Any point in coming to thailand ?

[Tango7]

I used to live and work in Thailand and wish to return to do the same.

I wish to teach, study for my Masters of Education via distance learning and maybe earn some extra money via exporting things.

I have a Thai girlfriend whom I wish to marry and I wish to settle down there and make Thailand my home.

Now, I've only just noticed all this chat about visas, farangs having problems staying etc, but the long and short of it is this:

Can I come to Thailand on a 3 month non-immigrant visa and find a job? Will I then have or be allowed to have, my visa changed to the correct visa type to allow me to stay for the duration of my contract assuming I have a letter of employment etc? Is Thailand going to make farang's lives difficult to the point that it's just not worth it, or are we seeing a lot of chest expanding but nothing terribly serious happen ? Is there anyone out there who truly understands the real nature of these changes? Are people panicing unnecessarily or is this really the beginning of something much bigger?

Personally, I don't care about myself being told to leave, but I do worry about my getting married, and then having my world turned upside down because of some silly visa situation.

[Nam Kao]

Tango

 I am in a similar situation but already married to a Thai girl

and 10MBt.

 I would say give it a try BUT dont invest in anything in

Thailand - house/business etc.  AND keep the backdoor

open in case you have to leave Thailand - that meaning

dont burn any bridges and keep some backup positions as

far as work goes in your home country.

If things go south in LOS i'll go to Cambodia, none of this

crap there. I wont go back to the US.

But remember you already attained the best Thailand has to

offer - The Thai girl. I love them and thank God i never ended

up married and miserable to a lady falang.

good luck

Nam

[caughtintheact]

If you come back to Thailand to get married, have a job lined up first.  It's not so much a matter of officials huffing and puffing, as you say, more a matter of trying to keep out those who are likely to cause trouble (terrorists, criminals, etc), or those who have no visible means of support.  If you come over here with some savings based on the expectation of finding a job, then you are going high risk.  On the other hand if you meet the requirements for staying here, and comply with the laws, you should not have any problems. Depending on your age you might want to consider taking your bride to be to your home country (if you really want to get married right away) until you accumulate enough assets and income to meet all the requirements here. In the end it's of course your decision, but if you can't do things according to the law,   take Nam Kao's advice.

[Khun ?]

Bring some cash and live happily ever after. Certainly a

person with your education and aspirations you have been

very successful in the past and should be able to afford the

long stay requirements. Long stay tourist make poor residents.

It is in the news almost every day now. Take out may be the way to go. I would not advise giving up a good career to end up competing for a few hundred baht a day exporting against the big guys. Just making ends meet in Thailand is no better than it is anywhere else and do you really need the worry of where your next pay check is going to come from.

GOOD LUCK

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Tango what is your nationality ?

[Tango7]

British.

I lived and worked in Thailand for 8 years before and really loved the place...never really settled back down here and really want to get back to working in BKK but this information all sounds rather worrying.

I've a degree, teaching qualification, 8 years teaching experience, a professional computing qualification, 4 years professional computing experience and now want to live and work there for a minimum of two years whilst doing my M.Ed.

I can't get a job lined up without an interview and so I need to be there to get the job. So, am I going to be allowed to enter on a 3 month non-imm visa and, once getting a position, have it changed?

I hope to be able to work for language schools until I find a perm job I like and pays enough. Is this becoming "impossible" with the visa regulations.

i.e I would need to leave and re-enter everytime my visa expires until I get a full time job with visa supplied.

Is it really so serious ??

[Butterfly]

British.

I lived and worked in Thailand for 8 years before and really loved the place...never really settled back down here and really want to get back to working in BKK but this information all sounds rather worrying.

I've a degree, teaching qualification, 8 years teaching experience, a professional computing qualification, 4 years professional computing experience and now want to live and work there for a minimum of two years whilst doing my M.Ed.

I can't get a job lined up without an interview and so I need to be there to get the job. So, am I going to be allowed to enter on a 3 month non-imm visa and, once getting a position, have it changed?

