the massive marketing campaigns in the west by the likes of Air Asia et al.

..................

Losers.

[skepticatheist2]

I just visited the Chaing Mai Immigration Office (15 Dec 2008) to discuss the new 15 day visa extension. The official told me that you can get unlimited 15-day extensions, which I suppose is adequate if you live in Mai Sai or Chaing Rai. He also indicated that the 2 month visa (extendable to 3 months), obtainable at a Thai consulate outside of Thailand, can now be

obtained immediately after your 3 month visa expires. You do not have to wait for the date that corresponds to 6 months after the date of issue of the 1st 3 month visa. In other words, you can get 2 "back to back" 3 months visas, but will have to leave Thailand to get them.

I_just_visited_the_Chaing_Mai_Immigration_Office.txt

[deanosan3]

The whole notion of visa control on where people can and cannot live is archaic - allowing the world's population free movement wherever they wish is the only way to slowly share the wealth of the world more evenly. At the moment it is all about money and has nothing to do with peoples rights - if you are comparatively rich enough you can go to a poorer country and live like a king - if you are poor, then you are stuck where you are! Of course while people still believe that "nationality" is a good thing then each country will selfishly continue to cherry pick who they share their wealth with.

Sorry but the socialist wet dream of an egalitarian utopia in the world is a fairy tale and has ended in disaster every time it's been tried.

Checks and balances, that's the capitalist way and its worked well for thousands of years. You work and you get rewarded.

It encourages you to work your way up from the bottom to the top, something I've managed fairly well (well, not quite the top, but up there if you know what I mean).

I've got a non-immigrant 'o' from good ole' Hull consulate. I can't complain about that one.

But I have noticed that the other nationalities don't have it as easy as us so they are starting to move on elsewhere alas.

removal of national boundaries is actually a capitalists wet dream

It's a dream of one world fascists not capitalists and one world communists not socialists. Money and big business already disregard international borders. People on the other hand have to wait. And I'm not totally displeased with that. The system just needs to be fair, not scrapped. But primarily, no borders is a socialist utopian wet dream. Fascism is not capitalism.

[deanosan3]

Has this been the most hottest debated topic ever on Thai Visa.

It's the one that refuses to go away!

[Lite Beer]

Has this been the most hottest debated topic ever on Thai Visa.

It's the one that refuses to go away!

We had all this the last time they changed the rules.

[deanosan3]

To the few arrogant weasels of this thread:

Perhaps some of you would be better off living in Singapore where there is a DNA test for moral superiority as a prerequisite to entrance? Maybe you'll find your SE Asian, farangless Marco Polo "all-the-girls-to-yourselves" utopia there?

Get going boys. They hand out work visas too!

There's a lot of high and mighty talk from some people here. Looks like many of the Brits have brought the class system with them as well. Sorry lads, no more Australias to dump your refuse off on anymore. Many make it sound as if getting a work permit is like signing up for air miles or a Starbucks Latte card. Many users of Thai Visa are probably in what the highfalutin would call, riff-raff character area. If they go, a lot of Thai Visa traffic, a site on which many users depend, will go as well. Much of the traffic be newcomers yet to provoke your disdain. A good portion are foreigners selling their bikes or houses because the rules have changed etc; then having to buy them back again. And many are just people who live here and give good advice about visas without handing out judgement.

There isn't an IndonesianVisa or MalaysianVisa website like this because neither one of those places attract the kind of adventurers that turn into your 'riff raff.' I'm a fan of this website because llke everyone else who uses it I'm a fan of this country. Thailand happily absorbs these people whether it admits it or not. It's like the skin trade, it is technically illegal, but it is almost 1.5% of Thailand's GDP. The underground economy here, like many places in this amazing part of the world IS the economy. If push came to shove, Thailand would throw out all you 'legit-ers' for the droves and droves of visa runners on the principle of sheer volume. So before you get on your high horse(s) maybe you'd like to share a story about your first visit to Thailand? You've never paid off a traffic ticket or indulged in illegal indulgences? We would all like to get rid of the riff raff in every country. But I believe you don't throw the baby out with the bath water. If you're looking for Nirvana, see how you like it when you're the one that has to do the dirty work.

We have all enjoyed/endured the fact of local corruption. Those who do not benefit from the expat company umbrella are no less deserving of a say-- seeing as we spend our money too. Many indulge in the fantasy when, one day, the Robin Hood or Ko Samed is emptied of "unsightly farangs". I wish it were the 90s again too. But how long would the good times last if the underpinnings of the underground economy disappear and grind this beatch to a halt?

