Immigration Crackdown On Border Runners

[teelac888]

i feel sorry for people who have a lot of money invested in a country that tightens the cord around your neck every opportunity they get.

[Rainmon]

A poor country needs all the jobs it can get, expats, tourists, foreign investment all create jobs. Why discourage ANY of those?

I'm not completely in favour of this ban, but Thailand wants to get more upmarket with tourism. I suspect that many Taiwanese, Japanese, Korean and Singaporean shopaholics who spend 4 days in Thailand contribute a lot more to the economy than the hordes of visa runners who stay for months to experience the real Thailand.

I have been reading this thread for a while today, I think the post about increasing revenue for the airport and the quote above about shopaholics and Thailand wanting more upscale tourists makes the most sense. Tourists can come and get a free 30 day visa if they arrive at the airport, have a nice holiday and go home. If someone wants to stay longer get a type O visa from your home country good for one year (offered in the UK and USA not sure about other countries) get the Education visa for 25,000 baht if ur under 50 or cannot afford to transfer 800,000 baht to a Thai bank for the retirement visa, or get a business visa and work permit if you have a job here, there are several legit options. Have a nice day! next question...

Edited June 2, 2009 by Rainmon

[Gary A]

i feel sorry for people who have a lot of money invested in a country that tightens the cord around your neck every opportunity they get.

The number one rule for expats in Thailand and has always been is to NEVER spend more money here than you can afford to walk away from. Some of the farang speculators have made a pile of money and some of the speculators who got in too late are going to get hurt.

[vahack]

HEADS UP!!! THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE WIND!

Consider how the Thai BAHT is mysteriously staying strong against the Dollar, EURO and GBP against all of the political unrest in LOS.

Consider that Chinese are now given 120 day visas

Consider that present government is removing land ownership loopholes for foreignors.

Consider foreign business investment is increasingly being required to provide much more for much less in return while countries like China with their increasing economic power are required the minimum to invest with more benefits.

Consider you are a temporary guest and tourist in the eyes of the Thai government regardless of your visa, marital or other status.

Thailand has gone over 2,000 years without the need for outsiders and Thai's can live well enough off of hte land that if they isolated themselves from the rest of the world and their economies they could still survive.

ya interesting and insightful.

definitely a unique view from everything else in this thread.

u mean the value of the baht isnt tied to farang happiness? lol

[luvU2much500THB]

Luck im a 3 year overstayer

yeah, visa for what

You just need to know a cop if anything goes unplanned lol

[marty147]

Call me cynical but I always assumed that the border run regulations were a means of supporting the infrastructure that was set up to accommodate them. How many mini-buses make the trip to Ranong every day (and other places). How much does Burma make in visa fees - all of those $10s soon add up. What about the boat owners that take everyone across the estuary? The restuarants that serve you lunch on the way back.

Reducing the 30 days limit to 15 certainly helped them increase their income in the short term but they're essentially saying now that they don't want any more border runners so this lucrative income stream will all come to a crashing halt - another knee jerk reaction with no thought for the consequences??

[ubonjoe]

Consider that Chinese are now given 120 day visas

That has not been proven to be true.

It is impossible unless the immigration act is changed.

I think they were confusing the 4 months of free visas with one single visa.

Chinese have to get a visa before they arrive or get a visa on arrival that is only good for 15 days.

[buckeye]

Quick question does the 15day t visa max 4 crossings start on June 1st or does it also include the 15 day crossings you already have in your passport. Thanks

[david555]

Tourist visas are indeed very expensive, even if you don't need to pay the consulate for one.

Best case is if you have a friendly Thai consulate in your town -- then you'd waste 5+ hours filling out the papers, taking photos, commuting, picking up the visa. For most people with real jobs in the west, that's over $150 (USD) right there for a *free* visa. If you mail in, it's a bit less, but takes time and is uncertain.

For most people, you need to make a visa trip that's 2 days with travel / lodging (e.g. $150 to Laos) + lost time on the order of $500 or more (assuming your time is valued at only $10/h).

Anybody can see this, that's why "free visa" is nothing more than a gimmick.

