Red-shirts Battle Blue-shirts In Pattaya

[terryp]

Scumbags are now leaving the hotel.

Cheering and behaving like idiots.

That's no way to describe our esteemed ASEAN visitors.

[Koo82]

just want to inform you that you can´t block a tank with taxis. They drive over it without problem.

barb-wire helps if enough of it, it makes a mess in the mechanic till everything is blocked. A taxi is no problem for a 40 year old tank.

Because the coup is the worse thing to destroy democracy, taxi drivers will block all streets, have their taxis exploded by gas tank and the reds will be in front of the tanks. With thousands of foreign reporters and amateur cameramen, any soldier dares to kill the reds?

[Dmitry]

Comrades!

so where exactly in pattaya the flash mob takes its place?

[eldar1]

Talking about now possibility of airlifting world leaders out...possibly only speculation by commentators on thailandoutlooktv.com.

I've been here for a few years and rarely see a helicopter - and just don't get it.

The cost of one helicopter would off-set the cost of a VIP caravan consisting of countless cars/motorcycles/etc. and further cost/inconvenience of motorists in and around Bangkok on a daily basis. And in this current case, the helicopters would come in handy for our stranded world leaders who have been invited for discussions this weekend.

I've heard from DStation that Abhisit went to Pattaya by helicopter yesterday and they used (or wanted to use) helicopter to move taxi at Victory Monument blocking traffic. It takes 30 minutes to move 1 taxi so they need 200 years to move all taxi having red drivers. These taxis will block tanks if Army wants to make a coup. Tank idea is outdated. It's not like 30 years ago. We are not afraid of tanks.

Not to rain on your little misguided parade, but tanks crush cars, they always have and always will, it's one of their primary features. So a line of cars is not going to stop a tank.

As for the whole disturbing the ASEAN meeting, well it makes thailand look like a fool, better to organize the next meeting in cambodia since they unlike thailand could actually organize some security.

I just wish there was a pro-democracy movement, that would certainly be welcome and needed in this country

[Koo82]

Koo, I refuse to waste any of my valuable time on you, but just so that I am clear. Are you saying that the reason the reds went into the hotel was to seek protection from the blues????????????

No intention of disrupting the summit, or of confronting Abhisit???????

You really are in cloud cuckoo land, dear.

Do you know who orders the blues to attack the reds? I know.

When government did not do anything to protect unarmed reds, they have the right to break into the resort to stop government from working.

[edwardmoulton]

Sling shots with bolts and fire bombs... Pretty much shows me what I needed to see about red shirt protestors.

You obviously didn't follow the tv and articles about the yellowshirts with guns shown on tv firing at people, or are you one of the baying mob on here kissing the arse of the incumbent government,it appears from a lot of posters here that it was perfectly ok for the yellows to do what they wanted but not for the reds,hypocrites the lot of them, espousing about democracy my arse your just a baying mob most of you and a lot just getting on the bandwagon.

COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT BETTER - WELL PUT - THERE SEEMS TO BE SO MANY OPS HERE WITH EXPERT COMMENT AND NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT - OSTRICH SYNDROME I THINK -- THEY SUPPORT THE YELLOW TERROR and now will support the new BLUE MOB - or is it that the PAD have just changed they shirt colour - ???? same methods of confrontation - same tactics -- quite possible -

I agree. I think it's a wanabee snob thing. People think it raises their social level when they are seen to support the establishment even when the establishment is wrong, undemocratic and couldn't give a dam_n about them. Just like those in the UK who buy the same tea as the Queen!

[flying]

The reds did not start the violence in Pattaya.

Can any say for certain who these guys in Blue or sometimes Black are?

PAD? Army?

