Financial Crisis

[AlexLah]

Looking at a good movie with some very interesting historical footage. You can find it here: http://www.informationliberation.com/

or google for "The New American Century" Shows that indeed time and time again we are brainwashed by governments with a plan.

It is totally insane that gamblers made bets, they lost and other people have to pay so they can make more bets.

And then someone is saying he sees nothing wrong with this world, yes yes I know, not for you alone.

Now if we would finaly find those missing Trillions they announced were missing in September 10 2001 that would help a lot.........

[12DrinkMore]

This is now going to start the pain.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle5844672.ece

The cost of an average basket of 24 staple items in the supermarket was 17 per cent higher last month than in February 2007, a separate survey by mysupermarket, the price comparison website, showed recently.

So, for all the necessary food items to keep the population alive the rate of inflation is now around 8% over the last two years. This has to increase even further due to the GBP falling.

Does that <deleted> "I wanna save the universe" Brown really think that people are interested in borrowing money to buy houses when they won't be able to afford to put food on their tables?

[jcon]

Jesus.... Plalex are we now going to go over 9/11 conspiracy theories again?!?!!??! arrrghhhhhhhhhhh

[midas]

1. i agree but we have heard negative opinions from different sides in the meantime ad nauseam and repeating them does not make them necessarily come true. i also agree that too much optimism is not warranted because the news which are presented by the media on a daily basis are extremely bad, in fact the trend is from bad to worse. the reason why i am against too much pessimism are stated hereafter:

But is't one of the purposes of this thread to provide an opportunity for TV members to exchange all ideas and points of view without censorship?

2. there are a lot of things which distinguish me from many others, not only in this thread. one is that never look back at rough times (through which i went not once but dozens of times) thinking "IF ONLY!". although i am not an optimist i abhor extreme pessimism especially when combined with resignation. my view is that success in life is based on prevailing circumstances, luck, hard work and being convinced "yes i can do it" even when overwhelming problems are threatening. moreover, my background (physics and engineering) always meant dealing with facts but also calculated risks based on rational conclusions. the various gloom&doom scenarios are in my view not based on rational conclusions. although it is a fact that i might die tonight, tomorrow or in a week i don't take this fact into consideration except for the usual preparations establishing certain protective measures for loved ones.

As Alex Lah has said correctly , something doesn't feel right and this is one of the few places one can analyse and share views about these problems and you are unjustifiably and unfairly proposing to limit the scope of these discussions just because they dont happen to coincide with your value system

presently we are still not dealing with calculable facts which might turn the world as we know it upside down. arguments "there will be a war" i consider as silly and that goes for others too like warlords will divide the planet and rule their fiefdoms, utter lawlessness will prevail and nothing except the "real thing" will have any value.

and yes! i never felt that there is something wrong with the world as far as i am personally concerned. the simple reason is that at any stage in my life i looked back to where i came from, compared my status with that of my peers and concluded "there's nothing wrong with this world, it has treated me well".

No Sir - There is most certainly something very wrong with the world today when we have the likes of Bernard Madoff, Alan Sandford ripping off their friends, bankers receiving obscene bonuses after participating in corporate failure, corporations and banks flagrantly wasting taxpayers money on million dollar parties. We have people like Robert Mugabe Presiding over the genocide of a country while the world sits by and does nothing- and the list goes on........................... And you say there is nothing wrong with the world. What happened to morals and trust ?

Edited March 4, 2009 by midas

[Merangue]

my posting was meant in a different way. there is nothing anyone of us can do to prevent that nuclear technology in Pakistan falls into wrong hands and none of us is able to change the situation in Mexico. sorry for not being clear. as for other measures "we" is the wrong personal pronoun. a lot of "us" do not have the means to "prepare for different scenarios". you can only speak for yourself. and when the last gold ingot is spent and the last bullet fired those who owned gold and ammunition have to fight with teeth and claws IF it should be required.

I see & I agree that for things as you describe with Pakistan or any Nuke threat there is not much to be done. As for the *we* I again disagree ( respectfully ) I believe everyone of any means can n fact prepare in their own way.

there is an old american acquaintance of mine living in the south. he was one of my lecturers when i did some time at MIT Boston, Mass. at age 76 he is drawing a pension an social insurance totalling ~2,200 dollars which he spends all (partly because of high medical cost). three divorces and three exes left him with nothing else. another case in Pattaya is worse. german, drawing 835 EURos social insurance, no savings, acting as taxidriver whenever there is an opportunity. what would be "their means to prepare in their own way"?