No idea of the process in the States but in the UK you can apply by post, so it takes no more than a few minutes out of your life, and you don't need to be living anywhere near the consulate.

It's the same. A few minutes to complete the application, get a few photos, I get extra because I travel alot, and off to the post office. Anyway, it's probably less than $100.00 for a tourist visa and extension so one can stay 90 days. If one can't afford that then, maybe it's a good idea to stay home and work instead of taking a holiday.

I always come with Triple entry visa from TH. consulate in Antwerp and pay around 70 € and ready in to 3 days with picking up myself, it give me possibility for 270 days stay (3 times 60+30 )

I only have to look for the cheapest flight ( calculate the costs for the solutions here in ASIA and deduct them from the price) ONLY HASSLE I FIND IS THE long light-journey

[sassienie]

I just spent 5-6 million Baht building a house in Chiang Rai and paying the employees way above

most do, gave them Mayday, laborday off with pay. You know what my thanks is?

Clipping me 150Baht when I use my ATM card from the USA. Well will live of my money in local banks

included the 400,000 I kept. Will go every year from now on to my embassy

spend the $30 and give it to them. Amazing Thailand. Let be honest the Government is a joke here.

Well, if you have just used your own money to build a house in Thailand, than you have committed an illegal act. Plus it seems you expect some sort of gratitude from the Thais, for something that they would prefer you not to do.

Yourself and many others like you, just cant seem to grasp the situation and ignorant of what it’s all about.

This is just the sort of thing that the Thai authorities are trying to stamp out here and your openness about it can only increase the tightening up of Immigration laws for those who are living here legitimately.

Edited June 2, 2009 by sassienie

[falkenbach]

just a friendly reminder - from around october at all immigration offices at nong kai border curious tourist can find a printed list of the countries, which residents should apply for tourist visa at consulate of origin country or nearest to country of origin. europe, usa, oz and nz are inculded ;-)

so yes, its so right to make things as ordered! get visa at your country, visit thailand for 1-3 months, then please, get a message and come back home, clearly longer stay hardly welcomed here ;-) small gaps will be easy to fix i guess, recall old rule for having airplane ticket back to somewhere except nearby countries in case if you arrive by air; make holders of the ed visas actually to learn something; and last but not least -the lucky ones with "real" jobs - i guess only few of you will be in demand if english-speaking customers disappear ;-)

[klikster]

I know of no other country in the world where you can run to the border and get another stamp therefore allowing you to stay in the country practically indefinitely.

The authorities are only doing what they should have done years ago.

I do. Chile. 90 days on any border crossing.

[david555]

LOS is truely : land of stupids

what is next...

falong no want anymole hele, falang go home, stay home

Hey .Do not say so.That is not true.I dont know if Thai people Love You,but they do Love me.

Very true , ain't them greeting us ALL the time with WELCOOOOME.. !! And HANDUUUUME MAN...., SEXYYY man.....! So what is the problem

[ubonjoe]

I just spent 5-6 million Baht building a house in Chiang Rai and paying the employees way above

most do, gave them Mayday, laborday off with pay. You know what my thanks is?

Clipping me 150Baht when I use my ATM card from the USA. Well will live of my money in local banks

included the 400,000 I kept. Will go every year from now on to my embassy

spend the $30 and give it to them. Amazing Thailand. Let be honest the Government is a joke here.

Well, if you have just used your own money to build a house in Thailand, than you have committed an illegal act. Plus it seems you expect some sort of gratitude from the Thais, for something that they would prefer you not to do.

Yourself and many others like you, just cant seem to grasp the situation and ignorant of what it's all about.

This is just the sort of thing that the Thai authorities are trying to stamp out here and your openness about it can only increase the tightening up of Immigration laws for those who are living here legitimately.

You can legally build all the houses you want. You just can't own the land.

You can lease the land or do it in several other ways that are perfectly legal.

[philcobkk]

BREAKING NEWS:

Immigration crackdown on border runners

BANGKOK (thaivisa.com) -- Thai Immigration Bureau has issued a new regulation to be enforced from today, June 1, 2009.

