Santika Club Owner Meets Police; Prepares To Compensate Victims

[thaisomchai]

I have not been able to find a list of the names of the people who died. I have been at it steadily for two hours now.

All I can find is that weird list by hospital ( on their website?) which has notes like "He is from Singapore" and "she has died". This list has duplicates, is partly in Thai and is totally useless.

Does anyone have an official list, a link to an official list or a list drawn up by some competent authority of those who died?

I have heard that a former student is among the victims but I can't find anyplace to even check her name.

Edited January 6, 2009 by thaisomchai

[oceano]

misunderstanding.

Edited January 6, 2009 by oceano

[AnthonyR1]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold! i've been in the construction business for most of my working life and the last 7+ years in thailand, i know exactly how easy it is to increase fire safety in public places and know even better how the costs and time required to do so is met with pure ignorance and greed!

again my deepest condolences to all the friends and families of those who so pointlessly lost their lives. i hope that punishment is appropriate but i have seen this before, i'm saddened to say that i'm doubtful that ALL guilty parties will be punished.

[Old Man River]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold! i've been in the construction business for most of my working life and the last 7+ years in thailand, i know exactly how easy it is to increase fire safety in public places and know even better how the costs and time required to do so is met with pure ignorance and greed!

again my deepest condolences to all the friends and families of those who so pointlessly lost their lives. i hope that punishment is appropriate but i have seen this before, i'm saddened to say that i'm doubtful that ALL guilty parties will be punished.

If you have a link to the fire safety codes it will be useful to know at least what can be expected when we or our families walk into a building in Bangkok. Authorities in newspaper articles all say how the Santika wasn't up to codes. Probably not as it sounds like a newer building, but a link on e-Thailand that I found indicates that buildings constructed prior to 1992 don't have to comply with current fire safety codes, whatever they are.

Since you are now in Thailand in the construction business, does the BMA ever make safety inspections? Given that the police were trying in the courts to close Santika down, I would have thought that this would have been high on the list of buildings to inspect.

[bino]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold!

I'm sure that I got the same email as you Anthony, and the images are indeed horrific. It has affected me in the same way.

[AnthonyR1]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold! i've been in the construction business for most of my working life and the last 7+ years in thailand, i know exactly how easy it is to increase fire safety in public places and know even better how the costs and time required to do so is met with pure ignorance and greed!

again my deepest condolences to all the friends and families of those who so pointlessly lost their lives. i hope that punishment is appropriate but i have seen this before, i'm saddened to say that i'm doubtful that ALL guilty parties will be punished.

If you have a link to the fire safety codes it will be useful to know at least what can be expected when we or our families walk into a building in Bangkok. Authorities in newspaper articles all say how the Santika wasn't up to codes. Probably not as it sounds like a newer building, but a link on e-Thailand that I found indicates that buildings constructed prior to 1992 don't have to comply with current fire safety codes, whatever they are.

Since you are now in Thailand in the construction business, does the BMA ever make safety inspections? Given that the police were trying in the courts to close Santika down, I would have thought that this would have been high on the list of buildings to inspect.

inspections here are....how shall i put it....easy to get around. it's a sad fact. this is not news to most of you though. we all know the score.

what was 'trying' to be done in the courts and what was 'actually' done can be two different things.

the regulations here are more than adequate, the problem lies with the execution of them and what goes on behind the scenes. like i said earlier.....greed and ignorance! more so greed.

i don't have a link but i can do some digging around for standard fire/life safety requirements in TH.

Edited January 6, 2009 by AnthonyR1

[AnthonyR1]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold!

I'm sure that I got the same email as you Anthony, and the images are indeed horrific. It has affected me in the same way.

horrible is all i can say.

[UncleFrank]

The Thong Lor Police are investigating this incident, interviewing witnesses. Are they not possible suspects in this catastrophe?

Time to sit these owners, police chief, fire chief, building inspector down with a serious investigator and a lie detector.

If the new Prime Minister had any balls he would insist on an independent investigation.

[AnthonyR1]

Are they not possible suspects in this catastrophe?

spot on! you said a mouthful dude. this is the crux of it!

[mrtoad]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold!

I'm sure that I got the same email as you Anthony, and the images are indeed horrific. It has affected me in the same way.

horrible is all i can say.

I have seen those images, all I can say is that they are horrible, and having worked in Healthcare for most of my life they are some of most unpleasant things I have seen.

RIP for those victims, I hope those responsible rot in hel_l.

