Ever Noticed How B/g's Pray Before Starting Work?

[camerata]

erm... do I believe you or HH Dalai Lama?

I met HH Dalai Lama in India years ago and got lectures on Buddhism. As fara as I remember there ARE Gods in Buddhism, according to the teachers.

Yidams and they can, and do intervene in the world as most people know it. Also Buddhas and Boddhisatvas can too.

Brahma is the original Buddhist god.

Well, two points here. First, Mahayana and Vajrayana (Tibetan Buddhism) are schools developed long after the historical Buddha died. All those buddhas and bodhisattvas have no mention in the original Pali Canon, other than the "future buddha." The second point is that the devas mentioned in the Pali Canon (including Brahma) are not gods in the sense of the English word, they are simply beings like you and me who have moved to a different realm. Brahma is considered to be under the great delusion that he created the world, but in one story he has to refer a difficult question to Sakyamuni, so he isn't so smart. As far as Theravada Buddhism goes, there is no God.

[tijnebijn]

Wow are you trolling or something ....

Buddha is not a God no ,

Although they say it is a religion , it really is not , it is a philosophy a way of living .

The Buddha is the man who has showed common people how to walk the walk .

In Buddhism its a fact that there is no such thing as a God ,

erm... do I believe you or HH Dalai Lama?

I met HH Dalai Lama in India years ago and got lectures on Buddhism. As fara as I remember there ARE Gods in Buddhism, according to the teachers.

Yidams and they can, and do intervene in the world as most people know it. Also Buddhas and Boddhisatvas can too.

Brahma is the original Buddhist god.

I don't doubt what HH the Dalai lama has to say , although you can't be sure that what he said

was the right interpretation on your side .

Tibetan Buddhism is much different then any other of its kind , they have a lot of Tibetan aspects in it as Thais do .

But I'm pretty sure that the name 'GOD ' as we know it isn't in Gautama's dictionary as to say .

But yes there are a lot of stories about angels and higher entities which some may describe as a GOD .

But the Buddha himself for example did not talk about it , cause some things in the mystery are not

useful to talk about at all , when they do not give any positive learning effect , so he ignored those questions .

So basically I meant there is no single God in the practise of Buddhism , at least thats what I understood .

What is the definition of GOD ?

Then give me the meaning of Buddhism ?

Edited June 1, 2009 by tijnebijn

[Neeranam]

Unlike the masters of the universe who screwed us all for their own satisfaction and our money, the hard working ladies are giving satisfaction to their clients at a reasonable rate and looking after their families. They are very moral people who are true to themselves

What a load of codswallop. Hard working, looking after their families

[bonobo]

Bible[/i] (and I would asume the Torah) does not prohibit prostitution as well. It merely states in one Old Testament verse that one cannot use income derived from prostitution to pay for one's holy vows. There is even an interpretation that thsi is only aimed at male prostitutes, and that females may in fact use income thus earned to pay their vows.

I have no idea about the Koran and what it might have decreed on prostitution, or what Hinduism says about it (although the blatant sexuality on many of the temples would lead one to wonder), but if at least three major religions have no expressed prohibition on prostitution, why all the "moral" attacks on it?

Just curious.

I think you know the answer. Because it is being looked at from a Christian angle. A religion built on guilt.

And that is my point.  The Bible does not prohibit it.  

Most major modern cultures tend to frown on prostitution if not make it illegal.  But neither the Torah or Bible prohibit it, nor does the Pali Canon, from what camerata writes.  Jesus was close to Mary Magdalene, a woman many beleive was a prostitute.

So I wonder where the big deal about it started.  

[tijnebijn]

erm... do I believe you or HH Dalai Lama?

I met HH Dalai Lama in India years ago and got lectures on Buddhism. As fara as I remember there ARE Gods in Buddhism, according to the teachers.

Yidams and they can, and do intervene in the world as most people know it. Also Buddhas and Boddhisatvas can too.

Brahma is the original Buddhist god.

Well, two points here. First, Mahayana and Vajrayana (Tibetan Buddhism) are schools developed long after the historical Buddha died. All those buddhas and bodhisattvas have no mention in the original Pali Canon, other than the "future buddha." The second point is that the devas mentioned in the Pali Canon (including Brahma) are not gods in the sense of the English word, they are simply beings like you and me who have moved to a different realm. Brahma is considered to be under the great delusion that he created the world, but in one story he has to refer a difficult question to Sakyamuni, so he isn't so smart. As far as Theravada Buddhism goes, there is no God.