In a crackdown on foreigners who regularly abuse the tourist exemption rule of getting 15 days stay at border entry points, the Immigration Bureau has confirmed and informed thaivisa.com of the following new regulation:

A foreigner who has entered the kingdom four (4) consecutive times on 15 days tourist exemption stamps, will not be allowed to leave the country and reenter Thailand. The only option is to exit Thailand and re-enter via an international airport, which will allow a further 30 day stay.

Thaivisa.com has today confirmed the new regulations with the Immigration checkpoints in Pong Nam Ron and Aranyaprathet at the Cambodian border. We have also got confirmation from bus visa run companies that the new regulations are enforced from today June 1, 2009. Immigration checkpoints bordering Laos, Myanmar and Malaysia are expected to enforce the regulation shortly.

The new rules does not affect holders of visas issued abroad. Foreigners are advised to apply for a Tourist visas or Non-Immigrant visas at a Royal Thai Embassy or consulate outside Thailand instead of abusing the 15 day exemption rule.

As usual, holders of Tourist visas will be given 60 days stay while Non-Immigrant visa holders will be allowed 90 days stay.

-- thaivisa.com 2009-06-01

This is absolutely a correct thing to do. I wish all those farangs who complain about everything here would go back to where they came from. Ofcourse everybody is entitled to an opinion whereever they live. The Thai immigration laws are amongst the most liberal in the world. Where else can you live as a tourist for years and cross borders for five minutes and re-enter endlessly. Then one wonders what all those shady types around here live off in the first place.

Can you see a Thai citizen living as a tourist in Britain or the US for years doing nothing? It is hardly possible for them even to get a tourist visa for a two week holiday in other countries.

And this American idiot who thinks he saved the world because he built a house here, what a moron. He also has the stommach to say he paid his workers and wow gave them labour day off, wow what a benefactor. Maybe he thinks the Thai government should decorated him too and build a statue of him.

As long as you are in order you have no problems here and why people expect that they should be able to do whatever they want when they are guests here I do not understand.

And this money spending. What money do these people spend and where? The money spent in bars of various sorts does not benefit Thailand at all. Maximum it benefits shady foreigners who run such establishments taking advantage of underpriviliged people to work for them at abnormally low salaries. They could never run such places in the countries they come from as it would be illegal. Do these people pay tax? Hardly. At most they pay the absolute minimum required by law and the rest goes in to their pockets tax free.

So please stop this complaining about everything and since most of you complainers do nothing here from morning to evening you have ample time to sort out your visa problems in proper manners.

[philcobkk]

LOS is truely : land of stupids

what is next...

falong no want anymole hele, falang go home, stay home

Hey .Do not say so.That is not true.I dont know if Thai people Love You,but they do Love me.

Very true , ain't them greeting us ALL the time with WELCOOOOME.. !! And HANDUUUUME MAN...., SEXYYY man.....! So what is the problem

I think you are the first one who should go home. I might even chip in for your one way ticket.

[samran]

A poor country needs all the jobs it can get, expats, tourists, foreign investment all create jobs. Why discourage ANY of those?

cause a country needs to stop scraping the bottom of the barrel sometime...

Well said, hit the nail right on the head.

Visa runners and backpackers contribute very little legitimately to the Thai economy and are more of a burden than an asset.

If these people were substantially of any benefit towards the economy of Thailand, than the authorities would not be creating hurdles and difficulties for those staying here.

I am sure that the powers that be have done their sums and concluded that the cost of policing these people, administration and controlling illegal activities far out ways any contributions if any, these travellers are making towards the country.

I agree Thailand does not need to scrape the bottom of the barrel, but I am not sure that includes backpackers. A few years ago Australia did a survey and found that, whist backpacker did not conribute much per head, collectively they made up about 20% of Australia's tourist dollars. Not sure how that would pan out in Thailand.

The problem here is the numbers of people who expect to live here full time when they cannot meet visa requirements and many of whom flount the law by working illegally. I have no figures, but I suspect these are a small number, buit they are a problem for Thaiand.

yep that study was done by tourism Australia. They target backpackers, basically because they usually come from well off, educated middle class backgrounds, spend time in OZ working (legally) therefore being productive and ploughing their earnings (and taxes) back into Australia. They are also educated, so they tend to meet areas where Australia has temporary skill shortages.

