Santika Club Owner Meets Police; Prepares To Compensate Victims

[john b good]

No licence, no insurance, no emergency lighting, no (or insufficient) fire extinguishers, exit doors welded shut, insufficient emergency exits, non fire retardent materials being used.......

Exit doors welded shut? I haven't seen this one yet. Where did you read that? Locked doors was the primary reason for all the deaths at the Kader factory fire in 1993 and I know that one is now in the codes.

Santika did have a license and was operating legally via the Adm. Court injunction. What may be an issue is whether its license allowed it to operate past midnight. While the Bangkok Post originally wrote that Santika had to close by midnight, nothing more has been written about this anywhere, including the Bangkok Post.

i second that where was it reported that the doors were welded shut???

If you read the original thread (read it thoroughly that should read) you would have seen where "one of the British survivors interviewed on the BBC said he reached a door and found it welded shut".

[aromsia]

No licence, no insurance, no emergency lighting, no (or insufficient) fire extinguishers, exit doors welded shut, insufficient emergency exits, non fire retardent materials being used.......

Exit doors welded shut? I haven't seen this one yet. Where did you read that? Locked doors was the primary reason for all the deaths at the Kader factory fire in 1993 and I know that one is now in the codes.

Santika did have a license and was operating legally via the Adm. Court injunction. What may be an issue is whether its license allowed it to operate past midnight. While the Bangkok Post originally wrote that Santika had to close by midnight, nothing more has been written about this anywhere, including the Bangkok Post.

i second that where was it reported that the doors were welded shut???

If you read the original thread (read it thoroughly that should read) you would have seen where "one of the British survivors interviewed on the BBC said he reached a door and found it welded shut".

That door will probably soon "disappear..."

[tb86]

No licence, no insurance, no emergency lighting, no (or insufficient) fire extinguishers, exit doors welded shut, insufficient emergency exits, non fire retardent materials being used.......

Exit doors welded shut? I haven't seen this one yet. Where did you read that? Locked doors was the primary reason for all the deaths at the Kader factory fire in 1993 and I know that one is now in the codes.

Santika did have a license and was operating legally via the Adm. Court injunction. What may be an issue is whether its license allowed it to operate past midnight. While the Bangkok Post originally wrote that Santika had to close by midnight, nothing more has been written about this anywhere, including the Bangkok Post.

i second that where was it reported that the doors were welded shut???

If you read the original thread (read it thoroughly that should read) you would have seen where "one of the British survivors interviewed on the BBC said he reached a door and found it welded shut".

ok it was reported that it was welded shut, but it has yet to be confirmed by any govt. agency or inspections?

[BkkAnimalover]

I sadly confirm that also Mr.Yeo Bee Soon has been positively identified as one of the nameless deceased

[Johpa]

Bartender! A whiskey for my friend and some water for his high horse.

I will gladly take that there whiskey, but if my tired old mare that has been around for decades appears high to you then you either need to stay away from the bottle or get yourself a new ride.

Happy Trails

Johpa

[oceano]

Re the top down fire theory - very unlikely. Fire burns up very quickly, down slowly.

Gal iron would suck the heat out of any firework until it stopped, if it was an asbestos cement (or modern equivalent) it would have been impervious to a fire from above. Aluminium will burn, but only in a very hot fire - not from fireworks landing on the roof. Al would also suck the heat out of any fireworks.

The only roof material likely to be burnt through from a firework above would be polycarbonate - as in a skylight. Did Santika have skylights? Doubt it, but someone will know. Looking at google earth - overexposed, but does not appear to have skylights. (Google earth - search santika)

Also, does not appear to have many overlooking neighbours.

I think I could state quite safely that no normal roofing material (Ex thatch, grass etc - I mean in general use in Bangkok) - could be penetrated by regular fireworks.

A high rate of spread inside would tend to indicate that the roof was not breached - as if it had it would permit a draught, taking the flames and smoke out - reducing the rate of spread inside.

This does not exclude the possibility of arson.

Perhaps we need a uni to test the different theories. Maybe here, perhaps better overseas.

Eyewitness evidence first - should reduce the number of theories.

I think you're wrong , flying fireworks are a leading cause of fires. They land on roofs and cause fires all the time. That's why they are illegal in western countries and I believe here in Thailand too.

Most fireworks contain Magnesium which burns very, very hot. As pointed out earlier , tar paper is used on roofs through out Bangkok and it is quite flammable, we don't know what the roof was made of but I'll bet it wasn't with expensive fire resistant material in any way above min standard.

The theory that some curtains or something caught fron pyrotehnics near the stage , and just a minute or 2 later the roof comes crashing down, through the ceiling ...and the electricity goes out .