Good post !

This is what I wanted to point out , but you did it with much better precision than I did .

So basically this is what I understood of it also .

[villagefarang]

Soldiers pray before killing others. Boxers pray before punching someone's lights out. Gamblers pray before loosing all their money. Competitors of every variety pray to win at the expense of their rivals. God's are biased and easily manipulated, it would seem.

There's no need to mock - ok maybe just maybe you are right and 4 billion others are wrong.

Of course I mock the masses who pray to Gods to help them do evil to others. That is a mock-worthy endeavor in my mind. The uncivilized masses are seldom right. They are simply in the majority.

[Geekfreaklover]

Bible[/i] (and I would asume the Torah) does not prohibit prostitution as well. It merely states in one Old Testament verse that one cannot use income derived from prostitution to pay for one's holy vows. There is even an interpretation that thsi is only aimed at male prostitutes, and that females may in fact use income thus earned to pay their vows.

I have no idea about the Koran and what it might have decreed on prostitution, or what Hinduism says about it (although the blatant sexuality on many of the temples would lead one to wonder), but if at least three major religions have no expressed prohibition on prostitution, why all the "moral" attacks on it?

Just curious.

I think you know the answer. Because it is being looked at from a Christian angle. A religion built on guilt.

And that is my point. The Bible does not prohibit it.

Most major modern cultures tend to frown on prostitution if not make it illegal. But neither the Torah or Bible prohibit it, nor does the Pali Canon, from what camerata writes. Jesus was close to Mary Magdalene, a woman many beleive was a prostitute.

So I wonder where the big deal about it started.

I don't really know the answer but would hazzard a guess that the Victorians may have had something to do with it being, as they were, of a prudery disposition and ruling over a large proportion of the world.

[njpski]

Unlike the masters of the universe who screwed us all for their own satisfaction and our money, the hard working ladies are giving satisfaction to their clients at a reasonable rate and looking after their families. They are very moral people who are true to themselves

What a load of codswallop. Hard working, looking after their families

They work hard, they send money back to their families,

Oops,

sorry, they send your money back to their families.

if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, male and female!

They certainly don't lie back and think of England - they actually put some effort into aiding the elderly and infirm achieve their goal.

[Neeranam]

erm... do I believe you or HH Dalai Lama?

I met HH Dalai Lama in India years ago and got lectures on Buddhism. As fara as I remember there ARE Gods in Buddhism, according to the teachers.

Yidams and they can, and do intervene in the world as most people know it. Also Buddhas and Boddhisatvas can too.

Brahma is the original Buddhist god.

Well, two points here. First, Mahayana and Vajrayana (Tibetan Buddhism) are schools developed long after the historical Buddha died. All those buddhas and bodhisattvas have no mention in the original Pali Canon, other than the "future buddha." The second point is that the devas mentioned in the Pali Canon (including Brahma) are not gods in the sense of the English word, they are simply beings like you and me who have moved to a different realm. Brahma is considered to be under the great delusion that he created the world, but in one story he has to refer a difficult question to Sakyamuni, so he isn't so smart. As far as Theravada Buddhism goes, there is no God.

The Buddha was inspired by Brahma, who definitely is a God.

[Neeranam]

If it was easy, everyone would be doing it, male and female!

Rubbish.

[Livinginexile]

Unlike the masters of the universe who screwed us all for their own satisfaction and our money, the hard working ladies are giving satisfaction to their clients at a reasonable rate and looking after their families. They are very moral people who are true to themselves

What a load of codswallop. Hard working, looking after their families

They work hard, they send money back to their families,

Oops,

sorry, they send your money back to their families.

if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, male and female!

They certainly don't lie back and think of England - they actually put some effort into aiding the elderly and infirm achieve their goal.

And I thought denial was a river in Africa

Seems it's alive and well here on TV.

