News on visa detentions

[JT65]

Hi All

Just got back from Maesai two days ago. I thought I would tell of my experience to relieve a few peoples anxiety over some of the posts.  First I went to the office as usual and the only thing that was different was there was a photocopied sign in plain view that if you had been over the border at Maesai more than two times before you need to surrender photocopies of every page of your passport. I have more than two Maesai stamps but they were not consecutive. There were breaks with Singapore etc and my home country. The lady and gentleman at the head office were more than nice to me and extremely polite.  Well after getting my exit stamp it was off to the border bridge.  Went out with no problems of course. Once on the other side I bought some Johnny Walker and a couple of bottles of white from the lovely Thai lady in the duty free on the burmese side. Asked for her telephone number and for a date but was turned down as she already has a boyfriend. Oh well !!

Once back at the Thai side there was a long wait to get to one of the officers. There were not that many people but only two windows and they really took their time. I was worried.  Once my turn the officer inspected my last page and current visa and then gave me a good looking over. He then proceeded to every page. Once finished looked me over again and repeated the whole process another two times. I kept my cool but inside I was shitting myself. Anyway he never asked me one question , just stamped the passport and gave it back to me. I must have been with him more than 5 minutes but it seemed like 20 minutes.

The guy next to me was really getting a hard time. I am not sure but he looked like a long termer as he spoke decent Thai and was asked more than 3 times to clarify the address he as staying at in full details and finally told to write both his handphone and telephone number of guesthouse on the card. I have never seen this before. Maybe he was a 30 day hopper. He was still there when I left.

Now just so you know my last 12 months of stamps are all real with exits to other countries and a couple of border hops in different places. My concern was what I believed was a stamp from a "A" agent over a year ago when the Maesai border was closed. Anyway he didnt question it and Im fine.

One thing I will say , and Im sure I will be blasted for this , is that the attire of the Foreigners at both the Main Immigration Office and on the border left a lot to be desired. I wore a business shirt and some good pants and took a shoulder bag with my business documents, and references from Thai suppliers in it. I personally am off the belief that this type of apprearance helps in Thailand. When I was at the main office a busload of Foreigners turned up in shorts , open shirts and flip flops. Im 37 and these guys could have been my father. They should know better. One guy was wearing a bandana! With all the crackdowns happening I think that people should present themselves a bit better when going to borders and immigration points. Just my opinion

[dr_Pat_Pong]

One wonders if the unwashed poverty packers will read this. IF they do they will, as ever, take no notice. I am glad it all worked for you        

[DaveYo]

Opppppps, sorry fellas, I was not specific.  When I said that Immigrations will tell you which place, I meant which Immigration office closest to you that you can go to without having to leave and come back again etc.  

I was not referring to any agency.  I was talking about Immigrations themselves, for the fact is I am sure they have offices around that are spread out around the country.

I can understand the misconception of what I wrote, but as you well know agencies is not what I was indicating about.

The other part of what I said (do the run for you) I meant that they being the immigrations will tell you (yourself doing the run) to go to what ever office they specify that is closest to you to get your extensions etc due to your medical condition.

For example, say your living in Nahkon Sawan, they may say to either go to Bangkok or Chaing Mai etc. or to some place closest to your location to minimize any complications due to your medical condition and then you take it from there.

I hope this clears everything up concerning my previous post that got misunderstood.

:blues:  :cool:

[DaveYo]

Tax, medical conditions apply to everybody.   Men or women.  I believe there is no gender gap concerning the status of the foreigners when it comes to medical conditions.

As Dr. PP said, it is a neutral equation.

:blues: :laugh:  :cool:

[DaveYo]

Capoth, whew what a scathing note.  I have mentioned many times before agencies are not the way to go

Give me a break.   You guys rip me apart on mere spots of my mistyping.

Golly.

:blues:

[Roger13]

Apart from my outrageous behaviour, concerning my walk to the border every month (according to the  Immigration police i am not breaking any laws), i am harming nobody. I just wish these guys that do not even live in Thailand would stop preaching to me and others that do live here and do have stamps that allow us to live here. I do not care about what may happen in the future, if things change i will adapt, is there anybody that cannot grasp that?

i am harming nobody

You are so Arrogant!

