The Stock Market

[Kf6vci]

Well, I want no part of this. Yep, I missed the rally. Now I try to remain short.

Time for some independent thinking: HELOC and credit cards get slashed. Unemployment statistics are, well, leaving out all who stopped looking for work and those on part time jobs. And those who lend money to Uncle Sam at ridiculously low rates will experience losses when bond prices fall due to interest rates climbing up again.

In the next few months, many folks will stop getting unemployment in the U.S. Let's see what will happen then.

And those who are upbeat based on existing home sales, there are much lower prices, what do you expect?

Right now, on Bloomberg, there is a story about companies' earnings improving with less staff.

Well, you all should make up your minds and think twice before jumping in based on "look how much the index rose". Instead, if you are bullish, buy in a bear market!

[zorro1]

there was a miner slow sell off friday whilst waiting for the jobs numbers USA. The reason the sell off was slow is that buyers stepped up . Bought all my stock back that I sold ,around 50% and cheaper , you could just see the confidence Friday, nothing seems to shock the market anymore. Thought the Dow might be flat but nope, up 100. Many totally closed positions and went short Friday OUCH!

Zorro can you help me understand something ?

I have been reading many blog sites such as Mish's, zero hedge, Jesse's café etc. I know you

don't pay attention to these sites but many other people evidently are. Then last week a company on another web

site (TrimTabs ) warned that the number of insider sellers compared to buyers is now 30 x greater which is

why TrimTabs are forecasting the end of the rally sooner than later.

Not only are almost all the articles very negative – 90% of the comments following are the same.

they have gone beyond describing it as just the manipulation of the stock market and now some are

likening it to " fraud ".

Read them for yourself. My question is if there are so many people who evidently now have a very

cynical view of the lack of integrity in the stock market- who is actually left to participate ?

Is it is just a few very big players and you ?

The point you're missing midas, is that people don't really care that it's a scam. They just want their stocks to go back up. The Buddha got that one right.

he he about sums it up. Wish I could remember his name but one of the big players interviewed on CNN who called the fall just re reaccessed the recovery as a U not a W or a V. Man if this is a U then cant wait for the upside I'm telling you guys, the small players piddle around during the day and the big players close the markets. Well I can tell you Friday There were some very big bets wiping out lines a few pips over on some mid caps and pennies at close. You just knew the Dow would be green , was a very relaxed sleep Friday night. So how do these guys know this stuff? Ive seen them sell off heavy when futures are plus 50 at 4.09pm and yep Dow tanks next day. Bloody good chartists or ??

[zorro1]

there was a miner slow sell off friday whilst waiting for the jobs numbers USA. The reason the sell off was slow is that buyers stepped up . Bought all my stock back that I sold ,around 50% and cheaper , you could just see the confidence Friday, nothing seems to shock the market anymore. Thought the Dow might be flat but nope, up 100. Many totally closed positions and went short Friday OUCH!

just correecting my post

Bought all my stock back that I sold ,around 50% and cheaper

meant bought 50% of my stock back cheaper . Not 50% cheaper although that would have been nice

[midas]

there was a miner slow sell off friday whilst waiting for the jobs numbers USA. The reason the sell off was slow is that buyers stepped up . Bought all my stock back that I sold ,around 50% and cheaper , you could just see the confidence Friday, nothing seems to shock the market anymore. Thought the Dow might be flat but nope, up 100. Many totally closed positions and went short Friday OUCH!

Zorro can you help me understand something ?

I have been reading many blog sites such as Mish's, zero hedge, Jesse's café etc. I know you

don't pay attention to these sites but many other people evidently are. Then last week a company on another web

site (TrimTabs ) warned that the number of insider sellers compared to buyers is now 30 x greater which is

why TrimTabs are forecasting the end of the rally sooner than later.

Not only are almost all the articles very negative – 90% of the comments following are the same.

they have gone beyond describing it as just the manipulation of the stock market and now some are

likening it to " fraud ".

