Flooding.

[jasreeve17]

Pretty much as the title says really.

I returned home around 4pm yesterday, and for 1km, or so, around my condo the water, or rather the raw sewage mixed with rain water, was over 2 feet deep.

Wading at thigh level through stinking scum I wondered how much worse the flooding will become? In the last 8 years I've lived in 4 or 5 different location in Bangkok, all of which suffered from flooding, but never as bad as now.

I've been told that Bangkok is basically built on a swamp, and with rising sea levels it's now saturated. Never mind the poor planning, inadequate sewage systems, lack of thought and investment... Will Bkk literallly be under water (we're not talkng pleasant coral seas or fresh rain water here -we're talking reeking, disease laden scum...) within the next few years.

I wish I could sell my condo and get out of Bkk - not easy in this economic climate and when nobody buys second-hand condos here anyway. People buying new condos in Bkk must be insane cause surely the investment is worthless when it's underwater...

Maybe I'm over-reacting, but it's not as if this was a one off - it has been getting worse and worse for years with only one end in sight. I'd be interested in other people's thoughts.

[barky]

The flooding in Bkk is becoming increasingly troublesome.

The disruptions that the constant flooding brings are extremely costly to individuals and business.

This is a problem that the goverment needs to tackle.

However, I think due to the short term thinking of the pollies, and the main aim of feathering their nests first, means that issues like flooding come way down on the to-do list.

In other words, i can't see it ever being fixed.

[jasreeve17]

The flooding in Bkk is becoming increasingly troublesome.

The disruptions that the constant flooding brings are extremely costly to individuals and business.

This is a problem that the goverment needs to tackle.

However, I think due to the short term thinking of the pollies, and the main aim of feathering their nests first, means that issues like flooding come way down on the to-do list.

In other words, i can't see it ever being fixed.

Okay, so let's consider it two ways:

1) 'They' 'fix it'. Like a Thames barrier type solution (I can't see how that'd work here) or the very recent KL dual purpose tunnel. We probably agree that it's unlikely, but a big big spend project like the KL flood / traffic tunnel must have got the politicians here thinking $$$.

2) Do nothing. In which case will Bkk be under water soon?

[Xangsamhua]

It might depend on the District authorities. Where we are the soi used to flood badly, but the local district office has done of lot of draining and we've had no flooding here for six or seven years. (Perhaps the fact that a person of influence lives in the same soi might have a bearing.)

[Theyreallrubbish]

He flooding is much better than it used to be in the 1990s when you'd have huge areas thigh deep for days at a time every year.

They've really done a good job in my opinion.

OK, it occasionally gets overwhelmed, but that's not surprising given the environment

[jasreeve17]

It might depend on the District authorities. Where we are the soi used to flood badly, but the local district office has done of lot of draining and we've had no flooding here for six or seven years. (Perhaps the fact that a person of influence lives in the same soi might have a bearing.)

That's a good point.

And it makes me wonder why this isn't normal practise across all areas / districts. I'll certainly look into in my area; although I'm not a person of an influence, even in my own household.

But, is it really this simply - maintenance of the existing drainage system? Or, is the water level rising year after year to the point that it's soon to be untenable?

[Xangsamhua]

It might depend on the District authorities. Where we are the soi used to flood badly, but the local district office has done of lot of draining and we've had no flooding here for six or seven years. (Perhaps the fact that a person of influence lives in the same soi might have a bearing.)

That's a good point.

And it makes me wonder why this isn't normal practise across all areas / districts. I'll certainly look into in my area; although I'm not a person of an influence, even in my own household.

But, is it really this simply - maintenance of the existing drainage system? Or, is the water level rising year after year to the point that it's soon to be untenable?

Not looking too good!

Bangkok will perish if the waters from the greenhouse effect rise 20 cm. A large part of the Thai capital will turn into a lake, stopping traffic and shutting down much of the nation’s infrastructure. A rise of 1.4 m would inundate Thailand’s rich rice belt along the fertile shores of the Gulf of Thailand.

Thailand was named, along with Indonesia – particularly Java, Pakistan, Bangladesh and several African countries, including Egypt and Senegal, as one of the ten countries most vulnerable to the greenhouse effect, according to a special report published by the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP).

http://www.journal.au.edu/au_techno/2002/a...02/article3.pdf

[jasreeve17]

Thanks Xangsamhua - a very interesting article, produced locally too.

