Update: Good Immigration Lawyer Desperately Needed!

[buzzer]

Hi,

I started the previous post a month ago. If you're not familiar with it, I posted the link to the original below.

My friend, who will remain anonymous, is an asian foreign national with a Thai wife, with two daughters born here - ages 3+ and 1+. He has a business here, and has lived in Thailand for about 16 years. For the last few weeks before his visa expired on March 10th he was given the runaround, having to prove that he had no police record, and was not another man they accused him of being, i.e., a man with a similar name (but not same name) who was blacklisted.

Running all around Thailand, he came up with a mountain of documentation from various Thai agencies that supported his case. All this they ignored. They refused to give him any explanation for why they were denying him a visa extension.

After 3 or 4 weeks doing things on his own, and with wife and wife's family and friends. He decided to get a lawyer. BTW! The need is NOT for an English speaking lawyer! My friend's Thai is far better than his English.

The 1st (free) lawyer, was contacted about a week before the visa expiry date. He said he could help - but did nothing. If he did as he said, my friend wouldn't have had to leave the country.

The 2nd lawyer, contacted a few days before the visa ran out, was paid 5,000 THB up front, with another 3,000 to be paid when the job was done. He said he would help - but did nothing. If he did as he said, my friend would have returned by now.

2 weeks after leaving Thailand, we found a lawyer who was recommended. This lawyer, too, said he'd help, but stopped answering the phone, and eventually, when contacted, decided not to help. This caused several more days of delay.

Last week, I contacted my friend's embassy in Bangkok, to have them refer a lawyer, but they don't care either, and didn't respond.

Now, we would still like a reference to a good Thai speaking immigration lawyer who is familiar with the laws and the people at Bangkok Immigration, so, please feel free to recommend someone if you know of someone who works and isn't just talk. Sunbelt doesn't have a good reputation, nor does Siam Legal, so please don't recommend them. They have both been criticized by many who used them, citing slow, poor work. This is just what we're trying to avoid.

Now, he's been back in his home country for more than 3 weeks with his 3 year old. The three year old is sick most of the time, and I have feared she might die. He, his wife, and both daughters are continually in a state of depression as every ray hope seems to be vanishing.

Nobody's really working on the matter in Thailand. All the lawyer's have flaked out. It seems that the authorities are supposed (by law) to give an account of their actions. But they won't provide any information.

The Thai embassy in my friend's home country has had him come in 4 times for interviews, and, once he actually got to be interviewed. In any case, they are not granting him a non-immigrant O visa, nor any visa of any kind. They won't tell him why. So, he's been stranded there for more than 3 weeks - far from home and family, in a pretty deplorable city with a sick 3 year old who won't eat, and is loosing weight. And nobody is helpful at all.

He was afraid (if he got a visa - any kind of Thai visa) of coming through Suvarnabhumi and running into trouble there, and was thinking about going through the Lao checkpoint. But this seems a pretty moot point if he's unable to get a proper Thai visa.

Does anyone have any other answers? If he got back into Thailand - even if only on a tourist visa - he could probably get a lawyer, and sort things out. But how can he get in? Legally that is?

I appreciate any advice that can help my friend be reunited with his family. Please read last month's topic for additional information.

Thanks again,

Buzzer

Good Immigration Lawyer Desperately Needed! Case of "mistaken identity" causes Thai Immigration problems

[londonthai]

if he is away from thailand, maybe he should get a local emmigration lawyer, possibly a thai, who might have contacts at consulate. Going to foreign office might be another step to take - diplomatic channels might be faster, especially that his doughter is sick and needs to come back to thailand for a medical attention. He should have the kids health record at hand, stating, that she is in a bad condition and might die.

in some countries going to your local member of parliament will work as well.

don't exclude bribery in thailand, if you find suitable way - possibly local emmigration officer decided to skim him up, knowing that he has a running and prospering business, and all the problems sparkled from this officer

[londonthai]

ps Now you will have to go somewhere higher than the local emmigration officer and spend more money.

If searching for a lawyer in thailand, look not only for a good one but as well well connected in the foreign office - part of his fee will be a tea money for his friends in the foreign office. Mention it to the lawyer upfront and promice some extra money for this purpose on a positive conclusion of the case

[buzzer]

if he is away from thailand, maybe he should get a local emmigration lawyer, possibly a thai, who might have contacts at consulate.