Read them for yourself. My question is if there are so many people who evidently now have a very

cynical view of the lack of integrity in the stock market- who is actually left to participate ?

Is it is just a few very big players and you ?

The point you're missing midas, is that people don't really care that it's a scam. They just want their stocks to go back up. The Buddha got that one right.

he he about sums it up. Wish I could remember his name but one of the big players interviewed on CNN who called the fall just re reaccessed the recovery as a U not a W or a V. Man if this is a U then cant wait for the upside I'm telling you guys, the small players piddle around during the day and the big players close the markets. Well I can tell you Friday There were some very big bets wiping out lines a few pips over on some mid caps and pennies at close. You just knew the Dow would be green , was a very relaxed sleep Friday night. So how do these guys know this stuff? Ive seen them sell off heavy when futures are plus 50 at 4.09pm and yep Dow tanks next day. Bloody good chartists or ??

Lanna yes i guess so. But I am fascinated by the psychology behind it. It seems to fit into the definition of

" bipolar disorder " -estimated to afflict more than 5 million Americans—about 1 out of every 45 adults

which is enough people that believe in unicorns to sustain a rally

[badge]

I think its pretty much accepted that the world will have a 'W' - by the real players.

Chancers like Roubini might be able to word a 'U' recovery in their blogs and minutes of fame on financial tv.

As for "almost all the articles very negative – 90% of the comments following are the same.", thats why these people run blogs, sell the public 'systems' and dont trade.

When was the last time you saw inane comments from Citadel's head equity trader? Or Goldmans equity trading prop head?... You dont, because they trade the markets, theyre the bulk of the transactions and they dont want people to know what theyre doing!

As for people bemoaning 'manipulation', I think they should wake up and realise theres little manipulation; if I have a very large account, and I hold a share, is it manipulation if I do all in my power to get it higher? If I, and others, know a struggling chinese trader has a huge underwater position in copper futures, and we push the market against him knowing he'll have to capitulate, is that manipulation? Or is it just business? Where is a line drawn?.... It is'nt, its fair game.

Its me, versus Goldmans, versus MS, versus Brevan Howard, versus you.

If you think its manipulated then dont get involved.

It also astounds me that when markets go down, retailers claim its manipulation. When markets go up, retailers claim its manipulation.

[flying]

I think its pretty much accepted that the world will have a 'W' - by the real players.

Chancers like Roubini might be able to word a 'U' recovery in their blogs and minutes of fame on financial tv.

Beats the h_ll out of me why they even talk about recovery shapes.

Would we not need to have hit bottom to talk about future uphill shapes?

So far if I had to say what shape it is...Then... l .... shape since we have still not even reached bottom. But they like to say things along the lines of it is less dead this month than we thought it would be.

Perhaps they should say the Stock Market has had a bounce. As for the recession/depression when we hit bottom we can start looking at shapes of things to come.

Till then maybe we could simplify & say if/when unemployment stops rising

I mean the lagging indicator BS looks pretty silly now that they have been saying it for so many months. Not to mention it is widely believed our true UE number is now at record all time highs.

[midas]

When was the last time you saw inane comments from Citadel's head equity trader? Or Goldmans equity trading prop head?... You dont, because they trade the markets, theyre the bulk of the transactions and they dont want people to know what theyre doing!

As for people bemoaning 'manipulation', I think they should wake up and realise theres little manipulation; if I have a very large account, and I hold a share, is it manipulation if I do all in my power to get it higher? If I, and others, know a struggling chinese trader has a huge underwater position in copper futures, and we push the market against him knowing he'll have to capitulate, is that manipulation? Or is it just business? Where is a line drawn?.... It is'nt, its fair game.

If you think its manipulated then dont get involved.

It also astounds me that when markets go down, retailers claim its manipulation. When markets go up, retailers claim its manipulation.

:D

Are you related to Jim Cramer by any chance ?