I hope to be able to work for language schools until I find a perm job I like and pays enough. Is this becoming "impossible" with the visa regulations.

i.e I would need to leave and re-enter everytime my visa expires until I get a full time job with visa supplied.

Is it really so serious ??

The place has probably changed a lot since you last stay there. Coming here for 2 or 3 months is fine, but staying longer might be more difficult. Also 10m bath is fine but that can only last 10 years if you are not going to do anything. A lot of people get burned out after staying here too long.

[taxexile]

A lot of people get burned out after staying here too long.

those people would get burned out wherever they stayed

[Butterfly]

A lot of people get burned out after staying here too long.

those people would get burned out wherever they stayed

No true. why should they ? I think some environment are more toxic than others.

[taxexile]

how exactly do you mean "toxic"?

[Nam Kao]

I can live off just the interest of 10M baht upcountry.

1000 baht a day is huge. I just plan to box full time and

live like the locals. A quiet life of violence.

regards

nam

[Guest IT Manager]

LOL. Yes sometimes captain moonface makes life difficult until his little friends realise (a long way away IMHO) that it is mostly long term foreign residents paying the rent on the piles they built to wash some of the problems away from the money they used to buy the Bentley.

It doesn't seem to have occured to anyone, that very few thais actually rent high value properties. If they can afford to pay 35K per month rent, they buy or build one themselves, so foreigners tend to be the bunnies paying the big bucks in rent.

See how captain moonface views the approaches of his little chums saying "goodness where will we find another dummie to rent the shack when you send all the foreign husbands and fathers packing"?

A mathemetician he may be, but a chess player he sure as shitt isn't. ???

[Butterfly]

I can live off just the interest of 10M baht upcountry.

1000 baht a day is huge. I just plan to box full time and

live like the locals. A quiet life of violence.

regards

nam

If you can survive on less than 300 Bath per day and live like a Thai, I guess you can stay forever here. But don't forget, interests on 10m is not big either (2% or 3% of 10m is not much) and REAL inflation will be more than 2% or 3%

Soon enough, maybe 10 years, your 10m will not be worth much

[Butterfly]

LOL. Yes sometimes captain moonface makes life difficult until his little friends realise (a long way away IMHO) that it is mostly long term foreign residents paying the rent on the piles they built to wash some of the problems away from the money they used to buy the Bentley.

It doesn't seem to have occured to anyone, that very few thais actually rent high value properties. If they can afford to pay 35K per month rent, they buy or build one themselves, so foreigners tend to be the bunnies paying the big bucks in rent.

See how captain moonface views the approaches of his little chums saying "goodness where will we find another dummie to rent the shack when you send all the foreign husbands and fathers packing"?

A mathemetician he may be, but a chess player he sure as shitt isn't. ???

Sounds like Real Estate is going to be a bargain soon in Thailand. I am afraid not.

[Guest IT Manager]

It is more than possible to live on under 20,000 baht per month, be relatively comfortable and support a wife and 2 kids. The issue is, do you want to be in that bracket. The other point, at the end of the day, when Captain Moonface decides it's time to throw away the people who pay taxes year after year, and support the wife/kids, where do they go, and in the short term, why do you want to be responsible.

IMHO the captain is actually saying the women here are whores and just look at all the foreigners living with them to prove it. He forgets about the women who we meet at places other than his officers' bars and brothels, which is likely about the only places he knows about where we can meet Thai women. He doesn't realise, that we actuially have brains and needs which are not (unlike his police chums), satisfied in Karaoke Joints and middle rate whore houses, and though many are happy with those women, it is not true of everyone, or IMHO even the majority of us.

I for one will continue as long as I can here, then go to Cambodia, so my Thai son can visit us when he has a weekend off university, (which we will be paying for), and where he will not (need or want) to cheat, unlike Khun Moonfaces son, who recently disported himself with a 40 million baht wristwatch, just to show the paucity of taste which defines his entire herd, and the lack of vision and common sense, so typical of the chinese chappy and his 900 million baht maid and her daily trips to the tallad in a 30 baht tuk tuk.