That's what's " unlikely. " Yeah fire burns up - except when it's on a roof , then it burns wherever there's fuel, namely, down.

I'll say it again, there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

I'll agree though, Thailand ain't safe - laws are in place, it's the enforcement that isn't.

Why you dont give to us the opportunity for try if is like that whit you?

We put you in one room, we half block the door and we see the effect of the fire in your body...understand me is only for foresinc medical exam about the effect of the fire in your body...not because we want you burn....we will give you also a botle of whisky( that what they have for stop the fire inside) for try to stop the fire ok?

Are people like you that live free people like the owner and are people like you that live people like the owner make a new club whit the same condition...

I hope in the next club him make will stay your family so you understand what that mean....and of course all us will make effort for put the owner free again because there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

Take care and advertise us when you want make the experiment.

ciao

[mrtoad]

No licence, no insurance, no emergency lighting, no (or insufficient) fire extinguishers, exit doors welded shut, insufficient emergency exits, non fire retardent materials being used.......

Exit doors welded shut? I haven't seen this one yet. Where did you read that? Locked doors was the primary reason for all the deaths at the Kader factory fire in 1993 and I know that one is now in the codes.

Santika did have a license and was operating legally via the Adm. Court injunction. What may be an issue is whether its license allowed it to operate past midnight. While the Bangkok Post originally wrote that Santika had to close by midnight, nothing more has been written about this anywhere, including the Bangkok Post.

i second that where was it reported that the doors were welded shut???

If you read the original thread (read it thoroughly that should read) you would have seen where "one of the British survivors interviewed on the BBC said he reached a door and found it welded shut".

ok it was reported that it was welded shut, but it has yet to be confirmed by any govt. agency or inspections?

Of course, they are so honest.

[mrtoad]

Why you dont give to us the opportunity for try if is like that whit you?

We put you in one room, we half block the door and we see the effect of the fire in your body...understand me is only for foresinc medical exam about the effect of the fire in your body...not because we want you burn....we will give you also a botle of whisky( that what they have for stop the fire inside) for try to stop the fire ok?

Are people like you that live free people like the owner and are people like you that live people like the owner make a new club whit the same condition...

I hope in the next club him make will stay your family so you understand what that mean....and of course all us will make effort for put the owner free again because there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

Take care and advertise us when you want make the experiment.ciao

Oceano, you may be getting lost in translation, so I apologise but you are contradicting what you said last night.

[oceano]

Why you dont give to us the opportunity for try if is like that whit you?

We put you in one room, we half block the door and we see the effect of the fire in your body...understand me is only for foresinc medical exam about the effect of the fire in your body...not because we want you burn....we will give you also a botle of whisky( that what they have for stop the fire inside) for try to stop the fire ok?

Are people like you that live free people like the owner and are people like you that live people like the owner make a new club whit the same condition...

I hope in the next club him make will stay your family so you understand what that mean....and of course all us will make effort for put the owner free again because there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

Take care and advertise us when you want make the experiment.ciao

Oceano, you may be getting lost in translation, so I apologise but you are contradicting what you said last night.

No i said the same...are all responsible for that..ownwer and SIR that take money and try to find the way to save them is cruel...same same.

So put the people that try to excuse them in one room and see if they like...

OPS i forget...in pattaya i see some fireworks go on the roof of one complex at the end of the beach were start walking street...immediatly one man go there and stop the small fire.

Then i look and many bulding, i think whit the roof in danger for the fire, had one man in top to check.

So whit small money(for the owner) him can make before a safety inside there and the people now are alive.

ciao

Edited January 5, 2009 by oceano

[mrtoad]

^^ I'm lost, on the last post, but you did say in earlier post that we should leave the people who own the club alone?

[Alliecat]

I sadly confirm that also Mr.Yeo Bee Soon has been positively identified as one of the nameless deceased

I am very sorry for your, and his family's loss. As I am sure many others on this thread are too.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Alliecat

[tb86]

No licence, no insurance, no emergency lighting, no (or insufficient) fire extinguishers, exit doors welded shut, insufficient emergency exits, non fire retardent materials being used.......

Exit doors welded shut? I haven't seen this one yet. Where did you read that? Locked doors was the primary reason for all the deaths at the Kader factory fire in 1993 and I know that one is now in the codes.

Santika did have a license and was operating legally via the Adm. Court injunction. What may be an issue is whether its license allowed it to operate past midnight. While the Bangkok Post originally wrote that Santika had to close by midnight, nothing more has been written about this anywhere, including the Bangkok Post.

i second that where was it reported that the doors were welded shut???

