Uk State Pensions For Expats

[rott]

Rinrada, what kind of changes are expected in 2010-2012? From the tone of your earlier comment they are not expected to be beneficial.

Regards

Rott

[Tyke]

Some time back I read a thread regarding the uk state pension. I understand that anyone living in Thailand would not qualify for any yearly increases.

The case ,I believe ,was heard and lost in the european courts.

Is there any appeal ongoing and how can I get more information regarding this case?

Thanks in advance.4.Real

Just search for the story on thaivisa. Previously the case was lost in the House of Lords and apparently the ruling will never be changed. When living abroad, your pension remains the same as the day you left the UK and NEVER increases.

What about if there is a gap between leaving the UK and starting the state pension as with me - isn't the pension fixed from the date you start it rather than when you left the UK, which might be many years before?

[coventry]

The UK Tax Office say that if 'you're in the UK for more than 183 day you're resident for that tax year'. Which clearly means you're not resident, if you live abroad for 183 days. So why does the Tax Office deduct tax when I'm not resident in the UK ? If I am classed as resident due to my paying tax, why is my pension frozen because the DSS class me as non resident. Confused.

[coventry]

The big problem I see is that will the UK taxpayers be able to afford to pay my pension?

UK tax payers don't pay your State Pension. It's financed through NI contributions and isn't supported by tax payers. 2 seperate things.

[Lite Beer]

Some time back I read a thread regarding the uk state pension. I understand that anyone living in Thailand would not qualify for any yearly increases.

The case ,I believe ,was heard and lost in the european courts.

Is there any appeal ongoing and how can I get more information regarding this case?

Thanks in advance.4.Real

Just search for the story on thaivisa. Previously the case was lost in the House of Lords and apparently the ruling will never be changed. When living abroad, your pension remains the same as the day you left the UK and NEVER increases.

What about if there is a gap between leaving the UK and starting the state pension as with me - isn't the pension fixed from the date you start it rather than when you left the UK, which might be many years before?

It will be frozen from the day you start to recieve it.

[coventry]

It will be frozen from the day you start to recieve it.

Have you got a source for that Lite Beer ? I've been on the Government site and my understanding is that it's frozen 6 months( 183 days ) from the day you leave. You have to have left the UK 183 days to be classed as non resident.

[James53]

The UK Tax Office say that if 'you're in the UK for more than 183 day you're resident for that tax year'. Which clearly means you're not resident, if you live abroad for 183 days. So why does the Tax Office deduct tax when I'm not resident in the UK ? If I am classed as resident due to my paying tax, why is my pension frozen because the DSS class me as non resident. Confused.

Surely you are not resident for tax purposes if you elect to be and meet the conditions. Nothing wrong with you being out of the country and remaining resident for tax purposes.

[endure]

The big problem I see is that will the UK taxpayers be able to afford to pay my pension?

UK tax payers don't pay your State Pension. It's financed through NI contributions and isn't supported by tax payers. 2 seperate things.

UK pensions are financed through the taxation system. Although it's a nice label there's no such thing as a separate pot of money called 'National Insurance'.

[endure]

The UK Tax Office say that if 'you're in the UK for more than 183 day you're resident for that tax year'. Which clearly means you're not resident, if you live abroad for 183 days. So why does the Tax Office deduct tax when I'm not resident in the UK ? If I am classed as resident due to my paying tax, why is my pension frozen because the DSS class me as non resident. Confused.

It doesn't matter whether you're resident or non-resident - any income generated in the UK is taxable.

[JetsetBkk]

The UK Tax Office say that if 'you're in the UK for more than 183 day you're resident for that tax year'. Which clearly means you're not resident, if you live abroad for 183 days. So why does the Tax Office deduct tax when I'm not resident in the UK ? If I am classed as resident due to my paying tax, why is my pension frozen because the DSS class me as non resident. Confused.

It doesn't matter whether you're resident or non-resident - any income generated in the UK is taxable.

If you complete form R85 you can get interest paid to you without tax taken off. This is useful if you are unlikely to have income over your annual limit.

So instead of claiming back the tax every year, you only have to declare it when your income goes over your annual limit, e.g. about 6,000 GBP for a single person.