Manipulation

The attempt or act to artificially change the price of a security or a market movement with the intent to make a profit. One example is wash selling, in which an investor both sells then quickly re-buys the same security, hoping to create the impression of increased trading volume, and therefore raise the price. Another is churning, in which an investor makes both buy and sell orders through different brokers to create the impression of increased interest in the security and raise the price. Manipulation can be used to both increase and decrease prices, depending on the investor's perceived needs. Manipulation is illegal under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. See also: Antitrust, Fix.

[Naam]

I think its pretty much accepted that the world will have a 'W' - by the real players.

Chancers like Roubini might be able to word a 'U' recovery in their blogs and minutes of fame on financial tv.

Beats the h_ll out of me why they even talk about recovery shapes.

Would we not need to have hit bottom to talk about future uphill shapes?

So far if I had to say what shape it is...Then... l .... shape since we have still not even reached bottom. But they like to say things along the lines of it is less dead this month than we thought it would be.

Perhaps they should say the Stock Market has had a bounce. As for the recession/depression when we hit bottom we can start looking at shapes of things to come.

Till then maybe we could simplify & say if/when unemployment stops rising

I mean the lagging indicator BS looks pretty silly now that they have been saying it for so many months. Not to mention it is widely believed our true UE number is now at record all time highs.

mixing up things doesn't clarify the situation either. the stock market does not necessarily reflect the situation of a national economy and the same goes for unemployment numbers, e.g in Germany we had less than a milion unemployed 30 years ago and inspite of >4 million unemployed a couple of years ago Germany's economy was in a much better shape than in the 70s. besides, the situation in The Greatest Nation on Earth™ has not anymore the paramount influence on global economies as it had a decade or two ago. the saying "if the U.S. sneezes the rest of the world will have pneumonia" has to be changed to "if the U.S. sneezes the rest of the world might catch the flue" (not the swine flue!).

[loong]

Manipulation

The attempt or act to artificially change the price of a security or a market movement with the intent to make a profit. One example is wash selling, in which an investor both sells then quickly re-buys the same security, hoping to create the impression of increased trading volume, and therefore raise the price. Another is churning, in which an investor makes both buy and sell orders through different brokers to create the impression of increased interest in the security and raise the price. Manipulation can be used to both increase and decrease prices, depending on the investor's perceived needs. Manipulation is illegal under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. See also: Antitrust, Fix.

Certainly, manipulation goes on to some degree.

I don't agree with level 2 trading. As far as I am concerned traders orders and stops should not be available for viewing by others. A decent piece of software can scan stop levels and pinpoint conditions for manipulation.

Ie. if their are a considerable amount of stoploss orders just below a major support level, it doesn't take much to work out how much shorting would be necessary to push the SP down and break support, so triggering the stoplosses and driving the SP down further.

Without doubt this happens, short a share at just above support and buy back when the stops have driven the price down further.

Is this manipulation? I think so, and it shouldn't be allowed!

[loong]

... <snip> The Greatest Nation on Earth™ has not anymore the paramount influence on global economies as it had a decade or two ago. the saying "if the U.S. sneezes the rest of the world will have pneumonia" has to be changed to "if the U.S. sneezes the rest of the world might catch the flue" (not the swine flue!).

Sorry to correct you here Naam but,

a "Flue" is a pipe or vessel that expels hot air and noxious gasses .......

hang on, I apologise

You got it spot on

[zorro1]

Manipulation

The attempt or act to artificially change the price of a security or a market movement with the intent to make a profit. One example is wash selling, in which an investor both sells then quickly re-buys the same security, hoping to create the impression of increased trading volume, and therefore raise the price. Another is churning, in which an investor makes both buy and sell orders through different brokers to create the impression of increased interest in the security and raise the price. Manipulation can be used to both increase and decrease prices, depending on the investor's perceived needs. Manipulation is illegal under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. See also: Antitrust, Fix.