Thanks for answering. I recently studied the possibility of employing the aid of an immigration service, in my own case. In the case of this particular country - N.Z. It's notoriously difficult to get a long-term visa, but the emigration (or immigration) services are apparently staffed by 'yes men', who's job it is to make the picture look rosier than it is.

I don't know if this would apply in my friend's case. At his request, I'm not giving out any details about his name, or country, but suffice it to say, it's more messed up and more crowded than Bangkok, and I think that finding a good lawyer working for him there to get things accomplished here sounds iffy. Still, I'll mention it to him when I speak to him.

Going to foreign office might be another step to take - diplomatic channels might be faster, especially that his doughter is sick and needs to come back to thailand for a medical attention. He should have the kids health record at hand, stating, that she is in a bad condition and might die.

in some countries going to your local member of parliament will work as well.

These are all avenues worth considering. I'll discuss it with him.

don't exclude bribery in thailand, if you find suitable way - possibly local emmigration officer decided to skim him up, knowing that he has a running and prospering business, and all the problems sparkled from this officer

This is a possibility, I guess, but I don't think anyone's approached him about this. All that he ever encounters is 'brick walls' when it comes to dealing with immigration. You'd think that, if they wanted a little 'tea money' they would figure a way of communicating that to him without being too obvious about the matter. Since he's functionally Thai, and very astute, he would pick up on even the slightest overture, but none has been made. Or, maybe he rubbed someone the wrong way, and now he's being forced to pay for it. I know of no such instance, but something is going on that is not immediately apparent.

Please, if any of you know a good, responsible Thai lawyer as described, or can figure another way to get my friend and his daughter back, please post your suggestions.

Thanks again,

Buzzer

[opalhort]

The way I understand it, the problem is because of a blacklisted person with a similar name.

Why can't your friend go to the resposible registration authority / ministry in his home country and have them certify who he is, spelling out his full name in his local language/script AND in roman script (as in Passport)?

Then take this document to the Thai embassy in his home country and have it certified.

Couldn't this resolve the identity issue?

opalhort

[IMA_FARANG]

Hi,

I started the previous post a month ago. If you're not familiar with it, I posted the link to the original below.

My friend, who will remain anonymous, is an asian foreign national with a Thai wife, with two daughters born here - ages 3+ and 1+. He has a business here, and has lived in Thailand for about 16 years. For the last few weeks before his visa expired on March 10th he was given the runaround, having to prove that he had no police record, and was not another man they accused him of being, i.e., a man with a similar name (but not same name) who was blacklisted.

Running all around Thailand, he came up with a mountain of documentation from various Thai agencies that supported his case. All this they ignored. They refused to give him any explanation for why they were denying him a visa extension.

After 3 or 4 weeks doing things on his own, and with wife and wife's family and friends. He decided to get a lawyer. BTW! The need is NOT for an English speaking lawyer! My friend's Thai is far better than his English.

The 1st (free) lawyer, was contacted about a week before the visa expiry date. He said he could help - but did nothing. If he did as he said, my friend wouldn't have had to leave the country.

The 2nd lawyer, contacted a few days before the visa ran out, was paid 5,000 THB up front, with another 3,000 to be paid when the job was done. He said he would help - but did nothing. If he did as he said, my friend would have returned by now.

2 weeks after leaving Thailand, we found a lawyer who was recommended. This lawyer, too, said he'd help, but stopped answering the phone, and eventually, when contacted, decided not to help. This caused several more days of delay.

Last week, I contacted my friend's embassy in Bangkok, to have them refer a lawyer, but they don't care either, and didn't respond.

Now, we would still like a reference to a good Thai speaking immigration lawyer who is familiar with the laws and the people at Bangkok Immigration, so, please feel free to recommend someone if you know of someone who works and isn't just talk. Sunbelt doesn't have a good reputation, nor does Siam Legal, so please don't recommend them. They have both been criticized by many who used them, citing slow, poor work. This is just what we're trying to avoid.

Now, he's been back in his home country for more than 3 weeks with his 3 year old. The three year old is sick most of the time, and I have feared she might die. He, his wife, and both daughters are continually in a state of depression as every ray hope seems to be vanishing.