If you read the original thread (read it thoroughly that should read) you would have seen where "one of the British survivors interviewed on the BBC said he reached a door and found it welded shut".

ok it was reported that it was welded shut, but it has yet to be confirmed by any govt. agency or inspections?

Of course, they are so honest.

Come on, of course not, lets be honest these boards are not exactly accurate 80% of the time, the "well i read it somewhere" it must be true attitude runs rampant around here. No one really knows what happened that night, including the investors, police ect. Alot of people died and were injured that is the only fact no one will argue about. Making bold claims that anyone of us has some insight to what really happened is unfair and irresponsible to those who lost loved ones and to those involved in the whole disaster, until this is all sorted out no one really knows.

[hammockwoman]

dissolution, i too have been coming back to the thread to see if you have had news about your friends, and am heartbroken to learn of your loss. i cannot even imagine what you are going through.

my deepest condolences to you, to anna, and to all who have lost friends, family and loved ones in this horrific tragedy. regardless of people's theories and fingerpointing and need to blame, life brings us things that often we simply cannot understand. please make sure to be kind to yourself, and don't forget that you did the best you could.

and remember that there are many people who are here to support you during this time. don't be afraid to reach out, or to ask for help or support. we will keep you in our thoughts.

[oceano]

^^ I'm lost, on the last post, but you did say in earlier post that we should leave the people who own the club alone?

i said the opposite...listen dont try to change the word for make flame..you are not new about that so please stop and live us quite, when have tragic things like this it's not the right time.

tank so much

Edited January 5, 2009 by oceano

[PaulR]

What a terrible tragedy, although not surprising. While the club owners are culpable the real blame lies with the Thai govt. This tragedy is the product of weak institutions, judiciary, law enforcement etc. A British survivor stated that "laws should be written to protect the people". In fact building and fire codes do exist but as anyone who has spent more that a month in Thailand knows, there is only cursory inspection for the sake of show, while any serious infraction is simply used as a means for the local police to farm funds. Sorry to say that until Thais develop a critical voice, demand transparency/accountability from their govt. these tragedies will continue. One exit, no working sprinkler system and indoor fireworks! As you all are equally aware Thailand in a country of vast resources that paints itself as a third world state. Maybe if the thousands traipsing around in yellow would do a bit of reading they would discover that their nation is the 8th largest exporter of agricultural goods on the planet (read, exceptionally wealthy!) This wealth being controlled by a relative few families. The point being its time for Thailand to stop reveling in false idolatry, pomp and ceremony and demand functional institutions. This all could have so easily been prevented! Heart felt sorrow and condolences to all who have suffered so needlessly.

[JacknDanny]

Why you dont give to us the opportunity for try if is like that whit you?

We put you in one room, we half block the door and we see the effect of the fire in your body...understand me is only for foresinc medical exam about the effect of the fire in your body...not because we want you burn....we will give you also a botle of whisky( that what they have for stop the fire inside) for try to stop the fire ok?

Are people like you that live free people like the owner and are people like you that live people like the owner make a new club whit the same condition...

I hope in the next club him make will stay your family so you understand what that mean....and of course all us will make effort for put the owner free again because there's not one shred of evidence the Club owners were negligent in any way causing the fatalities.

Take care and advertise us when you want make the experiment.ciao

Oceano, you may be getting lost in translation, so I apologise but you are contradicting what you said last night.

Congrats to you toady, as I cannot make head nor tail of what oceano is saying or trying to say

Regarding the owner, I have been told that despite him having extremely well placed connections, that an example will be made of him. It is going to cost him an unprecedented amount of money, and he WILL do jail time.

[sriracha john]

Blazing pub was 'a deathtrap'

Investigators slam lack of safety equipment

The Santika Club, which became a deadly inferno in the first hour of Jan 1, was a deathtrap due to hazardous materials inside and a lack of safety equipment, an engineering expert says. Pitchaya Chantranuwat, head of the building safety sub-committee of the Engineering Institute of Thailand, made the assessment after inspecting the debris of Santika yesterday with crime scene investigators and public works officials from the BMA. Pitchaya said the pub lacked basic equipment to deal with a fire, including emergency lamps, fire exit signs, and sprinklers. The three exits for its area of about 400 square metres were insufficient to deal with 400 guests, he said. Had it had sufficient sprinklers, emergency lights, and more prominent fire exit signs, revellers could have escaped and survived the fire, Pitchaya said. The main gate of the pub was 2.18 metres wide. In case of fire, the door would be adequate for just 200 people to escape, he said. Pitchaya also said there were a large number of highly inflammable materials in the pub such as fibreglass, resin, and plastic. The pub's walls were lined with polystyrene. When the material caught fire, it emitted toxic gases that caused victims to pass out, he added. Vicharn Peawnim, a forensic doctor at Ramathibodi Hospital, said carbon monoxide, which is a toxic gas, was the main cause of deaths in the pub fire. The gas replaces oxygen in blood, so many victims died when their brains were deprived of oxygen, he said.