[patklang]

so many bargirls so few customers! maybe they praying for bargirl quotas

ive yet to meet a bargirl who had a boyfriend .

its like a sex tourist hooking up w a hi so thai chineeswe

You better chat with mr and mrs pig then.Many many bar girls and many many many gogo dancers have thai bf,but we call them pimps.

onlt 24 posts suggest you are very wet behind the ears my good man.

I would say about 80% have Thai boyfriends. And thats being generous. They are mostly motorcycle taxi drivers. Both from Isaan. Both in the service industry and both offer cheap rides in the city.

Quite a few leave the bf upcountry too.The most dangerous bf are the ones who work in the sex industry

the bar boys and the guys who let gay men back scuttle them for money.Much bigger risk for aids

[tw25rw]

The nearest I ever came to a fall out with my girl was when I bought her a can of malt milk drink that she likes from 7-11 and she opened it and left it as an offering..

She doesn't buy red fanta, but gets some sickly red syrup in concentrated form and offers that. I think it's the colour/sweetness that matters more than helping Coca Cola Corp.

She often leaves shot glasses of water which I joking call tequila for Buddha as well.

[camerata]

The Buddha was inspired by Brahma, who definitely is a God.

He is the Hindu God of creation, not a Buddhist God of creation. According to legend - if one believes the legend - it was Brahma who persuaded the Buddha to teach the Dharma. But he is simply considered temporary chief honcho of the "Brahma realm." In zillions of lifetimes, you or I could be Brahma - according to Buddhism.

[camerata]

I don't really know the answer but would hazzard a guess that the Victorians may have had something to do with it being, as they were, of a prudery disposition and ruling over a large proportion of the world.

This seems to have been at least partly the case in Thailand. See Sexuality in Old Siam was much more open and diverse than we think.

"The belief that Thai women in the old days had to preserve their virginity until their wedding day is false..."

[harrry]

Why would it be hypocritical?

Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical?

What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval?

Do you know what "Hypocritical" means?

There is nothing wrong with what the girls do as long as they do it honestly as most of them do. For them to show respect to the beliefs as they were taught by their families is comendible not hypocritical.

Edited June 1, 2009 by harrry

[Livinginexile]

Why would it be hypocritical?

Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical?

What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval?

Do you know what "Hypocritical" means?

There is nothing wrong with what the girls do as long as they do it honestly as most of them do. For them to show respect to the beliefs as they were taught by their families is comendible not hypocritical.

Would you allow your daughter to do this type of work if she did it "honestly"? or is it just for Thai girls?

Double standards sir...

THAT'S hypocritical!

[harrry]

Why would it be hypocritical?

Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical?

What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval?

Do you know what "Hypocritical" means?

There is nothing wrong with what the girls do as long as they do it honestly as most of them do. For them to show respect to the beliefs as they were taught by their families is comendible not hypocritical.

Would you allow your daughter to do this type of work if she did it "honestly"? or is it just for Thai girls?

Double standards sir...

THAT'S hypocritical!

I take it you either have not got daughters or they will not talk to you as the idea of a parent not allowing a daughter to do something is abhorent. In this century young women make ther own decisions, I respect that and if my daughter made a decision I respect that and hope that she would consult me for advise.

Despots with the idea that they can control the world are fortunately an endagered species.

[camerata]

Some offensive posts have been deleted. Let's stick to the topic of praying as hypocrisy and have less of the personal remarks.

[Mosha]

Why should anyone be barred from praying. I bet even the tax collectors do it.

[timinchina]

The Buddha would not have approved of working girls. He was not a sex man - despite raising a son and being an absent father for many years.

One of the Buddha's most devoted followers was a courtesan whom he never criticized. He seemed more concerned about men who spend a lot of time with "harlots."

In Christianity Mary Magdalene was also said to be a "Working girl"!

[Ulysses G.]

Why would it be hypocritical?

Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical?

What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval?

Do you know what "Hypocritical" means?

There is nothing wrong with what the girls do as long as they do it honestly as most of them do. For them to show respect to the beliefs as they were taught by their families is comendible not hypocritical.

Would you allow your daughter to do this type of work if she did it "honestly"? or is it just for Thai girls?

Double standards sir...

THAT'S hypocritical!

What do you mean "allow'? It is not anyone's choice but hers.

[mahtin]

Back to the colour red.

My wife devotes more space to Rama V (Chulalongkorn) than Buddha.