Nobody's really working on the matter in Thailand. All the lawyer's have flaked out. It seems that the authorities are supposed (by law) to give an account of their actions. But they won't provide any information.

The Thai embassy in my friend's home country has had him come in 4 times for interviews, and, once he actually got to be interviewed. In any case, they are not granting him a non-immigrant O visa, nor any visa of any kind. They won't tell him why. So, he's been stranded there for more than 3 weeks - far from home and family, in a pretty deplorable city with a sick 3 year old who won't eat, and is loosing weight. And nobody is helpful at all.

He was afraid (if he got a visa - any kind of Thai visa) of coming through Suvarnabhumi and running into trouble there, and was thinking about going through the Lao checkpoint. But this seems a pretty moot point if he's unable to get a proper Thai visa.

Does anyone have any other answers? If he got back into Thailand - even if only on a tourist visa - he could probably get a lawyer, and sort things out. But how can he get in? Legally that is?

I appreciate any advice that can help my friend be reunited with his family. Please read last month's topic for additional information.

Thanks again,

Buzzer

Good Immigration Lawyer Desperately Needed! Case of "mistaken identity" causes Thai Immigration problems

He is back in his home country now?

Since no one has said this before. I'll let you understand now.

The problem is almost definately a security problem. That's why all the lawyers are backing away from the case.

I'm betting, perhaps I'm wrong, that your friend is a Pakistani. Nothing racist implied, but there are just too many Ali Mohamed Bin Ali (or equivalent) in that country.

Good luck to your friend, but he will have a lot of problems getting off any suspected criminal/terrorist list.

Has he had his fingerprints taken before, say for a passport, driver's liscense, or anything similar?

If he had a copy of his fingerprints on file with the Thai police, then a series of fingerprints taken by him voluntarily could be used to establish he really is who he says he is, not the blacklisted person. Its also possible there is a fingerprint record for this real blacklisted person if that person was ever arrested and deported. So a series of fingerprints from your friend, notarized and sworn too at the police station, could prove your friend is not that blacklisted person.

If your friend was ever in the hospital in Thailand, blood types might show he could not be the balcklisted person, if they were different.

The problem with this too security people, is that they know very well that any real terrorist/drug dealer/international criminal would have established his "bona fides", his "clean" identity in the country he took residence in. So just simple, statements from people that knew him wouldn't be enough. They could be faked, or he could have duped them also.

The only thing I can see, if your friend is really not this blacklisted person, is something like fingerprints, blood tests, etc. that might show hisidenity.

Good luck, but it is going to be a problem to prove his identity.

[mjmkjp]

if he is away from thailand, maybe he should get a local emmigration lawyer, possibly a thai, who might have contacts at consulate.

Thanks for answering. I recently studied the possibility of employing the aid of an immigration service, in my own case. In the case of this particular country - N.Z. It's notoriously difficult to get a long-term visa, but the emigration (or immigration) services are apparently staffed by 'yes men', who's job it is to make the picture look rosier than it is.

I don't know if this would apply in my friend's case. At his request, I'm not giving out any details about his name, or country, but suffice it to say, it's more messed up and more crowded than Bangkok, and I think that finding a good lawyer working for him there to get things accomplished here sounds iffy. Still, I'll mention it to him when I speak to him.

Going to foreign office might be another step to take - diplomatic channels might be faster, especially that his doughter is sick and needs to come back to thailand for a medical attention. He should have the kids health record at hand, stating, that she is in a bad condition and might die.

in some countries going to your local member of parliament will work as well.

These are all avenues worth considering. I'll discuss it with him.

don't exclude bribery in thailand, if you find suitable way - possibly local emmigration officer decided to skim him up, knowing that he has a running and prospering business, and all the problems sparkled from this officer

This is a possibility, I guess, but I don't think anyone's approached him about this. All that he ever encounters is 'brick walls' when it comes to dealing with immigration. You'd think that, if they wanted a little 'tea money' they would figure a way of communicating that to him without being too obvious about the matter. Since he's functionally Thai, and very astute, he would pick up on even the slightest overture, but none has been made. Or, maybe he rubbed someone the wrong way, and now he's being forced to pay for it. I know of no such instance, but something is going on that is not immediately apparent.