Sawasdee

Edited December 15, 2008 by deanosan3

[deanosan3]

Has this been the most hottest debated topic ever on Thai Visa.

It's the one that refuses to go away!

We had all this the last time they changed the rules.

It's all part of the excitement

[bjhabal]

Has this been the most hottest debated topic ever on Thai Visa.

It's the one that refuses to go away!

We had all this the last time they changed the rules.

It's all part of the excitement

true, but its getting more to internet cafe than a serious information source specially to the new people who are looking for a direct answers and do not want to spend a full day to read 30 pages of mostly useless remarks.

I do not mind keeping it forever, but just change the headline or add the word "discussion" to it, so new comers know it is not what they are looking for.

Just an opinion, I maybe wrong too.

Bishop

[Maestro]

I just visited the Chaing Mai Immigration Office (15 Dec 2008) to discuss the new 15 day visa extension. The official told me that you can get unlimited 15-day extensions, which I suppose is adequate if you live in Mai Sai or Chaing Rai. He also indicated that the 2 month visa (extendable to 3 months), obtainable at a Thai consulate outside of Thailand, can now be

obtained immediately after your 3 month visa expires. You do not have to wait for the date that corresponds to 6 months after the date of issue of the 1st 3 month visa. In other words, you can get 2 "back to back" 3 months visas, but will have to leave Thailand to get them.

skepticatheist2, the information you posted is wrong:

1. There is no “15 day visa extension”.

2. It has always been possible to get back-to-back tourist visas. There has never been a need “to wait for the date that corresponds to 6 months after the date of issue of the 1st 3 month visa”

--

Maestro

[jasperguy]

THE BEST VISA in Thailand at the moment is the Education Visa 1 visa run gets you a 15 month visa this can be extended from 1-10 years, and the second year is extended in Thailand no border runs very comfortable , my boyfriend got his 20 months ago and he as never had a problem www.tlslanguageschool.com were honest and everything they told us as been true and my boyfriend thai as advanced so much its now dangerous for me whentalking Thai about him.

I looked into this visa, pretty pricey! or as they say in Thai "Peng Maak", but it does solve a lot of problems. At least your BF is getting fluent in Thai now.

[bunbury999]

If any one could help me on this, I would appreciate this - here is my situation:

-Arrived in Thailand on Aug 30.

-Made border run to Cambodia on Sept 28.

-Went to Vientiane on Oct 17 - recieved 60 day tourist visa.

-In Bangkok today (Dec 15), received 30 day tourist visa extension.

Given these circumstances, will I still be able to make a border run on Jan 14 (when visa expires)? If so, will I then need to follow the 15 day guideline?

Thank you.

[Esper]

As the number of tourists decline by 50 % it is only natural that border runs need to go up 50% so they are not out of pocket.....if you see what I mean.

Excellent!

By the way, are you still with us in Thailand. The pound has been below 55 for some weeks now..

[Maestro]

…Given these circumstances, will I still be able to make a border run on Jan 14 (when visa expires)? If so, will I then need to follow the 15 day guideline? …

Yes, and yes.

--

Maestro

[Tod Daniels]

THE BEST VISA in Thailand at the moment is. .. .. SORRY: SHAMELESS ADVERTISING PLUG REMOVED..

Sadly I think "LittleTina" is a covert poster to push TLS, seeing as every one of her posts mentions it, lol. .. …

I looked into this visa, pretty pricey!

If you think $800US is "pretty pricey", for a valid VISA, to stay here a year and maybe on the outside chance (if you have half a clue) even learn to converse with the native inhabitants in their native language, you should find another pissant developing third world country to live in..

BACKON TOPIC:

To the long-stay, number counting, visa running "tourists" I think this is more a wake up call by this country to politely inform you to find a way to get legal, or find another country. Simply by perusing the published data this country has compiled you can see that (for the sake of argument let's call them;) "white tourists" make up less than 30% of what thailand considers "real valid tourists" in terms of sheer numbers. If we rule out that 2 out of 3 of those are "real valid tourists"; one's who come here then leave (not long-stayers in disguise), what we are left with is a very small number of people. These are people whose loss will impact the glorious "Land 'O Thais" very little from the country's perspective. Also another quick perusal will show that in 2007 international tourists stay an average of ONLY 9.19 days, yet spend on average 4,120.95 Baht PER day. I doubt some of the "visa runners/number counters" who live in my area spend that in a month.

