the pros, cons/risks of keeping weapons for self protection

[Ulysses G.]

Imagine that, going to jail for shooting a (unarmed) burglar.

Who broke into your house knowing that you were there - and perhaps your family - and didn't give a shit!

By the way, burglars often kill people with things they find inside the house (so the police do not catch them carring a weapon).

[eldar1]

Who broke into your house knowing that you were there - and perhaps your family - and didn't give a shit!

By the way, burglars often kill people with things they find inside the house (so the police do not catch them carring a weapon).

How do you know that they knew you were there? Did they make an appointment? I'm a firm believer that most people don't want to kill another person, not because i'm such a firm believe in the humanity of people, but because the trait is more or less hardwired into us by evolution.

99.9% of the time that a burglar is in your house, he is just trying to steal your stuff, not trying to kill you. If he is there with the intent to kill you, he'll probably kill you before you have a chance of retaliation. Besides a high percentage of murderers actually have a reason to kill you, it's only the real sociopaths that don't (and even then) so chances are that if an intruder is in your house with the intent to kill you, you probably a) know him and did something to piss him off enough to give him reason to kill you.

The reason i see most given for why burgalrs shoot the people in the home is if the people wake up and catch them in the act. Doesn't it then stand to reason that if you don't catch them in the act than they won't have a reason to kill you?

[Huey]

Cons ;

1) Possibility of it getting found out by the authorities and having to pay a steep bribe

2) Having it fall in to the wrong hands (ie kids if you don't know how to discipline them)

3) Over priced in Thailand

Pros;

1) Living when you may otherwise would have been murdered.

I keep a .45

[Huey]

I was bought up on a farm with a gun rack full of rifles and shotguns. Once each of us got to 8 or 9 we started firearms training with a single shot .22.....so by the time we became adults we had plenty of experiences. I have no fear of good citizens being in possession of firearms.

But there is an obligation on all good citizens to be careful with their firearms. The problem has always been how to store your firearm and ammo whilst still having quick access. To protect little ones some sort of bedside draw or cupboard is needed with a catch that can only be activated by pushing a hidden button at the back as well as the one at front. Ok for an adult to activate but impossible for a child.

I'd recommend a small frame revolver. Today self loaders have 2 or 3 safeties and in a pressure situation in the middle of the night the last thing you want is to be worrying about getting everything right. With a revolver, unlock the draw, pickup the revolver, identify the target and fire! Double taps to the trunk of the body. Keep a speed loader in the same draw so you can reload in seconds. After the first perp goes down the others will probably run....unless of course they are after you, not your laptop and cell phone!

A Model 40 Smith & Wesson would be an ideal choice. Has a grip safety, .38 caliber, is hammerless so good for concealed carry and is reasonably light.

Well said and good advice.

[Huey]

Actually, I much prefer that NOONE be able to buy or sell guns or ammo. The problem is that, in too many countries, the genie is out of the bottle. Too many people already have them.

Agreed. But once the genie is out, is that it? Are you saying there's no point trying to stop the escalation of people being armed, living in our communities?

Yes that is exactly what we are saying. An Armed citizenry over all is a good thing for them and it helps to keep their rights, life and lively hood protected from people like you who would seek to dis empower everyone. First your gun rights then your freedom of speech.. there is a reason why it's the 2nd amendment in the US.

[rolypie]

When you wake up in the middle of the night and three young Thai thugs with metal pipes and knives are breaking down your bedroom door, see if you can remember all of those "ways to protect yourself without using guns".

I bet you can't.

I will throw my slippers at them

[eldar1]

First your gun rights then your freedom of speech.. there is a reason why it's the 2nd amendment in the US.

Is this were the phrase "Kill first, ask questions later" comes from?

[IMA_FARANG]

Those who like the feel of having a weapon around the house will always find reasons to justify it. The facts are:

1. More people are killed every year by the weapon they keep in their own house than any intruders that break into their house ever are. Either someone in the house is playing with the weapon and shoots themselves "accidentally" or they shoot someone else in the house with the weapon that was supposedly there to "protect" them. It isn't uncommon for a wife to shoot her huband who is coming home late, and trying to enter the room quietly so as not to wake the wife.

2. Almost always, in shootings caused by domestic arguements (husband and wife) the shooting is done by the gun that was in the house for "protection" of the family.

3. As Police know, the average person, without training in how to react in a stress situation is more dangerous with a gun to themselves and other family members when a real emergency occurs than to any intruder. They are as likely to shoot one of their own family by firing off a shot "in the general direction" of an intruder that hits someone else in their family in the house.

4. In actuality, most burglers are there to steal something of value. When discovered, their first tendency is to run away. They don't want to hurt anyone, they just want what is there to steal.

5. In households with children, guns cause more injuries from children playing with the weapon than all other reasons for gunshot injuries.

[coventry]

What else is there to go on, a Thai cop's word?