Far be it from me to note his platitudes at the polls about being "for the poor". My son calls his party Thai yed Thai,  and in my opinion, my son got it very right there.

At the end of the day, however his educational policy (keep them dumb, keep them down), is the way he will become the leader of the new age dynasty of Asian Politic.

Please God I am not around to view his final screwing of the Thai body politic in the name of the omnipotent buck.

Thankfully, I'm not the only one the little cretin makes to feel ill when I see his conniving countenance on page 3 of the Thai fish and chip wrapper, and I don't just mean foreigners.

[Nam Kao]

>>>10m is not big either (2% or 3% of 10m is not much)

 I found some annuities paying 6-8%. Thats should wash

out inflation.  I am in no hurry to go, I have the golden

handcuffs on (job paying 160K+ /year).  But someday as

the US economy tanks further I'll be layed off and i'll send

for my non-imm O (if they still have them, if not plan B cambodia-

good boxing there too) and take off.

Lets see what the ThaiHateFalang oops I mean ThaiRakThai

party rolls out,  

[Nam Kao]

>>>>If you can survive on less than 300 Bath per day and live like a Thai,

 Where my house is the thais make 40-60 baht a day.

 All farming area, but beautiful and quiet, and mint girls.

A thai making 300 baht a day there would be super rich.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Tango    apply for a multi Non-Immigrant B visa at the Thai Consulate at Hull. Purpose is for investment. The Consulate has a website.

[Khun ?]

Make your money in the west live it in the east. This will provide for more than a fish head feast.

[Butterfly]

>>>10m is not big either (2% or 3% of 10m is not much)

 I found some annuities paying 6-8%. Thats should wash

out inflation.  I am in no hurry to go, I have the golden

handcuffs on (job paying 160K+ /year).  But someday as

the US economy tanks further I'll be layed off and i'll send

for my non-imm O (if they still have them, if not plan B cambodia-

good boxing there too) and take off.

Lets see what the ThaiHateFalang oops I mean ThaiRakThai

party rolls out,  

8% annuity per year ? don't think so. Maybe years ago but not today. Make sure there no hidden management cost (usual 1% or 3% per year)

With 3% (best case) it would yield: 300,000 bath per year or 25,000 bath per month

Ok to live in the jungle, but what if you have to leave the country ? you will never be able to return to "civilization" after this.

[TizMe]

With 3% (best case)

Anyone that cant get a better than 3% per annum really isn't trying very hard or isn't too bright.

[en184]

Alot of thai companies pay dividends in the range of 6-8%, so you would have 600-800k per year to live ooff.

Alternatively, some US companies also pay high dividends, Altria group for example.  

Perhaps buy a basket of high dividend stocks and a couple of rental properties.  

This would give you a monthly income stream.  For example, small studios in bangkok can still be purchased for just over the 1m bhat mark.  If you had 5 of these, you would have an income of 50k/month, and perhaps 20k month in dividends.

[plachon]

If I had 10 M baht to invest, I sure as #### wouldn't be investing more than 10 % of that nest egg in a Thai financial institution. Sure, play the gee-gees on the Thai stock market for another year or two, but be ready to transfer it mighty quick, when the excreta hits the fan, post wake-up call for ITMan's Cap'n NaaDuangjai's little escapade in fantasea land.

[Nam Kao]

Thanks for the advice, appreciate

>>>Ok to live in the jungle, but what if you have to leave the country ? you will never be able to return to "civilization" after this.

       

   The US is going to helll in a handbasket.

 Like John Wayne said - "Git while the gittin is good"

regards

nam

[Khun ?]