[vicco]

If this forum was populated by rice farmers and small store owners from Northern Thailand, I think the posting would sound a lot different to a bunch of falangs living in their air-conditioned condos in Bankok. Have any of you people actually met anyone from rural Thailand?? This is a classic class struggle. According to the postings on here, everyone from both sides is a thug, so I guess it now depends on which thugs you wish to win in the end......the thugs representing the wealthy minority elites, or the thugs representing the tens of millions of disenfranchised Thai's who have been kept down by the feudal barons for generations. You call Thaksin a thug, but whatever he was, he did a hel_l of a lot more for the underprivliged in this country than anyone before or since.......thats why they are out there demanding change. I personally like the present PM.....he is educated, articulate and likely a genuinely decent guy.......I'm not so impressed by those around him. My wife has a few friends who are at the "Red" rally.....they are very decent, sincere, hardworking people.......and nobody is paying them anything to be there. Many of the reds there now, were not even Thaksin supporters when he was in power.....this has now become a coalition of groups who are just pissed off at the "old politics" and the elites who control them. They may collectively use Thaksin as a figurehead, and he may in turn use them to further his cause, but so what?

Oh and by the way.....it is their country and they will (and should) solve this their own way without advise from falangland. If its all so shit- hot back home......go there.

[mc2]

it seems Thaksin and the reds are playing this goverment for a fool .

thaksin 2 abhisit 0

[Koo82]

Not to rain on your little misguided parade, but tanks crush cars, they always have and always will, it's one of their primary features. So a line of cars is not going to stop a tank.

As for the whole disturbing the ASEAN meeting, well it makes thailand look like a fool, better to organize the next meeting in cambodia since they unlike thailand could actually organize some security.

I just wish there was a pro-democracy movement, that would certainly be welcome and needed in this country

Read my reply #303.

More to add: Taxi Radio Station manager has agreed with their 10,000 taxi red drivers to do something.

[snuggzzz]

SUMMIT CANCELLED................LEADERS OF FOREIGN COUNTRIES BEING EVACUATED BY HELICOPTER......STATE OF EMERGENCY IN PATTAYA DECLARED SOURCE....SKY NEWS UK

[RubbaJohnny]

GUIDE DOGS FOR THE BLIND APPEAL

In an infantilised society barely politically literate.

Have you noticed there are no real ideolgical parties just paid off cliques?

leadership is needed.

Be it yellow 'trads'

or red shirt mods or blue greaser

Seems a deficiency in guidance mentorship by mature people willing to LISTEn and engage with varying opinions.

Bhuddhadarma has been replaced by Chinese mercantilism, farang hedonism and plural albeit censored multi news source twitter net and sat TV

Thais knew trad values deference to PooYai in rural poverty.

As others comment wardrobe choices ltd while sadly locals tourists and people of all sides will suffer from unbuyable bad publicity 1st story BBC etc

Remedy

1 The big boys Army Privy Council Taksin and Abisit jointly appeal ,no chance.

2 Dusk Dawn curfew.(Doable) Men under 30 to report to home Ampur until further notice ,few granny rioters.

3 Alcohol ban until internationally monitored elections comleted for a fixed term like French or US presidency.

4 All TV net and Papers ONLY IN BLACK and WHITE until further notice FHM excepted,Economist in Thai free.

Plan B

Invite Khmers Chinese or Burmese to see if they could do a worse job on law and order.

Its days like this when Northern Ireland peace process,the succesful Dayton accords or Deklerk and Mandeals meetings show an impasse can be resolved by honest adults brokering a mutually advantageous compromise.

Notably none of the parties were Asian so no loss of face occured. Shows how lying giggling philosophy fails to allow dialogue.

I may be wrong all encouraged by US and UK govts and Gen Chastelaine a Canadian ?

In the Land of the Blind the one eyed man is ?

I wish you all a safe and peaceful Easter and Songkran and hope the fun and weather may allow are hosts to let their hair down and let sanook replace violence.

Having lived through a few coups hope for the best and prep for alternative no transport, petrol, telephone reception, ATMs net or airport or other exit contingency. Never has "self sufficency" seemed so prescient!

[mc2]

The reds did not start the violence in Pattaya.

Can any say for certain who these guys in Blue or sometimes Black are?

PAD? Army?

they are definitly hired thugs.

hired by whom ? my guess is hired and financed by

1. goverment

2. army or police

3. PAD

as to hide their involvement and responsibility

[Orac]

Talking about now possibility of airlifting world leaders out...possibly only speculation by commentators on thailandoutlooktv.com.