The reason they are also targeted is that they come back when they are older, usually with their families, and spend more. It was found, as a group, backpackers spent more per head than most any other type of tourist. As such, Australia has bought out the welcome mat for backpackers, with extendable 1 to 2 year working holiday visas.

Interestingly, at the same time as these initiatives for backpackers, Australia basically scrapped its retirement visa system. You can be sure that the boys and girls at treasury and immigration crunched the numbers and saw that retirees make very little net contribution to Australia.

Anyway, back on topic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer that if you have family here, married, or with kids, you should have an unquestionable right to live and work here, with a clear and defined path to residency and citizenship. I think that visa rules that are restrictive, in this regard the 40K per month requirement is a distraction at best. In most cases, you need more than this anyway to even consider providing your family a basic and decent standard of living, in most parts of thailand (though some will disagree).

I also beleive if you have a business idea, or want to invest, then there should be paths to do so, which match worlds best practice in say HK or Singapore. I'm happy enought for every punter to come in and build his beer bar in Phuket or Patters, cause I know the free market will take care of most of the bad ones. I don't need visa rules to do that for me. For every 50 failed beer bar owners, there will be one smart investor, doing something really good for Thailand.

The thing that gets me about these threads is the sense of entitlement that most people have to live in Thailand. There is almost the sense of "I big white man with a few bucks in pockets. These little brown people should be happy and grateful that big white man spreads about a few pennies".

My take on it is this: If you have family here, you have every right to stay. That is a fundamental human right. If you have an idea to be productive, create value, directly employ people and pay taxes to the Thai revenue department , then you are welcome. But if you are neither of these, then you have no right to simply stay here and make no net contribution to society.

Edited June 2, 2009 by samran

[ovenman]

My take on it is this: If you have family here, you have every right to stay. That is a fundamental human right. If you have an idea to be productive, and create value for Thailand, then you are welcome. But if you are neither of these, then you have no right to simply stay here and make no net contribution to society.

So in your opinion, should all single retirees be sent packing (since they don't fit either of your "welcome in Thailand" categories)?

[samran]

My take on it is this: If you have family here, you have every right to stay. That is a fundamental human right. If you have an idea to be productive, and create value for Thailand, then you are welcome. But if you are neither of these, then you have no right to simply stay here and make no net contribution to society.

So in your opinion, should all single retirees be sent packing (since they don't fit either of your "welcome in Thailand" categories)?

yep.

thailand needs people to help it grow. Not stay still. Pretty standard in most parts of the developed world.

I also should add:

before you critise Thailand, pretend that you aren't your current nationality for a sec, look to see how it is to difficult it is to migrate independently back to your home country. Kinda puts Thailand in perspective.

Edited June 2, 2009 by samran

[david555]

disagree with all complaining!

ever considered the rules when a Thai goes to Europe? Even as a tourist it is difficult to enter without....etc..

Try to see this without your personal biased view.

Apparently I am not the only one which disagree with you.

Some years ago,I brought a Thai woman,who I had met a couple of monthts earlier,to Sweden.She got workpermit,free education i Swedish,social security card and so on.This in the first months of her stay!After 3 years,she could become swedish citizen,had she wanted that.Rare enough for Thais in europ,she opted for moving back to Thailand after ca 6 months!Thats different from my situation here after 20 years,I can not do anything of the above and still have to report every 3 months.So why do I Stay here? Not because I like the regulations or the immigrationofficers,but in spite of them;there are so many other good things here.But from my experience,it is easier for a Thai to go to Sweden (and be fully "incorperated") than it is for a Swed to do the same in Thailand!

very simple to understand and to agree with: if they can not give even most of those "benefits" as medical care ,pension and such ......TO their own people.....!!

[sriracha john]

So in your opinion, should all single retirees be sent packing

yep.

