Actor David Carradine Dead in Bangkok

[elektrified]

That photo's not David neither is it the hotel he was found in <deleted>!

I agree with you.

[bobbin]

North Americans among us may remember that during the famous "intern incident" concerning former President Clinton. the television networks had to relax their reporting guidelines in order to explain exactly what had taken place. That included explaining the "stained" dress.

Perhaps then, it is permissible for someone to explain the logistics of the scene.

The attached photo does not seem like a true picture. Perhaps a staged photo trying to capitalize on this sad event. If the asking price was not to high, many organizations may have purchased just to get a scoop. It also contradicts the description given by cyborg that only one wrist had rope attached. Also does not look like a suite in a 5 star hotel in the picture.

If it is a true photo, how does he achieve the orgasm that is the main purpose of this activity? Both hands are well away from the penis. And though some women are reputed to be able to orgasm "hands-free", I am pretty sure that this is a rare talent in men. When they are alone.

[steelepulse]

This person seems to bring up a lot of valid points:

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-267555

"Yesterday nothing made sense. I was thinking...ok...naked....closet...string tied around testicles....(length of string)....different color from string tied around neck.....(they said it was from the hotel curtain cord) now today I hear a foot print on the bed....a glass of water to be examined....

 

Why, why on earth would he take the cord from the curtain?? He is an intelligent man, I personally do not think he would destroy Hotel property. Where did the other string come from?? Was the cord cut, if so was their a knife in the room??

 

Where were his clothes? On floor, hung up, in laundry?? People will just "drop" their clothes in place at times and other times they will place them in hamper or laundry. How and why was he naked??

 

Also, if he did this to himself, his HANDS would have done the work right? Are their any calluses, bruises, or threads from the two ropes on his hands???

[asiawatcher]

Thus article says it all....

THE MYSTERIOUS DEMISE OF DAVID CARRADINE

ICON OF AN AMERICAN FILM DYNASTY

BY ANTONIO PINEDA

The announcer for the BBC breaks the story on TV. David Carradine was found dead in the Swiss Hotel on Soi Nailert. The film star was found in the closet of his room bound by curtain rope around his neck, and the inference is that his genitals were bound as well. The news ran through the Bangkok film colony like a forest fire.

I consult investigative journalist David Walker. He is also a screenwriter and author of the cult classic book, Hello My Big Big Honey. Walker is at the hotel. He has already led a CBS crew to legendary film producer-director David Winters penthouse office. Winters is a dear friend of Carradine from their glory days in Hollywood. Walker wants to see the surveilance tapes. No chance Bagger Vance. Dr. Pornthip, a colorful Thai forensic scientist is on the scene at the hotel. Walker says Pornthip, who is famous for sporting many hued punk hair styles and is a bit of a celebrity,delares the case to be death by auto sexual strangulation.

I roll up to Winters penthouse office. He is devastated by the tragic loss of a dear friend. He has not slept. CBS and People Magazine have already come by to solicit intelligence. David is shocked by the tawdry inferrences. He has spoken to 3 of Carradines agents. The agents declare that Carradine was on the roll of a lifetime. Quentin Tarantino redefined the 72 year old actor in Kill Bill. Carradine recieved a Golden Globe nomination for his work with Tarantino. The actor of the classic cult TV series Kung <deleted> had starred in 13 motion pictures since Kill Bill. His salary was in the stratosphere.

The strange circumstances of the verdict by auto- sexual strangulation trouble Winters. It takes two to tango. Why indeed would a man of his talent take his own life alone. Bangkok is known as a city with love for sale. Film people come here to shoot and avail themselves of the pleasures to be found in the gilded city of sin. Kinky sex is no big deal. Could this be a coverup for a sex robbery murder. The Royal Thai Police have shut the door on this case all too quickly. The tourist industry has been severely damaged by the recession and political instability. The murder of a famous film star would be a final nail in the coffin of the tourism industry. Winters says that Carradine, son of John , iconic members of an American cinema dynasty were above the fray. David Carradine was according to Winters a consumate gentleman, a brilliant actor, and a man for all seasons.