I've seen the work taking place at the sides of the river (basically hammering metal pylons into the ground), and that's one problem area; high tide problems. The work along Suk, and other pumping stations are solving their localized flooding problems.

But, these solitions won't help my local flooding or the flooding in 90% of Bkk. The idea of huge tunnels to massively drain water away (akin to KL), and improving the sewage / drainage across Bkk are important, though it looks as though the the usual politics are in place to hinder many projects; each new government cancelling the last and setting up their own...

Still, some activity is better than none...

[thaihome]

As is so often the case here, people make uninformed comments based on their biased anecdotal evidence. In fact, Bangkok has an extensive flood control system that is being continually improved. The authorities readily admit that some areas are still prone to floods but overall things are much better then they have ever been, despite the continued urban growth.

TH

Flood Protection in Bangkok

[on-on]

Yeah, considering the elevation, the terrain and the amount of rainfall it's really amazing. I grew up around Houston, which could stand in for Bangkok in all these areas and if you google Houston flood on Google Image Search you'll see pictures of the US' fourth largest city under up to 20' of water in 2001 (and various other floods) - of course we have hurricanes. Flat coastal cities in rainy areas flood all the time and the fact that this hugely paved-over flat area isn't standing in water most of the time really is a marvel of civil engineering. hel_l, they have a subway here - that's considered impossible in Houston because of flooding issues, but here they put in flood gates and built the dam_n thing. This city is a ramshackle planning disaster in many ways, but the amount of functionality it achieves really is amazing given the economic and political realities of the environment.

[jasreeve17]

As is so often the case here, people make uninformed comments based on their biased anecdotal evidence. In fact, Bangkok has an extensive flood control system that is being continually improved. The authorities readily admit that some areas are still prone to floods but overall things are much better then they have ever been, despite the continued urban growth.

TH

Flood Protection in Bangkok

Well thanks for your comments - rude and aggressive as is your norm...

...I suppose it's just your uninformed comments based on your biased anecdotal evidence. Or, maybe you're one of those people who doesn't believe that sea levels are rising. Or, maybe you are one of those who lives in an area of Bkk that doesn't flood (you'd be in the minority). Or, maybe your glass is always half full (even when you're dying of thirst...)

I've lived in many areas of Bkk, and the flooding is getting worse in my opinion; many of my friends agree with me, as do local and global reports on the issue.

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration says that Bangkok is slowly sinking, but thaihome knows better...

Regardless of these points, my initial post posed a question based on my experience, sorry if that pains you so...

On-on, we're talking about Bkk not Houston, both are unique with their own unique set of problems, on different sides of the world with different factors affecting them. On the surface they may appear similar in some ways - the actuality, I'd suggest, is very different.

Edited September 27, 2009 by jasreeve17

[Scott]

No, I have to disagree with you jaz. I've been here for many years and flooding is less of a problem over all. Some areas may have more problems, but overall it's better. The one things that they did that seem to make it better is to keep the streets clean. There used to be plastic bags clogging the drains and that was a huge problem about 15 years ago.

The city has a ways to go, though.

[jasreeve17]

Maybe I've just been unlucky with the area I'm in now - Thonburi seems to have become increasingly worse - maybe like Xangsamhua stated I'm unlucky to be in an area where the maintenance is poor (or non-existent).

But, Scott, is sea-level rising or not? I thought studies were saying that sea-level is rising and Thailand (Bkk) is one of the countries most in danger.

My feeling is that Bkk is bitty, some areas as you say are improving, but far from all. Have a look at the .PDF posted earlier. Lines like:

Bangkok is slowly sinking.

Existing sewers have already reached their capacity hence the need to look for new drainage.

The report shows that plenty is being done and has been done already (which is good), but wading thigh high through scum filled streets isn't my imagination, it was real and it was dam_n horrible. Every year we flood. In the eight years I've lived in Bkk it always floods, but I've never waded through scum at thigh level before - maybe I'm shrinking.

I hope I'm wrong and my local sewers just need cleaning out - job done...