I am not saying that long-stay "white tourists" don't spend their money here, don't pump baht thru the "Issan gravy train", buy land and/or build houses for their "(in)significant others and/or contribute in other more insignificant ways. I am only saying the current change of rules will hardly affect what this country considers "real honest to goodness tourists" in the least.

Thailand will most likely remain a S/E Asia tourist destination for. .. get this; OTHER asians (I know it makes your mind wobble, doesn't it?).

[Mario2008]

If any one could help me on this, I would appreciate this - here is my situation:

-Arrived in Thailand on Aug 30.

-Made border run to Cambodia on Sept 28.

-Went to Vientiane on Oct 17 - recieved 60 day tourist visa.

-In Bangkok today (Dec 15), received 30 day tourist visa extension.

Given these circumstances, will I still be able to make a border run on Jan 14 (when visa expires)? If so, will I then need to follow the 15 day guideline?

Thank you.

As Maestro said. You could also get another (double) tourist visa from Vientiane.

[DonGato]

Ok... please come, spend all your money in 15 days and then go home...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Ok... please come, spend all your money in 15 days and then go home...

getting a visa remains an option.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Tina's spam deleted

[sunholidaysun1]

There is no problem for anyone to stay in Thailand if you follow the rules and regulations. They dont want to get rid of anyone, if they did , they would have done so a long time ago.

The new 15 day rule is a small inconvieniance of having to go to the border and cross it every 15 days , however , you still have the option to go to an Embassy or Consulate outside of Thailand and get a tourist visa or whatever visa you qualify for.

I am under the retirement age and dont have any business here or legally married and no kids. That puts me in the riff-raff bracket as some are saying, yet at the age of 41 years old I retired. I came here to live in Thailand with enough money to live out my days very comfortably and for the first 2 years I returned to the UK for the 1 year visa ( multiple "O").

I didnt want to fly back to the UK, the long flight , the amount of time to get there, then somewhere to stay near an Embassy in order to get what I needed, then the long haul back again. So , I, like many others , follow the law and just do as they ask, go to another country and get whatever visa they will give . My trips have taken me to Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos all in search of a double entry visa , the longest visa I can get as a tourist.

Every Embassy or Consulate that I have been to apart from Vientienne in Laos , only issue SINGLE entry visa's. Laos is the only country that is issuing the double entry - FACT !!

Out of all the countries mentioned the Philippines - Manila, is the worst. They are the most unhelpful Embassy staff I have ever met. Double Entry visas were out of the question from them, BUT, when asking for a single entry myself and a friend were told we needed an airline ticket OUT of Thailand on completion of the 2 month visa. We stated that we may extend for 1 month , which you can do for a fee of 1900 bht from an Immigration office in Thailand. The Manila staff said , NO. They wanted to see the out bound ticket and said we would have to change our flight ticket IF we decided to extend the visa by 1 month. What me and my friend did was to go to a local internet cafe and bought the cheapest Air Asia tickets to Penang in 2 months time, at the end of the visa we to be given . On returning to the Embassy in Manila , what they then did was unbelievable . On passing all the paperwork and passports and flight tickets , the Clerk said , I am very sorry but the Ambassador has stated that we require a ticket back to Manila from Thailand if we are issuing the visa. We said we dont want to come back here , were going to Penang, so he said Im sorry , theres nothing I can do , my hands are tied , its the Embassy rule. We asked why he was being so unhelpful , trying to be as polite as we could , in hope of twisting his arm and giving us what we need. In the end he took all of our applications and said they were to be kept , gave us our passports back and told us we were not even going to get a single entry tourist visa. We flew back to BKK, got the 30 day tourist visa on arrival after spending 15 minutes for the arrivals officer to go through every page of our passports . Obviously something was put on file , even though we had done nothing wrong. At the end of the 30 days given on arrival , we flew to Penang after changing out flight tickets . In Penang we could only get a single entry . Philippines forget it !!

Staff at the Vietnam Embassy in Saigon - rude and unhelpful , but thats typical of vietnamese people, still have a big chip on their shoulders and you know why .