I've been here for a few years and rarely see a helicopter - and just don't get it.

The cost of one helicopter would off-set the cost of a VIP caravan consisting of countless cars/motorcycles/etc. and further cost/inconvenience of motorists in and around Bangkok on a daily basis. And in this current case, the helicopters would come in handy for our stranded world leaders who have been invited for discussions this weekend.

I've heard from DStation that Abhisit went to Pattaya by helicopter yesterday and they used (or wanted to use) helicopter to move taxi at Victory Monument blocking traffic. It takes 30 minutes to move 1 taxi so they need 200 years to move all taxi having red drivers. These taxis will block tanks if Army wants to make a coup. Tank idea is outdated. It's not like 30 years ago. We are not afraid of tanks.

Not to rain on your little misguided parade, but tanks crush cars, they always have and always will, it's one of their primary features. So a line of cars is not going to stop a tank.

As for the whole disturbing the ASEAN meeting, well it makes thailand look like a fool, better to organize the next meeting in cambodia since they unlike thailand could actually organize some security.

I just wish there was a pro-democracy movement, that would certainly be welcome and needed in this country

It would not be the damage to the taxis that would be the issue but the image of tanks on the street being opposed in some way - don't forget that the last coup was a relatively peaceful affair with no real opposition. After the humiliation of the ASEAN summit, to deploy tanks on the streets would be devastating to the image of Thailand if there is anything left at the moment!

[Livinginexile]

Thailand needs to return to democracy, in case some of you guys have forgotten what that means its; Majority rules!

If it takes a revolution to restore democracy then so be it.

"Revolution is born from the barrel of a gun"

It was all's "fair in love and war" when the yellow shirts waged a terrorist campaign.

But now the pro democracy movement is gaining momentum you are all shouting "foul"

Freedom will win in the end.

Long live democracy

Here, here. I'm totally amazed by the number of posts on here from expatriates who seem to have forgotten the definition of the word democracy.

Then again, lets not for a minute suggest that Thaksin Shinawatra was democratic leader who abided by all the principles of an open and fair democracy because that would be stretching the point to far.

At least some people seem to have kept to their senses.

So back to my original question from a couple of weeks ago.

Deal was kicked back in face (the olive branch with the empty stocking) leaving some people not happy but thinking there wasn't the impetus to act on it. Well it seems they were proved wrong on that one. We are witnessing the proof; it would not be stretching the imagination to say that stopping the Asean Summit was thrown down as a gauntlet.

My original question being where do the army stand on this?

Well polices' position fairly obvious considering they were given no back up to deal with the yellows.

PAD also seems to have backed down (Sondhi has been denouncing some of the "yellow" opposition as nothing to do with PAD).

According to rumour supposedly PAD's nose out of joint with army and coup backers, so not much of an allegiance there.

That leaves the army itself - big dilemma , as they know from the previous couple of years, not good to be seen taking power. Get someone else to do the dirty work. Presumably the "blue shirts" in Pattaya were some kind of pro govt military vigilante force. The problem is the army is perceived as having no legitimacy, a vigilante force certainly won't have legitimacy, so who can be seen to be backing the govt.?

Is there in fact the willpower within the army to provide backing let alone use force against the opposition. It would be seen as cementing the very alliance they have been keen to keep under wraps.

At the moment all I see is a govt becoming more isolated at each step along the line.

Smart move to initiate a possible crackdown when international cameras are turned on the country. Sometimes the thinking not as wacky as it looks.

Exellent post!!

It will be fasinating to watch the coming events unfold. Imagine being a fly on the wall in the army conference room right now!

But what about the armed forces "supreme commander"? that is where the real power lies. What is "his" stance at the moment?

Yes...big dilemma. The "commander is boxing himself into a very very dangerous corner.

Facinating

[Indi]

Red shirts announce they try to withdraw peacefully from RCliff Resort - can anyone confirm this ?