I run into local film producer Tom Waller at a reception hosted by the Italian Embassy. Tom does not believe in the verdict of death by auto-sexual strangulation. He concludes that it was a sex robbery gone wrong, and that to cover the motives the body had been arranged to fit the profile of death by auto- sexual strangulation, a theory once confined to the genre of novels classified as psychological thrillers. The denizens of the film colony in Bangkok are incredulous at the grisly circumstances of the sad demise of this brilliant talent.

The reception is attended by beaucoup des artistes and cineastes. Film critic Nick Palevski and I schmooze at the bar. Between glasses of vino rosso and spumante Nick expresses his distaste for the tawdy belching of the media and press. He is the critic for Auteur, a web site devoted to film criticism. He can not believe the shabby and sensational manner in which this case is being exploited.

In no way is this story meant to impugn the reputation of the Royal Thai Police, their meritorious service is well known. Nor is it meant to slander the bereaved Carradine family. The American Embassy has issued a statement wishing the family the best in this tragic moment, embassy staff have no other conclusion re this case except the finding of the body. Aristotelian logic might conclude that something is rotten in Denmark. Western countries would conduct a far more sophisticated investigation.

The epilogue is delivered by my dear friend in Santa Monica Martin Zweiback. He is a writer- producer director with 50 years of credits in Hollywood. Martin scrpted the original Kung <deleted> series and is a close friend of David Carradine. Martin is a gentleman of class and distinction. He often graces the Bangkok film colony with his presence. It is fitting that a cineaste of his stature have the final word in this affair. I recieved this e mail from Martin, and with all due respect to this fine bloke it is represented here below as a final testament to this sordid affair.

Antonio, my friend,

Sorry I've been neglectful about keeping in touch of late.

Thinking about Carradine this day, I recall when writing the Kung <deleted> show, how often his image inspired the words, and how much depth he brought to them. They sometimes had to pour him onto the set but he never read a line wrong. He was a gifted and underrated actor. I saw him at a screening of Kill Bill not too long ago. He seemed vibrant and clearly excited by the "second chance" Tarantino's film had given him. Suicide in the middle of shooting a movie at this point in his life just doesn't compute -- but it does remind us to count our Blessings, Gifts, and Challenges -- and be careful what we wish for.

With All Good Thoughts,

Martin

[bangkokrick]

Wow! The photo in the ThaiRath Newspaper does not look like an accident with the hands tied like that! It looks like another person must have been involved.

It also does not look like a 5 star hotel room.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-267633

Attached photograph.

It also does not look like David C.

Cheers, Rick

and it looks like that picture was taken in an average hotel room, 1200 Baht p.n. price range.

Wasn't he staying in a suite not in a better guest house room? Also the body shape... looks like a much younger person... but who knows

He was staying in a 5 star hotel in a 500 USD a night room according to reports.

Cheers, Rick

[Scott]

Since there seems to be some dispute about whether or not he was alone or not, is it possible he could have had another hotel guest in his room, rather than someone from outside the hotel. This might not be seen on the CCTV, if there wasn't one in the hallway near the room.

[webfact]

He was staying in a 5 star hotel in a 500 USD a night room according to reports.

Cheers, Rick

Yup, and that's one of the major errors in that picture beside the other major error that both hands are tight together. Its a fake!

Edited June 6, 2009 by webfact

[sabaijai]

Thus article says it all....

THE MYSTERIOUS DEMISE OF DAVID CARRADINE

ICON OF AN AMERICAN FILM DYNASTY

BY ANTONIO PINEDA

The announcer for the BBC breaks the story on TV. David Carradine was found dead in the Swiss Hotel on Soi Nailert. The film star was found in the closet of his room bound by curtain rope around his neck, and the inference is that his genitals were bound as well. The news ran through the Bangkok film colony like a forest fire.

I consult investigative journalist David Walker. He is also a screenwriter and author of the cult classic book, Hello My Big Big Honey. Walker is at the hotel. He has already led a CBS crew to legendary film producer-director David Winters penthouse office. Winters is a dear friend of Carradine from their glory days in Hollywood. Walker wants to see the surveilance tapes. No chance Bagger Vance. Dr. Pornthip, a colorful Thai forensic scientist is on the scene at the hotel. Walker says Pornthip, who is famous for sporting many hued punk hair styles and is a bit of a celebrity,delares the case to be death by auto sexual strangulation.