Cambodia - Phnom Phenn -rude and unhelpful

Penang - Ok but only issue single entry

KL - ok but same as Penang

Singapore - Ok , single entry

Laos will give you the double entry but make sure you have no mistakes on any of your paperwork, you have the correct photos and size, be polite and dont look like you have just crawled out of the gutter or the nearest bar after an all night session (is poosible , even in Laos ). If you make a mistake on your paperwork you will only get the single , they wont let you change and amend the error !! Be warned.

Also , we dont know how long this will last , maybe they will only give out single entries one day but at least you dont have to go anywhere now as long as you can put up with the very small inconvieniance of going to the border every 15 days. A small price to pay for being allowed to stay here in Thailand WITHIN the Law.

Theres nothing else to discuss.

[Jingthing]

The new 15 day rule is a small inconvieniance of having to go to the border and cross it every 15 days

What is the logic behind any inconvenience in a country with a tanking economy and tourist industry in a global environment of economic meltdown?

A good model for Thailand tourism? Another desperate country, Argentina. There you get THREE MONTHS on arrival (NO VISA) can take visa runs and get additional THREE MONTHS, and if you do happen to overstay you pay a TINY FINE with no criminal consequences when leaving the country. Is this hurting Argentina? NO! BTW, there is a catch 22 and it is a way to block people from permanently MOVING to Argentina with these tourist visas. Without a proper visa there you can't really DO anything, can't open a bank account, can't get utilities in your name, etc. So for those who decide they will move there for good, there is a strong incentive to get proper visas. But otherwise you can hang out for years and years as a long term tourist and you are very WELCOME to do that.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Jingthing

[sunholidaysun1]

The new 15 day rule is a small inconvieniance of having to go to the border and cross it every 15 days

What is the logic behind any inconvenience in a country with a tanking economy and tourist industry in a global environment of economic meltdown?

A good model for Thailand tourism? Another desperate country, Argentina. There you get THREE MONTHS on arrival (NO VISA) can take visa runs and get additional THREE MONTHS, and if you do happen to overstay you pay a TINY FINE with no criminal consequences when leaving the country. Is this hurting Argentina? NO! BTW, there is a catch 22 and it is a way to block people from permanently MOVING to Argentina with these tourist visas. Without a proper visa there you can't really DO anything, can't open a bank account, can't get utilities in your name, etc. So for those who decide they will move there for good, there is a strong incentive to get proper visas. But otherwise you can hang out for years and years as a long term tourist and you are very WELCOME to do that.

We ALL have a choice !! We abide by the rules of what ever country it is. I didnt say I agree with anything here in Thailand but to be allowed to stay here I must follow the rules . If everyone is moaning about the government and the rules and you dont like what they are doing, then LEAVE. No one is asking you to stay . It is my choice to do the 15 day run until I get fed up with that and pop into Laos or even return home to get the 1 year. It really isnt a problem and if you are living in Chiang Rai as I am , then its only 2 trips out and 1000 bht per month . If I went to Laos it would cost me 1500 Laos visa plus 2000, D/E Visa and 1300 Bus return, plus over night room, food and drink , on average costs me about 7000 bht . Going to the border at Chiang Rai costs 500 bht per 15 days plus the gas for my car 300 return , so its cheaper for me as it only costs me 6,400 for 4 months , no food or over night charges etc . And I dont have to put up with a 14 hour bus trip to Nong Kai and same on return . If its a bind to travel to the border from where you are , then move .

[JetsetBkk]

Phuket Immigration clarifies new visa rules

PHUKET CITY: At a press conference held late yesterday, Phuket Immigration confirmed that foreigners arriving without visas at any of Thailand’s non-airport immigration checkpoints will be granted permits-to-stay of only 15 days, half the former number.

The conference was led by Phuket Immigration Superintendent Chanatpol Yongbunjerd, who also confirmed that the former rule limiting foreigners entering on “visa exemptions” from staying more than 90 days over a 180-day period was no longer in effect.

As a result, foreigners from any of the 40 countries eligible for “visa exemptions” can now legally reside in Thailand year-round, provided they don’t mind making a “visa run” every 15 days (30 days if by air) and abide by all other laws and regulations.

<snip>

Capt Napat implored people with non-immigrant visas planning to apply for permit-to-stay extensions to submit their applications no fewer than two weeks before their current permit is set to expire.

Full story here: http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.as...9&display=1

Edit: added last paragraph.

Edited December 16, 2008 by JetsetBkk