She always asks me to get red roses for the King's picture by the wall altar.

Apparently that revered monarch favoured them.

She also offers some sticky red drink.

I think the main reason the BGs do it is because everyone else does.

[tw25rw]

Some believe that Jesus was exposed to Buddhism during his years travelling the silk route. In those pre-Islamic days, modern Kashmir and Afghanistan were strongly Buddhist and people were more likely to meet different holy men and have many influences on their travels, whereas modern Judaism, Islam and Christianity are more set in concrete.

[SMEEERE]

Why would it be hypocritical?

Praying for good fortune whilst selling their body for money! would this be classed as hypocritical?

What do you think The Lord Buddha's take on this would be? Approval?

Do you know what "Hypocritical" means?

There is nothing wrong with what the girls do as long as they do it honestly as most of them do. For them to show respect to the beliefs as they were taught by their families is comendible not hypocritical.

"There is nothing wrong with what the girls do as long as they do it honestly as most of them do. For them to show respect to the beliefs as they were taught by their families is comendible not hypocritical." Im afraid RESPECT and HONESTLY are mispaced words in this sentance,and i have to say that asking for forgiveness prior to commiting a sin/or for assisatnce to commit one is hypocritical in my opinion, i think with these types honesty and respect flew out the window when greed flew in, that will unfortunatly apply to the parents also, money number one,.

[camerata]

Im afraid RESPECT and HONESTLY are mispaced words in this sentance,and i have to say that asking for forgiveness prior to commiting a sin/or for assisatnce to commit one is hypocritical in my opinion, i think with these types honesty and respect flew out the window when greed flew in, that will unfortunatly apply to the parents also, money number one,.

No one said anything about sinning or asking for forgiveness. This is just projecting Christian ideas onto Buddhism. In Buddhism, if you do something bad, you make merit to compensate.

[ilovefashionTV]

I know a girl who done the full dance in Golden Bar opposite Nana toprey to Buddha as in with the full dress on, and she prayed to get out of her predicament.

2 weeks later a 25 yo very rich guy on his first visit to Thailand came, fell in love with her and within a matter of weeks took her to his country on a 3 month fiance visa.

After getting married she then went back with 2 of her friends all dressed up and done a 10 minute dance to thank Buddha.

This is what she told me i didnt see it but she most certainly thinks it was all down to doing this dance as to why she got out of her situation ..... and from what i gather the guy is almost perfect for a BG to take advantage of.

[473geo]

There is certainly nothing christian about continually knocking a group of people because you may disagree with their employment choice.....

Quite frankly I doubt they give a thought to what you pray for or how you are employed.........

Just let them make the best of their lives eh......have some of you people nothing better to do than deride people who are not awarded the free choice of response to your insipid comments......

Cowardly and uncharitable...certainly not condoned by christians or Bhuddist

Edited June 1, 2009 by 473geo

[Mosha]

The Buddha would not have approved of working girls. He was not a sex man - despite raising a son and being an absent father for many years.

One of the Buddha's most devoted followers was a courtesan whom he never criticized. He seemed more concerned about men who spend a lot of time with "harlots."

In Christianity Mary Magdalene was also said to be a "Working girl"!

Going OT now, but that was probably part of the conspiracy to demonise her. She also may have been a priestess, and certainly was the author of one of the gnostic gospels.

[scorecard]

Sitting at a bar on the ground floor of Nana Plaza the other week I noticed that all the bar girls stopped and prayed at their respective little alters.

Not just some of them...ALL of them.

Now this somewhat seemed hypocritical to me and got me wondering just what it is they are actually praying for.

Are they praying for:

1) God to help them get out of this awefull mess they've found themselves in? (unlikely)

2) God to give them a rich jai dee customer tonight?

3) God to bless their family and friends?

4) Non of the above they just pray out of habit.

What else could they be praying for?

An educated guess would be number 1 and 3 and most probably subsitute God for Lord Buddha.

I hope there praying came true and you obliged by number 2 . Somehow i doubt it with the content of your posts

I asked some Thai colleagues, the agreed answer was:

- Some will be praying for forgiveness for doing naughty things,

- Some will be praying for good luck and money,

and they ALL participate in the prayers because it would be unthinkable to put oneself outside of the praying group.