Certainly, manipulation goes on to some degree.

I don't agree with level 2 trading. As far as I am concerned traders orders and stops should not be available for viewing by others. A decent piece of software can scan stop levels and pinpoint conditions for manipulation.

Ie. if their are a considerable amount of stoploss orders just below a major support level, it doesn't take much to work out how much shorting would be necessary to push the SP down and break support, so triggering the stoplosses and driving the SP down further.

Without doubt this happens, short a share at just above support and buy back when the stops have driven the price down further.

Is this manipulation? I think so, and it shouldn't be allowed!

Spot on! but the ASX needs them more then it needs us. Simple as that although some complaints do eventually get "noticed" but usually when its to late and damage already done. An oil stock was sold down by software always 1 share into the buy, everyday. I tried to pull or place a counter share as did many others seconds before close and wham instantly reprogrammed 1c into buy stack. Slowly but surely the price got pushed down. millions traded into sell stack all day and all the good work undone by one extra 1 share every day , capped and bought back cheaper next day and screws the charts. SO SO obvious you feel like marching down to ASX and slapping some one but better to understand we are just free cash for the big boys to play with and trade accordingly.

Level 2 trading a bit like playing poker against a 6 card holder

Edited September 7, 2009 by zorro1

[badge]

Level two shows the order book. My software doesnt denote whether an order is a stop, limit, tranche etc but Id be interested if someone could show software that does.

Theres lots of different ways to execute an order, most of which require some sort of algorithm thesedays, or 'bot'.

If you recognise one, why complain about it?

Theres a particular share I can think of that is bought every day minutes before the close. I could write to my MP about it, instead, id buy it 10 minutes before the close and get out in the auction.

I dont see a problem.

Even in this day and age the amount of arbitrage opportunities that present themselves due to minor inefficiencies and mispricings in financial markets is quite extraordinary to me, theres money to be made if you have the ability to identify them.

Edited September 7, 2009 by badge

[loong]

Level two shows the order book. My software doesnt denote whether an order is a stop, limit, tranche etc but Id be interested if someone could show software that does.

Well, a sell order that is below market price can only be a stoploss or a stopsell order in order to trade a breakout.

Whichever they are, manipulating the market to trigger these sell orders will drive the price down further.

[flying]

Perhaps they should say the Stock Market has had a bounce.

the stock market does not necessarily reflect the situation of a national economy

That is the simple sentence that I should have used Because really that is all I meant to say. It just seems here (USA) none understand that simple sentence. Instead the stock market is the bell weather of the economic recovery.

Edited September 7, 2009 by flying

[Naam]

... <snip> The Greatest Nation on Earth™ has not anymore the paramount influence on global economies as it had a decade or two ago. the saying "if the U.S. sneezes the rest of the world will have pneumonia" has to be changed to "if the U.S. sneezes the rest of the world might catch the flue" (not the swine flue!).

Sorry to correct you here Naam but,

a "Flue" is a pipe or vessel that expels hot air and noxious gasses .......

hang on, I apologise

You got it spot on

sorry not to agree fully with you Loong. "flu" is the abbreviation of the word "influenza" and as a german Klingon i take the liberty to use my own version of abbreviation and always add "e" to "flu"

[badge]

Level two shows the order book. My software doesnt denote whether an order is a stop, limit, tranche etc but Id be interested if someone could show software that does.

Well, a sell order that is below market price can only be a stoploss or a stopsell order in order to trade a breakout.

[...]

Correct.

However, these orders would'nt be shown on my level two, presumably because they are orders your broker has on thier system, not in the cash market.

If you have software, that shows the order book, and shows offer orders, below the 'touch' bid, Id be interested to see that software.

[loong]

Level two shows the order book. My software doesnt denote whether an order is a stop, limit, tranche etc but Id be interested if someone could show software that does.

Well, a sell order that is below market price can only be a stoploss or a stopsell order in order to trade a breakout.