[meom]

In fact I believe that most of the posters here have been very sympathetic to those directly affected by the tragedy, and it is important that this is discussed in length so that we can keep this on the front pages. Hopefully, those lives lost will not be in vain, if there is a tightning up of the regulations and better enforcement.

One should hope so but on the other hand people are people and despite a clear absence of sprinklers, emergency lighting etc. people still frequent similar places and take their chances so I don't think much will change really.

[FatherF]

In fact I believe that most of the posters here have been very sympathetic to those directly affected by the tragedy, and it is important that this is discussed in length so that we can keep this on the front pages. Hopefully, those lives lost will not be in vain, if there is a tightning up of the regulations and better enforcement.

One should hope so but on the other hand people are people and despite a clear absence of sprinklers, emergency lighting etc. people still frequent similar places and take their chances so I don't think much will change really.

I fear you are quite correct in your assumptions. My condolences to the victims families and friends.

FF

[troy04]

Hi,

might it be possible to get those pics forwarded?

as a resident here and regular guest at thai pubs i am reading since hours and days those posts and like to know all details.

how can i send my email in privacy?

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold!

I'm sure that I got the same email as you Anthony, and the images are indeed horrific. It has affected me in the same way.

[TAWP]

Hi,

might it be possible to get those pics forwarded?

as a resident here and regular guest at thai pubs i am reading since hours and days those posts and like to know all details.

how can i send my email in privacy?

Just send a Private Message to the person you want to contact.

[mrtoad]

Hi,

might it be possible to get those pics forwarded?

as a resident here and regular guest at thai pubs i am reading since hours and days those posts and like to know all details.

how can i send my email in privacy?

Troy, I can honestly say those pictures are horiffic and saddening.

[cosmont]

For those who speak french, this is the testimony of a French victim's who saved his life from Santika tragedy :

David Bertay, photographe et réalisateur indépendant vivant à Bangkok est l'un des deux Français hospitalisés après le drame. Installé devant la scène où a eu lieu le spectacle pyrotechnique à l’origine du désastre, il est parvenu à s’extraire du piège infernal après avoir perdu connaissance dans la bousculade. Il a été brulé au 1er et 2e degré aux mains et à la tête, et porte de nombreux hématomes. Il nous raconte sa terrible expérience :

"Quelques minutes après nouvel an on a vu le plafond s’effondrer. En fait le feu s’est déclaré au plafond au milieu de la scène, juste là où moi et mes amis étions attablés. Au début, je n’ai pas du tout réalisé ce qu’il se passait. Je croyais que ça faisait partie du spectacle, jusqu’à ce qu’il y ait des cris, que ça prenne de l’ampleur et que l’on voie des morceaux de plafond commencer à tomber. Les gens commençaient alors à sortir un peu précipitamment mais ce n’était pas la panique générale. Jusqu’à ce moment je n’avais pas l’impression qu’on ne pourrait pas sortir. Puis il y a eu un moment (cela a dû durer entre 1 et 10 secondes) où il y a dû avoir un appel d’air ou quelque chose dans le genre et tout le plafond s’est embrasé. Entre le moment où tout ce plafond s’est embrasé et où la panique générale a gagné tout le monde, une fumée noire et épaisse a commencé à totalement envahir l’endroit, à le rendre quasiment noir. On ne voyait plus rien et en plus toute l’électricité a disjoncté. C'est-à-dire qu’on est passé d’un noir terrible à un noir absolu d’un seul coup."

"Je me suis vu mourir"

"A ce moment là c’était bouché de partout, les gens étaient enchevêtrés, à moitié tombés pour certains, essayant de se déplacer pour d’autres. J’ai perdu mes amis à partir du moment où le plafond s’est embrasé. Je me suis alors mis à essayer de marcher vers la sortie et je suis tombé au niveau de l’escalier qui n’a pas de barre de maintien. A ce moment là il n’y avait plus moyen de respirer. J’inhalais des fumées brûlantes et je me suis évanoui pendant un moment, je ne sais pas trop durant combien de temps. J’ai le souvenir de m’être protégé, de m’être mis en boule et puis de m’être réveillé peu après m’être évanoui pour me rendre compte que j’étais toujours là, toujours dans ce brasier. Ce qui est étrange c’est que pendant que j’étais évanoui je me suis mis à rêver que je n’étais plus dans cet enfer mais sorti de là et que tout allait bien. Et quand je me suis réveillé j’ai vite pris conscience que rien n’allait bien et que j’étais toujours là et que j’allais certainement crever là quoi. Et donc là, d’instinct, je me suis mis à ramper sans trop savoir où j’étais et où j’allais. C’est comme cela que je me suis brulé les mains d’ailleurs, en les posant sur du bois ou du métal en feu jusqu’à ce que quelqu’un me trouve et me tire par les bras pour me déposer à trois ou quatre mètres à l’extérieur de l’entrée.