Please, if any of you know a good, responsible Thai lawyer as described, or can figure another way to get my friend and his daughter back, please post your suggestions.

Thanks again,

Buzzer

please post email address

[lopburi3]

The forum does not allow posting of email address.

[Mario2008]

please post email address

I'm not sure what you want, but posting of email addresses is against our forum rules.

[wasabi]

It is extremely likely that the skin color and nationality of the person is a key part of his inability to get off the blacklist. As others have said some kind of forensic proof and probably tea money may do the trick.

[buzzer]

It is extremely likely that the skin color and nationality of the person is a key part of his inability to get off the blacklist. As others have said some kind of forensic proof and probably tea money may do the trick.

Hi again,

He's proved time and again that this person and he are not the same. More specifically, he's proven that he's who he is, and nothing can be found out about this other person, who is, in essence, a phantom. This is just the reason that the Thai Immigration people are using. The real reason is probably tea money. He's not from Pakistan or any country associated with exporting terrorism. He's Christian, not Muslim. He's not on a blacklist. They're just using the name similarity as an excuse. And what a stupid excuse it is! As I explained in my OP a month ago, the names are clearly different. Only the last name is the same, and it's a last name more common in the world than Smith. His first name starts with the same initial, but there the similarity ends. His first name has different vowels, and an extra syllable. He also has a middle name, and the 'blacklisted' person doesn't. It's like some immigration official said, "Find someone with a name as close to this man's name as possible from the blacklisted list." And this was the closest match they could find.

Now, however, because of their unwillingness to disclose any information about this blacklisted man, ZERO! - there are doubts that such a person exists. Extensive searching both in Thailand and, going back nearly 20 years in his home country have failed to turn up anyone of that name who is on record in Thailand or the other country as being blacklisted here. Likewise, nothing has been associated with my friend. His name has no record of arrests, blacklists, or anything.

But how can one prove something when evidence is non-existent? Years ago a high school buddy said that the reason John the Baptist got his head chopped off was because he had an affair with Herod's wife. Well, I've read the Bible so many times I lost count. That's not the reason John the Baptist was beheaded. But to prove that I went to everywhere John the Baptist was mentioned, and read the verses, including those that clearly state the reason he was beheaded. When I got to the end, my friend said, "It's in there somewhere, you're just missing it!" I would have had to read the entire Bible aloud to the guy to convince him. It's not in there! Years later I found out that that was part of the plot of an old Hollywood movie my friend saw as a kid.

Just like my high school buddy, these people's ears are shut to the truth - what their reason for this is, I can't say. They are in violation of their own Thai laws by their actions, but figure they can get away with it. A proper lawyer could probably force the issue. In the meantime, my friend has been a resident here for 16 years, is married to a Thai, and they have two offspring. He doesn't want to stir up any trouble with Thai Immigration.

They have refused to tell my friend why they deny him a visa. They developed a cock-and-bull story about him being a blacklisted person, and won't hear otherwise, (IMHO) because they know the truth. Refusal to tell him the charge against him (according to one of the posters in the last thread) is against Thai's own regulations for departmental conduct. In short, they're breaking the law. According to the laws, they are also supposed to reveal which official has made this determination, but they won't release this information either. ThaiVisa member Maestro was very helpful last month in pointing out their illegal actions and even providing a link to the laws being broken.

Thanks for your postings. To the person who wants an email address. We have a personal messaging system on Thai Visa. Please use that option.

Now, I can appreciate curiosity, and read some of the comments, and some have been helpful in an informational way. I'm also glad to answer most questions to the best of my ability. But what is needed has been clearly stated. So, before you post, ask yourself if you can provide the name of a good lawyer, or know of a way for my friend to return.

What's needed is a referral to a good Thai speaking immigration lawyer with a knowledge of the goings on in Bangkok's Immigration Department who will do the job, and not just talk about it and give assurances, as the other 3 lawyers have done.

Or - Do you know of a way for him to get back into the country legally, so that he can pursue this matter further?

So the question is simple, do you have information to aid my friend in, 1. Getting a lawyer? or 2. Getting back into Thailand?