[...]

Correct.

However, these orders would'nt be shown on my level two, presumably because they are orders your broker has on thier system, not in the cash market.

If you have software, that shows the order book, and shows offer orders, below the 'touch' bid, Id be interested to see that software.

So what orders do you see?

When I trade shares, I use TDWaterhouse, they actually state that any stops or limits will stay with them until markets conditions trigger the order. Other brokers can earn a little extra by allowing the wider market to view their clients positions, stops and limits.

[zorro1]

Level two shows the order book. My software doesnt denote whether an order is a stop, limit, tranche etc but Id be interested if someone could show software that does.

Well, a sell order that is below market price can only be a stoploss or a stopsell order in order to trade a breakout.

[...]

Correct.

However, these orders would'nt be shown on my level two, presumably because they are orders your broker has on thier system, not in the cash market.

If you have software, that shows the order book, and shows offer orders, below the 'touch' bid, Id be interested to see that software.

So what orders do you see?

When I trade shares, I use TDWaterhouse, they actually state that any stops or limits will stay with them until markets conditions trigger the order. Other brokers can earn a little extra by allowing the wider market to view their clients positions, stops and limits.

stops are triggered in my case by a stock getting hammered after all its why we use them to prevent huge losses from poor judgment. The conspiracy side would be minuscule in the grand scale Im sure and I wouldn't worry to much about having a transparent stop although placing a stop at close just to be safe is not the way to trade anyhow.. Will gold bust 1000?? apparently when gold rallies along with the rest its a true bull market. Yawnnn looks like another day of gains...

Edited September 8, 2009 by zorro1

[Naam]

Yawnnn looks like another day of gains...

i second that wholeheartedly. day by day goes by with gains. how boring!

[zorro1]

Yawnnn looks like another day of gains...

i second that wholeheartedly. day by day goes by with gains. how boring!

its soooo boring I dont use stops anymore AMAZING day the buying is relentless especially penny stock. Some over 300% last few months and more. This is it, hop on or suppose the bears can watch it go back to 12000, good education for the next GFC in 27 years time

[badge]

So what orders do you see?

When I trade shares, I use TDWaterhouse, they actually state that any stops or limits will stay with them until markets conditions trigger the order. Other brokers can earn a little extra by allowing the wider market to view their clients positions, stops and limits.

The cash market order book.

Im still very interested in seeing the software that shows brokers clients positions.

[badge]

Level two shows the order book. My software doesnt denote whether an order is a stop, limit, tranche etc but Id be interested if someone could show software that does.

[...]

This is the cash market; data from the LSE and the DBI. The NASDAQ also shows the orders stacked, and the market makers. If I took a shot of a smaller co. on the LSE it would show the market maker too. The NYSE currently does'nt offer Level 2.

Whether I get the quote data from LSE, my broker(MF Global), Bloomberg, Reuters or proquote it wont denote whether an order is a limit or a tranche.

Again, Id be very interested in any software that shows brokers client positions or order types? Ive never seen or heard of this before?

[zorro1]

I to have heard that the big boys at the ASX can see your stop loss/ conditional order on the screen (everyones). I guess it wouldn't be hard to see if indeed they had privellaged access to such software. Us punters would never have such access, could you imagine the chaos if you wanted to short?? or a cheaper entry? lets see now 2,million shares stopped at .99c, think i will sell one share and watch the stack collapse...

[badge]

I to have heard that the big boys at the ASX can see your stop loss/ conditional order on the screen (everyones). I guess it wouldn't be hard to see if indeed they had privellaged access to such software. Us punters would never have such access, could you imagine the chaos if you wanted to short?? or a cheaper entry? lets see now 2,million shares stopped at .99c, think i will sell one share and watch the stack collapse...

I dont believe there is such software, hence my great interest to find it.

When you hear of the 'big boys' seeing your stop its because someone at your brokerage has told them(obviously this is at least frowned upon, if not against the law in some places, but prevalent in all places), or its an obvious area e.g around a 'big number', support/resistance etc.