Of course you are harming all future Tourists

who would have been able to get the 30 day

VOA - but because of people the likes of YOU

will not be able to use the Facility if / when it

is Cancelled.

Of course any number of 30 day visas are "Legal"

- that is how they currently are.

But they are there just now for the Convenience

of genuine Tourists - not for Idiots like you who are

spoiling such a Generous System.

But as you say you do not care what happens ...

You cannot be described as a Tourist

after living here for 3 years.

If you put Tourist on your TM card each time

maybe you will eventually end up in court

for fraudulent statements / answers.

Thailand does not need the likes of you.

Roger

PS

I thought you had to leave

the Kingdom for 24 hours to Legally get

your next 30 days - so maybe you are

not so legal afterall.

Maybe you and your friendly Immigration Officer

will both be arrested when someone in authority

sees your Exit and subsequent entry stamps

are both on the SAME day ...

[Bulldog]

Apart from my outrageous behaviour, concerning my walk to the border every month (according to the  Immigration police i am not breaking any laws), i am harming nobody. I just wish these guys that do not even live in Thailand would stop preaching to me and others that do live here and do have stamps that allow us to live here. I do not care about what may happen in the future, if things change i will adapt, is there anybody that cannot grasp that?

i am harming nobody

You are so Arrogant!

Of course you are harming all future Tourists

who would have been able to get the 30 day

VOA - but because of people the likes of YOU

will not be able to use the Facility if / when it

is Cancelled.

Of course any number of 30 day visas are "Legal"

- that is how they currently are.

But they are there just now for the Convenience

of genuine Tourists - not for Idiots like you who are

spoiling such a Generous System.

But as you say you do not care what happens ...

You cannot be described as a Tourist

after living here for 3 years.

If you put Tourist on your TM card each time

maybe you will eventually end up in court

for fraudulent statements / answers.

Thailand does not need the likes of you.

Roger

Roger, i think its you that's being arrogant.

[Sick Boy]

Once again Dr. PP blatantly shows his contempt for those not wedged to the max.

Athough rather fond of the stuff myself and not short of a few bob, having boat-loads of dosh is not the the main aspiration of many happy people on this planet.

Perhaps all members will need to own a Thai Privilege Card to subscribe to this forum in the future.

One would expect an administrator to a be little less flippant with their comments.

Live and Let Live.

SB

[Maigo6]

Roger

PS

I thought you had to leave

the Kingdom for 24 hours to Legally get

your next 30 days - so maybe you are

not so legal afterall.

Maybe you and your friendly Immigration Officer

will both be arrested when someone in authority

sees your Exit and subsequent entry stamps

are both on the SAME day ...

Edited by Roger13 on Oct. 11 2003,16:18

-------------------------------------------------

Roger you are Wrong!

[DaveYo]

Sickboy, Dr. PP is one of the wisest people in this forum and also is George.  I have a lot of respect to those two individuals and also to some others on this forum, and I won't be naming them.  I can say this that they have well over 100 posts in already.

For you to procrastinate someone you hardly know shows your total ignorance.  Understand.  So wise up bub.

People in this forum do have barbs being traded back and forth, and some complain that westerners are woo in the head, and some complain of the rules being harsh to them, but hey all what would Thailand be if it were not for foreigners coming and going?

Some of those there (In Thailand) do abuse the generous givings from the Government, and some blantantly violate rules by making and doing such to their advantage, and some simply make use of such rules to their advantage and do it legally.  OK.   Each one of us does things differently so what would the human race be if everybody did the same thing like a machine does>? day in and day out?

So I would like to say to the new members welcome to this forum, but be forwarned to pass judgments on other well established members here and get to know them first cause we all do like to help and this is our FAMILY!   Sure we do have our snipes and gripes from time to time, like bro and sis and ma and pa.  Bottom line is we all are a FAMILY.

Both woman and men alike, even tho we have never met each other in person, yet the atmosphere is there and this is what makes us tick like clockwork.

So lets cut the paper here and toss it aside and settle down a bit, and get that Thai massage done and lets spread the love around.