You and other posters must live in a built up area. I live in a small village that has a high police number due to the area that they oversee. How the police are percieved, isn't how it is where I live. They live & socialise within the community. Here isn't like BKK or any other city, or town come to that. Your next door neigbour is most likely a policeman. If not, they're more than likely be either the wifes family member, or a friend. There is none of this phoney money taking shit. That starts 10 kilometers away, once you reach the main highway. Here is a rural community that needs to be excluded from the shit that is portrayed by farangs about Thai police. Come live in rural Thailand, and not the 'Ivory Towers' of Pattaya, Phuket, BKK' etc. GungaDin, get a life in real Thailand. Edited April 11, 2009 by coventry

[GungaDin]

What else is there to go on, a Thai cop's word?

<snip> Come live in rural Thailand, and not the 'Ivory Towers' of Pattaya, Phuket, BKK' etc. GungaDin, get a life in real Thailand.

No thanks, I'm quite happy in Faux Thailand.

I know what happens to foreigners in the Real Thailand !

[Huey]

First your gun rights then your freedom of speech.. there is a reason why it's the 2nd amendment in the US.

Is this were the phrase "Kill first, ask questions later" comes from?

I never heard that phrase before. Where are you from?

It's simple, a armed citizenry is harder to oppress than an unarmed one.

[fullservice]

It's simple, a armed citizenry is harder to oppress than an unarmed one.

Still living in the 19th century huh? Today only a few countries oppress people by brute force. Politicians and media manipulate the public with their scare tactics way more effectively.

[endure]

First your gun rights then your freedom of speech.. there is a reason why it's the 2nd amendment in the US.

Is this were the phrase "Kill first, ask questions later" comes from?

I never heard that phrase before. Where are you from?

It's simple, a armed citizenry is harder to oppress than an unarmed one.

Do you seriously imagine that the US government would allow an uprising by a 'well regulated militia' to succeed? They would grind you into the ground.

[Ulysses G.]

Who broke into your house knowing that you were there - and perhaps your family - and didn't give a shit!

By the way, burglars often kill people with things they find inside the house (so the police do not catch them carring a weapon).

How do you know that they knew you were there? Did they make an appointment? I'm a firm believer that most people don't want to kill another person, not because i'm such a firm believe in the humanity of people, but because the trait is more or less hardwired into us by evolution.

You don't think that a burglar checks to see if anyone is in a house that he is robbing? Talk about naive. Sometimes he calls the telephone (if he can get the number). Sometimes he rings the doorbell. Sometimes he just watches the house, but he always KNOWS. He always wants the benefit of surprise. Fuzzy headed liberal "thinking" indeed!

Edited April 12, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[flying]

Is this were the phrase "Kill first, ask questions later" comes from?

No your thinking of the phrase

From My Cold Dead Hands........

Cold Dead Hands

Those who like the feel of having a weapon around the house will always find reasons to justify it. The facts are:

Please when claiming something as facts post a link to back them up.

If not then just say it is your opinion ike those you posted..........

Still living in the 19th century huh? Today only a few countries oppress people by brute force. Politicians and media manipulate the public with their scare tactics way more effectively.

You mean like Australia & the UK where they banned the right to bear arms?

Go check the facts all over the web on that idea & what it achieved.

Do you seriously imagine that the US government would allow an uprising by a 'well regulated militia' to succeed? They would grind you into the ground.

Let us hope it never comes to fathers shooting their sons eh?

Or in the case your describing sons being ordered to shoot their fathers.

Edited April 12, 2009 by flying

[Ulysses G.]

Do you seriously imagine that the US government would allow an uprising by a 'well regulated militia' to succeed? They would grind you into the ground.

We don't seem to able to suppress uprisings in any other country. Why is it going to be so easy at

home?

[Huey]

Do you seriously imagine that the US government would allow an uprising by a 'well regulated militia' to succeed? They would grind you into the ground.

We don't seem to able to suppress uprisings in any other country. Why is it going to be so easy at

home?

A lil sad but true. endure seems to think it will be a walk in the park. It wouldn't happen. And besides who's talking about a uprising? I'm just taking about preserving the 2nd amendment, and extolling its virtues.

[eldar1]

Who broke into your house knowing that you were there - and perhaps your family - and didn't give a shit!

By the way, burglars often kill people with things they find inside the house (so the police do not catch them carring a weapon).

How do you know that they knew you were there? Did they make an appointment? I'm a firm believer that most people don't want to kill another person, not because i'm such a firm believe in the humanity of people, but because the trait is more or less hardwired into us by evolution.

You don't think that a burglar checks to see if anyone is in a house that he is robbing? Talk about naive. Sometimes he calls the telephone (if he can get the number). Sometimes he rings the doorbell. Sometimes he just watches the house, but he always KNOWS. He always wants the benefit of surprise. Fuzzy headed liberal "thinking" indeed!

I must admit that i did not check the stats on this (it seems to be not worthwhile to argu with facts on this board)*, i was only speaking from my personal experience and that of my friends. I've personally(or my family) been burgled 6 times in my life. 4 times while sleeping and twice while away, speaking to friends they have been burgled while at home as well. Most of the time not everything is stolen, usually just high value electronics (tv,stereo, mobiles, etc) and any cash or jewellery lying around. Somehow it seems that not all burglars are mastermind thieves that case a place for days before they rob it, there are plenty of them the break in just for the quick cash.