No one has software to determine what order is what to my knowledge. As mooted previously 'stop loss' orders arent on the cash market, your broker works them.

Perhaps thats one less avenue of 'manipulation' explained.

[midas]

Certainly, manipulation goes on to some degree.

I don't agree with level 2 trading. As far as I am concerned traders orders and stops should not be available for viewing by others. A decent piece of software can scan stop levels and pinpoint conditions for manipulation.

Ie. if their are a considerable amount of stoploss orders just below a major support level, it doesn't take much to work out how much shorting would be necessary to push the SP down and break support, so triggering the stoplosses and driving the SP down further.

Without doubt this happens, short a share at just above support and buy back when the stops have driven the price down further.

Is this manipulation? I think so, and it shouldn't be allowed!

This person has described “manipulation ” of the stock market ( and its likely consequences)

far more eloquently than me….

” While true I was a bit early in raising the proposition of a stock market correction the month before, I amended my prediction in June upon realizing the breadth of the manipulation schemes that was occurring in Western stock markets. In today’s markets, only a complete investment novice would try to predict market behavior without accounting for the massive government intervention schemes and forays into stock markets as well as the computerized manipulation of daily trading volume. ”

http://www.theundergroundinvestor.com/2009...-banking-fraud/

[lannarebirth]

I to have heard that the big boys at the ASX can see your stop loss/ conditional order on the screen (everyones). I guess it wouldn't be hard to see if indeed they had privellaged access to such software. Us punters would never have such access, could you imagine the chaos if you wanted to short?? or a cheaper entry? lets see now 2,million shares stopped at .99c, think i will sell one share and watch the stack collapse...

I dont believe there is such software, hence my great interest to find it.

When you hear of the 'big boys' seeing your stop its because someone at your brokerage has told them(obviously this is at least frowned upon, if not against the law in some places, but prevalent in all places), or its an obvious area e.g around a 'big number', support/resistance etc.

No one has software to determine what order is what to my knowledge. As mooted previously 'stop loss' orders arent on the cash market, your broker works them.

Perhaps thats one less avenue of 'manipulation' explained.

The specialist or marketmaker will know but in automated bourses no one would know. That's the way it's supposed to work anyway.

[zorro1]

I to have heard that the big boys at the ASX can see your stop loss/ conditional order on the screen (everyones). I guess it wouldn't be hard to see if indeed they had privellaged access to such software. Us punters would never have such access, could you imagine the chaos if you wanted to short?? or a cheaper entry? lets see now 2,million shares stopped at .99c, think i will sell one share and watch the stack collapse...

I dont believe there is such software, hence my great interest to find it.

When you hear of the 'big boys' seeing your stop its because someone at your brokerage has told them(obviously this is at least frowned upon, if not against the law in some places, but prevalent in all places), or its an obvious area e.g around a 'big number', support/resistance etc.

No one has software to determine what order is what to my knowledge. As mooted previously 'stop loss' orders arent on the cash market, your broker works them.

Perhaps thats one less avenue of 'manipulation' explained.

yep thats probably the non conspiracy theory and makes total sense when testing resistance/ support. A`quick sweep at close would do it and I imagine this was a common practice in the crash. Although I have watched the testing in live trading over the last year where it was common practise to nudge the buy stack frequently looking for weakness. The astounding part is it hardly ever happens now, either buyers are confident being the new wave of bulls so they tend not to stop with the nervous nellies, very rarely theses days is there a "feeler" sent out even at critical levels. This also suggests that shorting is less frequent and day traders now want the market to meet them, in fact im totally convinced of it

[zorro1]

Certainly, manipulation goes on to some degree.

I don't agree with level 2 trading. As far as I am concerned traders orders and stops should not be available for viewing by others. A decent piece of software can scan stop levels and pinpoint conditions for manipulation.