I roll up to Winters penthouse office. He is devastated by the tragic loss of a dear friend. He has not slept. CBS and People Magazine have already come by to solicit intelligence. David is shocked by the tawdry inferrences. He has spoken to 3 of Carradines agents. The agents declare that Carradine was on the roll of a lifetime. Quentin Tarantino redefined the 72 year old actor in Kill Bill. Carradine recieved a Golden Globe nomination for his work with Tarantino. The actor of the classic cult TV series Kung <deleted> had starred in 13 motion pictures since Kill Bill. His salary was in the stratosphere.

The strange circumstances of the verdict by auto- sexual strangulation trouble Winters. It takes two to tango. Why indeed would a man of his talent take his own life alone. Bangkok is known as a city with love for sale. Film people come here to shoot and avail themselves of the pleasures to be found in the gilded city of sin. Kinky sex is no big deal. Could this be a coverup for a sex robbery murder. The Royal Thai Police have shut the door on this case all too quickly. The tourist industry has been severely damaged by the recession and political instability. The murder of a famous film star would be a final nail in the coffin of the tourism industry. Winters says that Carradine, son of John , iconic members of an American cinema dynasty were above the fray. David Carradine was according to Winters a consumate gentleman, a brilliant actor, and a man for all seasons.

I run into local film producer Tom Waller at a reception hosted by the Italian Embassy. Tom does not believe in the verdict of death by auto-sexual strangulation. He concludes that it was a sex robbery gone wrong, and that to cover the motives the body had been arranged to fit the profile of death by auto- sexual strangulation, a theory once confined to the genre of novels classified as psychological thrillers. The denizens of the film colony in Bangkok are incredulous at the grisly circumstances of the sad demise of this brilliant talent.

The reception is attended by beaucoup des artistes and cineastes. Film critic Nick Palevski and I schmooze at the bar. Between glasses of vino rosso and spumante Nick expresses his distaste for the tawdy belching of the media and press. He is the critic for Auteur, a web site devoted to film criticism. He can not believe the shabby and sensational manner in which this case is being exploited.

In no way is this story meant to impugn the reputation of the Royal Thai Police, their meritorious service is well known. Nor is it meant to slander the bereaved Carradine family. The American Embassy has issued a statement wishing the family the best in this tragic moment, embassy staff have no other conclusion re this case except the finding of the body. Aristotelian logic might conclude that something is rotten in Denmark. Western countries would conduct a far more sophisticated investigation.

The epilogue is delivered by my dear friend in Santa Monica Martin Zweiback. He is a writer- producer director with 50 years of credits in Hollywood. Martin scrpted the original Kung <deleted> series and is a close friend of David Carradine. Martin is a gentleman of class and distinction. He often graces the Bangkok film colony with his presence. It is fitting that a cineaste of his stature have the final word in this affair. I recieved this e mail from Martin, and with all due respect to this fine bloke it is represented here below as a final testament to this sordid affair.

Antonio, my friend,

Sorry I've been neglectful about keeping in touch of late.

Thinking about Carradine this day, I recall when writing the Kung <deleted> show, how often his image inspired the words, and how much depth he brought to them. They sometimes had to pour him onto the set but he never read a line wrong. He was a gifted and underrated actor. I saw him at a screening of Kill Bill not too long ago. He seemed vibrant and clearly excited by the "second chance" Tarantino's film had given him. Suicide in the middle of shooting a movie at this point in his life just doesn't compute -- but it does remind us to count our Blessings, Gifts, and Challenges -- and be careful what we wish for.

With All Good Thoughts,

Martin

This article is speculation, it doesn't 'say it all.' To assume murder is involved - with no evidence, and no motive - is a bit of a stretch, at this point. Forensics doesn't say the death was a suicide, so the conclusion is fallacious. Many people die - accidentally - while practicing auto-erotic strangulation. Pornthip is a sharp investigator and so far she believes the death was accidental, but a complete report has not yet been issued.

[steelepulse]

From the AP http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...x9NrywD98L1COG1

>>"In some cases it can suggest murder, too. But sometimes when the victim is naked and in bondage, it can suggest that the victim isdoing it to himself," said Pornthip, considered the country's top criminal forensics expert. She did not take part in the autopsy.