[Rinrada]

Rinrada, what kind of changes are expected in 2010-2012? From the tone of your earlier comment they are not expected to be beneficial.

Regards

Rott

Rott...sorry for delayed response ref above....been digging out of my igloo and thinkinging of a micro lite journey to work...but nowhere to land in Islington......dogs and sledge could be good.

anyway my comments were ref.the changes coming in starting 2012 specifically relating to the the Govs plan to re introduce the earnings link that was removed by the old Bag woman about 20 years ago....

We have the lowest benefits in Europe but things will change......wish we could join the E...another post...

Bit of Info.

Basic State Pension

Basic State Pension is the retirement income you can claim once you have reached State Pension age if you have paid or been treated as having paid sufficient National Insurance contributions, or received credits during your working life.

Key changes to basic State Pension include:

reducing the number of qualifying years needed for a full basic State Pension to 30 for people who will reach State Pension age on or after 6 April 2010

any number of qualifying years will give entitlement to at least some basic State Pension

people who have fewer than 30 qualifying years will get 1/30 of full basic State Pension for each qualifying year they have both paid and credited National Insurance contributions will count towards basic State Pension in the same way

replacing the system of Home Responsibilities Protection (HRP) with a new weekly National Insurance credit for people caring for children or severely disabled people and converting past years of Home Responsibilities Protection into years of credits.

increasing basic State Pension in line with earnings, rather than prices, which means it should rise more quickly each year than it does now.

(This change will happen from 2012 at the earliest and by 2015 at the latest, and will also apply to people currently getting their state pension or who reach State Pension age before 6 April 2010)

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/pensions-reform/act.asp

[endure]

The UK Tax Office say that if 'you're in the UK for more than 183 day you're resident for that tax year'. Which clearly means you're not resident, if you live abroad for 183 days. So why does the Tax Office deduct tax when I'm not resident in the UK ? If I am classed as resident due to my paying tax, why is my pension frozen because the DSS class me as non resident. Confused.

It doesn't matter whether you're resident or non-resident - any income generated in the UK is taxable.

If you complete form R85 you can get interest paid to you without tax taken off. This is useful if you are unlikely to have income over your annual limit.

So instead of claiming back the tax every year, you only have to declare it when your income goes over your annual limit, e.g. about 6,000 GBP for a single person.

Or ~9000gbp? if you're over 65.

[coventry]

UK pensions are financed through the taxation system. Although it's a nice label there's no such thing as a separate pot of money called 'National Insurance'.

According to what I've been reading, pensions are financed through 'National Insurance' contributions only. Taxation is totally seperate. You can pay tax all your life, but if you haven't paid or been credited with NI contributions you wont get a 'State Pension'.

[sumrit]

UK pensions are financed through the taxation system. Although it's a nice label there's no such thing as a separate pot of money called 'National Insurance'.

According to what I've been reading, pensions are financed through 'National Insurance' contributions only. Taxation is totally seperate. You can pay tax all your life, but if you haven't paid or been credited with NI contributions you wont get a 'State Pension'.

You qualify for a state pension with your NI contributions (and the amount of pension you get is determined by the number of years worth of NI contributions you have made) but your actual pension payments are paid from general taxation, not from NI contributions collected. All NI contributions are added to to 'general taxation' pot.

[JetsetBkk]

If you complete form R85 you can get interest paid to you without tax taken off. This is useful if you are unlikely to have income over your annual limit.

So instead of claiming back the tax every year, you only have to declare it when your income goes over your annual limit, e.g. about 6,000 GBP for a single person.

Or ~9000gbp? if you're over 65.

Really? Ooh, that's nice! A few years to wait yet, though.

[triffid]

I have just reached 65.

A few months ago I 'crystallized' a small occupational pension - tax free cash sum & an annuity; that annuity is paid after deduction of 20%.

I have been in Thailand on a retirement visa for the last 2/3 years; before that I lived in France.

I have a small flat in France where I have been spending part of each year since I came to live in Thaialnd.

1.

I'd like to now claim my UK state pension, but I also want to pay up as many unpaid years' NI as permissible. (Over the years I reckon contributions for some 10-12 years, maybe a few more, have been paid.)