[Alboy301]

Seems to me many people are making judgements based on class. Just because the red-shirts are of lower class does not mean that they are any worse than the yellow shirts who caused mayhem. If anything perhaps the yellows are worse, because as supposedely better educated people they should know better. Thuggery is thuggery, it doesn't matter how you dress it up or try to justify it. However, while I generally support strong action from police, I think it would be wrong if they take a more heavy handed attitude against the reds, unless innocent lives are at risk or security forces are killed. The red-shirts already feel aggrieved, rightly or wrongly, but beating the crap out of them is only going to inflame the situation and maybe encourage more people to get involved. Remember, at the moment many of these people have nothing to lose!

[rafval]

If this forum was populated by rice farmers and small store owners from Northern Thailand, I think the posting would sound a lot different to a bunch of falangs living in their air-conditioned condos in Bankok. Have any of you people actually met anyone from rural Thailand??

I think most expats here have, its hard not to meet the female of the species in the bars of Nana or Pattaya, I have to say tho I have never discussed politics with any, or even had an intelligent conversation with any, not that I havent tried, I wouldnt like to comment on why that is but I have some ideas

Edited April 11, 2009 by rafval

[henryalleman]

Much to do about nothing compared with the riots at a G20 meeting.

In Pattaye its just a rumble of a few hooligans, there is more disruption after a European cup football.

Do you honestly believe that the participants of the ASEAN meeting are bothered with it? Its just some sideshow for them, that's all, they have seen much more worse.

This article I wrote yesterday, and nothing has changed my opinion yet.

Lets call a spade a spade.

The red shirts failed completely to organize a mass demonstration, and they did not succeeded any of their goals or targets

First they announced 1 million people, they could hardly get 100 000 and even that number came down rapidly after a few hours.

They proclaimed that they will demonstrate all over the country, also this failed.

They announced they will block the traffic in Bangkok completely by 20 000 taxis, also this failed, even that much that by standers pushed away the blocking taxis and burned red flags while the crowd was cheering GO AWAY. Did you see in YouTube how the taxis drove away to escape from the anger of the public. And I wrote PUBLIC not yellow shirts.

They announced that they will block the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya, they failed. I just saw some news covering on TV that the participants of the meeting where joking on the terrace of the hotel about the pathetic attempt of the red shirts to enter the hotel.

My wife is in Chiang Mai on a family visit, she did not see any demonstration, and not even see a red shirt. And this is in a so called stronghold of the red's.

They announced that ten thousands demonstrators from issan will come to Bangkok, where are they?

Its very clear that you didn't have the support from the Thai public nationwide, even worse they start to dislike you and showed it very clear on a few occasions.

So all red shirts fan in this forum accept your defeat with grace, lick your wounds of your shattered dreams and ego and move on. Don't blame others for your defeat, because you created your defeat by yourself.

And if you are genuine to the reforms you demanded, get rid of Thaksin and his cronies and start to work on new party with new young politicians and distance yourself from nitwits like Chalerm and Samak and do what any opposition party is doing in a democracy, oppose in the parliament and not on the streets. And use the time to the next election to reform your movement and make a decent political plan with a better future for the country you claim to love.

You learned a hard lesson so you should learn from it. And maybe this can even benefit you in the future not making the same mistakes.

So we can conclude that besides a few thousands hardcore red shirts, the public did not support you at all.

Even Thaksin, at last start to understand that his game is over, that's why he stopped his phone-ins and let his family flee the country.

THE GAME IS OVER, BECAUSE YOU PLAYED WITH THE WRONG CARDS AND LOST.

Kind regards and wish you the best

henry

Errr - not sure what channel you are watching but you seem to be a bit behind!

I wrote that comment yesterday April 10th.

[terryp]

I think Abasit would have done better to hold the ASEAN meetings in Jomtien bars that way they would have been nice & quiet

[Koo82]

When this number of people coming to call democracy back, the thick faced government who is representative for the ruling class still ignores people's opinion. They think we will be bored and will go home empty handed. Thai media still say we are not over 100,000 people.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Koo82

[henryalleman]

USA is not really considered as democracy by most Europeans... as there are just two parties with almost identical ideas.

Correct this is a general European opinion.