Edited June 2, 2009 by sriracha john

[notime]

Sensible move, very understanding, doesn't affect me ... oh yeah ... ******** profanity deleted -mario2008

It's another little step in the farcical and never-ending WAR on FOREIGNERS who are an easy target to kick. Many Thais think: What do all these foreigners doing here? Why are they here? They must be making money and sending home that otherwise be Thai. They conspire against Thailand and control everything. No wonder things are bad and can only get better if we kick these evil Farangs out. The immigration minister is trying to make himself worthy by showing to deal with those "problems".

When we will see a turn around from this stand and at least a little move towards making it easier for foreigners here whether they are on business, retired or holidaying? When will we see some leadership from the top of the government making a stand against the xenophobia and ignorance? For the 3 years I've lived here I didn't see any such positive move.

[Pierrot]

It appears that many people staying here in Thailand have given VERY little thought to their futures. People who have very little money and are living hand to mouth are crying about visa problems. The question is what are you going to do when you are getting old and can no longer work for peanuts, scam, steal or beg enough money to survive? Is it possible that the Thai government has considered this and is trying to get rid of people who will become a liability?

Things have changed very little for retirees who HAVE planned for their futures. I worked very hard for what little I have and am quite comfortable. I intend to live the rest of my life here in Thailand in relative comfort because I knew that someday I would get old and would need to depend on my pensions to survive. Young people here need to think about this.

My take on it is this: If you have family here, you have every right to stay. That is a fundamental human right. If you have an idea to be productive, create value, directly employ people and pay taxes to the Thai revenue department , then you are welcome. But if you are neither of these, then you have no right to simply stay here and make no net contribution to society.

In short, if you want to stay and live in Thailand, plan ahead to be a "profitable" migrant and you will be welcomed.

Now, for the western trash (my words, not the posters's I quote) whose only plan is "to work for peanuts, scam, steal or beg enough money to survive", you won't be missed.

Maybe some people will found these words too harsh but for the benefit of people who intend to live with their family in Thailand, they should be said.

[Seneque]

When living in Thailand, never ask yrself WHY ... and you'll live for ever happy !

WHY ? will u ask ? and my answer is : because they never do it themselves ... and life goes on

[david555]

LOS is truely : land of stupids

what is next...

falong no want anymole hele, falang go home, stay home

Hey .Do not say so.That is not true.I dont know if Thai people Love You,but they do Love me.

Very true , ain't them greeting us ALL the time with WELCOOOOME.. !! And HANDUUUUME MAN...., SEXYYY man.....! So what is the problem

I think you are the first one who should go home. I might even chip in for your one way ticket.

THX for you're offer, i like to accept it.... , but can i choose the exact date... ? (airline you can choose yourself ..) do not boater the return ticket (with triple entry visa; i shall pay myself

[samran]

My take on it is this: If you have family here, you have every right to stay. That is a fundamental human right. If you have an idea to be productive, create value, directly employ people and pay taxes to the Thai revenue department , then you are welcome. But if you are neither of these, then you have no right to simply stay here and make no net contribution to society.

In short, if you want to stay and live in Thailand, plan ahead to be a "profitable" migrant and you will be welcomed.

Now, for the western trash (my words, not the posters's I quote) whose only plan is "to work for peanuts, scam, steal or beg enough money to survive", you won't be missed.

Maybe some people will found these words too harsh but for the benefit of people who intend to live with their family in Thailand, they should be said.

my goodness, are we agreeing on something? quick, buy a lottery ticket.....

[Pierrot]

Not too fast

I think you're going too far regarding retirees. As long as they have enough resources to provide for their needs why not welcome them ? They don't take anybody's job and furthermore they are source of employment for a wide range of people, from nurses to housekeepers. And they usually don't create too much trouble.

You will be old one day too, don't forget it.

[samran]

Not too fast

I think you're going too far regarding retirees. As long as they have enough resources to provide for their needs why not welcome them ? They don't take anybody's job and furthermore they are source of employment for a wide range of people, from nurses to housekeepers. And they usually don't create too much trouble.

You will be old one day too, don't forget it.