[sabaijai]

From the AP http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...x9NrywD98L1COG1

>>"In some cases it can suggest murder, too. But sometimes when the victim is naked and in bondage, it can suggest that the victim isdoing it to himself," said Pornthip, considered the country's top criminal forensics expert. She did not take part in the autopsy.

in context:

Pornthip Rojanasunand, director of Thailand's Central Institute of Forensic Science, said the circumstances under which Carradine died suggest the 72-year-old actor may have been performing auto-erotic asphyxiation. The practice involves temporarily cutting off the supply of oxygen to the brain to heighten the effects of a sexual climax.

"In some cases it can suggest murder, too. But sometimes when the victim is naked and in bondage, it can suggest that the victim is doing it to himself," said Pornthip, considered the country's top criminal forensics expert. She did not take part in the autopsy.

"If you hang yourself by the neck, you don't need so much pressure to kill yourself," she said. "Those who get highly sexually aroused tend to forget this fact."

[Burr]

FoxNews

David Carradine was found hanging in his Bangkok Hotel room on Wednesday. With his death still under investigation, a source close to Carradine told Tarts that the actor had been struggling with financial concerns but did not think the 72-year-old actor would have ever even considered taking his own life.

The source says Carradine desperately reached out to some friends in the business that he hadn’t been in contact with for quite some time just weeks ago, asking them to do whatever they could to help him boost the bank balance.

[bangkokrick]

FoxNews

David Carradine was found hanging in his Bangkok Hotel room on Wednesday. With his death still under investigation, a source close to Carradine told Tarts that the actor had been struggling with financial concerns but did not think the 72-year-old actor would have ever even considered taking his own life.

The source says Carradine desperately reached out to some friends in the business that he hadn’t been in contact with for quite some time just weeks ago, asking them to do whatever they could to help him boost the bank balance.

He would appear that he was doing well emotionally and financially from this report on Yahoo.

' Carradine flew to Thailand last week and began work on a film titled "Stretch" two days before his death. His friends and associates insisted he would not have killed himself, telling CNN's King he had a happy marriage, recently bought a new car, and had several films lined up after he finished work in Bangkok.'

Yahoo report link

Cheers, Rick

[chen168]

I think it is pretty clear at this stage that it was not a suicide but autoerotic asphyxiation or murder.

Maybe we will never know for sure what happened since they already sent his body back to the USA.

Edited June 6, 2009 by chen168

[Jingthing]

What floor was his room on? Was there possible access via rooms on either side from the outside? Were both hands tied or only one?

Edited June 6, 2009 by Jingthing

[Mobi]

Auto-erotic asphyxiation (AEA) is the term used to describe the practice of cutting off the blood supply to the brain through self-applied suffocation methods while masturbating to orgasm. The interference of blood supply to the brain brought on by AEA can induce cerebral anoxia, a deficiency of oxygen in the brain. It is thought that the lack of blood flow and oxygen can intensify sensations, producing sensations of giddiness, light-headedness, or exhilaration that can heighten the orgasmic experience. It's also possible that the helplessness and self-endangerment inherent in the techniques enhance the person's sexual gratification.

Of course, this same self-endangerment that may provide a thrill to the person carrying out AEA also weakens one's self-control and judgement, which can easily result in accidental death. Exactly how many people engage in AEA is unknown, and the practice almost always remains a secret until a person dies accidentally. It's estimated that between 500 and 1000 deaths occur annually in the United States from this dangerous type of masturbation. While it is thought to be practised more often by adolescent or young adult guys, a small number of women die from AEA every year.

If a person does not die from cerebral anoxia, brain or tissue damage could possibly occur, depending on how long the brain and body are deprived of oxygen. A person also risks lacerating, cutting or bruising the neck, trachea, and oesophagus, depending on the suffocation or strangulation technique used.

These immediate threats to the brain and body, including death and brain damage, make auto-erotic asphyxiation one of the riskiest of all sexual behaviours.

[Jingthing]

I think it is also associated with drug abuse including alcohol. Weren't there reports he had been drinking heavily before the incident? There was also a report that the room was locked from the INSIDE. Now IF that is true, and there was no way to access the room from the window, isn't that the final answer (no murder)?