I'd be most grateful to know the address (or email) to which I can write about this. I gather that I must do this before April 2009 to be able to pay for years 1997-2002 in addition to the last six. (I assume that if I write my initial letter now, before April, I'll be OK with that deadline even if the matter is slow in going through the pipeline.)

I toyed with the suggestion that I could claim as from my France address so as to get the inflation increases, but given the small amounts involved it's surely not worth risking/complicating it.

2.

I'd like to stop the 20% deduction on my annuity by claiming a personal tax allowance - because I have no other income (nor assets) in the UK and the annuity is barely £10,000 a year. I don't know if I'm entitled to a refund for past months' deductions if/when the tax position is resolved in my favour.

I'd be most grateful if someone can give me the address (or email) to which I can write about this.

I'm sure the answers to my questions are somewhere in the threads. But these are lengthy and often - to me - hard to tap for my simple purposes. If one of the - many - people who are knowledgeable on this would help me out I really would be most grateful

Edited February 17, 2009 by triffid

[patklang]

When living abroad, your pension remains the same as the day you left the UK and NEVER increases.

I believe the above is incorrect - or at least incomplete and therefore misleading................

"your pension will be frozen at the level it's at when you're 65 if you're living in Thailand at the time, or at the time you move abroad if that's after you're 65"

( from Post #2 at: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Uk-Pension-N...pension+British )

OP and others might like to make a note of the following links to help follow progress (or non-progress): http://www.pension-parity-uk.com/

An (Australia-oriented) onward link from that one is also worth going to directly: http://www.britishpensions.org.au/

http://www.britishexpat.com/Pensions-Campa...Pens.271.0.html

steve,

you are right,and the other guy is wrong

[JetsetBkk]

triffid, here's a good place to start:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-leave-uk.htm

[a99az]

Should of got a job with Royal Bank of Scotland they have great pension plan

[macduff]

Should of got a job with Royal Bank of Scotland they have great pension plan

They certainly know how to live off the backs of others

[briley]

You are eligible for the increase for any period you spend back in the UK, There is no waiting period.

Basically you tell them a couple of weeks in advance of your proposed visit advising them of you anticipated arrival and departure dates, and also provide them with an address and telephone number in the UK where they can contact you.

Once back in Thailand, your pension reverts to the original frozen rate.

If you stay in the UK for 6 months then return to Thailand you lock yourself at the new, higher, rate.

[rixalex]

You are eligible for the increase for any period you spend back in the UK, There is no waiting period.

Basically you tell them a couple of weeks in advance of your proposed visit advising them of you anticipated arrival and departure dates, and also provide them with an address and telephone number in the UK where they can contact you.

Once back in Thailand, your pension reverts to the original frozen rate.

If you stay in the UK for 6 months then return to Thailand you lock yourself at the new, higher, rate.

I believe that's true. But then at that stage in one's life, would you be wanting to spend six months somewhere you don't want to be - and all for the sake of a few quid. Unless that sort of money is really going to make a difference to your life, i'd say forget about it and concentrate on making the most of your time.

[JetsetBkk]

You are eligible for the increase for any period you spend back in the UK, There is no waiting period.

Basically you tell them a couple of weeks in advance of your proposed visit advising them of you anticipated arrival and departure dates, and also provide them with an address and telephone number in the UK where they can contact you.

Once back in Thailand, your pension reverts to the original frozen rate.

If you stay in the UK for 6 months then return to Thailand you lock yourself at the new, higher, rate.

I believe that's true. But then at that stage in one's life, would you be wanting to spend six months somewhere you don't want to be - and all for the sake of a few quid. Unless that sort of money is really going to make a difference to your life, i'd say forget about it and concentrate on making the most of your time.

I didn't think that was true. I hope someone can give a link to confirm/refute.

Sounds like you have to become a UK resident (for tax purposes) again (more than 183 days in the UK) to get the permanent (if true) uprating.

Even if it were true, I'm not sure I would do it - 6 months in the UK would take 10 years off my life.

[thaimate]

You are eligible for the increase for any period you spend back in the UK, There is no waiting period.

Basically you tell them a couple of weeks in advance of your proposed visit advising them of you anticipated arrival and departure dates, and also provide them with an address and telephone number in the UK where they can contact you.