[edwardmoulton]

it seems Thaksin and the reds are playing this goverment for a fool .

thaksin 2 abhisit 0

Because this government is naive and ill-equipped to govern in every sense not to mention not even fairly elected. Whether we like it or not, he is far smarter and will always run rings around these numpties....

[flying]

The reds did not start the violence in Pattaya.

Can any say for certain who these guys in Blue or sometimes Black are?

PAD? Army?

they are definitly hired thugs.

hired by whom ? my guess is hired and financed by

1. goverment

2. army or police

3. PAD

as to hide their involvement and responsibility

Thanks it is pretty much what I thought.

You know if the cops or military want to help they should shoot those guys

(the violence instigators )with rubber bullets.

One thing I will say is the Reds have not been violent till approached by violence.

It is a big difference from what the TV cameras recorded at the Airport when PAD made their statement there. These recordings remain on You Tube even now.

[JacknDanny]

Koo, I refuse to waste any of my valuable time on you, but just so that I am clear. Are you saying that the reason the reds went into the hotel was to seek protection from the blues????????????

No intention of disrupting the summit, or of confronting Abhisit???????

You really are in cloud cuckoo land, dear.

Do you know who orders the blues to attack the reds? I know.

When government did not do anything to protect unarmed reds, they have the right to break into the resort to stop government from working.

So apart from contradicting your previous post, all the claptrap you have been saying about the yellows, its ok for your lot to do it

Double standards, Koo. You couldnt lie straight in bed.

When the reds are crushed like the cockroaches they are, dont come back here expecting any sympathy

[Africanteacher]

Because the coup is the worse thing to destroy democracy, taxi drivers will block all streets, have their taxis exploded by gas tank and the reds will be in front of the tanks. With thousands of foreign reporters and amateur cameramen, any soldier dares to kill the reds?

I think it's time for your medication. Your posts keep spooking me out.

[Orac]

Much to do about nothing compared with the riots at a G20 meeting.

In Pattaye its just a rumble of a few hooligans, there is more disruption after a European cup football.

Do you honestly believe that the participants of the ASEAN meeting are bothered with it? Its just some sideshow for them, that's all, they have seen much more worse.

This article I wrote yesterday, and nothing has changed my opinion yet.

Lets call a spade a spade.

The red shirts failed completely to organize a mass demonstration, and they did not succeeded any of their goals or targets

First they announced 1 million people, they could hardly get 100 000 and even that number came down rapidly after a few hours.

They proclaimed that they will demonstrate all over the country, also this failed.

They announced they will block the traffic in Bangkok completely by 20 000 taxis, also this failed, even that much that by standers pushed away the blocking taxis and burned red flags while the crowd was cheering GO AWAY. Did you see in YouTube how the taxis drove away to escape from the anger of the public. And I wrote PUBLIC not yellow shirts.

They announced that they will block the ASEAN meeting in Pattaya, they failed. I just saw some news covering on TV that the participants of the meeting where joking on the terrace of the hotel about the pathetic attempt of the red shirts to enter the hotel.

My wife is in Chiang Mai on a family visit, she did not see any demonstration, and not even see a red shirt. And this is in a so called stronghold of the red's.

They announced that ten thousands demonstrators from issan will come to Bangkok, where are they?

Its very clear that you didn't have the support from the Thai public nationwide, even worse they start to dislike you and showed it very clear on a few occasions.

So all red shirts fan in this forum accept your defeat with grace, lick your wounds of your shattered dreams and ego and move on. Don't blame others for your defeat, because you created your defeat by yourself.

And if you are genuine to the reforms you demanded, get rid of Thaksin and his cronies and start to work on new party with new young politicians and distance yourself from nitwits like Chalerm and Samak and do what any opposition party is doing in a democracy, oppose in the parliament and not on the streets. And use the time to the next election to reform your movement and make a decent political plan with a better future for the country you claim to love.

You learned a hard lesson so you should learn from it. And maybe this can even benefit you in the future not making the same mistakes.

So we can conclude that besides a few thousands hardcore red shirts, the public did not support you at all.

