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[neverdie]

Well Im not naive to what goes on here in thailand, afterall my family has been here for about 30 years. Having said that, you have two sets of untrained eyes at your place and hundreds more online here at TV & most of them wouldnt have a clue what they are looking at. Not one of you has been to the scene, looked at the evidence first hand YET many are willing to jump up and down and say that something isnt quite right. blah blah the Police this and blah blah blah the mafia that....what a load of BS.

Well, those long-trained eyes of the police and of the reporters who went to the scene were the first to say "we should rule out the hypothesis of suicide" and to bring up the mafia connection, only to then correct themselves.

So I would not give them much credit for credibility anyway.

& so it was reported to us in that fashion by the so ohh reliable media

seriously the media su_x big time, they just worry about selling papers, SENSATIONALISM all the way.

[neverdie]

It's a lot easier to believe this as a suicide after it turns out the initial information was completely wrong. Initially reports claimed the head was tied up inside a bag, as it turns out it wasn't. Head inside bag, murder. Head not inside bag, could be suicide or murder.

So the highly qualified forensics teams still haven't managed to work that out after over 48hrs?

SEE this is the problem, THINGS don't get worked out overnight like they do on the telly, some of these things take longer to work out.....what you see on those crime scene shows isnt what happens. In some first world countries it takes weeks to get forensic evidence back.....48 hours is nothing in the REAL WORLD.

Edited February 25, 2009 by neverdie

[madjbs]

We have no idea what the police really thought at first, all we get is very unreliable translated quotes from media without the best English ability. That's why it is completely pointless speculating on anything found in a newspaper article. Not to mention the possibility of completely altering or sensationalising a story in order to sell more papers.

[sriracha john]

I have opened this topic again, as the cause of the death is reported as suicide and not murder.

Please keep this issue civil!

Thanks!

/Admin

Thanks George.

I presume all the posters who stated that this was murder will now admit their mistake (sassienie, sriracha john, etc)

Edit: Occam's razor

First of all SJ was only reporting on the news available. He wasnt one of these coming up with weird and wonderful ideas.

Secondly, remember this is Thailand. Dont always believe what you read. I dont want to turn this into another speculative Alice in Wonderland story, but I do know for a fact that not all high ranking Police Officers in Bangkok believe the 'official' story.

< inappropriate LOL smileys snipped >

Jackndanny,

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of SJ's work & have even jumped to his defence before HOWEVER, he did respond to one of my earlier posts announcing THIS IS MURDER @ one point so you are incorrect on your post above.

Anyway, I'm not one to rub things in BUT as I said before to many of the wannabe television crime scene investigators:

< inappropriate sized font and further LOL smileys snipped >

I TOLD YOU SO

People do strange things to themselves and I have seen that first hand, its always sad for the people they leave behind. Anyway, hopefully he can rest in peace now.

The indication of murder I mentioned was based on two erroneous points made by the media that have since been contradicted by later reporting.

They were:

1. That he was dead prior to decapitation

2. That the decapitation was a clean separation from the torso and looked to have been made by a single strike of a sharp blade.

If you're telling anyone, "I told you so"... you're telling it to the media for its inaccurate reporting.

Do I still have a some doubts myself into this definitive ruling of suicide? Yes, I do. Hopefully they will fade with time as future revelations regarding the case confirm it more convincingly.

RIP Maurizio.

Edited February 25, 2009 by sriracha john

[TAWP]

.BUT after all the episodes of ER & Get Smart they believe in their own minds that they are well qualified to offer their opinions & put the real police down.

Hey come on, thats a bit harsh isn't it?

They have actually watched every episode of CSI ever made, there is nothing about a crime scene these guys don't know!

And I'm happy to see that my theory about the suicide and execution of it most likely is very close to what actually happened...but sad for the fact that it DID happend.

It sounds like a person down on his luck and money. Sad case all around.

[JosephGavon]

& so it was reported to us in that fashion by the so ohh reliable media

seriously the media su_x big time, they just worry about selling papers, SENSATIONALISM all the way.

Sure, the media sucks, and certainly the mafia hypothesis is outright sensationalism, but this is not a fabrication:

Pol Col Chavalit Prasobsilp, a police chief,

said that it was apparently not a suicide

and he will wait for autopsy results before concluding how the head was cut from the body.

Anyway, we are here precisely to discuss and speculate, and we can do that only on the basis of what we have. From the picture, the attitude of the police in general and in this particular case, and the awareness of how things go in Thailand, I think it was very reasonable to hypothesize murder and rule out suicide.

[neverdie]

^You know SJ, just knowing what the media is like is enuf for me to not pass comment on this one & my actual first comments were only, "Don't rule out suicide yet".

I never jumped up and down indicating that it was one or the other & still I would NOT do that because naturally like the rest of us I am not privy to any of the real evidence in this case.