Well i would think an american living in Thailand on a mere 77000 baht per month would have a half decent lifestyle.

A German living on roughly 35000 baht a month is not rich but he is hardly starving either.

Admitted it would be nice for them to be receiving 150000 per week but not many of those in the world have that kind of money or lifestyle on retirement.

They can prepare in the same way everyone else can. Being prudent with what they have and possibly looking at returning home if things get truly bad. There is no reason this 76 year old American HAS to live in Thailand is there? I am sure he would be allowed to live in AMerica if he tried and there are plenty of Americans on less funding.

The German living in Pattaya could move away from the fleshpots and live very well on 35k a month in a cheaper area. If it is so bad for him ( Re 'even Worse') why does he not leave?

Try being a Thai living on 15-20k a month ..... They live relatively well in comparison to some groups in the world. It is all relative.

[AlexLah]

Jesus.... Plalex are we now going to go over 9/11 conspiracy theories again?!?!!??! arrrghhhhhhhhhhh

J The Con man

I know there is a bit of coverage of 9/11 in that film but that is not why this film is interesting, give it a try, actually mainly historical facts are presented.

And I fully agree with you Midas, Naam has not started this thread and is not a moderator and as long as we not violate forum rules we have the full right to discuss and or debate things related to this so called financial crisis. Naam is just at times stating his at times psycopathic selfish viewpoints of his way of life.

(No pun intended, just an observation)

Edit: I remember mentioning here that soon the price of food would get higher in UK and soon the world and I think it was my response to that new food promotion to get rid of obesity. You will see it wil only get worse as people will move to have their meals at KFC/McDonalds.

Edited March 4, 2009 by AlexLah

[AlexLah]

People are angry and ready to riot, enough is enough.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...n.html?ITO=1490

But there will not be enough yet, we need millions and millions of people more in order to bring down "The Elite"

[colibra]

Jesus.... Plalex are we now going to go over 9/11 conspiracy theories again?!?!!??! arrrghhhhhhhhhhh

Yah, I thought we settled that. Everyone now knows it was an inside job. Phase two, crash the world economy is well underway. Phase 3 soon to begin....depopulation.

What will it be war, disease or famine. Any guesses. I personally vote for disease as it leaves the infrastructure intact.

[AlexLah]

And that is the whole problem Naam, there are too many people that think the same like you. They do not care about others, only think about themselves. It are people with such mindset that got us into this mess.

no Alex, the problem is with people like you who consider themselves passionate, use big words but lack action. once you have paid for living cost and schooling of 17 young orphans over a period of 26 years, as my wife and i did (again this summer 2 will graduate and the number will increase to 19) you are allowed to come back and accuse me of not being compassionate.

thanks for not believing me

I would like to know the fact to back up your underlined statement.

Same as you mentioning you are/have been a scientist/engineer does not mean anything, unless you can state/show some facts that you personally have contributed as a scientist/engineer to make this world a better place. And I do not mean sponsoring some kids.

[tijnebijn]

Wacko jacko

[AlexLah]

Tijn I have never seen ya reply in here, what made ya do it?

[tijnebijn]

Saw jacko in the link you provided .

And thought it was a appropriate post of mine to stay on topic for once ....

[AlexLah]

Huh?

Can you please eleborate?

[tijnebijn]

Have a better look , the celebrity gossip on your last link .....

Don't know if he's going to follow those rioters though ....

Anyway all this financial mess has had and is having alot of facelifts currently ( stimulus packages ) ,

and don't hope it turns out to look like Jacko's face , which probably is already .

So aren't I on topic right ?

Edited March 4, 2009 by tijnebijn

[lannarebirth]

I feel very pleased to be able to think outside the box because when things do breakdown as they must do eventually-at least I will be more mentally prepared than those who continue to live in denial.

but all your mental preparation will not elevate you to a different level Midas. besides mental preparation there is not much what you can do anyway.

I do not agree....... I believe there is a little or a lot we can do to prepare for various scenarios.