 :laugh:           :blues: :cool:

[DaveYo]

Hmm, just to also say that some of these well established members may not like me (those who have more posts than me), but I still respect them and is flexible with them too.

To Roger 13 spot on !!!!!!!!   Curious tho, what got everybodys gander going lately?

Hehehehehehehehe.   :blues:

[Maigo6]

Hmm, just to also say that some of these well established members may not like me (those who have more posts than me), but I still respect them and is flexible with them too.

To Roger 13 spot on !!!!!!!!   Curious tho, what got everybodys gander going lately?

Hehehehehehehehe.   :blues:

I wonder

[englishoak]

Wow censorship is real touchy here. Now i'm not sure what part of my mail deserved complete deletion ok mabe a couple of comments were irresponsible given this is Thailand but I sure would love to know so i don't repeat the mistake.  

Mabe the kind Dr P P or another aministrator would be so kind as to let me know either on the board or by mail.

thanks

[DaveYo]

You know Bulldog, Roger is not being arrogant.  In fact what he actually said is nice.  You don't know this guy at all.  

Not to mention, I tend to agree of what he said, and on the other hand even tho we don't like what others do, yet they do it legally, they are within their rights and are following the law as given.  At the same token some others have pointed out some good areas concerning such, so one has to think what makes sense.

Now if one wants to be unsensible, that is one thing, or if one wants to say something that makes sense that is another.

So Bulldog, what you said to Roger, I think you owe him an apology, cause you went way out of line to a more senior member who is over and above me.

Roger has brains and I am sure he too will stick up for someone if the issue is correct.  In fact Roger has given me some very valuable advice in the past and indeed saved me a headache for the future.

:blues:  ???

[Nooky bear]

I agree if you have a 100% legal Visa you have nothing to fear except the threat that they won't renew it next time.

I have been here 3 years 100% legal I am married to a Thai have a baby and work (legally) pay my taxes social security etc etc. Apparently next time I need to show that I have a spare 400,000 in the bank ( that I won't withdraw) even if we are hungry and really need it plus an income of 50,000 a month. Well that is not going to happen so my decision is Ok they don't want me here so I am making my plans to get out we will simply go to live where we are wanted and as for the Thai employees that I was forced to have they can go back to begging. They asked we what should they do I replied as immigration replied to me when I asked what about my wife and child who will support them the stock answer UP TO YOU

My stock reply <deleted> you too mate. I don't need the crap here so I'm off bye bye comes next july.

[jayenram]

I have plowed through the posts on this subject but still have a few questions concerning the “fake” entry stamps.

Are the stamps literally counterfeit, i.e. manufactured illegally? Or are they legitimate stamps that have been stolen from immigration? What about the Malaysian or Myanmar entry/exit stamps?

What happens to the immigration half of the TM card?

If the passport is “lost”, surely to obtain a new one you would need a police report to present to the embassy. In obtaining the police report, don’t the authorities check with immigration, particularly during the current crackdown?

Sorry if I’ve missed the answers to any of these questions.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Before you pack and leave, be aware that the present money requirement is 200,000 baht in a bank, or a combination of income and bankings equating to that. The new requirement is 400,000 baht, or a combination exactly as it is now. It is NOT 400,000 plus 50,000 per month. Definitely not. It is rumored that the legals like you will be ' grandfathered ' in July ie. you will only need the 200,000 cash or combination as it is now. It is only rumored, but the rumor comes from very credible sources. One word of advice Nook, approach it all with Jai Yen. You won't win by giving a free character assessment to an Immigration officer.      

[ChiangMaiThai]

One wonders if the unwashed poverty packers will read this. IF they do they will, as ever, take no notice. I am glad it all worked for you        

Unwashed poverty packers? You never cease to amaze me with your utter bias.

[Bulldog]

So Bulldog, what you said to Roger, I think you owe him an apology, cause you went way out of line to a more senior member who is over and above me.

Roger has brains and I am sure he too will stick up for someone if the issue is correct.  In fact Roger has given me some very valuable advice in the past and indeed saved me a headache for the future.