Having said that, I am saying TOLD YOU SO, to those here that have been critising the Police or making smart comments about them regarding suicide.

As I said before, naturally you & the others have used your great wealth and knowledge as experienced investigators to arrive at your conclusions, it just amazes me you do with such confidence.

If people are going to run around and critise about this taking too long and that taking too long and the Police this and the Police that, I will speak up and let you know how things work in the REAL world with these types of things. Hopefully then a few might be a little more considerate before critising the Authorities.

Its not a very nice job to deal with things like this and most people here havent got a clue what thats like, its also not nice to be critised by the community you are trying to serve, especially when it comes to things that are out of your control. I pity these men and women that have to deal with body parts, examinations, sifting through the evidence to try and establish what some poor fool has done to himself or someone has done to him.

If it is a suicide dam_n him for being so self centred & selfish as to put these people through these tasks, not to mention his loved ones family and friends. I for one have no doubt that there are plenty of Police and Investigators that are trying to establish the truth and fact in these types of matters & the media, its affiliates and all the germs jumping up and down about things they don't know about should be ashamed of themselves.

Thats real blood on the side of the bridge, thats a human head, a body floating in the water & a whole lot of real truama involved here....when you see it for real, smell it, feel it and live it YOU NEVER FORGET IT, its not some fake arsed tv show drummed up for entertainment.....some things take a very long time to establish & not all tests are conclusive either.

[JosephGavon]

According to the Italian newspapers (www.corriere.it), Tosadori had stomach cancer.

[samuibeachcomber]

can we start a sub thread............................"who is cath"

[JosephGavon]

can we start a sub thread............................"who is cath"

No-one, I believe. According to the Italian press, the writing on the railing has nothing to do with him: it just happened to be there, from before. Thousands of people go to that bridge to write all sort of corny khrap.

The police are said to have checked the handwriting of his "suicide note" in the guesthouse against that on the railing, and they don't seem to match.

[samuibeachcomber]

end of story then,amazing coincidence having the writing near where the death happened.

[samuibeachcomber]

amazing thread,i was beginning to feel like i was taking a beginners course in criminal psychology.very sad story.

[dee123]

I have opened this topic again, as the cause of the death is reported as suicide and not murder.

Please keep this issue civil!

Thanks!

/Admin

Thanks George.

I presume all the posters who stated that this was murder will now admit their mistake (sassienie, sriracha john, etc)

Edit: Occam's razor

First of all SJ was only reporting on the news available. He wasnt one of these coming up with weird and wonderful ideas.

Secondly, remember this is Thailand. Dont always believe what you read. I dont want to turn this into another speculative Alice in Wonderland story, but I do know for a fact that not all high ranking Police Officers in Bangkok believe the 'official' story.

< inappropriate LOL smileys snipped >

Jackndanny,

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of SJ's work & have even jumped to his defence before HOWEVER, he did respond to one of my earlier posts announcing THIS IS MURDER @ one point so you are incorrect on your post above.

Anyway, I'm not one to rub things in BUT as I said before to many of the wannabe television crime scene investigators:

< inappropriate sized font and further LOL smileys snipped >

I TOLD YOU SO

People do strange things to themselves and I have seen that first hand, its always sad for the people they leave behind. Anyway, hopefully he can rest in peace now.

The indication of murder I mentioned was based on two erroneous points made by the media that have since been contradicted by later reporting.

They were:

1. That he was dead prior to decapitation

2. That the decapitation was a clean separation from the torso and looked to have been made by a single strike of a sharp blade.

If you're telling anyone, "I told you so"... you're telling it to the media for its inaccurate reporting.

Do I still have a some doubts myself into this definitive ruling of suicide? Yes, I do. Hopefully they will fade with time as future revelations regarding the case confirm it more convincingly.

RIP Maurizio.

"two erroneos points made by the media" can you share with us SJ who mislead you?

[sriracha john]

Post #191

[baht&sold]

Extremely sad end... complete with some predictably sad comments

RIP

Edited February 25, 2009 by baht&sold

[dee123]

Post #191

Srirachajohn was apparently mislead by Thai Rath

[patklang]

its amazing how many posters believed the police,but dont believe them when they say there was a suicide,itsthais trying to kill us all.

Total madness and total idiots .

[elfe]

poor man! whatever made him do this... RIP

i just wonder what the plastic bag was for? did he want to suffocate in it?

[JimsKnight]

There's 1,000,001 stories in Bangkok and this is just one of them. Life goes on, the wheel keeps spinning. What's done is done, it looks to me as though this is the end of the story on this one.