If things go bad or I should say really bad....Then it is up to the individuals for a large part of how you continue. I am not saying a full breakdown of society but even a general disorder will require individual preparedness to take care of ones self.

I know in my own way I have been moving towards that more & more.

I think it was LB? ...not sure ...that posted in this or another thread just today or yesterday saying how in reality the world has been broken for some time & we now are starting to see the results. I agree with that.

Yes, that was me flying, but I wasn't making a moralistic judgement. Strictly an economic one based on rates of credit expansion and leverage leading to asset appreciation which failed to account for the underlying risk inherent in all asset ownership.

[lannarebirth]

And that is the whole problem Naam, there are too many people that think the same like you. They do not care about others, only think about themselves. It are people with such mindset that got us into this mess.

no Alex, the problem is with people like you who consider themselves passionate, use big words but lack action. once you have paid for living cost and schooling of 17 young orphans over a period of 26 years, as my wife and i did (again this summer 2 will graduate and the number will increase to 19) you are allowed to come back and accuse me of not being compassionate.

thanks for not believing me

I would like to know the fact to back up your underlined statement.

Same as you mentioning you are/have been a scientist/engineer does not mean anything, unless you can state/show some facts that you personally have contributed as a scientist/engineer to make this world a better place. And I do not mean sponsoring some kids.

That's a little uncalled for isn't it Alex? C'mon.

This thread I believe was started to educate people about the ongoing financial crisis and hopefully use that information to better take care of themselves and their loved ones. You don't appear to have a grasp of the economic underpinnings of this debacle, so instead you choose to post your wacky theories. I've got some of my own, but sharing them would not serve the people reading this thread looking for valid information with wjich they can make better decisions. Why not start a new "Conspiracy" thread? I'll stop by and give you some to chew on.

[lannarebirth]

Nice to see the market up for a change, but if they don't address this CDS issue, it won't run for very long:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/

[Chaimai]

This thread I believe was started to educate people about the ongoing financial crisis and hopefully use that information to better take care of themselves and their loved ones. You don't appear to have a grasp of the economic underpinnings of this debacle, so instead you choose to post your wacky theories. I've got some of my own, but sharing them would not serve the people reading this thread looking for valid information with wjich they can make better decisions. Why not start a new "Conspiracy" thread? I'll stop by and give you some to chew on.

No, if I recall correctly it was started by 12Drinkmore to - understandably - venthis spleen against the idiots who have got us into this mess.

Now it has been hijacked by people like Alexlahlah who just want to promote their "the sky is falling in and and there will be world-wide rioting in the streets" postulations.

The thread is dead. Some have now stooped to personal insults which is out of order.

[Naam]

Same as you mentioning you are/have been a scientist/engineer does not mean anything, unless you can state/show some facts that you personally have contributed as a scientist/engineer to make this world a better place. And I do not mean sponsoring some kids.

only a megalomaniac or a complete moron would claim that he personally made this world a better place

[Naam]

there are a lot of things which distinguish me from many others, not only in this thread. one is that never look back at rough times (through which i went not once but dozens of times) thinking "IF ONLY!". although i am not an optimist i abhor extreme pessimism especially when combined with resignation. my view is that success in life is based on prevailing circumstances, luck, hard work and being convinced "yes i can do it" even when overwhelming problems are threatening. moreover, my background (physics and engineering) always meant dealing with facts but also calculated risks based on rational conclusions. the various gloom&doom scenarios are in my view not based on rational conclusions. although it is a fact that i might die tonight, tomorrow or in a week i don't take this fact into consideration except for the usual preparations establishing certain protective measures for loved ones.

and yes! i never felt that there is something wrong with the world as far as i am personally concerned. the simple reason is that at any stage in my life i looked back to where i came from, compared my status with that of my peers and concluded "there's nothing wrong with this world, it has treated me well".

No Sir - There is most certainly something very wrong with the world today when we have the likes of Bernard Madoff, Alan Sandford ripping off their friends, bankers receiving obscene bonuses after participating in corporate failure, corporations and banks flagrantly wasting taxpayers money on million dollar parties. We have people like Robert Mugabe Presiding over the genocide of a country while the world sits by and does nothing- and the list goes on........................... And you say there is nothing wrong with the world. What happened to morals and trust ?

do you need reading glasses? is it not clear that my remark was from my individual perspective and based on my personal situation? shall i use next time instead of my bad English another language (perhaps French, Spanish or Arabic) to make myself understood? will Mugabe resign or will money wasted by bankers be recovered and/or will the world be a better place if i join the "moralists" and lament in Thaivisa unisono with Midas and AlexLah?