Edited June 6, 2009 by Jingthing

[grantbkk]

Just finished watching the David Carradine segment on Larry King Live. Family reps, a guest doctor and the celebrity attorney weighed in on the controversy surrounding David's death. The well rehearsed company line is that David was murdered by persons unknown. Attorney Mark Geragos, famous for defending celebrity murders and sexual deviants like Michael Jackson wants the FBI to investigate the case and stated Thailand and the Royal Thai Police operated as somewhere between a "third world and forth world country" range.

A celebrity addiction and love relationship guru Dr. Drew Pinsky simply said in his experience, participants in auto-erotic asphyxiation never act alone. The big news was from some guy named Jerry Penocoli, supposedly a journalist, who is pretty sure David was killed by a secret society because of David's martial arts involvement.

The whole Larry King segment is simply spin aimed at swaying public opinion until the news cycle causes the tragedy to fade into the background. In every case the "actors" on Larry King's show were deflecting any facts that may lead to the conclusion that David may have accidentally killed himself. I suppose the spin machine will be partially successful because what may actually have happened is distasteful to most.

IMHO the Thai Rath photo is most certainly a fake. I think he was found in a large armoire, not a closet in a cheap hotel. That is not a $700+ room anywhere in the world. Can't be sure but it sure doesn't look like David Carradine or match the description of how he was found. I hope it wasn't published to sell newspapers.

[bangkokrick]

What floor was his room on? Was there possible access via rooms on either side from the outside? Were both hands tied or only one?

Don't know about the rooms, but some reports suggest that both hands were tied. Seems to be a pretty impossible task if he was alone.

Cheers, Rick

[Jingthing]

What floor was his room on? Was there possible access via rooms on either side from the outside? Were both hands tied or only one?

Don't know about the rooms, but some reports suggest that both hands were tied. Seems to be a pretty impossible task if he was alone.

Cheers, Rick

Perhaps not impossible for someone exceptionally skilled in the rope tying arts. This man was not your average Joe Blow. OK. this is really off the wall, but perhaps there is a small chance it really was a suicide deliberately set up to appear mysterious to further the eternal legend of the man? Doing this in Bangkok insures that nobody is going to fully trust the police or authorities, so this case will probably never be solved to the satisfaction of skeptics. What better way to have people remember you forever?

Edited June 6, 2009 by Jingthing

[zorro1]

Yeah that whole Larry King thing was interesting to say the least especially the bit about murdered for outing "secret societies"????

unfortunately it happened in Thailand and Bangkok which all makes it a bit more interesting, Bangkok dangerous right..

I think his agent was on drugs or something or the only person not in on the spin

edit suicide disguised as murder gets the family life insurance if he had any

Edited June 6, 2009 by zorro1

[TAWP]

Someone sold them the picture and made a buck.

[bangkokrick]

What floor was his room on? Was there possible access via rooms on either side from the outside? Were both hands tied or only one?

Don't know about the rooms, but some reports suggest that both hands were tied. Seems to be a pretty impossible task if he was alone.

Cheers, Rick

Perhaps not impossible for someone exceptionally skilled in the rope tying arts. This man was not your average Joe Blow. OK. this is really off the wall, but perhaps there is a small chance it really was a suicide deliberately set up to appear mysterious to further the eternal legend of the man? Doing this in Bangkok insures that nobody is going to fully trust the police or authorities, so this case will probably never be solved to the satisfaction of skeptics. What better way to have people remember you forever?

Fair point, but I think that he will now be remembered for the wrong reasons. He was a good actor and I grew up watching him play Cain in the Kung <deleted> series. Very sad.

Cheers, Rick

[canuckamuck]

What floor was his room on? Was there possible access via rooms on either side from the outside? Were both hands tied or only one?

Don't know about the rooms, but some reports suggest that both hands were tied. Seems to be a pretty impossible task if he was alone.

Cheers, Rick

Perhaps not impossible for someone exceptionally skilled in the rope tying arts. This man was not your average Joe Blow. OK. this is really off the wall, but perhaps there is a small chance it really was a suicide deliberately set up to appear mysterious to further the eternal legend of the man? Doing this in Bangkok insures that nobody is going to fully trust the police or authorities, so this case will probably never be solved to the satisfaction of skeptics. What better way to have people remember you forever?

Can't buy that one jing. People don't usually set up suicides to look like murders. Also by all accounts David was a family guy. I imagine the last thing he would have wanted was to have his family's memories of him forever haunted by such a sordid death.