The Foundation for Consumers recommended a convenient way for victims of the Santika pub fire and their relatives to demand reasonable compensation. Foundation secretary-general Saree Ongsomwang said under the Consumer Case Procedure Act effective last year, victims of the pub fire could be considered as consumers who had the right to demand reasonable compensation from the operators concerned. She said the new act provides fast process of compensation demands and judges can raise compensation for victims and fine wrongdoers. Representatives of White & Brothers, the company that operated Santika, received compensation requests from victims and their relatives at the Thong Lor police station yesterday. According to Pongsak Poolcharoen, the company's lawyer, 31 shareholders of Santika raised two million baht from their own pockets to initially help victims. The company will accept compensation demands until Friday. It received only about 50 demands yesterday, the lawyer said. Among complainants, Thanakorn Duangsawat, 34, said the treatment in the first three days for his 25-year-old sister Anchitcha, whose body suffered 10 per cent burns, had cost as much as 240,000 baht. He expects the bill to reach 300,000 baht.

The death toll from the Santika pub fire reached 64 as Japanese victim Keiichi Wada died on Sunday night. Of the 68 injured, 35 remained in ICUs yesterday.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/9188...7a-deathtrap%27

Edited January 6, 2009 by sriracha john

[john b good]

From this mornings Bangkok Post.....

Blazing pub was 'a deathtrap'

Investigators slam lack of safety equipment

By: POST REPORTERS

Published: 6/01/2009 at 12:00 AM

The Santika Club, which became a deadly inferno in the first hour of Jan 1, was a deathtrap due to hazardous materials inside and a lack of safety equipment, an engineering expert says.

Pitchaya Chantranuwat, head of the building safety sub-committee of the Engineering Institute of Thailand, made the assessment after inspecting the debris of Santika on Soi Ekamai yesterday with crime scene investigators and public works officials from the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration.

Mr Pitchaya said the pub lacked basic equipment to deal with a fire, including emergency lamps, fire exit signs and sprinklers.

The three exits for its area of about 400 square metres were insufficient to deal with 400 guests, he said.

Had it had sufficient sprinklers, emergency lights and more prominent fire exit signs, revellers could have escaped and survived the fire, Mr Pitchaya said.

The main gate of the pub was 2.18 metres wide.

In case of fire, the door would be adequate for just 200 people to escape, he said.

Mr Pitchaya also said there were a large number of highly inflammable materials in the pub such as fibreglass, resin and plastic.

The pub's walls were lined with polystyrene.

When the material caught fire, it emitted toxic gases that caused victims to pass out, he added.

Vicharn Peawnim, a forensic doctor at Ramathibodi Hospital, said carbon monoxide, which was a toxic gas, was the main cause of deaths in the pub fire. The gas replaces oxygen in blood, so many victims died when their brains were deprived of oxygen, he said.

It would be easier to treat burnt skin than to treat people who inhaled toxic gases, the doctor said.

Arthi Krueawit, a surgeon at the same hospital, agreed toxic smoke was extremely dangerous.

In the first week after the blaze, the clogged alveoli of their contaminated lungs could swell up causing acute respiratory failure, he said.

Such victims should return to doctors and use respirators that will replace toxic substances in their lungs with oxygen, he suggested.

The Foundation for Consumers recommended a convenient way for victims of the Santika pub fire and their relatives to demand reasonable compensation.

Foundation secretary-general Saree Ongsomwang said under the Consumer Case Procedure Act effective last year, victims of the pub fire could be considered as consumers who had the right to demand reasonable compensation from the operators concerned.

She said the new act provides fast process of compensation demands and judges can raise compensation for victims and fine wrongdoers.

Representatives of White & Brothers, the company that operated Santika, received compensation requests from victims and their relatives at the Thong Lor police station yesterday.

According to Pongsak Poolcharoen, the company's lawyer, 31 shareholders of Santika raised two million baht from their own pockets to initially help victims.

The company will accept compensation demands until Friday. It received only about 50 demands yesterday, the lawyer said.

Among complainants, Thanakorn Duangsawat, 34, said the treatment in the first three days for his 25-year-old sister Anchitcha, whose body suffered 10 per cent burns, had cost as much as 240,000 baht.

She had been released from an intensive care unit (ICU) at Bangkok Hospital on Sunday and would be admitted until tomorrow. He expects the bill to reach 300,000 baht.