Edited September 27, 2009 by jasreeve17

[stevehaigh]

from http://www.pri.org/theworld/?q=node/14907

'Bangkok is a city built on swampland. Because of the spongy under soil and the ongoing pumping of groundwater, scientists estimate that Bangkok is sinking roughly four inches every year. '

buy beach front land in Korat now before its all gone

[spysee]

It was great, I had a pool in my backyard

[villagefarang]

No, I have to disagree with you jaz. I've been here for many years and flooding is less of a problem over all. Some areas may have more problems, but overall it's better. The one things that they did that seem to make it better is to keep the streets clean. There used to be plastic bags clogging the drains and that was a huge problem about 15 years ago.

The city has a ways to go, though.

I have to agree with you on this one.

The OP should have seen some of the floods of the past. Since the OP prefers anecdotal evidence, the inner city got better when they started pumping the water to the outlying areas. Of course it made it worse for the people living there.

Oh, and I sold my 10 year old second-hand condo for a profit and moved to Chiang Rai after 30+ years in Bangkok. Life is just harder for some people I guess.

[t.s]

water is funny old thing, for my soi to get better (which it has), somebody somewhere is worse off.

bandaids and quick fixes just hurt somebody else down the line.

[bkkjames]

whilst inconvenient for sure, perhaps a little perspective might take the some shine from your mouldy shoes - in parts of Africa / Australia and so on, they wish they had our problem.

Edited September 28, 2009 by bkkjames

[spysee]

I love heavy rain and small floods, I lived in Australia and we would get F all. Always on water restrictions in the day due to our dams being below 40% full.

[jasreeve17]

whilst inconvenient for sure, perhaps a little perspective might take the some shine from your mouldy shoes - in parts of Africa / Australia and so on, they wish they had our problem.

What???

You can throw in a line like this for every thread on the board then close them down...

Whilst the murder rate in Thailand is high, let's keep some perspective; consider Brazil...

Whilst the rate of carying guns is high, let's keep some perspective; consider the USA...

Whilst the rates of HIV are high, let's keep some perspective; consider South Africa...

[bkkjames]

whilst inconvenient for sure, perhaps a little perspective might take the some shine from your mouldy shoes - in parts of Africa / Australia and so on, they wish they had our problem.

What???

You can throw in a line like this for every thread on the board then close them down...

Whilst the murder rate in Thailand is high, let's keep some perspective; consider Brazil...

Whilst the rate of carying guns is high, let's keep some perspective; consider the USA...

Whilst the rates of HIV are high, let's keep some perspective; consider South Africa...

Well Jas, I appreciate your right to moan about flooding but unless you just arrived last week, one would think that seasonal heavy rain and associated flooding is not a new phenom in Bangkok. Guessing it went on for centuries before the 'Global Warming and Climate Change' became the blame for everything weather related.

Anyways, feel free to carry on writing about it until it rains again tonight. Don't worry though, Nov, Dec and Jan are coming and with it the not so rainy days.

[jasreeve17]

No, I have to disagree with you jaz. I've been here for many years and flooding is less of a problem over all. Some areas may have more problems, but overall it's better. The one things that they did that seem to make it better is to keep the streets clean. There used to be plastic bags clogging the drains and that was a huge problem about 15 years ago.

The city has a ways to go, though.

I have to agree with you on this one.

The OP should have seen some of the floods of the past. Since the OP prefers anecdotal evidence, the inner city got better when they started pumping the water to the outlying areas. Of course it made it worse for the people living there.

Oh, and I sold my 10 year old second-hand condo for a profit and moved to Chiang Rai after 30+ years in Bangkok. Life is just harder for some people I guess.

Less of the cheap slight thanks... the OP prefers anecdotal evidence... Actually the original post was just an open question, whereafter I used the research paper that Xangsamhua posted along with some opinion and personal experience - you know like folk do on an informal forum.

You said the city got better when they started to pump the water to outlying areas (of the same city...) - making it worse for people living there. So, the city didn't get better then, the problem was moved from city centre to city outskirts... Rather a silly comment on your part.

Your second comment is again silly and insulting for no obvious reason. It is very tough to sell second hand condos in Bkk for Thais and foreigners alike, that's a fact. No need for your silly insult added to the end.