Dave yo,

Read Rogers post again, he is wrongly accusing a person of fraudulent bahaviour, his facts are all wrong. Now if you think that he can help you out with information, good for you. (judging by the posts i have read from you, i think you are just winding people up, you cannot be serious). If you get off on advice given by guys that dont know what they are talking about, then you need help pal.

Seniority in the ranks? This aint the Marines.

[Sick Boy]

Dave Yo,

I am sure Dr. Pat Pong has offered a great deal of good advice and will continue to do so.

I simply feel that comments such as "unwashed poverty packers" and "meagre, eked out existance" are not especially helpful coming from an administrator.

Or how about "offensive liitle mongrel", and "the guy is a turd"?

Some people could fail to see the wisdom in these remarks and be offended, don't you think?

There are many more little gems out there.

Sorry if you think I'm out of order here but surely one would be much happier to receive advice from a slightly more impartial stance.

Where does George come into this?

I'm not sure what you mean by "procrastinate" here Dave.

Anyway, Dave, keep em' coming. i find your posts often entertaining and look forward to further epics.

Regarding the issue, for what it's worth, yes, I feel that the new regulations are somewhat harsh and should be a little less cash oriented, but understandable really. The government have been under pressure for some time now to get it's ship in order and so they go about it the only way they know how. I will comply as usual and continue smiling.

If things do become unbearable then I will take my family elsewhere. I love this country with all it's quirks and frustrations and I hope to stay here happily for many years to come.

Later.

SB

[Sick Boy]

One word of advice Nook, approach it all with Jai Yen. You won't win by giving a free character assessment to an Immigration officer.

Excellent advice Dr. You see, Dave, credit where credit's due.

[DaveYo]

Bulldog, I read Rogers post on section 34.   Of course you might say that this is arrogant, and quite frankly he is right in a lot of aspects on his statement.

The person he is talking about has been in Thailand for over 3 years and continues to use a 30 day tourist visa!   Now think about it.  What Roger is saying by now he should be under the 1 year visa extensions etc, or even possibly if by luck have a permanent residency, and having himself registered both income and banking wise.  By using the 30 day visa stamps, he technically is doing it legit as per se by the government, but at same time he is skirting the true intent of 30 day tourist visas, thus avoiding more scrutiny and reporting requirements as dictated by Thai Law..

This is also the other reason of the comments by some senior Administrators which indicate gross abuse of discretion by the people who stay in Thailand, thus making it that much harder for the others who do it all in compliance.  Of course one is complying as per se legit, but using it to a different means to defeat the true purpose of its intent.

This is what the Government is pissed off about by its abuse of discretion.   So therefore Roger is correct by his assessment, and of course the other gentleman is correct by his assessment.  So it is a draw for the current time being.  Equal and and a tie so to speak.

So of course some emotions come into play and therefore of his comments, which some may say it is arrogant.  To me it is not arrogant, it is free speech and opinion.  The same applies to the other gentleman.

Now do you understand?

It is not a surprise to any around the world.   When a law is placed down, many of course will try to water it down and look for ways to circumvent its true intent and it is a natural instinct of people to do this.   The end result is once the loop holes become a glaring point, that is when the clamps are applied to such law because of its abuse of discretion, and it hurts everybody else.

Bottom line, mostly no one wins, except the few who can do such at the end.

:blues: ???

[Maigo6]

PS

I thought you had to leave

the Kingdom for 24 hours to Legally get

your next 30 days - so maybe you are

not so legal afterall.

Maybe you and your friendly Immigration Officer

will both be arrested when someone in authority

sees your Exit and subsequent entry stamps

are both on the SAME day ...

Edited by Roger13 on Oct. 11 2003,16:18

==========================================

Dave Yo, do you see anything wrong in the above statement?

I agree with Bulldog, you cannot be serious in your postings, in fact, i think you are Bud!

[Mr Average]

If the use of consecutive 30-day tourist visas is to be considered an abuse, then it logically follows that Thailand and its legal constitution is in some way being abused.

This seems to me to be rather odd since the use of 30-day tourist visas is entirely legal and no where in the immigration laws is it stated that there is an limit to the number of times which these visas may be used.  