The death toll from the Santika pub fire reached 64 as Japanese victim Keiichi Wada died on Sunday night. Of the 68 injured, 35 remained in ICUs yesterday.

Police Forensic Science Department chief Pol Maj-Gen Danaithorn Wongthai said evidence had been gathered including video clippings from the mobile phones of visitors at the pub.

Police are still waiting to finalise witness accounts. So far more than 100 witnesses have spoken to police.

Thong Lor police station chief Pol Col Suthin Sapphuang said police wanted to interrogate Suriya Ritrabue, managing director of White & Brothers, but his whereabouts were unknown. Police issued a summons for Mr Suriya and 12 other pub executives to come forward for questioning tomorrow.

Nice to see some logic being shown.

p.s. nice SJ to see someone other than myself reads the Bangkok Post online.

Edited January 6, 2009 by john b good

[brahmburgers]

suggest:

Authorities get experts to build a scale model of the club - using the same materials - or at least the stage area where some eyewitnesses said the fire started.

Also, build an exact model of a section of the roof structure - where some others say it started.

Both those models can be used to test whether pyrotechnics/firecrackers could have started the blazes.

A more thorough model would show how quickly the blaze traveled, and the emissions of toxic smoke/gases.

[leadsinger2005]

Our international panel's summary recommendations for investigations in connection with the New Years Eve disaster in the Ekamai/Thong Lo District of Bangkok:

1. Governor / Mayor of Bangkok – potential gross inconsistency of administration and dereliction of responsibility wherein on the one hand investing hundreds of millions of taxpayers' Baht in firefighting equipment and on the other hand failing to set and/or enforce fire-life safety codes, standards and regulations for public places such as restaurants, bars and nightclubs including setting inspections for safe ingress/egress, hazardous materials such as flammable insulation, maximum occupancy standards, etc. The civil and criminal investigations must focus on the degree to which Mayoral failures of setting and enforcing various codes, standards, regulations and ensuring regular inspection lead to or contributed to loss of life and injury. Thai law provides for significant prison sentences and fines and confiscation of property of public officials convicted of dereliction of responsibility.

2. Police Precinct Captain - dereliction of responsibility in failing to enforce fire-life safety codes, standards and regulations for public places such as restaurants, bars and nightclubs including maximum occupancy standards, etc. The civil and criminal investigations must focus on the degree to which the Police Precinct Captain's failure to enforce regulations lead to or contributed to loss of life and injury. Thai law provides for significant prison sentences and fines and confiscation of property of public officials convicted of dereliction of responsibility.

3. Fire Battalion Commander - dereliction of responsibility in failing to enforce fire-life safety codes, standards and regulations for public places such as restaurants, bars and nightclubs including maximum occupancy standards, regular inspections for hazards and flammable materials, safety and adequacy of emergency exits, etc. The civil and criminal investigations must focus on the degree to which the Fire Battalion Commander's failure to enforce regulations lead to or contributed to loss of life and injury. Thai law provides for significant prison sentences and fines and confiscation of property of public officials convicted of dereliction of responsibility.

4. Building Owner – building owners in Bangkok who lease their facilities for public use such as restaurants, nightclubs and other retail operations are required by law to ensure that their tenant (s) operate in the best interests of public safely. Building owners who ignore unsafe practices including presence of flammable materials, operations that exceed safe occupancy and lack of emergency equipment and emergency exits are liable for civil and criminal prosecution and risk significant prison sentences, fines and confiscation of property including forfeiting their title to land and buildings on which such improper activities take place. Building owners are also liable for personal injury and death settlements to individuals and families who sustain injury and loss of life. Further, such building owners are precluded from engaging in the lease of any other properties they may own for public uses for up to 100 years.

5. Business Owners/Operators - business owners/operators including silent partners and investors in Bangkok whose business(es) operate facilities for public use such as restaurants, nightclubs and other retail are required by law to ensure that they operate in the best interests of customers and public safely. Business owners/operators who ignore unsafe practices including presence of flammable materials, operations that exceed safe occupancy and lack of emergency equipment and emergency exits are liable for civil and criminal prosecution and risk significant prison sentences, fines and confiscation of property including forfeiting their business assets. Business owners/operators are also liable for personal injury and death settlements to individuals and families who sustain injury and loss of life whether caused by their actions or lack of action including overall responsibility for all acts or lack of action of employees and contracted service providers such as performers. Further, such business owners/operators are precluded from engaging in the lease of any other properties for public uses for up to 100 years.