[jasreeve17]

BkkJames, I do like to moan; it's from my father's side, and I had an awful weekend... My glass does tend to be less than half full, I agree, it's a bad habit I need to work on... (along with too many... ...)

I accept that Bkk has always flooded (and indeed I've stated the same). I just hate my soi three feet (it might become 4 feet if this thread drags onto another page )

On the climate change front I'm surprised that the majority on this board don't seem to believe in this 'theory' - I thought it was commonly agreed, but seemingly not so.

I need to move, that's what I need to do, and now is a perfect time to check out the flood free areas and move in. In a few months I can start complaining about the water shortage, inhuman(e) heat and other stuff too.

Edited September 28, 2009 by jasreeve17

[bkkjames]

BkkJames, I do like to moan; it's from my father's side, and I had an awful weekend... My glass does tend to be less than half full, I agree, it's a bad habit I need to work on... (along with too many... ...)

I accept that Bkk has always flooded (and indeed I've stated the same). I just hate my soi three feet (it might become 4 feet if this thread drags onto another page )

On the climate change front I'm surprised that the majority on this board don't seem to believe in this 'theory' - I thought it was commonly agreed, but seemingly not so.

I need to move, that's what I need to do, and now is a perfect time to check out the flood free areas and move in. In a few months I can start complaining about the water shortage, inhuman(e) heat and other stuff too.

Ok, i will admit the rain has been unusually heavy and it takes a bit longer for the soi flooding to subside but just a few months ago we were talking about the below here....which makes it all seem a bit seasonal. Sept is our wettest month.

Thailand Govt. Hopeful Of Containing The Ongoing Drought

By news desk on March 17,2009

Various Thai government agencies held a meeting in order to find ways to tackle a potential drought during the summer season as water levels in reservoirs throughout Thailand have dropped and as many as 46 provinces are expected to face water shortages.

Out of the total 46 provinces, eight in the north and northeastern regions are already facing critical water shortages.

Participants at the meeting, chaired by Deputy Prime Minister retired Maj. Gen. Sanan Kajornprasart, were told that as of last Saturday, water stored in medium- and large-sized reservoirs are at about 66 per cent of total capacity, three per cent less than at the same time last year.

[on-on]

On-on, we're talking about Bkk not Houston, both are unique with their own unique set of problems, on different sides of the world with different factors affecting them. On the surface they may appear similar in some ways - the actuality, I'd suggest, is very different.

Of course you're right that they're not the same, but they have much more in common than you probably realize. They're roughly equidistant from the sea, they're both right around sea level, they're both built on top of swamps, they both have large inlets that come up into the city and a network of khlongs/bayous, they both have about 55 inches of average rainfall annually, the list goes on and on. In any case I have lived in both and I recognize what's going on here from home and it's really quite miraculous how little severe flooding there is, as I mentioned. Since I've been here 3-4 years ago I've been in shin deep water once around 2007, but since then the worst I've personally had to deal with is ankle deep on some sub-sois (though I have seen it get that bad somewhat regularly). There's only so much you can do when you get seasonal downpours over a giant flat place built on top of a swamp and when you add to that what can be expected of civil engineering here in Thailand, well, like I said, it's amazing how bad the flooding isn't. hel_l, I had to spend a lot of time in Manila last year, now that's some messed up flooding.

EDIT: The other side of the river is much newer to heavy development and I have seen pretty bad flooding just over on the Nonthaburi side, but I've lived through development of flood prone areas and this is what happens. Things get worse as development ensues because no one thinks ahead about flood control. New development displaces waterways and covers land in concrete that can't soak up rainfall. Developers don't care because flooding is an economic externality (convenient). More rainfall floods into lower lying areas including streets and such. Residents complain endlessly. Something is finally done. Things start to get better. Bangkok on the East side of the river has been through this forever I'd imagine - and probably on the densely populated parts of the West side too, but most of the other side of the river is full of brand new mu baans and shopping centers and highways that have all gone up in the last 10 years covering over banana plantations and khlongs and what not. It's gonna be hel_l over there for a while.

Edited September 28, 2009 by on-on

[villagefarang]

No, I have to disagree with you jaz. I've been here for many years and flooding is less of a problem over all. Some areas may have more problems, but overall it's better. The one things that they did that seem to make it better is to keep the streets clean. There used to be plastic bags clogging the drains and that was a huge problem about 15 years ago.