Enter

[Thaiquila]

I am very interested in the subject matter of how to make a relatively small amount of money, say 10 million baht, or preferably more, last perhaps a lifetime in Thailand. The key is not to just spend the money, but to INVEST it very wisely and strategically. For some people, annuities are interesting, but usually not so for YOUNGER retirees, as the higher rates only go to older folks (who the companies are betting are leaving the earth sooner).

My research has shown that there are PROVEN, predictable, safe, time-tested strategies that will continue to provide income AND protect from inflation.

The key to both systems is having the discipline to carry through with them and not break on the restrictions, and also the LUCK of the timing of the market as to when you quite working.

These systems are not radical ideas. They are mainstream investment advice from established companies like Vanguard in the US. The one part of that the many will find surprising is that systems rely on continuing to be heavily in the STOCK MARKET for life, even in old age.

What am I talking about, exactly?

System One, SET WITHDRAWAL RATE:

Take the 10 million baht.

Put 50 percent in interest bearing things like bonds, corporate bonds, GNMA bonds, etc. Not low yielding money market funds. Yes, there is principle risk on the net asset value when interest rates rise, but this is lifetime hold money, and over time, that is not a big issue.

Put the other 50 percent in the STOCK MARKET. A mix of very diversified, low expense, index funds. Note that the stock market segment historically goes up 9 percent a year. This bigger growth potential is the INFLATION PROTECTION segment of the plan.

Withdrawls: Twice a year, SELL either the stocks or the bonds at a SET PERCENTAGE, and always to keep the BALANCE as close as possible to 50 percent fixed income and 50 percent stock. In other words, if your stocks have gone up a lot during that time period, you sell stocks to keep the asset mix in balance.

Studies have shown that if you withdraw FIVE PERCENT of your total assets per year using this system, you have a 100 percent of never running out of money. Here is the catch. If you start the system at a time in history when the stock market is in a long bear trend, that FIVE PERCENT, will represent less money for years, and unless you started with enough, it would be hard to have the discipline to keep the withdraws so low. The upside of that, is if your timing is lucky, that FIVE PERCENT will translate into increasing income, the base of money will increase over the years, as it should eventually based on historical stock market performance.

But all is not lost for the risk takers among you (as I know almost all of you are, ha ha). You can take the risk of taking SIX or even SEVEN percent a year of the total. However, any amount over FIVE increases the risk that you will totally deplete your capital, so going over SIX is not for the faint of heart.

This is not a radical idea. Any veterans who have tried this system over a 10 - 20 year period?

The other, alternative, system can make sense for those with much more than 10 million baht to start. You invest your money the same way as above (50 percent in fixed, and 50 percent in stocks). However, in year one you take only THREE percent of the total. Then each year, there is a very small inflation increment increase in the percentage, so that your income increases steadily but slowly over the years. Contrary to intution, this system has a historical 25 percent chance of wiping you out before you die. This is why. If you live long enough, the percentages will get higher and higher (easily over the 7 percent risk area, as above). So that eventually you be getting into taking out too much money to support the plan.

Anyway, I thought I would put this out there. As in any situation, the more money the better, but sometimes there are creative ways to do things with less money that we would like.

Comments appreciated.

[pnustedt]

I'm in a similar situation to yourself, Thaiquila. Saving to spend my days in Thailand.

I don't much fancy the idea of an annuity, although some of my savings are tied up in old pension schemes, the rules of which imply that I will have to have one.

My research indicates that money invested since the beginning of the century (and thru' the depression of the '20s) that for every 1,000 per month you want to withdraw you should have 240,000 capital to draw on (for a person retiring at 60).

I am not yet decided where I will investing - at present I am heavily into mutual funds, some local shares and cash. Maybe a similar mix will see me thru'.

If you are younger I would be more cautious. Also a younger person is more likely to become bored on a tight budget - as you say the more dosh the better. If you feel that you won't have enough and you can stay earning a few more years and save more then I would.

I guess it depends on what you're gonna be doing, I'll be living off the land in Isaan - not everyone's cup of tea but the figures work out better. I certainly wouldn't want to be stranded there without any money!