[Journalist]

Our international panel's summary recommendations for investigations in connection with the New Years Eve disaster in the Ekamai/Thong Lo District of Bangkok:

1. Governor / Mayor of Bangkok – potential gross inconsistency of administration and dereliction of responsibility wherein on the one hand investing hundreds of millions of taxpayers' Baht in firefighting equipment and on the other hand failing to set and/or enforce fire-life safety codes, standards and regulations for public places such as restaurants, bars and nightclubs including setting inspections for safe ingress/egress, hazardous materials such as flammable insulation, maximum occupancy standards, etc. The civil and criminal investigations must focus on the degree to which Mayoral failures of setting and enforcing various codes, standards, regulations and ensuring regular inspection lead to or contributed to loss of life and injury. Thai law provides for significant prison sentences and fines and confiscation of property of public officials convicted of dereliction of responsibility.

Uh-oh, that paragon of rectitude Apirak Kosayothin may have dropped the ball

"Resign!"

O, he already did, - over some other act of incendiary uselessness.

if an international panel decrees it, its worth reporting!

Edited January 6, 2009 by Journalist

[mrtoad]

^^ I'm lost, on the last post, but you did say in earlier post that we should leave the people who own the club alone?

i said the opposite...listen dont try to change the word for make flame..you are not new about that so please stop and live us quite, when have tragic things like this it's not the right time.

tank so much

It wasn't a flame, I was asking for some clarification on what you was trying to say, as it appeared to contradict an earlier post that you had made in respect of one of my posts.

[steffi]

Come on, of course not, lets be honest these boards are not exactly accurate 80% of the time, the "well i read it somewhere" it must be true attitude runs rampant around here. No one really knows what happened that night, including the investors, police ect. Alot of people died and were injured that is the only fact no one will argue about. Making bold claims that anyone of us has some insight to what really happened is unfair and irresponsible to those who lost loved ones and to those involved in the whole disaster, until this is all sorted out no one really knows.

So if an eye-witness says it, it can't be considered true by anybody until it's proven true by somebody else. Either you like playing devils advocate or you have something at stake. I for one will trust my gut on this one and that tells me that everything I've heard from the variety of different sources suggests a pattern of negligence and putting profits before safety and I'm not willing to give anybody the benefit of the doubt on that at this time. Secondly, I don't feel that I'm being irresponsible to any of those who lost loved ones. That is the same mentality that people use to stifle discussion about war. It's comes from the same ilk who believe that critiquing the management of war is not supporting the troops and that is insulting. Nobody here is an expert and anybody reading what we discuss can take that into consideration but that's no reason to simply shut down conversation about controversial issues.

[mrtoad]

Just going to post this again, as it is relevant in relation to responsibility of safe operation of an establishment. I think it was Ovena that translated this from one of the Thai papers. Anyway, as it is buried in the closed thread, then might as well put it here.

SANTIKA Pub was operated by White and Brothers (2003) Company Ltd., registered on November 13th, 2003 with 1.2 million Baht in initial capital investment, followed by an additional 2 million Baht investment on November 16th, 2006. Stock is divided into 400 shares at 5,000 Baht per share.

It was constructed at 235/11 Soi Sukhumvit 63, Ekamai, Sukhumvit Rd., Khwaeng Khlong Tan North, Khet Wattana, Bangkok 10110

The chairman of the board is listed as Mr. Suriya Ritrabeu.

However, Mr. Suriya is not a shareholder. He owns not even one share. Although Mr. Visuk Setsawat, or "Sia Khaao," is the owner of 32.25% of the shares, numbering129 shares, with a value of 645,000 Baht.

(There is a repeat of the first sentence, explaining the name of the company, "White and Brothers".)

List of the names of the shareholders, consisting of:

1. Mr. Nattaphol Wongmaneewan, holding 7.5% of shares, numbering 30 shares valued at 150,000 Baht.

2. Mr. Kittiphon Prichananon, holding 4.75% of shares, numbering 19 shares valued at 95,000 Baht.

3. Mr. Nattaphat Ditsaneevet, holding 4% of shares, numbering 16 shares valued at 80,000 Baht.

4. Mr. Prayon Laseua, holding 4% of shares, numbering 16 shares valued at 80,000 Baht.

5. Mr. Sathitphorn Ophatcharoensuk, holding 4% of shares, numbering 16 shares valued at 80,000 Baht.

6. Mr. Itsariya Songsuwan, holding 4% of shares, numbering 16 shares valued at 80,000 Baht.

7. Miss. Tharinee Seupsaman, holding 3.75% of shares, numbering 15 shares valued at 75,000 Baht.

8. Mr. Torsak Charoenwongsak, holding 3.5% of shares, numbering 14 shares valued at 70,000 Baht.

9. Mr. Khamthae Khajornsakul, holding 3% of shares, numbering 12 shares valued at 60,000 Baht.

10. Mr. Chaiyawat Nimitaphongsak, holding 3% of shares, numbering 12 shares valued at 60,000 Baht.

11. Mr. Davit Thiravittayangun, holding 3% of shares, numbering 12 shares valued at 60,000 Baht.

12. Mr. Rungyot Chanthaphasa, holding 3% of shares, numbering 12 shares valued at 60,000 Baht.

13. Mr. Khumphit Wattanachai, holding 1.75% of shares, numbering 7 shares valued at 35,000 Baht.

14. Mr. Thap Jira, holding 1.75% of shares, numbering 7 shares valued at 35,000 Baht.

15. Mr. Louis Scott, holding 1.75% of shares, numbering 7 shares valued at 35,000 Baht.

16. Mr. Kongkiat Ruamsin, holding 1.5% of shares, numbering 6 shares valued at 30,000 Baht.

17. Mr. Narong Worawatbancha, holding 1.5% of shares, numbering 6 shares valued at 30,000 Baht.

18. Mr. Nattakan Phoemphunsapthawi, holding 1.25% of shares, numbering 5 shares valued at 25,000 Baht.

19. Mr. Thatphum Kritsanawong, holding 1.25% of shares, numbering 5 shares valued at 25,000 Baht.

20. Mr. Prasit Jiyarom, holding 1.25% of shares, numbering 5 shares valued at 25,000 Baht.

21. Mr. Banjawat Aranthanawong, holding 1% of shares, numbering 4 shares valued at 20,000 Baht.

22. Mr. Viradej Phuchanakit, holding 1% of shares, numbering 4 shares valued at 20,000 Baht.

23. Mr. Viravudh Phuchanakit, holding 1% of shares, numbering 4 shares valued at 20,000 Baht

[steffi]

Just going to post this again, as it is relevant in relation to responsibility of safe operation of an establishment. I think it was Ovena that translated this from one of the Thai papers. Anyway, as it is buried in the closed thread, then might as well put it here.

SANTIKA Pub was operated by White and Brothers (2003) Company Ltd., registered on November 13th, 2003 with 1.2 million Baht in initial capital investment, followed by an additional 2 million Baht investment on November 16th, 2006. Stock is divided into 400 shares at 5,000 Baht per share.

It was constructed at 235/11 Soi Sukhumvit 63, Ekamai, Sukhumvit Rd., Khwaeng Khlong Tan North, Khet Wattana, Bangkok 10110

The chairman of the board is listed as Mr. Suriya Ritrabeu.

However, Mr. Suriya is not a shareholder. He owns not even one share. Although Mr. Visuk Setsawat, or "Sia Khaao," is the owner of 32.25% of the shares, numbering129 shares, with a value of 645,000 Baht.

(There is a repeat of the first sentence, explaining the name of the company, "White and Brothers".)

List of the names of the shareholders, consisting of:

1. Mr. Nattaphol Wongmaneewan, holding 7.5% of shares, numbering 30 shares valued at 150,000 Baht.

2. Mr. Kittiphon Prichananon, holding 4.75% of shares, numbering 19 shares valued at 95,000 Baht.

3. Mr. Nattaphat Ditsaneevet, holding 4% of shares, numbering 16 shares valued at 80,000 Baht.

4. Mr. Prayon Laseua, holding 4% of shares, numbering 16 shares valued at 80,000 Baht.

5. Mr. Sathitphorn Ophatcharoensuk, holding 4% of shares, numbering 16 shares valued at 80,000 Baht.

6. Mr. Itsariya Songsuwan, holding 4% of shares, numbering 16 shares valued at 80,000 Baht.

7. Miss. Tharinee Seupsaman, holding 3.75% of shares, numbering 15 shares valued at 75,000 Baht.

8. Mr. Torsak Charoenwongsak, holding 3.5% of shares, numbering 14 shares valued at 70,000 Baht.

9. Mr. Khamthae Khajornsakul, holding 3% of shares, numbering 12 shares valued at 60,000 Baht.

10. Mr. Chaiyawat Nimitaphongsak, holding 3% of shares, numbering 12 shares valued at 60,000 Baht.

11. Mr. Davit Thiravittayangun, holding 3% of shares, numbering 12 shares valued at 60,000 Baht.

12. Mr. Rungyot Chanthaphasa, holding 3% of shares, numbering 12 shares valued at 60,000 Baht.

13. Mr. Khumphit Wattanachai, holding 1.75% of shares, numbering 7 shares valued at 35,000 Baht.

14. Mr. Thap Jira, holding 1.75% of shares, numbering 7 shares valued at 35,000 Baht.

15. Mr. Louis Scott, holding 1.75% of shares, numbering 7 shares valued at 35,000 Baht.

16. Mr. Kongkiat Ruamsin, holding 1.5% of shares, numbering 6 shares valued at 30,000 Baht.

17. Mr. Narong Worawatbancha, holding 1.5% of shares, numbering 6 shares valued at 30,000 Baht.

18. Mr. Nattakan Phoemphunsapthawi, holding 1.25% of shares, numbering 5 shares valued at 25,000 Baht.

19. Mr. Thatphum Kritsanawong, holding 1.25% of shares, numbering 5 shares valued at 25,000 Baht.

20. Mr. Prasit Jiyarom, holding 1.25% of shares, numbering 5 shares valued at 25,000 Baht.

21. Mr. Banjawat Aranthanawong, holding 1% of shares, numbering 4 shares valued at 20,000 Baht.

22. Mr. Viradej Phuchanakit, holding 1% of shares, numbering 4 shares valued at 20,000 Baht.

23. Mr. Viravudh Phuchanakit, holding 1% of shares, numbering 4 shares valued at 20,000 Baht

If you're going to post that again then don't leave out their claimed revenue vs expenses which you have done here.

[tb86]

So if an eye-witness says it, it can't be considered true by anybody until it's proven true by somebody else. Either you like playing devils advocate or you have something at stake. I for one will trust my gut on this one and that tells me that everything I've heard from the variety of different sources suggests a pattern of negligence and putting profits before safety and I'm not willing to give anybody the benefit of the doubt on that at this time. Secondly, I don't feel that I'm being irresponsible to any of those who lost loved ones. That is the same mentality that people use to stifle discussion about war. It's comes from the same ilk who believe that critiquing the management of war is not supporting the troops and that is insulting. Nobody here is an expert and anybody reading what we discuss can take that into consideration but that's no reason to simply shut down conversation about controversial issues

no comment on that , but we have heard multiple versions of stories lets not forget drinking does tend to effect our memory and perspective especially in traumatic situations, im not saying that there should be no conversation about the events on nye but just take into consideration those that lost loved ones when making random claims and theories, because several members have lost, and are reading

[Scott]

A good friend of mine is a civil Engineer for a large factory and he is responsible for all construction as well as safety. He spends considerable time with all the relevant agencies anytime they do anything regarding construction, upgrading etc. He says the laws in Thailand are very, very strict and very numerous on all nearly all aspects of safety and fire prevention, but he said it really doesn't matter how closely you try to follow them, something is always not quite right--at least in someone's mind--and you end up paying. The Managing Director usually just wants to meet with the officials and make the payment in the first place because it's expensive to try to do all the things you need to, then go through the inspections and still end up paying them off.

The factory would rather be a safe place, they even have a full-time safety officer, but no matter what they do, it ends up with money in the hands of corrupt officials.

[mrtoad]

no comment on that , but we have heard multiple versions of stories lets not forget drinking does tend to effect our memory and perspective especially in traumatic situations, im not saying that there should be no conversation about the events on nye but just take into consideration those that lost loved ones when making random claims and theories, because several members have lost, and are reading

Thet are not random claims or theories, a lot of what has been said here and debated has been backed up by Fire investigators. Suggest you look at todays Bangkok post or SJ's earleier posting.

In fact I believe that most of the posters here have been very sympathetic to those directly affected by the tragedy, and it is important that this is discussed in length so that we can keep this on the front pages. Hopefully, those lives lost will not be in vain, if there is a tightning up of the regulations and better enforcement.

[mrtoad]

[if you're going to post that again then don't leave out their claimed revenue vs expenses which you have done here.

Oh, I am so sorry . However, the post was not in relation to expenses v claimed revenue, but who the individuals are in relation to ownership of the club.

If you want to post the finance figures, be my guest.

[steffi]

[if you're going to post that again then don't leave out their claimed revenue vs expenses which you have done here.

Oh, I am so sorry . However, the post was not in relation to expenses v claimed revenue, but who the individuals are in relation to ownership of the club.

If you want to post the finance figures, be my guest.

Here that is

Results from the operation of the business continuously over the 4 years, earning profits starting from:

Year 2004 - Earned 31,987,558.37 Baht. Net profit 1,215,209.20 Baht, or 5,063.37 Baht per share.

Year 2005 - Earned 36,453,469.59 Baht. Net profit 879,036.60 Baht, or 3,662.65 per share.

Year 2006 - Earned 45,556,210.40 Baht. Net profit 1,381,542.90 Baht, or 3,453.85 per share.

Year 2007 - Earned 70,074,171.79 Baht. Net profit 2,518,266.28, or 6,295.67 per share.