The city has a ways to go, though.

I have to agree with you on this one.

The OP should have seen some of the floods of the past. Since the OP prefers anecdotal evidence, the inner city got better when they started pumping the water to the outlying areas. Of course it made it worse for the people living there.

Oh, and I sold my 10 year old second-hand condo for a profit and moved to Chiang Rai after 30+ years in Bangkok. Life is just harder for some people I guess.

Less of the cheap slight thanks... the OP prefers anecdotal evidence... Actually the original post was just an open question, whereafter I used the research paper that Xangsamhua posted along with some opinion and personal experience - you know like folk do on an informal forum.

You said the city got better when they started to pump the water to outlying areas (of the same city...) - making it worse for people living there. So, the city didn't get better then, the problem was moved from city centre to city outskirts... Rather a silly comment on your part.

Your second comment is again silly and insulting for no obvious reason. It is very tough to sell second hand condos in Bkk for Thais and foreigners alike, that's a fact. No need for your silly insult added to the end.

Oh come on it is fun to mess with guys like you. Just like a little windup toy and ever so easy to windup.

You would be appalled at how easy it was to sell our condo. Manager kept nagging so drove down from the Rai to BKK. The guy took one look at our place and next day cut a check. Wife and I walked down to Paragon to put it in the bank and went to dinner. Just sat there looking at each other like, did that really just happen. No negotiations either. I told them what I wanted net and the guy paid for everything else. Easy peasy. Packed up the rest of our stuff into the truck and enjoyed a pleasant drive back to our house in the field. Guess it depends on which condo you buy in the first place.

[bkkjames]

No, I have to disagree with you jaz. I've been here for many years and flooding is less of a problem over all. Some areas may have more problems, but overall it's better. The one things that they did that seem to make it better is to keep the streets clean. There used to be plastic bags clogging the drains and that was a huge problem about 15 years ago.

The city has a ways to go, though.

I have to agree with you on this one.

The OP should have seen some of the floods of the past. Since the OP prefers anecdotal evidence, the inner city got better when they started pumping the water to the outlying areas. Of course it made it worse for the people living there.

Oh, and I sold my 10 year old second-hand condo for a profit and moved to Chiang Rai after 30+ years in Bangkok. Life is just harder for some people I guess.

Less of the cheap slight thanks... the OP prefers anecdotal evidence... Actually the original post was just an open question, whereafter I used the research paper that Xangsamhua posted along with some opinion and personal experience - you know like folk do on an informal forum.

You said the city got better when they started to pump the water to outlying areas (of the same city...) - making it worse for people living there. So, the city didn't get better then, the problem was moved from city centre to city outskirts... Rather a silly comment on your part.

Your second comment is again silly and insulting for no obvious reason. It is very tough to sell second hand condos in Bkk for Thais and foreigners alike, that's a fact. No need for your silly insult added to the end.

Oh come on it is fun to mess with guys like you. Just like a little windup toy and ever so easy to windup.

You would be appalled at how easy it was to sell our condo. Manager kept nagging so drove down from the Rai to BKK. The guy took one look at our place and next day cut a check. Wife and I walked down to Paragon to put it in the bank and went to dinner. Just sat there looking at each other like, did that really just happen. No negotiations either. I told them what I wanted net and the guy paid for everything else. Easy peasy. Packed up the rest of our stuff into the truck and enjoyed a pleasant drive back to our house in the field. Guess it depends on which condo you buy in the first place.

Did the guy take over the payments or something? jk

[villagefarang]

Did the guy take over the payments or something? jk

I paid cash. He paid cash. Full price no payments.

[bkkjames]

Did the guy take over the payments or something? jk

I paid cash. He paid cash. Full price no payments.

A minute ago it was a cheque. Now it's cash. What's next, barter on chickens?

[villagefarang]

Did the guy take over the payments or something? jk

I paid cash. He paid cash. Full price no payments.

A minute ago it was a cheque. Now it's cash. What's next, barter on chickens?

Cashiers check to be exact. Anything else I can do for you, Your Wiseness?

Edited September 28, 2009 by villagefarang