[Butterfly]

With 3% (best case)

Anyone that cant get a better than 3% per annum really isn't trying very hard or isn't too bright.

Someone who claim they can get more than 3% easily are talking out their ass and are clueless. I have a bar to sell for them and it can make more than 3% annually for sure

[Butterfly]

Alot of thai companies pay dividends in the range of 6-8%, so you would have 600-800k per year to live ooff.

Alternatively, some US companies also pay high dividends, Altria group for example.  

Perhaps buy a basket of high dividend stocks and a couple of rental properties.  

This would give you a monthly income stream.  For example, small studios in bangkok can still be purchased for just over the 1m bhat mark.  If you had 5 of these, you would have an income of 50k/month, and perhaps 20k month in dividends.

not anymore. Have you seen those prices. The yields on those dividends went from 15% to 5% or 6% in less than a year. These are dividend payments, not annuity. They are not guarantee and only happen if the growth continues. When the growth stops or the revenues fall, dividends are suspended and omitted. Not good for a long term strategy. Bonds is the only safe vehicule here if you want "regular" annuity.

No, US companies do not pay shit as dividends. Their prices can be so high, that the "real" dividend yield can be shit (less than 5% for sure). Some Multual fund companies do pay high dividend during the good times, but we are not there today. Also people confuse past dividend yield with current dividend yield. If a fund or stock is reported to pay 5% or 8% dividend, this is usually based on past dividend (average or last year) but not current. Usually the market react pretty quickly to those things and the adjustment is there before you have a chance to buy the stock or the fund. A fund also fluctuate in prices, therefore "advertised" dividend yields are usually based on a price that is different from the one you pay for the fund.

[Butterfly]

ACG,AOF,CRF,EMD,GHI,CNN,MFV,CHI,CHY,RNP,RPF,RFI and several more  pay anywhere from 8 to 10% just do your research. Look up ETF funds or fixed income. 10 Mil Barts should get you around U.S. $2,000 a month. If this is your only income for a U.S. citizen taxes on these should be low. Still this is not much if you are talking 20 years to live on. Treasuries pay above 5% long term bond and should be going up soon which no taxes are paid on them. Japanese love the foreign treasuries. Really better to pay a broker 1% and let him manage your account but make sure you tell him you want to keep a minimum amount of fixed income coming in at all times with capital preservation the foremost priority. Think twice if you are looking at offshore accounts to avoid taxes from what I have seen these are very hard to manage and get your money when you need it and very high expenses (not nearly worth the headache). Brokers are sales men also so getting you into funds they get discounts on are high on their list. If I knew 20 years ago what I know now I could of quit work some years back. Spent 80% of my money on booze and women the rest I wasted.    Good luck

dude, do your research. you are talking out of your ass.

Some Multual fund companies do pay high dividend during the good times, but we are not there today. Also people confuse past dividend yield with current dividend yield. If a fund or stock is reported to pay 5% or 8% dividend, this is usually based on past dividend (average or last year) but not current. Usually the market react pretty quickly to those things and the adjustment is there before you have a chance to buy the stock or the fund. A fund also fluctuate in prices, therefore "advertised" dividend yields are usually based on a price that is different from the one you pay for the fund.

So try again with your "8% or 10%" dividend yield. They don't exist. A well known marketing techniques for brokers and mutual fund companies to lure "suckers" into buying their funds.

Also, bear in mind, that dividends are not annuities and therefore are not guarantee.

Also, bonds can also be risky. Buying TB for a 5% coupon does not mean you will GET 5% yield. Again bond prices fluctuate, so if interests fall (like we have now at 3% or 4% depending on the countries), bond prices will go up for those 5% coupon, so you can bet your ass that your ACTUAL yield will be 3% NOT 5%

again, learn to read the fine prints before investing, you might learn something. Everything else is "makerting" BS to lure "clueless" investors who still believe in Santa Clauss and think all funds pay 10% dividends