Ie. if their are a considerable amount of stoploss orders just below a major support level, it doesn't take much to work out how much shorting would be necessary to push the SP down and break support, so triggering the stoplosses and driving the SP down further.

Without doubt this happens, short a share at just above support and buy back when the stops have driven the price down further.

Is this manipulation? I think so, and it shouldn't be allowed!

This person has described "manipulation " of the stock market ( and its likely consequences)

far more eloquently than me….

" While true I was a bit early in raising the proposition of a stock market correction the month before, I amended my prediction in June upon realizing the breadth of the manipulation schemes that was occurring in Western stock markets. In today's markets, only a complete investment novice would try to predict market behavior without accounting for the massive government intervention schemes and forays into stock markets as well as the computerized manipulation of daily trading volume. "

http://www.theundergroundinvestor.com/2009...-banking-fraud/

Midas look at the futures right now Up 34 green, another day of gains coming up. Be careful of what the bears are saying now they want you to sell why? because they are buying. The good news is that the good news is now being played out in all the local rags worldwide.

I dont like cut n paste but this is a leading market rag.

http://www.thebull.com.au/articles_detail.php?id=5888

Consumer sentiment 'at two-year high'

Point being sentiment will win in the end. You cannot fight sentiment and who wants to read 10,000 confusing Analyst reports and who really cares when the general public dont care and dont understand, most investors work for a living and just want a better return than the banks. They just want to buy at the bottom , which is now long gone. The bottom was around november but we all know only fool trys to pick the top or bottom and waiting for a trend reverasals is a better bet than catching falling knives (for some) The trend has truly reversed yet still even when all the charts showed bullish buy signals even 4 months back most still sit and wait. For what? and how will they know when to buy if we drop back to November levels. Same thing would happen, most will sit there crying chicken little when and if the next "false breakout" starts again. Seems like a whole lot of hard work to me. My rant finished

Edited September 9, 2009 by zorro1

[Abrak]

Level two shows the order book. My software doesnt denote whether an order is a stop, limit, tranche etc but Id be interested if someone could show software that does.

[...]

This is the cash market; data from the LSE and the DBI. The NASDAQ also shows the orders stacked, and the market makers. If I took a shot of a smaller co. on the LSE it would show the market maker too. The NYSE currently does'nt offer Level 2.

Whether I get the quote data from LSE, my broker(MF Global), Bloomberg, Reuters or proquote it wont denote whether an order is a limit or a tranche.

Again, Id be very interested in any software that shows brokers client positions or order types? Ive never seen or heard of this before?

Badge,

I think you are basically correct. The broker works the order. If you looked at a brokers screen it would seem to be very much the same as yours although in Thailand it would also show the market maker that placed the order.

Things might have changed over the last 5 years so I maybe wrong. I just think you are looking for something that doesnt exist.

[badge]

yep thats probably the non conspiracy theory and makes total sense when testing resistance/ support. A`quick sweep at close would do it and I imagine this was a common practice in the crash. Although I have watched the testing in live trading over the last year where it was common practise to nudge the buy stack frequently looking for weakness. The astounding part is it hardly ever happens now, either buyers are confident being the new wave of bulls so they tend not to stop with the nervous nellies, very rarely theses days is there a "feeler" sent out even at critical levels. This also suggests that shorting is less frequent and day traders now want the market to meet them, in fact im totally convinced of it

Indeed. Most of the 'testing' I suspect you refer to is performed by algorithms; its computers fighting each other with marginally differing code. The reason its less widespread now is theres simply less volume, so the computers have been turned down a notch. Thats what I attribute it to anyhow.

edit: My focus is on the FTSE, and volume is a shade of what it was 2years ago, it really is a problem. Whereas in the past I could draw the computers up or down few pence and then hit their orders, now they dont put enough volume out to swipe at; as much as I try to provide liquidity theres only so much I can do

Edited September 9, 2009 by badge