A ce moment là, pendant 10 minutes j’ai soufflé comme un bœuf pour essayer de trouver de l’air sachant que chaque respiration me brulait.

Je me sens plus que chanceux, je me sens miraculé. Je me suis vraiment vu mourir."

[Jai Dee]

PM calls on investigation into Santika Pub fire to be closed fast

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has called for more urgency in the investigation into the Santika Pub fire which claimed over 50 lives on New Year's eve.

The prime minister spoke today (January 6th) about the Santika Pub fire, saying that he had called on committees established by the Ministry of Interior and Ministry of Justice to review the blaze to expedite their investigation into the blaze.

He also asked that the committees outline measures to ensuring such an incident will not take place again.

Source: National News Bureau of Thailand - 06 January 2009

[Jai Dee]

Lawyers Council to help relatives of Zantika's fire victims on free legal advices

The Lawyers Council has set up a committee to provide legal advices to Zantika Pub’s fire victims, while planning to file both civil and consumer lawsuits against the pub owners if found guilty.

Mr. Dechudom Krailit (เดชอุดม ไกรฤทธิ์), a Chairman of the Lawyers Council, revealed today that the Council had already set up a committee offering legal assistance to Zantika Pub’s fire victims. He added that Mr. Samak Chaowapanan, the Council’s Spokesman and Mr. Udom Suppasin, a Chairman of the Public Legal Assistance Department would be delegated in charge of this Committee.

Families and relatives of the victims must verify on their insufficient income status to their lawyers in order to be qualified for this free-of-charge service, however legal advices would be provided for relatives of the fire victims without any pre-conditions.

Thus far, the Council was informed that Zantika Pub could be held accountable for the incident due to the building structural design that failed to meet the safety standard, combined with its renovation scheme which was not even permitted by related authority. If such claim holds any truth, the council would attempt to file both civil and consumer lawsuits against the pub owners.

In the meantime, the investigation process on this matter is still underway.

Source: National News Bureau of Thailand - 06 January 2009

[Pseacraft]

A bit late but...

Dissolution - I have only been watching this thread because of your situation. I am very sorry for your tremendous loss. Reminds me of when I had to tell my parents that my bother had died, even though we weren't close the void is huge.

May your brother and friends, your families and you find peace.

E.

[AnthonyR1]

jai dee, the updates are appreciated but we all know it's hollow BS.

[Johpa]

What a terrible tragedy, although not surprising. While the club owners are culpable the real blame lies with the Thai govt. This tragedy is the product of weak institutions, judiciary, law enforcement etc. A British survivor stated that "laws should be written to protect the people". In fact building and fire codes do exist but as anyone who has spent more that a month in Thailand knows, there is only cursory inspection for the sake of show, while any serious infraction is simply used as a means for the local police to farm funds. Sorry to say that until Thais develop a critical voice, demand transparency/accountability from their govt. these tragedies will continue. One exit, no working sprinkler system and indoor fireworks! As you all are equally aware Thailand in a country of vast resources that paints itself as a third world state. Maybe if the thousands traipsing around in yellow would do a bit of reading they would discover that their nation is the 8th largest exporter of agricultural goods on the planet (read, exceptionally wealthy!) This wealth being controlled by a relative few families. The point being its time for Thailand to stop reveling in false idolatry, pomp and ceremony and demand functional institutions. This all could have so easily been prevented! Heart felt sorrow and condolences to all who have suffered so needlessly.

But is it not part of the definition of a "third world" banana style republic that the nation's wealth is concentrated in the hands of a few families? But your main point is spot on and surprisingly perceptive for a first posting. Welcome, but do tread with caution and continue to choose your words wisely.

[Old Man River]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold! i've been in the construction business for most of my working life and the last 7+ years in thailand, i know exactly how easy it is to increase fire safety in public places and know even better how the costs and time required to do so is met with pure ignorance and greed!

again my deepest condolences to all the friends and families of those who so pointlessly lost their lives. i hope that punishment is appropriate but i have seen this before, i'm saddened to say that i'm doubtful that ALL guilty parties will be punished.

If you have a link to the fire safety codes it will be useful to know at least what can be expected when we or our families walk into a building in Bangkok. Authorities in newspaper articles all say how the Santika wasn't up to codes. Probably not as it sounds like a newer building, but a link on e-Thailand that I found indicates that buildings constructed prior to 1992 don't have to comply with current fire safety codes, whatever they are.