I see what you are saying, but I'm not entirely convinced that retirees, over the course of their time here, make any net contribution. I'm happy to be proved wrong. Remeber, we are talking about NET contributions, the benefits from national infrastructure that has already been built, subsidised and is ready when you arrived, and have made no contribution to.

If you are a married retiree, that is another kettle of fish. For me, that changes from an economic argument to a human rights argument.

Edited June 2, 2009 by samran

[deanosan3]

Game. Set. Match.

get a real job and a real 1 year visa! that's the other option:)

And if real job is out of a question you can always pretend to be studying thai and get a ED visa. Non-immigrant, all kind of perks like local driving licence and you can call yourself as an expat or resident in the pub in front of your "mates".

there's always plenty of Thai chicks to marry lol.

my guess is thats the only farangs the Thai govt want here - and the reason to boot the others. married farangs dont do border runs.

anyone else here under 50 is probably causing problems or running from the law. over 50 they just wanna die somewhere warm and cant afford Florida.

[ubonjoe]

yep that study was done by tourism Australia. They target backpackers, basically because they usually come from well off, educated middle class backgrounds, spend time in OZ working (legally) therefore being productive and ploughing their earnings (and taxes) back into Australia. They are also educated, so they tend to meet areas where Australia has temporary skill shortages.

The reason they are also targeted is that they come back when they are older, usually with their families, and spend more. It was found, as a group, backpackers spent more per head than most any other type of tourist. As such, Australia has bought out the welcome mat for backpackers, with extendable 1 to 2 year working holiday visas.

Interestingly, at the same time as these initiatives for backpackers, Australia basically scrapped its retirement visa system. You can be sure that the boys and girls at treasury and immigration crunched the numbers and saw that retirees make very little net contribution to Australia.

Anyway, back on topic.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer that if you have family here, married, or with kids, you should have an unquestionable right to live and work here, with a clear and defined path to residency and citizenship. I think that visa rules that are restrictive, in this regard the 40K per month requirement is a distraction at best. In most cases, you need more than this anyway to even consider providing your family a basic and decent standard of living, in most parts of thailand (though some will disagree).

I also beleive if you have a business idea, or want to invest, then there should be paths to do so, which match worlds best practice in say HK or Singapore. I'm happy enought for every punter to come in and build his beer bar in Phuket or Patters, cause I know the free market will take care of most of the bad ones. I don't need visa rules to do that for me. For every 50 failed beer bar owners, there will be one smart investor, doing something really good for Thailand.

The thing that gets me about these threads is the sense of entitlement that most people have to live in Thailand. There is almost the sense of "I big white man with a few bucks in pockets. These little brown people should be happy and grateful that big white man spreads about a few pennies".

My take on it is this: If you have family here, you have every right to stay. That is a fundamental human right. If you have an idea to be productive, create value, directly employ people and pay taxes to the Thai revenue department , then you are welcome. But if you are neither of these, then you have no right to simply stay here and make no net contribution to society.

yep.

thailand needs people to help it grow. Not stay still. Pretty standard in most parts of the developed world.

I also should add:

before you critise Thailand, pretend that you aren't your current nationality for a sec, look to see how it is to difficult it is to migrate independently back to your home country. Kinda puts Thailand in perspective.

I agree with you except the yep. Retirees do bring in money and many are married to Thai's but are getting their extensions for retirement.

And maybe a little with the 40K comment. If you own your home the 40K is a high figure. Half that amount in most of Thailand is more than enough. You have to remember not everybody lives in the high cost areas.

Now a couple of addional comments.

This change will not affect real tourists including back packers. Very few (if any) would leave the country and re-enter Thailand 4 times in a normal stay crossing the border.

This is to stop those that are probably working illegally and cannot take the time off to get a tourist visa. So they have been making border runs every 2 weeks. Which is kind of stupid if you were to ask me. A check of airfares to KL will tell you that you can make a monthly out and back (same day) trip for less than 2 border runs.

Every time a change is made there are always people that want to turn it into something else other than what it is all about. The 11 pages of this topic is proof of that.

Thailand wants tourists and visitors but it does want them to obey the rules. If they didn't want them then why is it so easy to enter this country and stay leaglly.