Thanks again,

Buzzer

Original Thread:

Good Immigration Lawyer Desperately Needed! Case of "mistaken identity" causes Thai Immigration problems

[Maestro]

… He doesn't want to stir up any trouble with Thai Immigration… They have refused to tell my friend why they deny him a visa… information to aid my friend in…getting back into Thailand…

I am sorry to hear that the lawyers your friend engaged were unable to help him remain in Thailand. Now that he has left Thailand, to return to his home country, I fear that lawyers in Thailand may find it even more difficult to assist.

It seems obvious to me that nothing can be done without stirring up some trouble somewhere. As long as your friend was in Thailand, that trouble would have had to be stirred up with immigration, which verbally denied him the extension of stay but refused to give a reason in writing, but your friend did not want to cause any trouble with immigration and he left Thailand. The official, written record shows that his last extension was approved on a certain date, with an expiration of a certain date, and that he left Thailand before the expiration date.

Now that he is outside Thailand, the Immigration Bureau is out of the picture. The Thai consulate in his country has refused to issue him a visa for travel to Thailand and any follow-up on this – any trouble to be stirred up – would have to be first with the Thai ambassador in his country and then with Thailand’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The problem is that he, or his representative, cannot deal directly with the foreign ministry of another country. Any contact, any communication, would have to be between a competent official of his country’s foreign ministry with a competent official of Thailand’s foreign ministry. Such contacts would start at a low level and if his country’s government considered the matter sufficiently important would then gradually move up to a higher level until it would finally, if not resolved at an earlier level, reach the point where the foreign ministers and perhaps even the heads of state of the two countries would get involved.

While the immigration office would have had to give your friend, or his lawyer, a reason in writing for the refusal to extend his permission to stay and this could have been appealed to a higher authority within Thailand, the Thai consulate is free to refuse a visa without any reason.

--

Maestro

[slim]

I've used Tilleke and Gibbons in the past.

Don't know if they can help with your specifc problem but they're worth a try.

www.tillekeandgibbins.com

[asean]

It seems like your Friend does not have an immigration problem but more of a "TIT" problem.

Happy to recommend some very good, long established and well connected Thai law firms who have never let me down. But no one is going to do anything until you volunteer your friend's nationality, and country of residence. As you know rules and procedures vary from country to country.

[Zappadappa]

a free lawyer then about 6000bht for the next one?

Pay peanuts get monkeys!

[RubbaJohnny]

Found good but expensive lawyers in N Thailnsd

pm for details

Perhaps best for your "friend to return to his homeland and re-unite his family'

No foreigner has a right to reside here and having been blocked by Immi possibly for not paying up

You say a christian from an Asian country so Pilipino or perhaps Iraqi?Russian Lebanese all of whom are pretty low on Immi scum radar

If you cannot give more detail its difficult to help

Criticising TV sponsors is the kind of insensitivity to local ways that perhaps failed to meet the initial corruption

shakedown.Its going to cost em either way leave a sour tatse better go somewhere he is not blacklisted?

[Arkady]

This story sounds strange with a lot of missing details. If Immigration admit the name of the blacklisted person is not exactly the same, why wouldn't they ask for some simple verification from his embassy? If they think it the OP's friend is the blacklisted person, wouldn't it seem odd that he has been living under their noses and going in and out of Thailand for the entire 10 years of the ban. I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Could it be that some one with connections has paid to have him booted out of the country, probably not the lawyer - seems too much trouble for him to bother? Has he been hanging on for years with a questionable visa status? Did he have a work permit with the business he owned etc, etc? Why wouldn't he have appealed the decision at Immigration before his visa expired, as every one has the right to do?

I don't know what can be done now, except perhaps find a lawyer with good connections who is willing to get the bottom of the case with Immigration to find out why he is really blacklisted and then see if he can be taken off the blacklist. I don't know who to recommend. Maybe Tillecke and Gibbons, as recommended by others. They are fairly competent but quite expensive and normally work for companies but are a bit more down to earth than the other multinational type firms. Most of the firms that advertise work to do with visas and small farang companies probably don't have the stature and connections to handle a complicated case like this. They mainly just fill in forms and send messengers to government offices which is their bread and butter business and I'm not knocking them because they usually get the job done at a reasonable cost. Most of the big multinational firms just give you a cup of Nescafe and Coffeemate in a freezing conference room and a flash overseas educated Thai lawyer to go with it, who quotes sections of Thai law at you to explain why what you asked them to get done is impossible and then send a huge bill. He needs somehow to fix the problem at the Thai end, so that he will no longer be blacklisted with Thai embassies. If not, he will have to think about how to sell the Thai business and have his family join him in his own country.