Since you are now in Thailand in the construction business, does the BMA ever make safety inspections? Given that the police were trying in the courts to close Santika down, I would have thought that this would have been high on the list of buildings to inspect.

inspections here are....how shall i put it....easy to get around. it's a sad fact. this is not news to most of you though. we all know the score.

what was 'trying' to be done in the courts and what was 'actually' done can be two different things.

the regulations here are more than adequate, the problem lies with the execution of them and what goes on behind the scenes. like i said earlier.....greed and ignorance! more so greed.

i don't have a link but i can do some digging around for standard fire/life safety requirements in TH.

I have lived here long enough to know the score, but I am surprised that after knowing the police (of all people) were actively trying to close this place down that the BMA didn't look at this one.

[AnthonyR1]

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold! i've been in the construction business for most of my working life and the last 7+ years in thailand, i know exactly how easy it is to increase fire safety in public places and know even better how the costs and time required to do so is met with pure ignorance and greed!

again my deepest condolences to all the friends and families of those who so pointlessly lost their lives. i hope that punishment is appropriate but i have seen this before, i'm saddened to say that i'm doubtful that ALL guilty parties will be punished.

If you have a link to the fire safety codes it will be useful to know at least what can be expected when we or our families walk into a building in Bangkok. Authorities in newspaper articles all say how the Santika wasn't up to codes. Probably not as it sounds like a newer building, but a link on e-Thailand that I found indicates that buildings constructed prior to 1992 don't have to comply with current fire safety codes, whatever they are.

Since you are now in Thailand in the construction business, does the BMA ever make safety inspections? Given that the police were trying in the courts to close Santika down, I would have thought that this would have been high on the list of buildings to inspect.

inspections here are....how shall i put it....easy to get around. it's a sad fact. this is not news to most of you though. we all know the score.

what was 'trying' to be done in the courts and what was 'actually' done can be two different things.

the regulations here are more than adequate, the problem lies with the execution of them and what goes on behind the scenes. like i said earlier.....greed and ignorance! more so greed.

i don't have a link but i can do some digging around for standard fire/life safety requirements in TH.

I have lived here long enough to know the score, but I am surprised that after knowing the police (of all people) were actively trying to close this place down that the BMA didn't look at this one.

c'mon....i mean no offense but this is thong lor we're talking about. we all know the sh1t that goes on around there. as a point of interest....i was told that thong lor and ekkamai were zoned for restaurant, no night clubs to be allowed. money talks!

[AnthonyR1]

Hi,

might it be possible to get those pics forwarded?

as a resident here and regular guest at thai pubs i am reading since hours and days those posts and like to know all details.

how can i send my email in privacy?

i received some very disturbing images of the aftermath at the club. i will not post them out of respect for readers who have lost loved ones and family members...the reason i bring it up however is that it has fueled my anger 10 fold!

I'm sure that I got the same email as you Anthony, and the images are indeed horrific. It has affected me in the same way.

i'm sorry, i won't be forwarding these images to anyone. please understand.

[onethailand]

c'mon....i mean no offense but this is thong lor we're talking about. we all know the sh1t that goes on around there. as a point of interest....i was told that thong lor and ekkamai were zoned for restaurant, no night clubs to be allowed. money talks!

And who told you that, and how long have you been here? Do you know how long clubs have been in Ekamai and Thonglor?

Thonglor police did NOT give permission to Santika to be licensed as a club. This is what Old Man River has been saying. Santika's operating license was given as a "night time eating spot" - which essentially gave it permission to operate until midnight. It's the same license given to the street-side vendors a bit further down the street which cause traffic jams because some hi-so and his gik decided they were hungry and parked right in front, blocking one lane.

[AnthonyR1]

c'mon....i mean no offense but this is thong lor we're talking about. we all know the sh1t that goes on around there. as a point of interest....i was told that thong lor and ekkamai were zoned for restaurant, no night clubs to be allowed. money talks!

And who told you that, and how long have you been here? Do you know how long clubs have been in Ekamai and Thonglor?

Thonglor police did NOT give permission to Santika to be licensed as a club. This is what Old Man River has been saying. Santika's operating license was given as a "night time eating spot" - which essentially gave it permission to operate until midnight. It's the same license given to the street-side vendors a bit further down the street which cause traffic jams because some hi-so and his gik decided they were hungry and parked right in front, blocking one lane.

probably a hel_l of a lot longer than you. i've also worked on 4 clubs in that area AND fit out more than 11 royal thai police offices through out thailand. sell you crap elsewhere! this is greed pure and simple. i deal with it 1st hand.