[tw25rw]

We need an NSI specialist to advise in such matters. I would have thought that if there was enough gravitational force to rip his head from his body then that same force would have hurled his head into the river, not left it hanging by a thread on the end of a rope. Sounds very, very dubious to me. But then I'm not an expert. Has this sort of thing ever happened anywhere else?

The knot wasn't a normal noose knot designed to break the neck. It was some kind of slip knot which pulled tight around what was left of the neck and held tight. Would have had to have cut quite deep.

Did look weird how his head was horizontal though.

As for the bag, it looked to be hanging from the rope or his ear. Didn't see any pics of it covering his head. Some people have stated that his head was put in a bag which was then suspended, which is plainly wrong.

[sriracha john]

Post #191

Srirachajohn was apparently mislead by Thai Rath

Somehow, I don't think I was alone...

Thai Rath

Thai Rath is a Thailand newspaper covering general news.

Thai Rath founded in December 1962. Thai Rath is the oldest and most popular newspaper in Thailand. It is one of the world's top hundred daily newspapers based on circulation.

With daily circulation of 1,200,000.

- Media Reviews

http://www.mondotimes.com/1/world/th/226/all/12077

[dumball]

I Think a lot of the contraversy on this thread has been caused by the first picture shown of a head in a clear plastic bag which was complete and not damaged . It gave the impression that it had been severed and placed in that bag , this , of course , has been shown to be not the case .

[pop_corn]

Poor man.. RIP

[dee123]

Westerner murdered, decapitated, head hung beneath Bangkok's Rama VIII Bridge

BANGKOK: -- The Thai capital was shocked Sunday afternoon when the head of western man of undetermined nationality was found hanging under Bangkok's famous Rama VIII Bridge.

Metropolitan police officers found the head attached by plastic rope dangling under the Rama VIII Bridge. At the roadway level balustrade, police discovered a message written in correction fluid, 'CATH I WANT BUT I CANNOT CAME TO BANGKOK TO BE YOU'.

Police said that the victim's nationality was not yet clear, but suggested that he might be aged between 40-45 years old and that he had been killed less than 16 hours ago.

An investigation is now being carried out at entertainment venues, popular foreign residences and embassies to identify the victim.

-- TNA 2009-02-22

Quite right Srirachajohn heres another example TNA I prefer to stick with sources that I trust!

Edited February 25, 2009 by dee123

[sriracha john]

Italian decapitated after jumping from Thai bridge

BANGKOK: Authorities said Wednesday that they have identified the body of an Italian tourist who apparently decapitated himself by jumping off a bridge with a noose around his neck.

Billed as the case of the headless foreigner, the mystery of the dead man enthralled the Thai media in recent days.

Clues had trickled in since Sunday's gruesome discovery of the 52-year-old man's head hanging by a rope from Rama VIII bridge in what is believed to be a suicide, Thai and Italian officials said.

His headless body, clad in a white shirt and black trousers, was found floating nearby in Bangkok's Chao Phraya river and authorities confirmed a match.

Forensics experts determined the body showed no sign of assault and that the "force of gravity" appeared to have separated the body and head, said deputy police commissioner Jongrak Jutanont. "We have no evidence that suggested it was a murder," Jongrak said.

The unusual death near Bangkok's main backpacker district instantly became a front-page story in Thai newspapers. Media speculated that the death resembled a Russian mob-style execution.

The Italian Embassy said their investigation corroborated the suicide theory.

"The first impression that we got — an Italian head attached by a rope to a bridge — we thought it was a mafia-type warning," said Andrea Vitalone, the embassy's police commissioner.

"Our analysis confirms that it is possible that it was a suicide. We are still investigating," he said.

The man was identified as Maurizio Tosadori of Verona who was visiting Bangkok, said Vitalone, adding that he had no criminal record in Italy but appeared to be in financial trouble.

A number of clues helped police determine the man was an Italian national, including clothing by the Italian brand Puma and a bag bearing the name of an Italian hotel, Jongrak said.

A Bangkok guesthouse filed a missing persons report about an Italian visitor, which led police to his room. They found photos of a man resembling the victim, Jongrak said. Forensics experts linked the identity by a distinctive mole on the head that was also visible in the photographs.

- Associated Press / 2009-02-25

[dee123]

Italian decapitated after jumping from Thai bridge

BANGKOK: Authorities said Wednesday that they have identified the body of an Italian tourist who apparently decapitated himself by jumping off a bridge with a noose around his neck.

Billed as the case of the headless foreigner, the mystery of the dead man enthralled the Thai media in recent days.

Clues had trickled in since Sunday's gruesome discovery of the 52-year-old man's head hanging by a rope from Rama VIII bridge in what is believed to be a suicide, Thai and Italian officials said.

His headless body, clad in a white shirt and black trousers, was found floating nearby in Bangkok's Chao Phraya river and authorities confirmed a match.