Intentional suicide seems the least of all possibilities.

[Jingthing]

Can't buy that one jing.

Yeah I agree it is far fetched, but in a country where you really can't trust the police, how are we ever going to know the truth?

[zorro1]

What floor was his room on? Was there possible access via rooms on either side from the outside? Were both hands tied or only one?

Don't know about the rooms, but some reports suggest that both hands were tied. Seems to be a pretty impossible task if he was alone.

Cheers, Rick

Perhaps not impossible for someone exceptionally skilled in the rope tying arts. This man was not your average Joe Blow. OK. this is really off the wall, but perhaps there is a small chance it really was a suicide deliberately set up to appear mysterious to further the eternal legend of the man? Doing this in Bangkok insures that nobody is going to fully trust the police or authorities, so this case will probably never be solved to the satisfaction of skeptics. What better way to have people remember you forever?

Can't buy that one jing. People don't usually set up suicides to look like murders. Also by all accounts David was a family guy. I imagine the last thing he would have wanted was to have his family's memories of him forever haunted by such a sordid death.

Intentional suicide seems the least of all possibilities.

They do actually but you don't hear about it as its then a murder. Very famous case in the states where a guy shot himself and the handgun was attached to a large helium balloon should have sailed off 100kms away but got tangled in something close by. Of course one would want to provide a life life insurance payout to set up wife kids etc (no payout on suicide) . Not suggesting David did this but anything is possible whilst speculating

Edited June 6, 2009 by zorro1

[bangkokrick]

What floor was his room on? Was there possible access via rooms on either side from the outside? Were both hands tied or only one?

Don't know about the rooms, but some reports suggest that both hands were tied. Seems to be a pretty impossible task if he was alone.

Cheers, Rick

Perhaps not impossible for someone exceptionally skilled in the rope tying arts. This man was not your average Joe Blow. OK. this is really off the wall, but perhaps there is a small chance it really was a suicide deliberately set up to appear mysterious to further the eternal legend of the man? Doing this in Bangkok insures that nobody is going to fully trust the police or authorities, so this case will probably never be solved to the satisfaction of skeptics. What better way to have people remember you forever?

Can't buy that one jing. People don't usually set up suicides to look like murders. Also by all accounts David was a family guy. I imagine the last thing he would have wanted was to have his family's memories of him forever haunted by such a sordid death.

Intentional suicide seems the least of all possibilities.

Lumpini police said the body of Carradine was found curled up inside the wardrobe with one end of a shoelace tied around his penis and the other end fastened around his neck.

Both of his hands were bound with a cord which was also tied around his neck, said an officer at the station who requested anonymity.

I don't think that this is possible to do on your own. The cord also was not a part of the room inventory, so where did that come from? Strange business.

Cheers, Rick

[Jingthing]

Since when are we believing Thai police reports? I guess if the US embassy had jumped in and demanded the FBI get involved it would have caused an international diplomatic incident. The more I hear about this the more I think we are going to have to accept the auto erotic accident story or think it might have been a murder, but the chances of a murder ever being proven seem very remote.

[zorro1]

Larry kings show produced a document form his divorce case where she says he was obsessed with kinky sex. Trying to get a mental picture of what you posted, doesn't look good but then again a lot of gifted artists are wacko

[asiawatcher]

Just finished watching... and sexual deviants like Michael Jackson wants the FBI to investigate the case and stated Thailand and the Royal Thai Police operated as somewhere between a "third world and forth world country" range.

IMHO the Thai Rath photo is most certainly a fake.

.... That is not a $700+ room anywhere in the world. ....

Some fairly unqualified assumptions ... also where do you stay ... Backpackers? There are over 1,000 rooms in BKK over USD700 a night - no girls included!

[asiawatcher]

Wow! The photo in the ThaiRath Newspaper does not look like an accident with the hands tied like that! It looks like another person must have been involved.

It also does not look like a 5 star hotel room.

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-267633

A bit hard to masturbate with his hands tied above his head - that that is different - but of course - a suicide! (yawn) And then again - anyone wanting to top themselves always does that in a closet - I would have thought the bed would have been a better bet or even from the curtain rods - save removing the ropes! Nope - no suicide in my opinion and whoever did this carried him to the closet -if that was actually him and that was the 5 star closet!!!