[onethailand]

c'mon....i mean no offense but this is thong lor we're talking about. we all know the sh1t that goes on around there. as a point of interest....i was told that thong lor and ekkamai were zoned for restaurant, no night clubs to be allowed. money talks!

And who told you that, and how long have you been here? Do you know how long clubs have been in Ekamai and Thonglor?

Thonglor police did NOT give permission to Santika to be licensed as a club. This is what Old Man River has been saying. Santika's operating license was given as a "night time eating spot" - which essentially gave it permission to operate until midnight. It's the same license given to the street-side vendors a bit further down the street which cause traffic jams because some hi-so and his gik decided they were hungry and parked right in front, blocking one lane.

probably a hel_l of a lot longer than you. i've also worked on 4 clubs in that area AND fit out more than 11 royal thai police offices through out thailand. sell you crap elsewhere! this is greed pure and simple. i deal with it 1st hand.

Good answer mate. You haven't answered a thing, nor do you have any clue what you're talking about. Since you've worked on 4 clubs in the area, perhaps you care to elaborate on the fire safety precautions that were planned for during construction?

[AnthonyR1]

c'mon....i mean no offense but this is thong lor we're talking about. we all know the sh1t that goes on around there. as a point of interest....i was told that thong lor and ekkamai were zoned for restaurant, no night clubs to be allowed. money talks!

And who told you that, and how long have you been here? Do you know how long clubs have been in Ekamai and Thonglor?

Thonglor police did NOT give permission to Santika to be licensed as a club. This is what Old Man River has been saying. Santika's operating license was given as a "night time eating spot" - which essentially gave it permission to operate until midnight. It's the same license given to the street-side vendors a bit further down the street which cause traffic jams because some hi-so and his gik decided they were hungry and parked right in front, blocking one lane.

probably a hel_l of a lot longer than you. i've also worked on 4 clubs in that area AND fit out more than 11 royal thai police offices through out thailand. sell you crap elsewhere! this is greed pure and simple. i deal with it 1st hand.

Good answer mate. You haven't answered a thing, nor do you have any clue what you're talking about. Since you've worked on 4 clubs in the area, perhaps you care to elaborate on the fire safety precautions that were planned for during construction?

i can tell you this; fire/life would of been a huge issue but like most inspections and regulations it was dealt with in manner that, if you were a relative of someone who lost their lives there you would be out for blood right now. believe me i've been privy to these situations

[onethailand]

No one begrudges the rights of families to claim compensation for the lives of the loved ones they lost in this tragedy.

That is not the issue at hand, however - you claimed that zoning regulations do not permit clubs to be located in Thonglor or Ekamai. However, these zoning regulations took effect in Dec 2003, by which time Santika's owners had already filed an application under the previous regulations which did not restrict the location of entertainment businesses other than a minimum requirement to be a certain distance away from temples, schools, hospitals, youth clubs, dormitories or communities.

These new zoning regulations were the result of an overzealous Interior Minister under the Thaksin I government, Purachai Piemsomboon - who conveniently overlooked a few other entertainment areas outside the officially sanctioned zones of Silom, RCA and Ratchadaphisek.

Edited January 6, 2009 by onethailand

[AnthonyR1]

No one begrudges the rights of families to claim compensation for the lives of the loved ones they lost in this tragedy.

That is not the issue at hand, however - you claimed that zoning regulations do not permit clubs to be located in Thonglor or Ekamai. However, these zoning regulations took effect in Dec 2003, by which time Santika's owners had already filed an application under the previous regulations which did not restrict the location of entertainment businesses other than a minimum requirement to be a certain distance away from temples, schools, hospitals, youth clubs, dormitories or communities.

These new zoning regulations were the result of an overzealous Interior Minister under the Thaksin I government, Purachai Piemsomboon - who conveniently overlooked a few other entertainment areas outside the officially sanctioned zones of Silom, RCA and Ratchadaphisek.

ok, and i'm not being a pric& but help me understand the situation as you described it.

the owners had applied for licensing previous to the regulations of 2003? the older regulations did not restrict them from opening an entertainment based business? so you're saying the premises was inspected and renovated on a non entertainment criteria? is this correct? again i'm not being a pric& or sarcastic, just want to make sure i understand your point.

the old regulations allowed for inadequate emergency exits then? inadequate or non existent fire prevention?

my point about the area not being zoned for this type of business was to show that it's all about getting past regulations at whatever cost. and in this case the cost is pretty high.