Once back in Thailand, your pension reverts to the original frozen rate.

If you stay in the UK for 6 months then return to Thailand you lock yourself at the new, higher, rate.

I believe that's true. But then at that stage in one's life, would you be wanting to spend six months somewhere you don't want to be - and all for the sake of a few quid. Unless that sort of money is really going to make a difference to your life, i'd say forget about it and concentrate on making the most of your time.

I didn't think that was true. I hope someone can give a link to confirm/refute.

Sounds like you have to become a UK resident (for tax purposes) again (more than 183 days in the UK) to get the permanent (if true) uprating.

Even if it were true, I'm not sure I would do it - 6 months in the UK would take 10 years off my life.

i just spent 3 weeks there and came back an old man

[prakhonchai nick]

The UK Tax Office say that if 'you're in the UK for more than 183 day you're resident for that tax year'. Which clearly means you're not resident, if you live abroad for 183 days. So why does the Tax Office deduct tax when I'm not resident in the UK ? If I am classed as resident due to my paying tax, why is my pension frozen because the DSS class me as non resident. Confused.

It doesn't matter whether you're resident or non-resident - any income generated in the UK is taxable.

If you complete form R85 you can get interest paid to you without tax taken off. This is useful if you are unlikely to have income over your annual limit.

So instead of claiming back the tax every year, you only have to declare it when your income goes over your annual limit, e.g. about 6,000 GBP for a single person.

Or ~9000gbp? if you're over 65.

Actually the tax free allowance of £9000+ is available for the entire tax year in which you reach age 65. So if your birthday is for example 4th April. you would enjoy the higher allowance for the full year before you reach 65.

BUT YOU HAVE TO CLAIM IT!!! They won't be doing it automatically

[bungy007]

You will not know what your pension will be when you retire, but a pension forecast will tell you what would be your entitlement if you were 65 today.

Apply for a pension forecast!!

I've been living out here in Asia for the last 17 years. I imagine my forecast will be pretty bleak and would inform me that I'd get the square root of jack all

[RubbaJohnny]

Forecast come from

Long Benton N U Tyne

google the postcode

they have a useless website

which you need apassword mine arrived 18 months after I appllied and says the PIN code word expires in 30 days

Basically its 90 quid if you ve paid 30/44 yrs as a male

Mr cunning fox correctly says they pop round to your daughters in Tooting

Less chance at PO Box in Latvia?

[dragonfly94]

Forecast come from

Long Benton N U Tyne

google the postcode

they have a useless website

which you need apassword mine arrived 18 months after I appllied and says the PIN code word expires in 30 days

Basically its 90 quid if you ve paid 30/44 yrs as a male

Mr cunning fox correctly says they pop round to your daughters in Tooting

Less chance at PO Box in Latvia?

Don't know about Latvia, but I'd like to know how to go about getting an accommodation address in the Philppines without actually having to go there. How crazy that you get the increase there, but not in OZ.

[davidkas]

Some time back I read a thread regarding the uk state pension. I understand that anyone living in Thailand would not qualify for any yearly increases.

The case ,I believe ,was heard and lost in the european courts.

Is there any appeal ongoing and how can I get more information regarding this case?

Thanks in advance.4.Real

Hi All, Here is link to the Goverments own website where you can make electronic petitions, this one is to give expat pensioners the same increase in state pension as those living in the UK.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/pension-robbery/

Please sign up and pass the word to anyone you might know, in any country, any age who might/has retired overseas. Also try friends and family who might support our cause

Regards David

[gennisis]

Forecast come from

Long Benton N U Tyne

google the postcode

they have a useless website

which you need apassword mine arrived 18 months after I appllied and says the PIN code word expires in 30 days

Basically its 90 quid if you ve paid 30/44 yrs as a male

Mr cunning fox correctly says they pop round to your daughters in Tooting

Less chance at PO Box in Latvia?

Don't know about Latvia, but I'd like to know how to go about getting an accommodation address in the Philppines without actually having to go there. How crazy that you get the increase there, but not in OZ.

NOT...that I would suggest it,But find a 'pen pal' who,doing nothing illegal in the Phillipines,can provide you with a 'post box .and forward any mail.....I am surprised that no Fillipino does'nt offer this survice to UK expats