[Artabus]

"Now, we would still like a reference to a good Thai speaking immigration lawyer who is familiar with the laws and the people at Bangkok Immigration, so, please feel free to recommend someone if you know of someone who works and isn't just talk. Sunbelt doesn't have a good reputation, nor does Siam Legal, so please don't recommend them. They have both been criticized by many who used them, citing slow, poor work. This is just what we're trying to avoid."

Agree completely about Siam Legal. I used them, and they were a disaster.

Would strongly recommend this firm though, they have been highly effective

http://www.dejudomlaw.com/index.php?option...6&Itemid=38

Good luck.

[cosmont]

http://www.lawsolutions.co.th/index.shtml

[buzzer]

Hi all,

I would have been responding all along, but my internet has been down over the weekend, and, of course, it's impossible to get anyone to fix things on weekends. Just hope in doesn't go down during songkran:)

I'll respond at greater length later today, internet, and God, willing. Just got my internet up a few minutes ago, and this was the first order of business.

I'll be checking out some of the referrals you gave tomorrow, as the internet didn't come back until about 3 PM here.

Thank you,

Buzzer

[buzzer]

Hi,

My friend returned to Suvarnabhumi last Thursday, after having a tourist visa granted by the Thai consulate in his home country. His daughter 3yrs. 2mos., was sick the entire 28 days there with a fever over 40c at times, and couldn't eat without vomiting. She was also becoming somewhat jaundiced, and lost 3 Kg. So he had to get back to get her in the hospital, whatever the cost to himself.

Untrusting of Thai immigration at the airport, he made sure that his daughter's and his belongings were in separate bags. Her mother was waiting at the Airport with me and the youngest daughter. At about 6:30 AM he called and said he was being detained by immigration, and they wouldn't let him into the country because his name was similar to this blacklisted man I mentioned before, and a lot of this, apparently, was on the Thai Immigration computer.

He was being questioned by a high-ranking female officer, who asked him a lot of questions pertaining to his case. He had documentation regarding every possible aspect of the case, and some new documentation he brought back from his home country (Birth Certificate, Documents of Father's and family name, etc). Every objection that could have been raised, was answered by him with civility (greng-jai), documentation, and common logical reasoning.

The officer seemed to have a complete understanding of the inner workings of Thai Immigration, and must have confided in my friend about some individuals, and the nature of the life-destroying games they play to amuse themselves. My friend's story, and consistent manner finally swayed her, and after a very anxious hour and a half, she let him enter Thailand. Apparently here vindication has far-reaching effects due to her status and high-rank, and it will be difficult for anyone to use this 'mistaken identity' ploy against him in the future. I hope this is so.

Apparently, my friend feels that this is a major hurdle he has jumped over, and there shouldn't be any further trouble. He was already assured by workers in the next department in immigration he has to deal with, that if he clears his name (which is apparently what happened at the airport), then they will gladly provide him with a long-term non-resident visa.

I'm still being somewhat cautious about this, but am relieved at the turn of events. Hopefully things will go more smoothly from here on in.

Meanwhile we took his daughter to St. Louis Hospital in Bangkok. There we met doctors who would do a great service to their patients if they quit, and took up another trade. They were very interested in x-raying her lungs for TB, but didn't do a single liver test after being informed about the jaundice. We yanked her out of there, and took her to Bangkok Hospital Samui on Sunday, but there were no doctors there, or at the government hospital in Nathorn. This is entirely understandable as they were probably out playing with water. His daughter had a 40+ temperature and vomiting again last night, after being pronounced OK by the Doctors at St Louis on Friday. So, now we just have to find her a good pediatric doctor, with GI background, and hope all goes well with my friend at immigration. I know a good GI doctor in BKK, but I might make a post in the appropriate forum to ask for personal references, if you have any experience with this feel free to read my next post in the health section, or PM me.

When things are resolved 100%, I'll update this post. I do thank you for all your help. It turns out that the lawyers weren't needed after all. I hope it stays that way.

Thanks again,

Buzzer

[Lite Beer]

That is good news. Now he is back in Thailand it will be a lot easier for him.