The only point where an abuse may be considered to be taking place is to the visa holder's pocket (ie, his finances). If an individual chooses to live next to the Malaysian border and renews his visa every month for little or no cost, then with clear justification he may feel it is those who spend large sums of money on longterm visas who are being abused.

[Sick Boy]

It is the system which is as fault here, not those who use it. If the authorities feel that the system is being openly abused then they should ammend it. As long as one doesn't engage in employment and makes the effort to travel to the border every 30 days then what's the problem? Many people would consider themselves tourists regardless of their length of stay. The fact that they don't wear a bum-bag or buy the junk littering the sidewalks is irrelevant.

I can't see how this spoils it for anyone as Roger 13 seems to suggest. Greedy business operators issuing fake visa stamps to unsuspecting tourists has done that. The arrest of Hambali highlighted the failures in an already slack system. One should assume that change is coming but as usual it's still a quagmire of rumours, speculation and misinformation.

Any news of changes which will ensure our safety and security will, of course, be embraced.

[ChiangMaiThai]

It is the system which is as fault here, not those who use it. If the authorities feel that the system is being openly abused then they should ammend it. As long as one doesn't engage in employment and makes the effort to travel to the border every 30 days then what's the problem? Many people would consider themselves tourists regardless of their length of stay. The fact that they don't wear a bum-bag or buy the junk littering the sidewalks is irrelevant.

I can't see how this spoils it for anyone as Roger 13 seems to suggest. Greedy business operators issuing fake visa stamps to unsuspecting tourists has done that. The arrest of Hambali highlighted the failures in an already slack system. One should assume that change is coming but as usual it's still a quagmire of rumours, speculation and misinformation.

Any news of changes which will ensure our safety and security will, of course, be embraced.

Have to agree with MC Hammer/Sick Boy on this one. If immigration truly feels that the system is being abused all they have to do is begin enforcing a limit on the number of consecutive 30 day stamps. So maybe that will happen soon. I think it is the right thing to do. But until that day, anyone who stays long term (as a tourist) on 30 day stamps can not be said to be abusing the system.

[george]

As I have posted in another thread:

It will soon be an end to the 30 day runners. There is ongoing high level discussions that the 30 days "automatic" entry will be only 15 days in the future. So it's about time to have a proper visa.

Don't ask me for my sources of this information, I can't reveal them right now for obvious reasons. The fact is that most *genuine* tourists only stays in Thailand for an average week, have made the need for the 30 day stamp less important.

Be prepared for the 15 days in the near future.

[Roger13]

PS

I thought you had to leave

the Kingdom for 24 hours to Legally get

your next 30 days - so maybe you are

not so legal afterall.

Maybe you and your friendly Immigration Officer

will both be arrested when someone in authority

sees your Exit and subsequent entry stamps

are both on the SAME day ...

Hi Dr

Am I wrong about this?

I did think I had read elsewhere

in another thread that STRICTLY

speaking - the LAW requires that

you stay out 24 hours?

Can you put me straight please?

Roger

[Roger13]

I can't see how this spoils it for anyone as Roger 13 seems to suggest.

Hi Sick Boy,

Sorry if I did not explain myself well ...

If through mis-use by defacto residents

the 30 day VOA is withdrawn it will mean that all future

Tourists will be obliged to first apply for

a Tourist Visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate.

Frankly - I did think the implication to be obvious.

Jai Di cannot claim he is harming nobody.

THAT is why I consider him to be Arrogant.

Roger

[ChiangMaiThai]

I can't see how this spoils it for anyone as Roger 13 seems to suggest.

Hi Sick Boy,

Sorry if I did not explain myself well ...

If through mis-use by defacto residents

the 30 day VOA is withdrawn it will mean that all future

Tourists will be obliged to first apply for

a Tourist Visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate.

Frankly - I did think the implication to be obvious.

Jai Di cannot claim he is harming nobody.

THAT is why I consider him to be Arrogant.

Roger

If 30 day de-facto residents are seen to be abusing the system, immigration need only to put a limit on consecutve visas granted. People like you who use them only sometimes should not be affected. Simple.