Forensics experts determined the body showed no sign of assault and that the "force of gravity" appeared to have separated the body and head, said deputy police commissioner Jongrak Jutanont. "We have no evidence that suggested it was a murder," Jongrak said.

The unusual death near Bangkok's main backpacker district instantly became a front-page story in Thai newspapers. Media speculated that the death resembled a Russian mob-style execution.

The Italian Embassy said their investigation corroborated the suicide theory.

"The first impression that we got — an Italian head attached by a rope to a bridge — we thought it was a mafia-type warning," said Andrea Vitalone, the embassy's police commissioner.

"Our analysis confirms that it is possible that it was a suicide. We are still investigating," he said.

The man was identified as Maurizio Tosadori of Verona who was visiting Bangkok, said Vitalone, adding that he had no criminal record in Italy but appeared to be in financial trouble.

A number of clues helped police determine the man was an Italian national, including clothing by the Italian brand Puma and a bag bearing the name of an Italian hotel, Jongrak said.

A Bangkok guesthouse filed a missing persons report about an Italian visitor, which led police to his room. They found photos of a man resembling the victim, Jongrak said. Forensics experts linked the identity by a distinctive mole on the head that was also visible in the photographs.

- Associated Press / 2009-02-25

Yep, you,Italian officials et all were reading "Thai" media reports, ......best to wait before jumping to conclusions from those sources

[oevna]

Guys, a little healthy skepticism is a good thing when stories like this come out. There's no need to call anyone an idiot for questioning the official line, as there is plenty of precedent to inspire doubt.

I'm just glad this is over now so we can put it behind us and let the poor man rest in peace.

[MALITA]

According to the Italian newspapers (www.corriere.it), Tosadori had stomach cancer.

No!... this newspaper doesn't talk about cancer,they are just telling the same story like in Thailand,a Tumor,but doesn't mean it was Cancer!!

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/09_febbrai...44f02aabc.shtml

Stop adding more details just to say something and respect this poor man who commit suicide by an act of desperation and abandon ...

R.I.P Signore Maurizio Tosadori

[dee123]

According to the Italian newspapers (www.corriere.it), Tosadori had stomach cancer.

No!... this newspaper doesn't talk about cancer,they are just telling the same story like in Thailand,a Tumor,but doesn't mean it was Cancer!!

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/09_febbrai...44f02aabc.shtml

Stop adding more details just to say something and respect this poor man who commit suicide by an act of desperation and abandon ...

R.I.P Signore Maurizio Tosadori

anybody speak Italian? so we can translate this article,....

Edited February 25, 2009 by dee123

[pimfram]

from the stamp on the passport one deduces that he was a assiduous frequent visitor of the Country

Thailand, Italian hanged person: suicide

The body of Maurizio Tosadori, veronese of 54 years, found in a river. The head dangled from a rope

BANGKOK - Sunday in the river Chao Phraya di Bangkok is of an Italian the found corpse, with the still penzolante head from a rope tied to the bridge Rama VIII.

The police, prefers the hypothesis of the suicide for hanging, has identified the victim in Maurizio Tosadori, a veronese architect of 54 years who found himself in the Country from the February beginning. The identity of the victim has been confirmed from the Italian embassy.

PASSPORT IN HOTEL - To Tosadori arrived after three days of surveying, when the woman who manages the small guest house where the veronese spent the night, in the Saint Khao Road, has contacted the police.

In the room there was his passport: in the photo, new a particularly visible one on the left temple corresponds to what it has the victim. Tosadori had entered in Thailand from Cambodia, and from the many stamps in the document it deduces that he was a assiduous frequent visitor of the Country. After the hypothesis of the homicide, the police inclines for the hypothesis that the Italian has removed the life hanging itself with a rope from mountain. The examinations carried out from the Siriraj Hospital on the head have defined the wound compatible with the hypothesis of the suicide: the violence of the tear - the jump has been of beyond five meters and the body of the victim was overweight - therefore would have caused the decapitation. The dead women could go back to approximately 24 hours before the retrival of the body, therefore to saturday.

ECONOMIC PROBLEMS AND OF HEALTH - Tosadori would have killed for the serious conditions of health and economic in which it was found. The police has reported that he often coughed and he had a tumor to the stomach. The albergatrice, knew than it for a long time, has revealed that the man had disappeared on saturday after that had to leave the room having accommodated it for two weeks without paying. In a letter found in the room, together to various medicines, Tosadori the woman for the hospitality ringraziava. An other ticket, found again on the bridge with a phrase in English who ago to think next to the desperation for a difficult love, had initial state associated the victim. But that bridge is used from many braces of Bangkok for the exchange of messages and a comparison between the various handwriting seems to exclude the hypothesis that the ticket has been written from the victim.

25 February 2009

Edited February 25, 2009 by pimfram