Even Thaksin, at last start to understand that his game is over, that's why he stopped his phone-ins and let his family flee the country.

THE GAME IS OVER, BECAUSE YOU PLAYED WITH THE WRONG CARDS AND LOST.

Kind regards and wish you the best

henry

Errr - not sure what channel you are watching but you seem to be a bit behind!

I wrote that comment yesterday April 10th.

Fair enough. In the light of recent events would you like to update it?

[CrossBones]

Well I have to say I support the reds, but not communism or any kind of dictatorship.

What Thaksin did was to challenge the higher classes, who are a dictatorship of their own. I think we can expect to see a civil war after the current monarchy ends. At that point my family and I will be moving to Singapore, which is like Bangkok but without the S**t.

[edwardmoulton]

The reds did not start the violence in Pattaya.

Can any say for certain who these guys in Blue or sometimes Black are?

PAD? Army?

they are definitly hired thugs.

hired by whom ? my guess is hired and financed by

1. goverment

2. army or police

3. PAD

as to hide their involvement and responsibility

Thanks it is pretty much what I thought.

You know if the cops or military want to help they should shoot those guys

(the violence instigators )with rubber bullets.

One thing I will say is the Reds have not been violent till approached by violence.

It is a big difference from what the TV cameras recorded at the Airport when PAD made their statement there. These recordings remain on You Tube even now.

Exactly and the difference is that the reds are (mostly) fighting an ideological cause (albeit the figurehead is not so much) whereas the yellows are purely about protecting wealth of an elite few.

[slim]

Enough is enough!! These people in red make me want to 'puke'. They have IQ's that can be counted on their fingers. When one backs a man who gives them 200 baht and promises them the ability to get government loans, THAT THEY MUST REPAY, you know they qualify for 'DIM-WIT' status. When there was controversy in the USA about the 2000 and 2004 general election, you DID NOT see the people who lost gathering in Washington D.C. and doing what these people in red are doing. Thailand is years off of being a Democratically run country, as greed and power are the only driving factors. Just think how selfish and stupid the previous PM was: 76 billion baht and not one baht DONATED to the good of the country: i.e. donations to schools; hosptials; environment; ad infinitum........if he had done this with no outside urging, he would still be PM. His days are numbered, but he doesn't get it still. Why don't his followers ever question how a policeman can become on of the richest men in the country........it sure wasn't by hard work......other elements were at work...don't kid yourself! I think it is now OK for the police and military to step in with VERY HEAVY HANDS!!!! To the reds: when you play with fire you will get burned....tum dii, die dii, tum chua, dii chua!!!!!

Well - this certainly sets a new standard in the 5 years I've been a member of ThaiVisa. Clearly written by a man who couldn't point to Thailand on a map yet still rants authoritatively on a subject he clearly knows absolutely nothing about.

Thaksin Shinawatra is revered by his supporters principally because he's is one of the few politicians who came to power on an agenda to help the people of Thailand and made good his promise. Thaksin will be forever remembered by his supporters as the man who introduced affordable healthcare to his people an act of far reaching and far sighted social reform.

Is he corrupt? Well - certainly influential PAD members exerted pressure on the PAD police to look into his business affairs and make a case against him where he was tried and found gulity by PAD judges.

People point at Thaksin and accuse him of being corrupt as if every other politician has the scruples of Ghandi.

My wife tells me that in most of Issan Thaksin is referred to as "Paw". This is Thai for father. Its usually reserved for monks and the King. For Thaksin to be referred to as such must be deeply worrying for the PAD.

At some time in the future the PAD will have to call new elections (unless they change the constitution). When those elections are held the PAD will lose. They will be defeated by Thaksin Shinawatra be they called Thai Ruk Thai, P.P.P.,U.D.D. - the name is not important - what is important is what the party stands for.

If the PAD cannot accept defeat and resort to their previous tactics of undermining the will of the people for a third time and forcing the newly elected party out of office then Thailand beware - because its staring into the abyss.

It wont be 100,000 red shirts marching on Bangkok - it'll be 1 million or more.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Lite Beer