*i'm not realy talking about you ulysses, more in general

[GungaDin]

Please when claiming something as facts post a link to back them up.

If not then just say it is your opinion ike those you posted..........

Still living in the 19th century huh? Today only a few countries oppress people by brute force. Politicians and media manipulate the public with their scare tactics way more effectively.

You mean like Australia & the UK where they banned the right to bear arms?

Go check the facts all over the web on that idea & what it achieved.

2 Links please?

[flying]

Please when claiming something as facts post a link to back them up.

If not then just say it is your opinion ike those you posted..........

Still living in the 19th century huh? Today only a few countries oppress people by brute force. Politicians and media manipulate the public with their scare tactics way more effectively.

You mean like Australia & the UK where they banned the right to bear arms?

Go check the facts all over the web on that idea & what it achieved.

2 Links please?

Lazy lil piece of meat aren't you

I did not claim or quote supposed facts.

In any case dont bother looking here I will make it easy for you

Aussie Version

a UK version for you too........

UK version

If you really want an easy version you can just watch....... The UK warning the USA

Edited April 12, 2009 by flying

[eldar1]

Please when claiming something as facts post a link to back them up.

If not then just say it is your opinion ike those you posted..........

Still living in the 19th century huh? Today only a few countries oppress people by brute force. Politicians and media manipulate the public with their scare tactics way more effectively.

You mean like Australia & the UK where they banned the right to bear arms?

Go check the facts all over the web on that idea & what it achieved.

2 Links please?

Lazy lil piece of meat aren't you

I did not claim or quote supposed facts.

In any case dont bother looking here I will make it easy for you

Aussie Version

a UK version for you too........

UK version

If you really want an easy version you can just watch....... The UK warning the USA

Interesting links, the UK one was a bit better put together than the australian one, but both were interesting.

In the UK it states that there is a huge increase in violent crime (it does not specify guns related or not), now increases in crime happen all the time, mostly do to changing cultural preferences (this is stated in the article also, although in relation to murder rate). This article only asks the question if guns would have prevented such crimes in the first place. It's main reasoning is a survey among criminals in the US taht states that they are more scared of the public having guns than getting caught by the police. Wouldn't this be natural as getting caught by the police only means jail time and having a member of the public point a gun in your face means possible death. I know i'm scared at the thought that some random a-hole has a gun and is not afriad to brandy it about for no apperant reason.

The other point it makes is about the changing murder rates in the UK again it does not specify gun related, but let's assume. The murder rate is getting higher in the UK even with the ban on guns. The premise is again that having a gun would prevent these crimes. Could the murder increase also not be attributed to the chagning cultral values that led the US to have higher murder rates? UK and US culture is increasingly becoming more homogenous therefore certain aspects of each society would become similar as well.

The articles raise some valid points, but not any concrete evidence that an increase in guns means a decrease in violence. If it were really the case that weapons have so much of a detternce effect, then why the ban on nuclear weapons? doesn't the same theory hold up there aswell? I'm pretty sure that that was the main reason behind the huge stockpiling of nuclear weapons in the west and russia, the premise that M.A.D would prevent the use of them.

I have a feeling this thread is going a bit off topic and i'm partly to blame for that, so this will be my last post on the subject in this thread.

[Ulysses G.]

The reason i see most given for why burgalrs shoot the people in the home is if the people wake up and catch them in the act. Doesn't it then stand to reason that if you don't catch them in the act than they won't have a reason to kill you?

Let us say that you are right. Maybe you have the presense of mind to lay in bed and pretend to be asleep, so the criminal does not kill you. However, what happens when there are children who wake up and are scared to death and not "smart" enough to lay there in bed and pretend to snore?

[GungaDin]

Please when claiming something as facts post a link to back them up.

If not then just say it is your opinion ike those you posted..........

Still living in the 19th century huh? Today only a few countries oppress people by brute force. Politicians and media manipulate the public with their scare tactics way more effectively.

You mean like Australia & the UK where they banned the right to bear arms?

Go check the facts all over the web on that idea & what it achieved.

2 Links please?

Lazy lil piece of meat aren't you

I did not claim or quote supposed facts.

In any case dont bother looking here I will make it easy for you

My apologies, the irony of the posts was wasted on you.

American, are you?

[flying]

My apologies, the irony of the posts was wasted on you.

American, are you?

Trust me I saw the irony but you mis-read my post.

Still a good opportunity to educate should never be passed up

Aussie eh?

[Ulysses G.]

Where some nationalities are known for drinking lots of beer and BBQing, Australians are famous for their great wit and intellectual prowess.

[thaimate]

Keeping a gun in a house is a liability. If you keep it so secure that it is not a liability, then it is useless anyway. Are you going to ask the bastards to kindly wait whilst you find the key and load the weapon? Obviously not, so it has to be ready at hand and loaded.

Get a nasty dog if you are so concerned, or move away as has been suggested already.

Bars on all windows, solid and secure doors, motion detectors turning on bright lights around the house, and a good alarm system in the house. There are few criminals prepared to hang around in a highly illuminated area with a screaming alarm system.

good grief,no doom and gloom from 12drinkmore,but the best advice that you have had so far.

well done .