[midas]

there are a lot of things which distinguish me from many others, not only in this thread. one is that never look back at rough times (through which i went not once but dozens of times) thinking "IF ONLY!". although i am not an optimist i abhor extreme pessimism especially when combined with resignation. my view is that success in life is based on prevailing circumstances, luck, hard work and being convinced "yes i can do it" even when overwhelming problems are threatening. moreover, my background (physics and engineering) always meant dealing with facts but also calculated risks based on rational conclusions. the various gloom&doom scenarios are in my view not based on rational conclusions. although it is a fact that i might die tonight, tomorrow or in a week i don't take this fact into consideration except for the usual preparations establishing certain protective measures for loved ones.

and yes! i never felt that there is something wrong with the world as far as i am personally concerned. the simple reason is that at any stage in my life i looked back to where i came from, compared my status with that of my peers and concluded "there's nothing wrong with this world, it has treated me well".

No Sir - There is most certainly something very wrong with the world today when we have the likes of Bernard Madoff, Alan Sandford ripping off their friends, bankers receiving obscene bonuses after participating in corporate failure, corporations and banks flagrantly wasting taxpayers money on million dollar parties. We have people like Robert Mugabe Presiding over the genocide of a country while the world sits by and does nothing- and the list goes on........................... And you say there is nothing wrong with the world. What happened to morals and trust ?

do you need reading glasses? is it not clear that my remark was from my individual perspective and based on my personal situation? shall i use next time instead of my bad English another language (perhaps French, Spanish or Arabic) to make myself understood? will Mugabe resign or will money wasted by bankers be recovered and/or will the world be a better place if i join the "moralists" and lament in Thaivisa unisono with Midas and AlexLah?

No I don't need reading glasses or have you translate to another language. I ignored your personal situation because it is

completely uninteresting and irrelevant to this thread. You also said in an earlier post you pity me because I

worry about these things-but it is the utterly selfish attitude which you show in so many of your contributions

and other people like you that have contributed to the sad state of the today's world - and it is you that needs pity.

[midas]

That's a little uncalled for isn't it Alex? C'mon.

This thread I believe was started to educate people about the ongoing financial crisis and hopefully use that information to better take care of themselves and their loved ones. You don't appear to have a grasp of the economic underpinnings of this debacle, so instead you choose to post your wacky theories. I've got some of my own, but sharing them would not serve the people reading this thread looking for valid information with wjich they can make better decisions. Why not start a new "Conspiracy" thread? I'll stop by and give you some to chew on.

Lanna we appreciate your consistent levelheaded and impartial approach. But take for example my question back in Post #535

which incidentally was actually specifically addressed to you after you submitted a very informative article from

http://www.villagevoice.com/2009-01-28/new...rld-s-economy/1

This was all new information for me and even today I don't think anybody can say definitively how much of the total

amount quoted in that article will ultimately remain a problem. But then look at the ridiculous way ( and very personal way ) Naam reacted

to my question to you ( in his subsequent Post #539 and Post #574 )

Everything has to be according to Naam's standards. We are expected to read his endless criticisms and his opinion of the world only

according to Naam - but he is not the moderator of this thread.

And with regards to the subject matter of that highly disputed figure ( 596 Trillion) I still don't see how he can so

arrogantly claim that just because he believes " in essence most derivatives are not lopsided debts " -

that this necessarily applies with this particular situation because the very murkiness attached to these instruments suggests

no one really knows for sure?

[flying]

I think it was LB? ...not sure ...that posted in this or another thread just today or yesterday saying how in reality the world has been broken for some time & we now are starting to see the results. I agree with that.

Yes, that was me flying, but I wasn't making a moralistic judgement. Strictly an economic one based on rates of credit expansion and leverage leading to asset appreciation which failed to account for the underlying risk inherent in all asset ownership.

Yes I understood that & agreed. Many times I said years ago I saw the same thing & wondered what would happen when the world of valuation came to its senses. I knew the banks would be left holding the falsely over valued assets & wondered why it was being allowed.

But when you said we had been living in Bizzaro world for years I also realized that everyone now is supposedly working hard spending billions trying to get back to that. That is very bizzare isn't it? It will never happen of course & again I think like before they very well know it.

[midas]

No, if I recall correctly it was started by 12Drinkmore to - understandably - venthis spleen against the idiots who have got us into this mess.

Now it has been hijacked by people like Alexlahlah who just want to promote their "the sky is falling in and and there will be world-wide rioting in the streets" postulations.

The thread is dead. Some have now stooped to personal insults which is out of order.

The thread is certainly not dead-it is vibrant and informative. You're not the moderator either Chaimai

even though you have continually tried to impose your personal standards throughout these postings.

Just because you are not interested in these issues I dont believe this gives you the right to deem that they are not

worthy of consideration by other TV members.

Edited March 5, 2009 by midas

[Naam]

No I don't need reading glasses or have you translate to another language. I ignored your personal situation because it is completely uninteresting and irrelevant to this thread. You also said in an earlier post you pity me because I worry about these things-but it is the utterly selfish attitude which you show in so many of your contributions and other people like you that have contributed to the sad state of the today's world - and it is you that needs pity.

quote me or stop posting irrelevant bla-bla and false accusations. where did i say i pity you? i have to admit however that i have started to pity you and your worries about Mugabe's "genocide" in Zimbabwe and the drug relating killings in Mexico. both have a tremendous impact on the life of an expat retiree in Thailand

[midas]

quote me or stop posting irrelevant bla-bla and false accusations. where did i say i pity you? i have to admit however that i have started to pity you and your worries about Mugabe's "genocide" in Zimbabwe and the drug relating killings in Mexico. both have a tremendous impact on the life of an expat retiree in Thailand

Your Post #886 - at the same time i pity people like you who are worrying about things which are completely out of their control and influence. on the other hand... to each his own. let masochists have their fun. they have my blessings

[samuibeachcomber]

Have to agree with chaimai,the posts/replies are getting a little personal,maybe time to relax and take a breather.

Its a good topic and i hope it will continue as events unfold daily.

I think Naam takes the view that as there is nothing he can personally do to change the outcome there's not too much point in worrying about it.

A lot of people feel the same way,try to put it to the back of their mind while others like to discuss and kick it around.

[flying]

A lot of people feel the same way,try to put it to the back of their mind while others like to discuss and kick it around.

That is basically true & the way it should be.

Problems start when those that want it in the back of their mind wander in & read.

It upsets their bliss & they start in

Just kidding & I agree all should relax. Everyone knows by my posts I take it all seriously as I can.

I know this world wide problem will bring many to their knees mentally, physically,financially. We should try to be respectful of that & realize many have frazzeled nerves already & we are just starting a long ride.

Edited March 5, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

Have to agree with chaimai,the posts/replies are getting a little personal,maybe time to relax and take a breather.

Its a good topic and i hope it will continue as events unfold daily.

I think Naam takes the view that as there is nothing he can personally do to change the outcome there's not too much point in worrying about it.

A lot of people feel the same way,try to put it to the back of their mind while others like to discuss and kick it around.

wrong impression SBC! it is true that i can't change the outcome of the financial crisis and neither can i influence the situation in Zimbabwe or anywhere else in the world. but that does not mean i put "it" at the back of my mind. au contraire, since quite a long time the challenge how to meet the crisis and its potential aftermath is foremost on my mind. preparing for the crisis is not done by lamenting or pointing fingers, nor is it done by decrying completely irrelevant situations or asking silly questions with the tenor "i have morals, what about you?" lamenting over and over things that can't be changed is the outlet of the weak, clueless or desperate ones. for others the saying applies "when it's going to get tough, the tough get going".

[Naam]

quote me or stop posting irrelevant bla-bla and false accusations. where did i say i pity you? i have to admit however that i have started to pity you and your worries about Mugabe's "genocide" in Zimbabwe and the drug relating killings in Mexico. both have a tremendous impact on the life of an expat retiree in Thailand

Your Post #886 - at the same time i pity people like you who are worrying about things which are completely out of their control and influence. on the other hand... to each his own. let masochists have their fun. they have my blessings

i apologise, you were right!